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The result of the move request was: moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 ( talk) 04:24, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Somali Civil War (2006–2009) → Somalia War (2006–2009) – This article refers to Ethiopian intervention in Somalia, so there is no reason for the title to be "Somali Civil War (2006–2009)". It would be the same as War in Afghanistan (2001 – present) was named "Afghan Civil War (2001 – present)". In addition, the page was moved without prior discussion. 2804:431:B704:C7A1:F5D7:C9B2:8B16:882A ( talk) 15:44, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
This article is not only about the Ethiopian invasion of 2006, but also covers the subsequent military occupation by Ethiopia and the Islamist insurgency between 2006 and 2009. An invasion lasts a few days, whereas a military occupation can last for months or several years and be preceded by an insurgency (examples: Iraq War and Soviet–Afghan War).
Furthermore, this edition is not covered by sources that clearly cite "Ethiopian occupation of Somalia" and "Ethiopian intervention in Somali Civil War". -- Fontaine347 ( talk) 14:27, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Somalia War (2006–2009) be
renamed and moved somewhere else, with the name being decided below.
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Somalia War (2006–2009) → ? – The current title is very ambiguous, and very easy to confuse with "Somali Civil War." It also doesn't make Ethiopia's role in this war very clear - even though it's covered explicitly by English-language news outlets & human rights organizations that have talked about this, who, as far as I'm aware, don't simply call it "the Somalia War." Going by WP:CRITERIA, I believe it should be changed to something more specific. For example:
1. Ethiopian invasion of Somalia (2006–2009)
2. Ethiopian intervention in the Somali Civil War (2006–2009)
3. Ethiopian occupation of Somalia (2006–2009)
4. Ethiopian war in Somalia (2006–2009)
Or maybe something else. Alternatively, if none of these are satisfactory, we can keep the title as is. DJ ( talk) 00:49, 2 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky ( talk) 15:08, 10 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 19:55, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
As I wrote in the above section:
"This article is not only about the Ethiopian invasion of 2006, but also covers the subsequent military occupation by Ethiopia and the Islamist insurgency between 2006 and 2009. An invasion lasts a few days, whereas a military occupation can last for months or several years and be preceded by an insurgency (examples: Iraq War and Soviet–Afghan War)."
So, if you really need to change the title, options #2 and #4 are the best. -- Fontaine347 ( talk) 15:31, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
"This article refers to Ethiopian intervention in Somalia, so there is no reason for the title to be 'Somali Civil War (2006–2009)'. It would be the same as War in Afghanistan (2001 – present) was named 'Afghan Civil War (2001 – present)'."
Obviously, that was in favor of changing the page from "Somali Civil War" to Somalia War, but it could also apply here. The War in Afghanistan isn't named "American invasion of/intervention in Afghanistan". However, if this page is to be moved, I would favor #2 the most, although a separate page for #1 (the initial invasion) could be made if deemed relevant Presidentofyes12 ( talk) 13:38, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
@ Whoopsawa I removed many of your content because the way this article was structed was not appropriate at all and against Wikipedia's policies. Much of this article was (and still is) a WP:SYNTH of various different news outlets ( WP:PRIMARY). Also read WP:PRIMARYUSE, you can't just use any primary source you only have to use ones that are reputable and reliable. Wikipedia articles have to rely on material from reliable secondary sources. I've added some in the article such as Inside Al-Shabaab by Harun Maruf, you can add some of your content back if you wish and word it correct but do not remove the ones I've added. I don't mean to remove much of your work on this article, and I'm generally not too interested in this content, however when I came across this page I just noticed the wording, the excessive quotations, the reliance on unreliable new reports, it was just so bizarre, I had to step in. The portrayal of the ICU almost winning and repelling the December 2006 invasion is just unbelievable levels of revisionism and a textbook example of original research, the ICU had no answer to the Ethiopian/US weaponry and were effectively annihilated, the only place were they face significant resistance was Idaale due to Al-Shabaab's better tactics and weapons, but not the bulk of the ICU. Both Harun Maruf and Stig Jarle Hansen make this clear, these are known experts in the field, not some news article or local reports from over 20 years ago.
