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Now the entire Tamil Brahmin community,particularly the Iyer community, is a beleaguered community in Tamilnadu. Popular reasoning is that they are being made to atone for the sins they committed on the other communities in the past Karma. Majority find it comfortable to deport themselves to escape the wrath of the violent anti - Brahmin regime of all the parties that come to power in the State of Tamilnadu. Even the God has cursed them and the curse is that the communities will have everything like School, Colleges, Hospitals, Mutt, Corporate houses etc to them not serving them. The most intellectual of this community are those talking derogatory of the community to ensure respectability for the others. The lofty ideals of their way of life cannot now be followed by them due to the prevailing system that drives them to alienate themselves from any ideals for their life.
This has to be discussed because in a forum seeking Reservation for Brahmins, it is the Brahmins who voice opinion against it.
Sailapathi ( talk) 03:36, 23 September 2010 (UTC)Sailapathi
Wikipedia is not a blog. Kindly don't put your political or social opinions here.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 02:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
Please remove reference to "Pudiya Tamizhagam, Dr.Krishnasamy". According to Wikipedia policies, Wikipedia should not be used for political purposes. The statements from that politicians who oppose Iyers and seek to marginalize them, should not be published. Also refer some court cases against him before polluting wikipedia. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gvivek2004 ( talk • contribs) 14:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
You have mentioned this:
(rm claim. The paper does not refer to any particular communities)
and have deleted the mention of community names from the below:
A 2007 study revealed that Iyers and Iyengars formed a separate cluster along with the high-ranking non-Brahmin communities of Tamil Nadu such as Ambalakarar and Veerakodi
Vellalars
[1].
Kindly note the neighbour-joning tree on page 4 of the paper showing affinity with Veerakodi Vellalar, which in turn shows affinity with Amabalakarar. The study was to compare Mukkalathor communities with those of Iyers, Iyengars on one end, and Pallans and Vanniyars on the other end. Also note the gene flow amongst communities in the outliers in the heterozygosity vs distance diagram on page 6. The study noted the communities mentioned in the outliers as having higher than predicted heterozygosity. On the same page 6 you can find this mentioned:
The two Brahmins (Iyer and Iyengar) alongwith the high rank non-Brahmin formed a separate cluster.....The highrank non-Brahmin group – Veerakodi Vellalar and low rank non-Brahmin – Ambalakarar are the outliers of the above cluster...
Since the paper does mention the name of the community specifically as "highrank non-Brahmin group – Veerakodi Vellalar", I am therefore reinstating the mention of the Veerakodi Vellalar in the page. --
= No ||| Illusion = (
talk) 18:05, 27 January 2010 (UTC)Mayasutra
Hi Ravichandar The "practice" of Madi is described but it fails to link it to the practice of untouchability (which is where it finds its roots). Madi is still not diminished, in many Iyer homes, lower castes are still allowed entry into the prayer room, women are considered "impure" during their periods, vessels used by NBs are washed. These practices are very much prevalent amongst practising priests of the Iyer caste. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.235.133 ( talk) 15:02, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
References
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cite web}}
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This article sucks. The outline sucks, there are too many sections, there is too much random information. Why can't it be done properly like any other article on a any other community? This whole Aryan origin stuff is also pointless - this is an Encyclopedia, and until there is evidence that Iyers are Aryans, it should not be included. A very brief mention of the politics of it can be made lower down, but this article is seriously nonsense. It sounds like a hotheaded politically inclined Iyer and non-Brahmin Tamilian have made this article; it looks like a compromise between two retards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.117.106.213 ( talk) 18:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
You can insult me all you want. But the fact remains that this article sucks balls. It really looks like it's been written by politically inclined retards. This article will never get a star rating... ever. It needs a total revamp. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
99.230.5.210 (
talk) 21:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
well, the article is very bad. It's still not as bad as "articles on other Indian communities", but that isn't saying much. I have no idea what the GA tag is doing on this page.
