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Before we just go around unilaterally deleting articles, why don't we have a discussion about it? Given the fact that this man is the main organizer of a rally that the media has been talking about non-stop for the entire week, I think it is notable, he has a questionable past. I was originally going to include this in the Unite the right page, but there was an objection which made sense to me since the article is long enough already-- Rusf10 ( talk) 04:41, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not news, or an indiscriminate collection of information. Being in the news does not in itself mean that someone should be the subject of a Wikipedia article. We should generally avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is met:
The significance of an event or individual is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources. It is important for editors to understand two clear differentiations of the People notable for only one event guideline (WP:BIO1E) when compared with this policy (WP:BLP1E): WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people, or those who have recently died, and to biographies of low-profile individuals. In addition, some subject specific notability guidelines such as Wikipedia:Notability (sports) provide criteria that may support the notability of certain individuals who are known chiefly for one event.
The Southern Poverty Law Center which is actually a left-wing group was the first to report that Kessler previously supported left-wing causes and Obama. That's the the article I already linked.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 05:35, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
This is regarding this and this revert.
I do not see any benefit to using full-paragraph quotes for one or two sentences. The point of an encyclopedia article is to summarize sources, and nothing in these quotes seems ambiguous enough to need this level of detail. Kessler's claims about white genocide can be more fully explained in white genocide conspiracy theory, so using his own words in place of the wikilink provides a longer platform for him to speak, but provides less context and fewer resources for readers.
It's also idiosyncratic enough to be a distraction. Articles typically do not use this formatting style for very short quotes, because it breaks the flow of the article every time a quote is included. There is nothing wrong with including a quote as part of a longer paragraph. If this content were contentious enough to need quotes (which I don't really see) we should be able to explain why, which would probably mean more than just a direct quote anyway. Grayfell ( talk) 03:07, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
I don't believe that they are needed; pls see diff. K.e.coffman ( talk) 03:16, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
See WP:BLPN#Jason Kessler. Doug Weller talk 12:25, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
New information about Jason Kesler surfaced in August 2017. According to the reporter who published this newspaper article many of his old friends say Jason Kesler was, up until 2016, a staunch left wing activist and an Obama supporter who participated in Occupy Wallstreet. If this is true then his new Unite the Right movement is a radical departure from his past, so radical that it seems a little fishy especially when so many of his old friends recall how strong he was about his left wing beliefs. One explanation given is that Jason became disillusioned with the left, partly because he was not liked by the Occupy Wallstreet crowd. Another possibility is that Jason Kesler is actually still a left wing activist, but this time in disguise, inciting Unite the Right in order to create a backlash against President Trump, by political association. If this is true one would have to also conclude that he is not very effective especially given that he could only muster 21 recruits to his most recent rally in August 2018. Wikipedia does not claim to know the whole truth about Jason Kesler, but provides all sides to the story so the reader can decide for themselves what they want to believe about Jason Kesler's radical behavior. Chris ( talk) 08:27, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
The opening paragraph about Kessler identifies him has a white supremacist and a neonazi. However, the linked references do not in any way establish this (other than possibly reference 6 which is behind a paywall and I did not review). The referenced media links do describe him using these terms (except for reference 1 which describes him as a white nationalist, a distinct category from white supremacist) but not specifically citing any evidence for these labels. Finding some media reference that happens to use the title does not establish credible evidence about a person’s ideology. At best it is evidence that there may be a common perception of the person holding these ideologies.
Kessler in interviews denies holding white nationalist, white supremacist, or neo-Nazi ideologies. While not specifically in the descriptor, I could easily find evidence that Kessler is a racist, and that he associates with white nationalists, white supremacists, and neo-Nazis. But words matter and simply assigning these views to him is sloppy work and not justifiable.
My edit retained the relevant fact that Kessler associates with white supremacists and neo-Nazis. I simply omitted the unsubstantiated claim that these were his own ideologies. The edit was reverted with the justification that my views were not relevant. I submit that accuracy is relevant and that the paragraph as it stands now is not accurate and is sloppily documented. It needs to be revised to maintain the integrity of the article. Ignatios2000 ( talk) 18:06, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
The main photo caption strikes me as seriously WP:UNDUE in referencing the MAGA hat. It looks like an attempt to link this individual to Donald Trump. The photo might be kosher, but I don't think the caption is. I'm INVOLVED as an admin having just protected the page so I can't remove it. But I really think the MAGA reference needs to go. I am not seeing anything in the article linking this individual with Trump. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:52, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 17 August 2017. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about
living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
Before we just go around unilaterally deleting articles, why don't we have a discussion about it? Given the fact that this man is the main organizer of a rally that the media has been talking about non-stop for the entire week, I think it is notable, he has a questionable past. I was originally going to include this in the Unite the right page, but there was an objection which made sense to me since the article is long enough already-- Rusf10 ( talk) 04:41, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not news, or an indiscriminate collection of information. Being in the news does not in itself mean that someone should be the subject of a Wikipedia article. We should generally avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is met:
The significance of an event or individual is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources. It is important for editors to understand two clear differentiations of the People notable for only one event guideline (WP:BIO1E) when compared with this policy (WP:BLP1E): WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people, or those who have recently died, and to biographies of low-profile individuals. In addition, some subject specific notability guidelines such as Wikipedia:Notability (sports) provide criteria that may support the notability of certain individuals who are known chiefly for one event.
The Southern Poverty Law Center which is actually a left-wing group was the first to report that Kessler previously supported left-wing causes and Obama. That's the the article I already linked.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 05:35, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
This is regarding this and this revert.
I do not see any benefit to using full-paragraph quotes for one or two sentences. The point of an encyclopedia article is to summarize sources, and nothing in these quotes seems ambiguous enough to need this level of detail. Kessler's claims about white genocide can be more fully explained in white genocide conspiracy theory, so using his own words in place of the wikilink provides a longer platform for him to speak, but provides less context and fewer resources for readers.
It's also idiosyncratic enough to be a distraction. Articles typically do not use this formatting style for very short quotes, because it breaks the flow of the article every time a quote is included. There is nothing wrong with including a quote as part of a longer paragraph. If this content were contentious enough to need quotes (which I don't really see) we should be able to explain why, which would probably mean more than just a direct quote anyway. Grayfell ( talk) 03:07, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
I don't believe that they are needed; pls see diff. K.e.coffman ( talk) 03:16, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
See WP:BLPN#Jason Kessler. Doug Weller talk 12:25, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
New information about Jason Kesler surfaced in August 2017. According to the reporter who published this newspaper article many of his old friends say Jason Kesler was, up until 2016, a staunch left wing activist and an Obama supporter who participated in Occupy Wallstreet. If this is true then his new Unite the Right movement is a radical departure from his past, so radical that it seems a little fishy especially when so many of his old friends recall how strong he was about his left wing beliefs. One explanation given is that Jason became disillusioned with the left, partly because he was not liked by the Occupy Wallstreet crowd. Another possibility is that Jason Kesler is actually still a left wing activist, but this time in disguise, inciting Unite the Right in order to create a backlash against President Trump, by political association. If this is true one would have to also conclude that he is not very effective especially given that he could only muster 21 recruits to his most recent rally in August 2018. Wikipedia does not claim to know the whole truth about Jason Kesler, but provides all sides to the story so the reader can decide for themselves what they want to believe about Jason Kesler's radical behavior. Chris ( talk) 08:27, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
The opening paragraph about Kessler identifies him has a white supremacist and a neonazi. However, the linked references do not in any way establish this (other than possibly reference 6 which is behind a paywall and I did not review). The referenced media links do describe him using these terms (except for reference 1 which describes him as a white nationalist, a distinct category from white supremacist) but not specifically citing any evidence for these labels. Finding some media reference that happens to use the title does not establish credible evidence about a person’s ideology. At best it is evidence that there may be a common perception of the person holding these ideologies.
Kessler in interviews denies holding white nationalist, white supremacist, or neo-Nazi ideologies. While not specifically in the descriptor, I could easily find evidence that Kessler is a racist, and that he associates with white nationalists, white supremacists, and neo-Nazis. But words matter and simply assigning these views to him is sloppy work and not justifiable.
My edit retained the relevant fact that Kessler associates with white supremacists and neo-Nazis. I simply omitted the unsubstantiated claim that these were his own ideologies. The edit was reverted with the justification that my views were not relevant. I submit that accuracy is relevant and that the paragraph as it stands now is not accurate and is sloppily documented. It needs to be revised to maintain the integrity of the article. Ignatios2000 ( talk) 18:06, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
The main photo caption strikes me as seriously WP:UNDUE in referencing the MAGA hat. It looks like an attempt to link this individual to Donald Trump. The photo might be kosher, but I don't think the caption is. I'm INVOLVED as an admin having just protected the page so I can't remove it. But I really think the MAGA reference needs to go. I am not seeing anything in the article linking this individual with Trump. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:52, 14 April 2020 (UTC)