Secondly Al-Shabaab was undoubtedly the dominant Islamist faction in this conflict, not "ICU remnants" most of the fighters were from Al Shabaab as well as some from the ARS even during the 2006 invasion they played a big role. You shouldn't add ICU remnants into the infobox especially as the first one mentioned. You didn't add any source for that claim, the citations you've provided offer no link or access to the source. Do you have any secondary source supporting this claim? Socialwave597 ( talk) 13:36, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
This resulted in a blitzkrieg, in which the most inexperienced court fighters were badly mauled by the more professional Ethiopian forces. Fighting against an enemy with armor and air superiority, the Sharia Courts and Al-Shabaab forces quickly collapsed. On 28 December, Ethiopian and government forces marched into parts of Mogadishu unopposed. The fact that many of the Sharia Court leaders were outside the country while Al-Shabaab was fighting would create a split between Al-Shabaab and the rest of the Courts
In the first of two big battles, ICU fighters, many of them university students, clashed with Ethiopian troops in Daynunay, a former military base about twenty kilometers east of Baidoa. Initially, enthusiastic militias pushed to within eight kilometers of the TFG stronghold. But within four days the tide turned, as the Ethiopian regular army showed its superior training and military hardware. The ICU had nothing to counter artillery strikes on its front lines. When fighters tried to charge the Ethiopian lines, they were annihilated.
Prior to this attack, the ICU fought against Ethiopian forces three times in open battle. Standing armies generally defeat irregular forces in such situations, but the ICU won all three encounters. The radical group may have won a fourth victory over the Ethiopians yesterday by capturing the town of Idale, about seventy kilometers south of Baidoa. Jibreel, however, contends that the transitional government actually maintains control of that town.
Despite all mythology in Somalia, Shabaab remained in the back seat of the anti-Ethiopian insurgency from 2006 to late 2007. During this period the organization was building up capabilities, conducting assassinations, suicide attacks and road bombings inside Somalia, but at the same time refraining from large scale attacks. Other parts of the anti-Ethiopian opposition played a much larger role in the initial fighting, especially other remains of the Islamic courts.
Armed groups in Somalia are many and varied. They include remnants of the Islamic Courts Union (ICU), supporters of the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS), and various factions of the Shabab (“youth”) militia – formerly young ICU fighters.
With Ethiopian military support, the TFG President and other leaders officially moved to Mogadishu in January 2007, but most government ministers and the Transitional Federal Parliament remained in Baidoa. The TFG faced increasing armed opposition from remnants of the Islamic Courts and was unable to establish control or security in the capital.
The intervention of Ethiopia, which is distrusted by many Somalis, triggered an insurgency involving remnants of the Islamic Courts Union and members of the Hawiye clan
Many Islamic Courts’ Union fighters are still licking their wounds from the fighting with Ethiopian forces, but they remain bold enough to venture out into the streets.They have also become increasingly confident in recent months.
The current transitional government, backed by Ethiopian troops, is facing an armed campaign led by the Islamic Courts’ Union that has killed thousands of civilians.
The ICU and several other anti-government groups and splinter groups still remain in the Horn of Africa nation.
Despite all mythology in Somalia, Shabaab remained in the back seat of the anti-Ethiopian insurgency from 2006 to late 2007. During this period the organization was building up capabilities, conducting assassinations, suicide attacks and road bombings inside Somalia, but at the same time refraining from large scale attacks. Other parts of the anti-Ethiopian opposition played a much larger role in the initial fighting, especially other remains of the Islamic courts.
By mid-2006, the UIC consolidated power and controlled seven out of ten major regions in South Central Somalia. Within the unified courts a small group of young Somalis formed that, at the time, were “bit player[s] . . . largely serving as a strong-arm militia enforcing [UIC] judgments.”32
Malcolm Nance, a twenty-five-year veteran of the US intelligence community’s Combating Terrorism Program, spent the bulk of his professional career working covert ops in the Middle East and Africa. He studied the rise of al Qaeda and al Shabab and was familiar with the leadership of both organizations. Nance told me he believed that the United States dramatically mishandled its counterterrorism approach in Somalia. Prior to the rumors of an Ethiopian intervention, he said, al “Shabab was a sideline organization, they were fringe.”