The article needs to get its act together, stop bickering over racial/genetics red herrings, and instead give information on this population group in a detached manner, without "shrouded in mystery" and similar hilarities. -- dab (𒁳) 15:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
The grouping of subsects is perfectly in accordance with Edgar Thurston, and to a lesser extent, Castes in Indian Politics and Jogender Nath Bhattacharya. This sort of alphabetical group of sections or sub-sections (which, of course, don't comprise a list) are unnecessary and disruptive, almost akin to vandalism. - The Enforcer Office of the secret service 16:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
I reviewed the first paragraphs about the origins including the lead paragraph. Notice, that almost every reference regarding "Ayya" = "Arya" as well as North Indian name associations are critically violating against the quality sources guidelines. Such important information doesn't need random website articles, but well reviewed and respected books by all parties. Actually one or two of these references were real books and I googled for "THE EVOLUTION OF AN ETHNIC IDENTITY — The Tamils in Sri Lanka" and I found a review by The Hindu. Another book "The land of the Permauls, or, Cochin, its past and its present By Francis Day" (google scholar) didn't give me any information about Iyers or Bhattar's. I'm ignoring now the random websites, which look simply aweful. Some references were also attributed to the wrong sentence like in the Arya Ayya sentence, where infact no reference was found about Arya. I understand, that this is not merely a coincidence, but possibly an attempt to make the Iyers look as pure Aryans, while their mothertongues were Dravidian for many centuries. We will only know more about it, when we get proper sources. Needless to say, that the paragraphs should be reviewed sentence by sentence, word by word by experienced users. -- Neutralpointofyou ( talk) 17:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Is this editor trying to crack a joke?????- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 16:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
HLA affiniities shows Iyers are descendents of central asia http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/5220/brahmin_dna_study1.htm
I have reverted multiple edits by Jaggi81 ( talk · contribs) as they removed long standing sourced content, and added dubiously sourced content like Iyers came from Arya, referencing it to etymologyonline for the word Aryan and so on. Unless some clear evidence is presented by the editor that the content doesn't belong in this article, it should not be removed. - Spaceman Spiff 02:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I had modified the entry on Iyer genetics using as reference a paper on the subject, which was then removed by SpacemanSpiff on the context of not providing reference - despite the fact that I had. Care to explain? -- Coolian ( talk)
There was no concept of Brahmins in dravidian society, ie no caste based on Varna. This is imported from aryan system. Brahmins of TN are different from dravidians. Its evident from their traditiosn, skin colour and exxessive use of sanskrit in their dialects. Anyone have more information on this? can we discuss? Vvmundakkal ( talk) 08:39, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
http://books.google.com/books?id=FL0OAAAAIAAJ&q=Aryan+aiyar&dq=Aryan+aiyar&lr=
http://books.google.com/books?id=rMfWAAAAMAAJ&q=Aryan+aiyar&dq=Aryan+aiyar&lr= Vvmundakkal ( talk) 08:51, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Vvmundakkal ( talk) 13:12, 6 December 2009 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Vvmundakkal ( talk • contribs) 13:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
You are welcome to have your view and to share it with others, however there are some flaws. Firstly, Ayyappa may be derived from "Arya", but is by no means evidence for a Buddhist shrine. There is no evidence at all to show that Sabarimala was a Buddhist shrine, either archaelogically or historically. Ayya was used as a term of respect, since Arya mean "Noble". Also, the term "Sharanam", which is the main evidence put forward for a Buddhist influence, is moreso a result of the Bhakti movement, which preached Sharanagati (surrender to the Lord)
Secondly, the Vaishnava movement gained strength only in the 12th century with
Ramanujacharya, and the Bhakti movement of the time. There are mentions of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu from the
Sangam Age, about 300BC, and could well have existed in Tamil Nadu before that itself.
Thirdly, migration to Kerala and Canara occurred well before the 12th century, since Adi Shankaracharya (born a Kerala Brahmin) lived in the 7th century. There is also no proof of settlement in Kerala by Brahmins, and their unique practices of Shrauta, have set them apart from other Brahmins.
At the end of the day the fact is there is no solid proof of migration to Tamil Nadu, by either Aryans or Dravidians. As well there is no proof of an Aryan race, which is in itself an outdated concept. By all means, express your views, but please find evidence before presenting your views as actual fact.
58.165.6.47 (
talk) 06:43, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I have made some recent edits with a clear sense of purpose and based on well known and accepted evidences 1. The moment we include Gurukkals as Iyers we talk about Adi-Saiva Brahmins and not just Smarthas 2. That Link to an Aryan Origin, brings us close to Aryan theory and we dont need to give a detailed treatment in first paragraph as it is explained in much detail later in article and in the provided links within wikipedia and elsewhere. But what caused me to first change this paragraph is the use of the term popular tradition- Can something be a tradition just because it is only 50-100 years old. Imagine the consequence today informed readers know that the theories are only as old as 100 years or little more. But 50 years from now with repeated usage of such theories it could easily be assumed that it much older.So use of word opinion takes into account anything that can be classsified tradition and otherwise. Among other changes I have made, the evidence to the opposite that Iyers are not always North Indians comes from a genetic study that in general all Tamil Populations and castes have received gentic inflow from castes and populations from other regions of the country. This is sufficient to show that there is an evidence to discredit the opinion - Iyers are North Indians and other tamilians are pure south Indian because what we have is a generous intermingling of various castes. Furthermore if people want to still talk about no brahmin dravidians being somehow more tamil than others, we are still left with a very funny situation. That Nadars and other secluded tribes of Tamil Nadu can indeed be considered very ancient to this part of the country. At the same time these tribes were traditionally not among the best speakers of classical tamil, and as such there is no evidence of that, inspite of the tall claims being made by Nadars. The Nadar Tamil can usually best desribed as Nadar Tamil, which is very different from classical Tamil. Needless to say purely unmingled populations of Tamil Nadu are very small in number. -- Harishsubramanian ( talk) 13:26, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm looking for credible sources that say Brahmins should abstain from alcohol. There are two sources in this article that are cited claiming that Brahmins are required to abstain from alcohol. These are:
I looked at the first source and I'm probably looking in the wrong place but this source seems completely irrelevant - it is about Armenia, Turkey and Persia. The exact page numbers are not given for the 2nd source. Can anyone help?
