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It has to be made clear that this boy is Scottish and a British citizen; having an Irish grandmother does not make him Irish; as far as I understand it, and maybe I'm wrong, he was born and raised in Scotland to Scottish parents. He has never played for the Republic of Ireland either; doing so, should he ever, will not make him cease to be Scottish either, as sporting teams are just sporting teams. If this teenager has any personal views on his own nationality, the outside world has not been made aware of it, as his reasons for apparently choosing to play for an Irish youth team (which wouldn't make him a legal footballing Irishman either) have not been revealed. Calgacus ( ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 02:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Nationality is a really complicated issue, as it seems everyone in the world seems to have their own definition of it. In this case, unlike what the original poster said, the presence of an Irish grandmother does indeed make James McCarthy Irish, as it entitles him to Irish citizenship under Irish nationality law, I take it he has used that and become an Irish citizen, as unless there is some (ridiculous) FIFA rule that lets non-citizens play for national teams, he would have to have taken it up to play for Irish youth teams. It is also common practice to refer to athletes by the nation they represent, even in ambiguous cases such as this. If you ask me, he should be referred to as a "Scottish born Irish footballer" as it is the only wording that takes both of his nationalities into consideration, if you say he is Scottish, you ignore his Irish citizenship and his choice of national team but if you say he is Irish you ignore his country of birth and his British citizenship. 81.231.155.144 ( talk) 09:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, another week has passed, and there's still no further support for the change, so I've restored the previous wording. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:50, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
How should the issue of McCarthy's nationality and the team he chooses to play international football be phrased? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
My opinion, as given in the previous section, is that due to the disputed nature of nationality (especially as it pertains to sports representation) that we should not use broad terms such as "Irish" or "Scottish-born" to refer to the McCarthy's nationality. Instead, we should simply explain, in a couple of sentences, exactly what the facts are: that McCarthy was born in Scotland, but has chosen to play for the Republic of Ireland. This revision contains wording that seems appropriate.
The same compromise was reached (after considerable debate) on Giuseppe Rossi, who is in an almost identical situation.
Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
My opinion, as given in the previous section, is that due to the fact that nationality with regards football pertains to what country they play for - where they were born is not a defining factor. Both McCarthy and McGeady hold Irish passports and choose to play for Ireland - therefore making them Irish - simple as that no matter what bigots think. The Irish diaspora is very strong and it is hardly uncommon to for 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Irish people to still consider themselves primarily Irish - given the fact that both of these players actually hold Irish passports and play for Ireland just rubber stamps that.
The same situation arises with Richard Gough, who is in an almost identical situation.
I actually think that the current wording which states he is an "Irish international footballer" with a link to the article on the Irish team is a fair compromise.
-- Vintagekits ( talk) 10:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) This isnt really the topic we are discussing but does highlight some of the complexity of the issue. I think you will find the much of the "religious stuff" is one way. Back to nationality - it's simply impossible to overcoming the fact that he is Irish - legally, ethnically and by his own choice "footbally" - however, one cannot ignore the fact that he was born in Scotland. No one is trying to do that - this fact is clearly stated in the first line of the article immediately after his name - its also in the infobox and again in the main body of the article. -- Vintagekits ( talk) 15:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I believe the info should read something like this:
James McCarthy is a professional footballer who plays for Wigan Athletic. Although born in Scotland, McCarthy is eligible to represent the Irish football team at international level, and he has earned caps for the Irish under-21 side.