Al-Shabab, he asserted, had very little backing from Somalia’s biggest clans and were minor players compared to the more powerful Courts. “They were out numbered by those within the Courts who had positive agendas,” he said. “But I can say the US actions helped boost them.”
"Armed groups in Somalia are many and varied. They include remnants of the Islamic Courts Union (ICU), supporters of the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS), and various factions of the Shabab (“youth”) militia – formerly young ICU fighters."
Al-Shabaab was going to carve out its own path and not be part of a larger insurgent movement. In September 2007, members of the Islamic Courts Union, Somali diaspora, and secular Somali leaders gathered in Eritrea’s capital and formed a new group, the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia, or ARS. The stated goal of the ARS was to resist the Ethiopians—Eritrea’s chief enemy, not incidentally. But Al-Shabaab swiftly rejected the new alliance, accusing it of “selling short” the larger goal of jihad. The group maintained its stance even as other insurgents in Somalia—the Muqawama groups—gradually aligned themselves with the ARS. The loose Shabaab/Muqawama military alliance grew strained, especially after June 2008, when the United Nations opened a dialogue with the ARS in an attempt to bring it together with the Somali government.
At a press conference he held in Jowhar town, Shaykh Dahir Addow Alasow, who is one of the Islamic Courts officials based in Shabeellaha Dhexe Region[south-central Somalia], said that the peace agreement the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia [ARS] and the federal government reached in Djibouti does not concern them. Shaykh Dahir said the Djibouti agreement was intended to divide the power of Islamic Courts fighters..."We neither support Shaykh Sharif nor Shaykh Hasan Dahir [leaders of the two rival ARS wings]. We support the Book of Allah and the sunnah of the Prophet," Shaykh Dahir Alasow said, in response to a question regarding which of the two leaders of the ARS factions based in Djibouti and Eritrea they supported.
Al-Shabab has said they are saddened by the fighting which took place in Balcad, Middle Shabeelle [southern Somalia] last Saturday [10th of January 2009] and that efforts are underway to resolve the issues that sparked the hostilities...heavy fighting between Al-Shabab fighters and those of the Union of Islamic Courts [UIC] broke out in Balcad last Saturday
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
War in Somalia (2006–2009) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 100 days |
War in Somalia (2006–2009) was a Warfare good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 ( talk) 04:24, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Somali Civil War (2006–2009) → Somalia War (2006–2009) – This article refers to Ethiopian intervention in Somalia, so there is no reason for the title to be "Somali Civil War (2006–2009)". It would be the same as War in Afghanistan (2001 – present) was named "Afghan Civil War (2001 – present)". In addition, the page was moved without prior discussion. 2804:431:B704:C7A1:F5D7:C9B2:8B16:882A ( talk) 15:44, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
This article is not only about the Ethiopian invasion of 2006, but also covers the subsequent military occupation by Ethiopia and the Islamist insurgency between 2006 and 2009. An invasion lasts a few days, whereas a military occupation can last for months or several years and be preceded by an insurgency (examples: Iraq War and Soviet–Afghan War).
Furthermore, this edition is not covered by sources that clearly cite "Ethiopian occupation of Somalia" and "Ethiopian intervention in Somali Civil War". -- Fontaine347 ( talk) 14:27, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Somalia War (2006–2009) be
renamed and moved somewhere else, with the name being decided below.
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Somalia War (2006–2009) → ? – The current title is very ambiguous, and very easy to confuse with "Somali Civil War." It also doesn't make Ethiopia's role in this war very clear - even though it's covered explicitly by English-language news outlets & human rights organizations that have talked about this, who, as far as I'm aware, don't simply call it "the Somalia War." Going by WP:CRITERIA, I believe it should be changed to something more specific. For example:
1. Ethiopian invasion of Somalia (2006–2009)
2. Ethiopian intervention in the Somali Civil War (2006–2009)
3. Ethiopian occupation of Somalia (2006–2009)
4. Ethiopian war in Somalia (2006–2009)
Or maybe something else. Alternatively, if none of these are satisfactory, we can keep the title as is. DJ ( talk) 00:49, 2 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky ( talk) 15:08, 10 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 19:55, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
As I wrote in the above section:
"This article is not only about the Ethiopian invasion of 2006, but also covers the subsequent military occupation by Ethiopia and the Islamist insurgency between 2006 and 2009. An invasion lasts a few days, whereas a military occupation can last for months or several years and be preceded by an insurgency (examples: Iraq War and Soviet–Afghan War)."