Other sources that may possibly have problems:
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link){{
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at position 13 (
help)- Zuggernaut ( talk) 19:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
There are two sources in this article that are cited claiming that Brahmins are required to abstain from alcohol. These are:
I looked at the first source and I'm probably looking in the wrong place but this source seems completely irrelevant - it is about Armenia, Turkey and Persia. The exact page numbers are not given for the 2nd source. Can anyone help?
Other sources that may possibly have problems:
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
WP:Sources{{
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value: invalid character (
help); templatestyles stripmarker in |isbn=
at position 13 (
help) Should be called legendary origin or something like that. It is not a correct anthropological account, just legend.{{
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WP:Sources{{
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WP:Sources
51. The article doses not deserve a good article status.
The book "Castes & Tribes in Southern India" does not have any free or limited preview in the internet.
No ISBN numbers have been provided in any of the iyengar or iyer wiki pages. The Isbn number ie provided in the edgar thurston page ,specifically for "Volumes 1-a,b" and "volume-2" is ISBN 978-8120602885. Wiki editors claim references for some controversial statements such as "all iyengars were once iyers, who later converted to vaishnavism", etc etc from these volumes.
Actually, the isbn number leads to a complete collection of all seven volumes. As you all already know, clicking on the isbn number leads to the "wiki book search result page", which in turn gives many links as to where the book might be available for any "free or limited preview".
But here, there is no such online preview for these volumes(1-a,b & 2) anywhere. Hence the contents are not verifiable by any mean. The only verifiable mean would be to buy the book directly.
The book is written by both Thurston and "K.Rangachari". But here "K.Rangachari" himself is an Iyengar. Such "non-online references" alone, atleast need be written by 3rd parties.
I can cite all the above reasons to delete all claims made from these "non-existent references".
Anyhow, none of the references are valid under any wiki' rule or regulation ,& hence should be deleted as they are used for controversial statements. If someone's going to indicate the "primary source" factor, that they've witnessed the contents of the article, then i suppose they are to provide a valid secondary source for support.
All controversial claims made from castes & tribes should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hari7478 ( talk • contribs) 11:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not an expert on Castes but I guess this argument is baseless.Edgar Thurston's Book does have some flaws but overall its a good source IMO.-
Raghavan(
Talk) 14:59, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Please remove Usha Uthup's name from the "patronage of art" segment. She was born an Iyer, but she is married to a Christain. Refer: the wikipedia page on her - "She is married to Jani Chacko Uthup." She had mentioned in an interview that she was baptised and therefore technically she is a Christian. She is no longer an Iyer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.184.110.201 ( talk) 08:19, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
I have absolutely no idea why this has been rated as a Good Article. It relies principally on the work of Edgar Thurston, a scientific racist and plagiarist who had a flawed sampling methodology and was writing over a century ago. It would not be quite so bad if this was made clear and if, for example, the past tense was used more frequently. For example, I find it difficult to accept that the Cuisine section properly reflects the habits of today. - Sitush ( talk) 00:43, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
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Orgin of this word The work Iyer is corruption of prakrit "Arya" also Aryan, the terminal "aar" or "kaar" is added as honorific title of address.This terminal "aar" and "kaar" is still seen in Marathi language.
Arya + aar = Aryaaar corrupted to Ayyar Arya + kar = Aryaarkar coorpted to Aryakar or Ayyankar
203.192.196.157 ( talk) 09:21, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Delisted AIRcorn (talk) 05:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
There have been concerns over the article's quality for a long time. I've not been attend to it due to lack of time nor do I have enough time to keep an eye on the article. Hence I feel that it should be delisted.- Ravi My Tea Kadai 02:36, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
This reassessment has not seen much action for a while. Wondering whats its status is. AIRcorn (talk) 10:37, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
The begining of the article cites possible Aryan origin of the Iyers ( see similarities in the words ), but then says it is debunked by some research. I looked at the research and found that this was a fake science research done by Benaras Hindu University that has an agenda from Hindu fundamentalists that do not want to accept the Aryan invasion history. This research cited is not accepted by rest of the historian community and the existing linguisting and genetic research overwhelmigly prove that the central asian Aryan invasion thoery of India is true. There is nothing shameful about it, its high time the Hindu fundamentalists accept it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.96.55.163 ( talk) 01:44, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Aryan Invasion theory is 100% accurate. Iyers are the original Aryans. Please remove the sentence where it says Aryan theory has been debunked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brahmin 007 ( talk • contribs) 00:54, 14 July 2013 (UTC) Before mocking Aryan migration theory this "academic community" must explain some points.Like.. 1)how is it that majority of the languages of Eurasia have a common origin /info/en/?search=Proto-Indo-European_language (the geographical spread is wider than the mocking ) 2)explain the evidence of horse domestication in Eurasian steppes in relation to its importance Vedic texts..still existing wild species of horses are found in those regions h/info/en/?search=Wild_horse
3)Soma/Haoma plant in Veda/Avesta grows naturally in colder climates of Central Asia -- /info/en/?search=Haoma — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerexes9 ( talk • contribs) 18:53, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
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In the Criticism topic, there is some information with wrong reference. need to edit
Pdmurugan (
talk) 10:07, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi,
I would to talk /edit about content in Criticism section of Iyer wiki page.
