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Janet Mock article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2022 and 6 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Campcrystallake1935, Shannonmullaley ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Mlproffitt, Virginia.Marshall, Glazejasmyn, Keelimancino, Eavinson3.
Learning to edit to fix the mistake about #girlslikeus being created for women of color, as Janet's blog specifically says that it was intended to bring together trans-women of all backgrounds here. If I do anything wrong I'm hoping someone will fix it. This is my first Wikipedia edit ever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.7.29.36 ( talk) 15:59, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
One of the cite articles said she has a Native Hawaiian mother and African-American father. Therefore, I added her to the category LGBT African Americans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.246.5 ( talk) 03:01, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Hey, I move that Janet Mock's male-assigned birth name be removed from the article. Disclosing the birth-assigned names of transgender persons (or "deadnaming") serves no educational or research purpose for the general Wikipedia user, and does little more than delegitimize the identities and intrude upon the privacy of transgender persons. Wikipedia's WP: Gender Identity advises on the issue of legal/birth names: "Legal names have little to no relevance to our naming policy. Nor is the state a neutral arbiter of these matters. If there is a difference between a person's gender expression and the gender assigned to them by the state, basic respect requires us to side with the individual. The status of transgender rights, for instance changing one's sex on a birth certificate, varies widely by jurisdiction. We also should avoid saying an article should be a particular way because of a basic opposition to the notion of changing one's public gender presentation." In fact, since Janet Mock is Mock's legal name, there is no need to use her birth name in this article at all. Pinko1977 ( talk) 22:30, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
Her website says she is an advocate but doesn't mention activist. Is there a difference? Should it match? -- DHeyward ( talk) 08:21, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
It's my understanding that "trans woman" is a broad term for persons that were assigned a non-female gender at birth but identify as female. A "transexual woman" is for persons that were assigned a non-female gender at birth and have started and/or completed a physical transformation to realign their physical bodies to their gender identity. Her original interview identifies her as a "transexual woman" and post-SRS (with hormones starting at 15 from a friend). The reason I ask is that some transexual women are offended to be lumped in with trans women that have not undergone any type of transition (i.e. those identifying as "Harry Benjamin Syndrome" are more likely to distinguish their "transexual" experience from what they label as cross-dressers or transvestites and the broader "trans" umbrella) and are adamant that they be addressed as a "woman" or "transexual woman" but not the broader category of "trans woman" as they don't identify with the broader categories. I thought it would be least offensive to use "transexual woman" for someone that is post-SRS but may be offensive to some to use "trans woman" (and not just for the subject, but others that have gone through the same physical transformation). In other words, this subject may not have a preference given her interviews and advocacy, the larger trans community probably wouldn't have an issue with "transexual woman" but a smaller post-SRS subset has an issue with "trans woman." Too nuanced? -- DHeyward ( talk) 00:35, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Neither of the sources use the term "misgendered" (one does, but in the magazine "namespace", not the article). When talking about the concept using the term is okay, but to use it as a verb in writing should be avoided per MOS:NEO, especially when the sources don't use the term.— Godsy( TALK CONT) 20:00, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Response to third opinion request: |
Whether misgendering can truly be defined as a neologism is debatable; at any rate, I think it is suitable for it to not be considered original research. There are better sources for the term at Transphobia#Misgendering and exclusion; some (if not all) of said sources should be added to this article. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 03:34, 21 June 2015 (UTC) |
The article needs more sources. I have added some inline tags. SunCrow ( talk) 00:17, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
@ Rab V: This source was added to the article and is based on an interview with Janet Mock where she says:
“ | I was once a big dreamer who happened to be born a boy named Charles. I hope my story resonates with other big dreamers, lets them know that no matter how huge, how insane, how unreasonable or unreachable your goals may seem, nothing — not even your own body — can hold you back if you are certain and fearless and, yes, even a little ballsy in your quest. | ” |
She specifically stated her birth name as an inspiration to other transgenders therefore her name should be included. Omnipedia ( talk) 19:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Janet Mock article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2022 and 6 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Campcrystallake1935, Shannonmullaley ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Mlproffitt, Virginia.Marshall, Glazejasmyn, Keelimancino, Eavinson3.