So, if you really need to change the title, options #2 and #4 are the best. -- Fontaine347 ( talk) 15:31, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
"This article refers to Ethiopian intervention in Somalia, so there is no reason for the title to be 'Somali Civil War (2006–2009)'. It would be the same as War in Afghanistan (2001 – present) was named 'Afghan Civil War (2001 – present)'."
Obviously, that was in favor of changing the page from "Somali Civil War" to Somalia War, but it could also apply here. The War in Afghanistan isn't named "American invasion of/intervention in Afghanistan". However, if this page is to be moved, I would favor #2 the most, although a separate page for #1 (the initial invasion) could be made if deemed relevant Presidentofyes12 ( talk) 13:38, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
@ Whoopsawa I removed many of your content because the way this article was structed was not appropriate at all and against Wikipedia's policies. Much of this article was (and still is) a WP:SYNTH of various different news outlets ( WP:PRIMARY). Also read WP:PRIMARYUSE, you can't just use any primary source you only have to use ones that are reputable and reliable. Wikipedia articles have to rely on material from reliable secondary sources. I've added some in the article such as Inside Al-Shabaab by Harun Maruf, you can add some of your content back if you wish and word it correct but do not remove the ones I've added. I don't mean to remove much of your work on this article, and I'm generally not too interested in this content, however when I came across this page I just noticed the wording, the excessive quotations, the reliance on unreliable new reports, it was just so bizarre, I had to step in. The portrayal of the ICU almost winning and repelling the December 2006 invasion is just unbelievable levels of revisionism and a textbook example of original research, the ICU had no answer to the Ethiopian/US weaponry and were effectively annihilated, the only place were they face significant resistance was Idaale due to Al-Shabaab's better tactics and weapons, but not the bulk of the ICU. Both Harun Maruf and Stig Jarle Hansen make this clear, these are known experts in the field, not some news article or local reports from over 20 years ago.
Secondly Al-Shabaab was undoubtedly the dominant Islamist faction in this conflict, not "ICU remnants" most of the fighters were from Al Shabaab as well as some from the ARS even during the 2006 invasion they played a big role. You shouldn't add ICU remnants into the infobox especially as the first one mentioned. You didn't add any source for that claim, the citations you've provided offer no link or access to the source. Do you have any secondary source supporting this claim? Socialwave597 ( talk) 13:36, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
This resulted in a blitzkrieg, in which the most inexperienced court fighters were badly mauled by the more professional Ethiopian forces. Fighting against an enemy with armor and air superiority, the Sharia Courts and Al-Shabaab forces quickly collapsed. On 28 December, Ethiopian and government forces marched into parts of Mogadishu unopposed. The fact that many of the Sharia Court leaders were outside the country while Al-Shabaab was fighting would create a split between Al-Shabaab and the rest of the Courts
In the first of two big battles, ICU fighters, many of them university students, clashed with Ethiopian troops in Daynunay, a former military base about twenty kilometers east of Baidoa. Initially, enthusiastic militias pushed to within eight kilometers of the TFG stronghold. But within four days the tide turned, as the Ethiopian regular army showed its superior training and military hardware. The ICU had nothing to counter artillery strikes on its front lines. When fighters tried to charge the Ethiopian lines, they were annihilated.
Prior to this attack, the ICU fought against Ethiopian forces three times in open battle. Standing armies generally defeat irregular forces in such situations, but the ICU won all three encounters. The radical group may have won a fourth victory over the Ethiopians yesterday by capturing the town of Idale, about seventy kilometers south of Baidoa. Jibreel, however, contends that the transitional government actually maintains control of that town.
Despite all mythology in Somalia, Shabaab remained in the back seat of the anti-Ethiopian insurgency from 2006 to late 2007. During this period the organization was building up capabilities, conducting assassinations, suicide attacks and road bombings inside Somalia, but at the same time refraining from large scale attacks. Other parts of the anti-Ethiopian opposition played a much larger role in the initial fighting, especially other remains of the Islamic courts.