The article reference 90 doesn't hold any authentication and not provided any support link and that is deadlink; You guys should remove the words about the Pallar immediately, its hurts lot which is never applicable to Devendrar/ Mallar/ Pallar; some bstrd purposely done derogatory remark on other community. It should be removed immediately. if any question or information on this, contact for clarification, would like to see action on the same. Hope you guys understand the nature of the issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maruthanilavendan ( talk • contribs) 13:16, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi I have a small video that I made as a part of a filmmaking class that shows the indian morning rituals in a Iyer household. What would be a good place to include it in? -- Shrutim21 ( talk) 04:11, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
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______________ Present Content: Dalit leader and founder of political party Pudiya Tamizhagam, Dr.Krishnasamy admits that the Anti-Brahmin Movement had not succeeded up to the expectations and that there continues to be as much discrimination of Dalits as had been before.
So many movements have failed. In Tamil Nadu there was a movement in the name of anti-Brahmanism under the leadership of Periyar. It attracted Dalits, but after 30 years of power, the Dalits understand that they are as badly-off - or worse-off - as they were under the Brahmans. Under Dravidian rule, they have been attacked and killed, their due share in government service is not given, they are not allowed to rise. [1]
________________ In above content there is inappropriate word Dalit related to Pudiya Tamilagam; Puthiya Tamilagam is party belong to Devendra Kula Vellalar Community, they are not related to Dalit at all, in Sangam period to till date their occupation is paddy/ agriculturalist(Kudumbar/Mallar, Kurmis in North) and worshiper of God Indra(Indira Kulam), They have rich spiritual heritages; Major temples in Tamil Nadu build by their Ancestor Pandiya, Cholas period; still they have first rights in all temple events and they are are pure supporter of Bharatiya Janatha Parties Principals, welcomed first includes recent moves "Ban on Cattle Slaughter"; this is due to respecting Cattle as part of their day to day Agricultural usage life of their community peoples and respect / prey Cows in Pongal Festivals(In ancient period, its Indra Vizha) and many;
I strongly object to use the word dalit in Puthiya Thamilagam or Dr. Krishnasamy. There are many dalit outfits include VCK / Arunthathiyar parties agree eating beef is there right in openly and thru films(Director Ranjit Films).
I request you to remove the whole contents Marked which hurt sentiments of Devendra Kula Vellalar. The link Provided [72], which purposely drag Devendra Community into Ambedkar.org; This article was made content with intention to derogate Devendrar Community and Puthiya Thamilagam.
I would appreciate your prompt understanding and quick action on removing the marked contents, any information i would happy to assist. Thank you. RajeshPandian.sa ( talk) 14:39, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
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Someone kindly take a minute to add useful and interesting content to Telaga caste, Kapu caste, balija caste pages
Use the link - http://www.kapusangam.com/history.php
Also, Telaga caste is Forward caste. Mention it in the right column — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.147.202.107 ( talk) 18:47, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
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The page says Iyer is a "caste" in the Brahmin community, which is technically incorrect. Iyer is a "sub-community" in the Brahmin community similar to Iyengars, Namboothiris, etc. The word caste has been applied here incorrectly. Xodus99 ( talk) 06:59, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
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Notable people
References
Much of this article, especially the last part, is written specifically from the Brahmin point of view and attempts to either defame Dravidian parties or defend the Brahmins from the accusations against them rather than presenting them in an objective light. For example, it mentions "Alleged" discrimination when it is perfectly well-documented that the Brahmins did not allow most non-Brahmins from entering their temples, as well as a host of other casteist terms. Can someone please fix these issues? C1MM ( talk) 01:19, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
More information needs to go into the origin section. Readers are interested in knowing about the origin of the south Indian caste called Iyers. Currently, the origin section has a link to Indo-Aryan migration theories? What is one supposed to make of it? The Indo-Aryan article speaks about Indo-Iranian people originating in the Ural mountains somewhere in Russia. So you got onto a chariot in the Central Steppes and then arrived at the Indus Valley Civilisationaa while worshipping Indra, drinking soma, burning cows and munching beef jerkiesaa? Then the article talks about Aryan invasion versus migration theory. So after conquering the IVC you thought that it would do good to demote Indra and switched to present godsaa? Iyers are scions and torch-bearers of Andronovo culturaa? Also, mention when Iyers migrated to south India as there is no information on this. And then the origin section has a link to an article on gene pool. What is this for? Are you indigenous south Indian people who took up sanskrit and vedic religion due to a fusion of cultures or are you of mixed ancestry? or are you an unaltered homogeneous gene pool from the time you arrived from Russia or wherever? I am not even going ask why most Iyers look south Indian so it is totally cool if it is the last one, just tweak the lede from Tamil origin to Tamil speaking Brahmins if it is just a linguistic affiliation. Nittawinoda ( talk) 04:35, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
To add to the lead of this article: the Tamil spellings of this name: ஐயர் and அய்யர். 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 00:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
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Traditionally, the Iyer community, which belongs to the Brahmin caste of South India, has predominantly followed a vegetarian diet, adhering to their cultural and religious beliefs. However, in recent times, there has been an observed shift in dietary practices among some members of the Iyer community, with a small but notable number choosing to include non-vegetarian food in their diets. This shift in dietary preferences is influenced by factors such as individual choices, cultural influences, and evolving societal norms. Mikey.patterson ( talk) 15:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
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Now the entire Tamil Brahmin community,particularly the Iyer community, is a beleaguered community in Tamilnadu. Popular reasoning is that they are being made to atone for the sins they committed on the other communities in the past Karma. Majority find it comfortable to deport themselves to escape the wrath of the violent anti - Brahmin regime of all the parties that come to power in the State of Tamilnadu. Even the God has cursed them and the curse is that the communities will have everything like School, Colleges, Hospitals, Mutt, Corporate houses etc to them not serving them. The most intellectual of this community are those talking derogatory of the community to ensure respectability for the others. The lofty ideals of their way of life cannot now be followed by them due to the prevailing system that drives them to alienate themselves from any ideals for their life.
This has to be discussed because in a forum seeking Reservation for Brahmins, it is the Brahmins who voice opinion against it.
Sailapathi ( talk) 03:36, 23 September 2010 (UTC)Sailapathi
Wikipedia is not a blog. Kindly don't put your political or social opinions here.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 02:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
Please remove reference to "Pudiya Tamizhagam, Dr.Krishnasamy". According to Wikipedia policies, Wikipedia should not be used for political purposes. The statements from that politicians who oppose Iyers and seek to marginalize them, should not be published. Also refer some court cases against him before polluting wikipedia. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gvivek2004 ( talk • contribs) 14:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
You have mentioned this:
(rm claim. The paper does not refer to any particular communities)
and have deleted the mention of community names from the below:
A 2007 study revealed that Iyers and Iyengars formed a separate cluster along with the high-ranking non-Brahmin communities of Tamil Nadu such as Ambalakarar and Veerakodi
Vellalars
[1].
Kindly note the neighbour-joning tree on page 4 of the paper showing affinity with Veerakodi Vellalar, which in turn shows affinity with Amabalakarar. The study was to compare Mukkalathor communities with those of Iyers, Iyengars on one end, and Pallans and Vanniyars on the other end. Also note the gene flow amongst communities in the outliers in the heterozygosity vs distance diagram on page 6. The study noted the communities mentioned in the outliers as having higher than predicted heterozygosity. On the same page 6 you can find this mentioned:
The two Brahmins (Iyer and Iyengar) alongwith the high rank non-Brahmin formed a separate cluster.....The highrank non-Brahmin group – Veerakodi Vellalar and low rank non-Brahmin – Ambalakarar are the outliers of the above cluster...
Since the paper does mention the name of the community specifically as "highrank non-Brahmin group – Veerakodi Vellalar", I am therefore reinstating the mention of the Veerakodi Vellalar in the page. --
= No ||| Illusion = (
talk) 18:05, 27 January 2010 (UTC)Mayasutra
Hi Ravichandar The "practice" of Madi is described but it fails to link it to the practice of untouchability (which is where it finds its roots). Madi is still not diminished, in many Iyer homes, lower castes are still allowed entry into the prayer room, women are considered "impure" during their periods, vessels used by NBs are washed. These practices are very much prevalent amongst practising priests of the Iyer caste. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.235.133 ( talk) 15:02, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
References
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This article sucks. The outline sucks, there are too many sections, there is too much random information. Why can't it be done properly like any other article on a any other community? This whole Aryan origin stuff is also pointless - this is an Encyclopedia, and until there is evidence that Iyers are Aryans, it should not be included. A very brief mention of the politics of it can be made lower down, but this article is seriously nonsense. It sounds like a hotheaded politically inclined Iyer and non-Brahmin Tamilian have made this article; it looks like a compromise between two retards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.117.106.213 ( talk) 18:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
You can insult me all you want. But the fact remains that this article sucks balls. It really looks like it's been written by politically inclined retards. This article will never get a star rating... ever. It needs a total revamp. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
99.230.5.210 (
talk) 21:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
well, the article is very bad. It's still not as bad as "articles on other Indian communities", but that isn't saying much. I have no idea what the GA tag is doing on this page.