Or something similar. Giant Snowman 11:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Hello chaps wading in here as a totally uninvolved editor. Forgive my ignorance re: this question -- poked around a bit and found conflicting sources on whether or not McCarthy holds dual citizenship. Or, maybe put it this way -- does he hold or would he be eligible to hold both British and Irish passports. Has this been resolved? RomaC ( talk) 04:09, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Move to Everton has been completed. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/8903847/transfer-news-everton-sign-james-mccarthy-and-romelu-lukaku — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.157.131 ( talk) 22:43, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa ( talk) 16:03, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
– He gains far more views than all the other James McCarthys combined. [2] Unreal7 ( talk) 15:22, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
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It has to be made clear that this boy is Scottish and a British citizen; having an Irish grandmother does not make him Irish; as far as I understand it, and maybe I'm wrong, he was born and raised in Scotland to Scottish parents. He has never played for the Republic of Ireland either; doing so, should he ever, will not make him cease to be Scottish either, as sporting teams are just sporting teams. If this teenager has any personal views on his own nationality, the outside world has not been made aware of it, as his reasons for apparently choosing to play for an Irish youth team (which wouldn't make him a legal footballing Irishman either) have not been revealed. Calgacus ( ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 02:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Nationality is a really complicated issue, as it seems everyone in the world seems to have their own definition of it. In this case, unlike what the original poster said, the presence of an Irish grandmother does indeed make James McCarthy Irish, as it entitles him to Irish citizenship under Irish nationality law, I take it he has used that and become an Irish citizen, as unless there is some (ridiculous) FIFA rule that lets non-citizens play for national teams, he would have to have taken it up to play for Irish youth teams. It is also common practice to refer to athletes by the nation they represent, even in ambiguous cases such as this. If you ask me, he should be referred to as a "Scottish born Irish footballer" as it is the only wording that takes both of his nationalities into consideration, if you say he is Scottish, you ignore his Irish citizenship and his choice of national team but if you say he is Irish you ignore his country of birth and his British citizenship. 81.231.155.144 ( talk) 09:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, another week has passed, and there's still no further support for the change, so I've restored the previous wording. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:50, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
How should the issue of McCarthy's nationality and the team he chooses to play international football be phrased? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
My opinion, as given in the previous section, is that due to the disputed nature of nationality (especially as it pertains to sports representation) that we should not use broad terms such as "Irish" or "Scottish-born" to refer to the McCarthy's nationality. Instead, we should simply explain, in a couple of sentences, exactly what the facts are: that McCarthy was born in Scotland, but has chosen to play for the Republic of Ireland. This revision contains wording that seems appropriate.
The same compromise was reached (after considerable debate) on Giuseppe Rossi, who is in an almost identical situation.
Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
My opinion, as given in the previous section, is that due to the fact that nationality with regards football pertains to what country they play for - where they were born is not a defining factor. Both McCarthy and McGeady hold Irish passports and choose to play for Ireland - therefore making them Irish - simple as that no matter what bigots think. The Irish diaspora is very strong and it is hardly uncommon to for 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Irish people to still consider themselves primarily Irish - given the fact that both of these players actually hold Irish passports and play for Ireland just rubber stamps that.
The same situation arises with Richard Gough, who is in an almost identical situation.
I actually think that the current wording which states he is an "Irish international footballer" with a link to the article on the Irish team is a fair compromise.
-- Vintagekits ( talk) 10:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) This isnt really the topic we are discussing but does highlight some of the complexity of the issue. I think you will find the much of the "religious stuff" is one way. Back to nationality - it's simply impossible to overcoming the fact that he is Irish - legally, ethnically and by his own choice "footbally" - however, one cannot ignore the fact that he was born in Scotland. No one is trying to do that - this fact is clearly stated in the first line of the article immediately after his name - its also in the infobox and again in the main body of the article. -- Vintagekits ( talk) 15:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I believe the info should read something like this:
James McCarthy is a professional footballer who plays for Wigan Athletic. Although born in Scotland, McCarthy is eligible to represent the Irish football team at international level, and he has earned caps for the Irish under-21 side.
Or something similar. Giant Snowman 11:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Hello chaps wading in here as a totally uninvolved editor. Forgive my ignorance re: this question -- poked around a bit and found conflicting sources on whether or not McCarthy holds dual citizenship. Or, maybe put it this way -- does he hold or would he be eligible to hold both British and Irish passports. Has this been resolved? RomaC ( talk) 04:09, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Move to Everton has been completed. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/8903847/transfer-news-everton-sign-james-mccarthy-and-romelu-lukaku — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.157.131 ( talk) 22:43, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa ( talk) 16:03, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
– He gains far more views than all the other James McCarthys combined. [2] Unreal7 ( talk) 15:22, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
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