Armed groups in Somalia are many and varied. They include remnants of the Islamic Courts Union (ICU), supporters of the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS), and various factions of the Shabab (“youth”) militia – formerly young ICU fighters.
With Ethiopian military support, the TFG President and other leaders officially moved to Mogadishu in January 2007, but most government ministers and the Transitional Federal Parliament remained in Baidoa. The TFG faced increasing armed opposition from remnants of the Islamic Courts and was unable to establish control or security in the capital.
The intervention of Ethiopia, which is distrusted by many Somalis, triggered an insurgency involving remnants of the Islamic Courts Union and members of the Hawiye clan
Many Islamic Courts’ Union fighters are still licking their wounds from the fighting with Ethiopian forces, but they remain bold enough to venture out into the streets.They have also become increasingly confident in recent months.
The current transitional government, backed by Ethiopian troops, is facing an armed campaign led by the Islamic Courts’ Union that has killed thousands of civilians.
The ICU and several other anti-government groups and splinter groups still remain in the Horn of Africa nation.
Despite all mythology in Somalia, Shabaab remained in the back seat of the anti-Ethiopian insurgency from 2006 to late 2007. During this period the organization was building up capabilities, conducting assassinations, suicide attacks and road bombings inside Somalia, but at the same time refraining from large scale attacks. Other parts of the anti-Ethiopian opposition played a much larger role in the initial fighting, especially other remains of the Islamic courts.
By mid-2006, the UIC consolidated power and controlled seven out of ten major regions in South Central Somalia. Within the unified courts a small group of young Somalis formed that, at the time, were “bit player[s] . . . largely serving as a strong-arm militia enforcing [UIC] judgments.”32
Malcolm Nance, a twenty-five-year veteran of the US intelligence community’s Combating Terrorism Program, spent the bulk of his professional career working covert ops in the Middle East and Africa. He studied the rise of al Qaeda and al Shabab and was familiar with the leadership of both organizations. Nance told me he believed that the United States dramatically mishandled its counterterrorism approach in Somalia. Prior to the rumors of an Ethiopian intervention, he said, al “Shabab was a sideline organization, they were fringe.”
Al-Shabab, he asserted, had very little backing from Somalia’s biggest clans and were minor players compared to the more powerful Courts. “They were out numbered by those within the Courts who had positive agendas,” he said. “But I can say the US actions helped boost them.”
"Armed groups in Somalia are many and varied. They include remnants of the Islamic Courts Union (ICU), supporters of the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS), and various factions of the Shabab (“youth”) militia – formerly young ICU fighters."
Al-Shabaab was going to carve out its own path and not be part of a larger insurgent movement. In September 2007, members of the Islamic Courts Union, Somali diaspora, and secular Somali leaders gathered in Eritrea’s capital and formed a new group, the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia, or ARS. The stated goal of the ARS was to resist the Ethiopians—Eritrea’s chief enemy, not incidentally. But Al-Shabaab swiftly rejected the new alliance, accusing it of “selling short” the larger goal of jihad. The group maintained its stance even as other insurgents in Somalia—the Muqawama groups—gradually aligned themselves with the ARS. The loose Shabaab/Muqawama military alliance grew strained, especially after June 2008, when the United Nations opened a dialogue with the ARS in an attempt to bring it together with the Somali government.
At a press conference he held in Jowhar town, Shaykh Dahir Addow Alasow, who is one of the Islamic Courts officials based in Shabeellaha Dhexe Region[south-central Somalia], said that the peace agreement the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia [ARS] and the federal government reached in Djibouti does not concern them. Shaykh Dahir said the Djibouti agreement was intended to divide the power of Islamic Courts fighters..."We neither support Shaykh Sharif nor Shaykh Hasan Dahir [leaders of the two rival ARS wings]. We support the Book of Allah and the sunnah of the Prophet," Shaykh Dahir Alasow said, in response to a question regarding which of the two leaders of the ARS factions based in Djibouti and Eritrea they supported.
Al-Shabab has said they are saddened by the fighting which took place in Balcad, Middle Shabeelle [southern Somalia] last Saturday [10th of January 2009] and that efforts are underway to resolve the issues that sparked the hostilities...heavy fighting between Al-Shabab fighters and those of the Union of Islamic Courts [UIC] broke out in Balcad last Saturday