The article needs to get its act together, stop bickering over racial/genetics red herrings, and instead give information on this population group in a detached manner, without "shrouded in mystery" and similar hilarities. -- dab (𒁳) 15:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
The grouping of subsects is perfectly in accordance with Edgar Thurston, and to a lesser extent, Castes in Indian Politics and Jogender Nath Bhattacharya. This sort of alphabetical group of sections or sub-sections (which, of course, don't comprise a list) are unnecessary and disruptive, almost akin to vandalism. - The Enforcer Office of the secret service 16:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
I reviewed the first paragraphs about the origins including the lead paragraph. Notice, that almost every reference regarding "Ayya" = "Arya" as well as North Indian name associations are critically violating against the quality sources guidelines. Such important information doesn't need random website articles, but well reviewed and respected books by all parties. Actually one or two of these references were real books and I googled for "THE EVOLUTION OF AN ETHNIC IDENTITY — The Tamils in Sri Lanka" and I found a review by The Hindu. Another book "The land of the Permauls, or, Cochin, its past and its present By Francis Day" (google scholar) didn't give me any information about Iyers or Bhattar's. I'm ignoring now the random websites, which look simply aweful. Some references were also attributed to the wrong sentence like in the Arya Ayya sentence, where infact no reference was found about Arya. I understand, that this is not merely a coincidence, but possibly an attempt to make the Iyers look as pure Aryans, while their mothertongues were Dravidian for many centuries. We will only know more about it, when we get proper sources. Needless to say, that the paragraphs should be reviewed sentence by sentence, word by word by experienced users. -- Neutralpointofyou ( talk) 17:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Is this editor trying to crack a joke?????- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 16:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
HLA affiniities shows Iyers are descendents of central asia http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/5220/brahmin_dna_study1.htm
I have reverted multiple edits by Jaggi81 ( talk · contribs) as they removed long standing sourced content, and added dubiously sourced content like Iyers came from Arya, referencing it to etymologyonline for the word Aryan and so on. Unless some clear evidence is presented by the editor that the content doesn't belong in this article, it should not be removed. - Spaceman Spiff 02:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I had modified the entry on Iyer genetics using as reference a paper on the subject, which was then removed by SpacemanSpiff on the context of not providing reference - despite the fact that I had. Care to explain? -- Coolian ( talk)
There was no concept of Brahmins in dravidian society, ie no caste based on Varna. This is imported from aryan system. Brahmins of TN are different from dravidians. Its evident from their traditiosn, skin colour and exxessive use of sanskrit in their dialects. Anyone have more information on this? can we discuss? Vvmundakkal ( talk) 08:39, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
http://books.google.com/books?id=FL0OAAAAIAAJ&q=Aryan+aiyar&dq=Aryan+aiyar&lr=
http://books.google.com/books?id=rMfWAAAAMAAJ&q=Aryan+aiyar&dq=Aryan+aiyar&lr= Vvmundakkal ( talk) 08:51, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Vvmundakkal ( talk) 13:12, 6 December 2009 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Vvmundakkal ( talk • contribs) 13:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
You are welcome to have your view and to share it with others, however there are some flaws. Firstly, Ayyappa may be derived from "Arya", but is by no means evidence for a Buddhist shrine. There is no evidence at all to show that Sabarimala was a Buddhist shrine, either archaelogically or historically. Ayya was used as a term of respect, since Arya mean "Noble". Also, the term "Sharanam", which is the main evidence put forward for a Buddhist influence, is moreso a result of the Bhakti movement, which preached Sharanagati (surrender to the Lord)
Secondly, the Vaishnava movement gained strength only in the 12th century with
Ramanujacharya, and the Bhakti movement of the time. There are mentions of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu from the
Sangam Age, about 300BC, and could well have existed in Tamil Nadu before that itself.
Thirdly, migration to Kerala and Canara occurred well before the 12th century, since Adi Shankaracharya (born a Kerala Brahmin) lived in the 7th century. There is also no proof of settlement in Kerala by Brahmins, and their unique practices of Shrauta, have set them apart from other Brahmins.
At the end of the day the fact is there is no solid proof of migration to Tamil Nadu, by either Aryans or Dravidians. As well there is no proof of an Aryan race, which is in itself an outdated concept. By all means, express your views, but please find evidence before presenting your views as actual fact.
58.165.6.47 (
talk) 06:43, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I have made some recent edits with a clear sense of purpose and based on well known and accepted evidences 1. The moment we include Gurukkals as Iyers we talk about Adi-Saiva Brahmins and not just Smarthas 2. That Link to an Aryan Origin, brings us close to Aryan theory and we dont need to give a detailed treatment in first paragraph as it is explained in much detail later in article and in the provided links within wikipedia and elsewhere. But what caused me to first change this paragraph is the use of the term popular tradition- Can something be a tradition just because it is only 50-100 years old. Imagine the consequence today informed readers know that the theories are only as old as 100 years or little more. But 50 years from now with repeated usage of such theories it could easily be assumed that it much older.So use of word opinion takes into account anything that can be classsified tradition and otherwise. Among other changes I have made, the evidence to the opposite that Iyers are not always North Indians comes from a genetic study that in general all Tamil Populations and castes have received gentic inflow from castes and populations from other regions of the country. This is sufficient to show that there is an evidence to discredit the opinion - Iyers are North Indians and other tamilians are pure south Indian because what we have is a generous intermingling of various castes. Furthermore if people want to still talk about no brahmin dravidians being somehow more tamil than others, we are still left with a very funny situation. That Nadars and other secluded tribes of Tamil Nadu can indeed be considered very ancient to this part of the country. At the same time these tribes were traditionally not among the best speakers of classical tamil, and as such there is no evidence of that, inspite of the tall claims being made by Nadars. The Nadar Tamil can usually best desribed as Nadar Tamil, which is very different from classical Tamil. Needless to say purely unmingled populations of Tamil Nadu are very small in number. -- Harishsubramanian ( talk) 13:26, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm looking for credible sources that say Brahmins should abstain from alcohol. There are two sources in this article that are cited claiming that Brahmins are required to abstain from alcohol. These are:
I looked at the first source and I'm probably looking in the wrong place but this source seems completely irrelevant - it is about Armenia, Turkey and Persia. The exact page numbers are not given for the 2nd source. Can anyone help?
Other sources that may possibly have problems:
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link){{
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at position 13 (
help)- Zuggernaut ( talk) 19:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
There are two sources in this article that are cited claiming that Brahmins are required to abstain from alcohol. These are:
I looked at the first source and I'm probably looking in the wrong place but this source seems completely irrelevant - it is about Armenia, Turkey and Persia. The exact page numbers are not given for the 2nd source. Can anyone help?
Other sources that may possibly have problems:
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
WP:Sources{{
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value: invalid character (
help); templatestyles stripmarker in |isbn=
at position 13 (
help) Should be called legendary origin or something like that. It is not a correct anthropological account, just legend.{{
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WP:Sources{{
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WP:Sources
51. The article doses not deserve a good article status.
The book "Castes & Tribes in Southern India" does not have any free or limited preview in the internet.
No ISBN numbers have been provided in any of the iyengar or iyer wiki pages. The Isbn number ie provided in the edgar thurston page ,specifically for "Volumes 1-a,b" and "volume-2" is ISBN 978-8120602885. Wiki editors claim references for some controversial statements such as "all iyengars were once iyers, who later converted to vaishnavism", etc etc from these volumes.
Actually, the isbn number leads to a complete collection of all seven volumes. As you all already know, clicking on the isbn number leads to the "wiki book search result page", which in turn gives many links as to where the book might be available for any "free or limited preview".
But here, there is no such online preview for these volumes(1-a,b & 2) anywhere. Hence the contents are not verifiable by any mean. The only verifiable mean would be to buy the book directly.
The book is written by both Thurston and "K.Rangachari". But here "K.Rangachari" himself is an Iyengar. Such "non-online references" alone, atleast need be written by 3rd parties.
I can cite all the above reasons to delete all claims made from these "non-existent references".
Anyhow, none of the references are valid under any wiki' rule or regulation ,& hence should be deleted as they are used for controversial statements. If someone's going to indicate the "primary source" factor, that they've witnessed the contents of the article, then i suppose they are to provide a valid secondary source for support.
All controversial claims made from castes & tribes should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hari7478 ( talk • contribs) 11:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not an expert on Castes but I guess this argument is baseless.Edgar Thurston's Book does have some flaws but overall its a good source IMO.-
Raghavan(
Talk) 14:59, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Please remove Usha Uthup's name from the "patronage of art" segment. She was born an Iyer, but she is married to a Christain. Refer: the wikipedia page on her - "She is married to Jani Chacko Uthup." She had mentioned in an interview that she was baptised and therefore technically she is a Christian. She is no longer an Iyer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.184.110.201 ( talk) 08:19, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
I have absolutely no idea why this has been rated as a Good Article. It relies principally on the work of Edgar Thurston, a scientific racist and plagiarist who had a flawed sampling methodology and was writing over a century ago. It would not be quite so bad if this was made clear and if, for example, the past tense was used more frequently. For example, I find it difficult to accept that the Cuisine section properly reflects the habits of today. - Sitush ( talk) 00:43, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
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Orgin of this word The work Iyer is corruption of prakrit "Arya" also Aryan, the terminal "aar" or "kaar" is added as honorific title of address.This terminal "aar" and "kaar" is still seen in Marathi language.
Arya + aar = Aryaaar corrupted to Ayyar Arya + kar = Aryaarkar coorpted to Aryakar or Ayyankar
203.192.196.157 ( talk) 09:21, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Delisted AIRcorn (talk) 05:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
There have been concerns over the article's quality for a long time. I've not been attend to it due to lack of time nor do I have enough time to keep an eye on the article. Hence I feel that it should be delisted.- Ravi My Tea Kadai 02:36, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
This reassessment has not seen much action for a while. Wondering whats its status is. AIRcorn (talk) 10:37, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
The begining of the article cites possible Aryan origin of the Iyers ( see similarities in the words ), but then says it is debunked by some research. I looked at the research and found that this was a fake science research done by Benaras Hindu University that has an agenda from Hindu fundamentalists that do not want to accept the Aryan invasion history. This research cited is not accepted by rest of the historian community and the existing linguisting and genetic research overwhelmigly prove that the central asian Aryan invasion thoery of India is true. There is nothing shameful about it, its high time the Hindu fundamentalists accept it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.96.55.163 ( talk) 01:44, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Aryan Invasion theory is 100% accurate. Iyers are the original Aryans. Please remove the sentence where it says Aryan theory has been debunked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brahmin 007 ( talk • contribs) 00:54, 14 July 2013 (UTC) Before mocking Aryan migration theory this "academic community" must explain some points.Like.. 1)how is it that majority of the languages of Eurasia have a common origin /info/en/?search=Proto-Indo-European_language (the geographical spread is wider than the mocking ) 2)explain the evidence of horse domestication in Eurasian steppes in relation to its importance Vedic texts..still existing wild species of horses are found in those regions h/info/en/?search=Wild_horse
3)Soma/Haoma plant in Veda/Avesta grows naturally in colder climates of Central Asia -- /info/en/?search=Haoma — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerexes9 ( talk • contribs) 18:53, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
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In the Criticism topic, there is some information with wrong reference. need to edit
Pdmurugan (
talk) 10:07, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi,
I would to talk /edit about content in Criticism section of Iyer wiki page.
The article reference 90 doesn't hold any authentication and not provided any support link and that is deadlink; You guys should remove the words about the Pallar immediately, its hurts lot which is never applicable to Devendrar/ Mallar/ Pallar; some bstrd purposely done derogatory remark on other community. It should be removed immediately. if any question or information on this, contact for clarification, would like to see action on the same. Hope you guys understand the nature of the issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maruthanilavendan ( talk • contribs) 13:16, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi I have a small video that I made as a part of a filmmaking class that shows the indian morning rituals in a Iyer household. What would be a good place to include it in? -- Shrutim21 ( talk) 04:11, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
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______________ Present Content: Dalit leader and founder of political party Pudiya Tamizhagam, Dr.Krishnasamy admits that the Anti-Brahmin Movement had not succeeded up to the expectations and that there continues to be as much discrimination of Dalits as had been before.
So many movements have failed. In Tamil Nadu there was a movement in the name of anti-Brahmanism under the leadership of Periyar. It attracted Dalits, but after 30 years of power, the Dalits understand that they are as badly-off - or worse-off - as they were under the Brahmans. Under Dravidian rule, they have been attacked and killed, their due share in government service is not given, they are not allowed to rise. [1]
________________ In above content there is inappropriate word Dalit related to Pudiya Tamilagam; Puthiya Tamilagam is party belong to Devendra Kula Vellalar Community, they are not related to Dalit at all, in Sangam period to till date their occupation is paddy/ agriculturalist(Kudumbar/Mallar, Kurmis in North) and worshiper of God Indra(Indira Kulam), They have rich spiritual heritages; Major temples in Tamil Nadu build by their Ancestor Pandiya, Cholas period; still they have first rights in all temple events and they are are pure supporter of Bharatiya Janatha Parties Principals, welcomed first includes recent moves "Ban on Cattle Slaughter"; this is due to respecting Cattle as part of their day to day Agricultural usage life of their community peoples and respect / prey Cows in Pongal Festivals(In ancient period, its Indra Vizha) and many;
I strongly object to use the word dalit in Puthiya Thamilagam or Dr. Krishnasamy. There are many dalit outfits include VCK / Arunthathiyar parties agree eating beef is there right in openly and thru films(Director Ranjit Films).
I request you to remove the whole contents Marked which hurt sentiments of Devendra Kula Vellalar. The link Provided [72], which purposely drag Devendra Community into Ambedkar.org; This article was made content with intention to derogate Devendrar Community and Puthiya Thamilagam.
I would appreciate your prompt understanding and quick action on removing the marked contents, any information i would happy to assist. Thank you. RajeshPandian.sa ( talk) 14:39, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
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Someone kindly take a minute to add useful and interesting content to Telaga caste, Kapu caste, balija caste pages
Use the link - http://www.kapusangam.com/history.php
Also, Telaga caste is Forward caste. Mention it in the right column — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.147.202.107 ( talk) 18:47, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
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The page says Iyer is a "caste" in the Brahmin community, which is technically incorrect. Iyer is a "sub-community" in the Brahmin community similar to Iyengars, Namboothiris, etc. The word caste has been applied here incorrectly. Xodus99 ( talk) 06:59, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
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Notable people
References
Much of this article, especially the last part, is written specifically from the Brahmin point of view and attempts to either defame Dravidian parties or defend the Brahmins from the accusations against them rather than presenting them in an objective light. For example, it mentions "Alleged" discrimination when it is perfectly well-documented that the Brahmins did not allow most non-Brahmins from entering their temples, as well as a host of other casteist terms. Can someone please fix these issues? C1MM ( talk) 01:19, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
More information needs to go into the origin section. Readers are interested in knowing about the origin of the south Indian caste called Iyers. Currently, the origin section has a link to Indo-Aryan migration theories? What is one supposed to make of it? The Indo-Aryan article speaks about Indo-Iranian people originating in the Ural mountains somewhere in Russia. So you got onto a chariot in the Central Steppes and then arrived at the Indus Valley Civilisationaa while worshipping Indra, drinking soma, burning cows and munching beef jerkiesaa? Then the article talks about Aryan invasion versus migration theory. So after conquering the IVC you thought that it would do good to demote Indra and switched to present godsaa? Iyers are scions and torch-bearers of Andronovo culturaa? Also, mention when Iyers migrated to south India as there is no information on this. And then the origin section has a link to an article on gene pool. What is this for? Are you indigenous south Indian people who took up sanskrit and vedic religion due to a fusion of cultures or are you of mixed ancestry? or are you an unaltered homogeneous gene pool from the time you arrived from Russia or wherever? I am not even going ask why most Iyers look south Indian so it is totally cool if it is the last one, just tweak the lede from Tamil origin to Tamil speaking Brahmins if it is just a linguistic affiliation. Nittawinoda ( talk) 04:35, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
To add to the lead of this article: the Tamil spellings of this name: ஐயர் and அய்யர். 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 00:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
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Traditionally, the Iyer community, which belongs to the Brahmin caste of South India, has predominantly followed a vegetarian diet, adhering to their cultural and religious beliefs. However, in recent times, there has been an observed shift in dietary practices among some members of the Iyer community, with a small but notable number choosing to include non-vegetarian food in their diets. This shift in dietary preferences is influenced by factors such as individual choices, cultural influences, and evolving societal norms. Mikey.patterson ( talk) 15:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)