Learning to edit to fix the mistake about #girlslikeus being created for women of color, as Janet's blog specifically says that it was intended to bring together trans-women of all backgrounds here. If I do anything wrong I'm hoping someone will fix it. This is my first Wikipedia edit ever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.7.29.36 ( talk) 15:59, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
One of the cite articles said she has a Native Hawaiian mother and African-American father. Therefore, I added her to the category LGBT African Americans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.246.5 ( talk) 03:01, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Hey, I move that Janet Mock's male-assigned birth name be removed from the article. Disclosing the birth-assigned names of transgender persons (or "deadnaming") serves no educational or research purpose for the general Wikipedia user, and does little more than delegitimize the identities and intrude upon the privacy of transgender persons. Wikipedia's WP: Gender Identity advises on the issue of legal/birth names: "Legal names have little to no relevance to our naming policy. Nor is the state a neutral arbiter of these matters. If there is a difference between a person's gender expression and the gender assigned to them by the state, basic respect requires us to side with the individual. The status of transgender rights, for instance changing one's sex on a birth certificate, varies widely by jurisdiction. We also should avoid saying an article should be a particular way because of a basic opposition to the notion of changing one's public gender presentation." In fact, since Janet Mock is Mock's legal name, there is no need to use her birth name in this article at all. Pinko1977 ( talk) 22:30, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
Her website says she is an advocate but doesn't mention activist. Is there a difference? Should it match? -- DHeyward ( talk) 08:21, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
It's my understanding that "trans woman" is a broad term for persons that were assigned a non-female gender at birth but identify as female. A "transexual woman" is for persons that were assigned a non-female gender at birth and have started and/or completed a physical transformation to realign their physical bodies to their gender identity. Her original interview identifies her as a "transexual woman" and post-SRS (with hormones starting at 15 from a friend). The reason I ask is that some transexual women are offended to be lumped in with trans women that have not undergone any type of transition (i.e. those identifying as "Harry Benjamin Syndrome" are more likely to distinguish their "transexual" experience from what they label as cross-dressers or transvestites and the broader "trans" umbrella) and are adamant that they be addressed as a "woman" or "transexual woman" but not the broader category of "trans woman" as they don't identify with the broader categories. I thought it would be least offensive to use "transexual woman" for someone that is post-SRS but may be offensive to some to use "trans woman" (and not just for the subject, but others that have gone through the same physical transformation). In other words, this subject may not have a preference given her interviews and advocacy, the larger trans community probably wouldn't have an issue with "transexual woman" but a smaller post-SRS subset has an issue with "trans woman." Too nuanced? -- DHeyward ( talk) 00:35, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Neither of the sources use the term "misgendered" (one does, but in the magazine "namespace", not the article). When talking about the concept using the term is okay, but to use it as a verb in writing should be avoided per MOS:NEO, especially when the sources don't use the term.— Godsy( TALK CONT) 20:00, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
Response to third opinion request: |
Whether misgendering can truly be defined as a neologism is debatable; at any rate, I think it is suitable for it to not be considered original research. There are better sources for the term at Transphobia#Misgendering and exclusion; some (if not all) of said sources should be added to this article. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 03:34, 21 June 2015 (UTC) |
The article needs more sources. I have added some inline tags. SunCrow ( talk) 00:17, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
@ Rab V: This source was added to the article and is based on an interview with Janet Mock where she says:
“ | I was once a big dreamer who happened to be born a boy named Charles. I hope my story resonates with other big dreamers, lets them know that no matter how huge, how insane, how unreasonable or unreachable your goals may seem, nothing — not even your own body — can hold you back if you are certain and fearless and, yes, even a little ballsy in your quest. | ” |
She specifically stated her birth name as an inspiration to other transgenders therefore her name should be included. Omnipedia ( talk) 19:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC)