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On the subject of Box Tunnel and Brunel's birthday...
R. Angus Buchanan writes in Brunel: The Life and Times of Isambard Kingdom Brunel ISBN 1-85285-331-X (p.269, n.48):
On the other hand, it is asserted at http://venus.soci.niu.edu/~archives/TOMPAINE/feb99/0023.html that it impossible to guarantee the effect on a particular calendar day, because the angle at which the sun rises on a given date varies slightly with the cycle of leap years.
It is also asserted at http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/news/tunnels.html (about two-thirds of the way down the page) that Brunel failed to account for atmospheric refraction and the effect is visible a few days too early. (This page is mainly concerned with another story: that there is a junction within the tunnel leading to a secret bunker.)
Buchanan concludes (ibid., p.226):
In light of this, judging the story to be a "myth" may well be too harsh; I'm not sure what the entry should say, though. Box Tunnel is only ten miles from me, but April is months away as I write and I'm not keen on standing in the middle of a high-speed railway line at any time of the year, so I'm not going to go and check.
-- rbrwr
Stuff from the Great Western article which would be better merged into this article
I have checked the above information against Buchanan's biography and have incorporated it in a corrected and substantially rewritten form. -- rbrwr
Somebody has placed Isambard Kingdon Brunel is the British Inventors category. I question this since IKB invented nothing, he was a civil engineer and designer of ships. His father Marc Isambard was the inventor and had patents to his name. Any comments before I remove it? Apwoolrich 14:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Brunel designed a timber-framed bridge over the Parrett on the B&E line at Somerset Bridge. a mile or two SE of Bridgwater. The telescopc bridge serving the Bridgater Docks, mentioned in an earlier edit was not designed and built until after Brunel's death. Apwoolrich 19:24, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
In the opening para I have removed mention of the broad gauge since that appears two sections below, and the changeover on the GWR line anyway occured after IKB's death. I have replaced this by an acknowledgement that not all his innovations were successful. I have added mention of the bridges. Op. Deo 19:10, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Many thanks for your help with wording. I want to nit pick over the following -
Op. Deo 09:13, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
I've put in the changes suggested. If you can see any other possible improvements, feel free to make them right on the page. - Lommer | talk 01:25, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
In the 1980's there was a short animated film shown on BBC2 (UK) that covered the life and achivements of IKB. I used to have a copy of it but have since lost it. Does anyone else remember this?-- Mattyw 11:28, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
I am looking for a show that was on the Science Channel about a year ago called "Men of Iron"
It was a 2 part series I believe that chronicled his life I can not find it on the Discovery Channel Website Store or any torrent sites. Anyone know where I might buy or download a copy? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ghakamo (
talk •
contribs)
18:11, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I have moved it to Template:Isambard Kingdom Brunel timeline. Does anyone know why links in the middle of text do not render properly? See the template talk page for an example, and compare List of popes (graphical). It seems that links at the start of the text are OK (it even works if you add a newline before the link with a ~) but not otherwise. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
"Two severe incidents of flooding halted work for long periods, killing several workers and badly injuring the younger Brunel. The latter incident, in 1828, killed Collins and Ball, the two most senior miners, and Brunel himself narrowly escaped death; a water break-in hurled him from a tunnelling platform, knocking him unconscious, and he was washed up to the other end of the tunnel by the surge"
Brunel was never knighted, but he was voted the second most influential Briton of all time? Even Sean Connery got knighted! :) Anyone know what kept him from being knighted? -- Fxer 01:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I was shocked to find that a couple of minutes ago this page was covered in images of genitalia and had some kind of attack on Jimbo Wales at the top of the page. I must say I am rather surprised that a featured article would not be temporarily suspended from editing so that this very thing cannot happen. Comments? GBMorris 01:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia does a great job, but today's article leaves me with an unanswered question: where does Mr. Brunel's name come from? (Well, obviously it's a combination of his father's and mother's last names, but that's only a very partial explanation.)
I'll bet I'm not the only one with the same question.
Isambard is his father's middle name. According to this page it is not really an unusual name and has an ancient lineage - Isambard developed from Germanic names like "Isanbert"´and "Eisenbarth" which mean "shining/glittering like iron/metal". English surnames can be anything so "Kingdom" is not that surprising, here is a page on its apparent Cornish origins. "Brunel" is related to old words for "brown" - see this page Bwithh 07:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi! The subject and the way it is portrayed is very interesting. BUT. This must be the worst witten featured article I have ever come across. Things seems to be thrown in at almost random fashion, one-liners are all over the place, the article lacks continuity and integrty - a lot of things are mentioned, but they do not seem to fit into one big picture. Sorry for commenting badly on this, but I think this is the truth. A lot of effort must have gone into writing it, I acknowledge that it's not easy to write a comprehensive yet relatively short article about such a great man. Well, go on boys/girls, just clean it up! (and yes, I will help) Msoos 08:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
The article focusses on Brunel's engineering achievements. However, Brunel was a colourful character outside of work - staying married but leaving his wife in the UK while he worked in France and took a mistress. A little more information about the man himself would help balance the article, and remind readers that even heroes have feet of clay ( Winston Churchill included). AMe 09:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I was taken by the following phrase in the article: "...in this case Brunel's failure was principally one of economics..." Well, that's a pretty damn big failure for a commercial engineer. Engineers are supposed to make money for their backers. I wonder what response I might get to the suggestion that Brunel was a great industrial designer but a lousy engineer? PS. And maybe also a great salesman.
There is a contradiction with a statement in the article:
And the comment in the picture itself, which states:
Where is the error? -- Nova77 20:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure the BBC vote should feature so prominently - it's widely believed that Brunel's high ranking was due to extensive campaigning by students from Brunel University. It was certainly a surprise to see him ranked so high. -- Auximines 20:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
21:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)I find it shocking that Brunel could be placed second and Joseph Bazalgette, who virtually founded modern civil engineering in Britain, cleaned up the River Thames, designed and executed the City of London's massive sewer system relieving the metropolis of the scourge of frequent epidemics of water-borne diseases, and creator of many of the great parks, streets, and housing projects of London, is left out. Anyone ever hear of the Victoria Embankment? How about his role in the vast expansion of the use of Portland cement in civil engineering, and the concepts of quality control that accompanied it?
The 2nd paragraph of the article credits Brunel with the "development of the first propeller-driven steamship," which is incorrect. [4] Obviously some qualifiers need to be added. Opie 23:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
In the Atmospheric Engine section whoever did the currency conversion got it horribly wrong. Actually, does converting the currency serve any purpose? I vote for removing the conversions (they're wrong anyway). GrahamBould 08:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I might not be reading this closely enough, but it seems that in the forward for isambard kingdom brunel he is accredited for inventing the first sub-river tunnel in britain, but then later in the text it sites his father as the inventor of that. could someone figure out/clarify exactly who was the first to make the tunnel? Marc Brunel or his son?
Great Eastern was built at John Scott Russell's Napier Yard in London, and after two trial trips in 1859, set forth the following year on her maiden voyage from Southampton to New York on 17 June 1860 with Mr. and Mrs. Daniel Gooch, Norman Scott Russell (Scott Russell's son), Alexander Lyman Holley and Zerah Colburn among the passengers. John Scott Russell, who had intended to sail on the maiden voyage, remained at home. Holley travelled as one of Scott Russell's personal friends. Norman Scott Russell stayed with Holley in New York for a few weeks.
Who are all these people? Why are they listed here? Most of them don't even have links. Is this really necessary - if so please state why in the article, otherwise most of this paragraph can be removed. -- HappyDog 14:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
As there is now a template featuring (some of) Brunel's works ({{ Brunel}}), would it be appropriate to add this to the article. It would replace at least three-quarters of the 'See also' section.
If to be applied, where? Traditionally it would go at the bottom of the article, but that's a long way from 'See also'.
EdJogg 10:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't see any references in the article to the many accidents on the GWR, especially the Sonning Cutting accident, when a goods train was derailed by a landslip in 1842. His views on safety were reactionary, and he opposed the work of the Railway Inspectorate in the early days of development. Shouldn't they be included to make a balanced article? Peterlewis 22:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
The images could use some attention. The images in Illnesses and death of Brunel are spread out with too little text. Also, the images in the article could be staggered between left and right to vary the look of the page.-- Ianmacm 20:28, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
For a featured article, this section is disjointed and made up of bullet points dealing with unrelated bits and pieces. It would be better to smooth out the section by rewriting it in prose style. (see also WP:Trivia) -- Ianmacm 06:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Image:UKIBSP 2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
On the subject of Box Tunnel and Brunel's birthday...
R. Angus Buchanan writes in Brunel: The Life and Times of Isambard Kingdom Brunel ISBN 1-85285-331-X (p.269, n.48):
On the other hand, it is asserted at http://venus.soci.niu.edu/~archives/TOMPAINE/feb99/0023.html that it impossible to guarantee the effect on a particular calendar day, because the angle at which the sun rises on a given date varies slightly with the cycle of leap years.
It is also asserted at http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/news/tunnels.html (about two-thirds of the way down the page) that Brunel failed to account for atmospheric refraction and the effect is visible a few days too early. (This page is mainly concerned with another story: that there is a junction within the tunnel leading to a secret bunker.)
Buchanan concludes (ibid., p.226):
In light of this, judging the story to be a "myth" may well be too harsh; I'm not sure what the entry should say, though. Box Tunnel is only ten miles from me, but April is months away as I write and I'm not keen on standing in the middle of a high-speed railway line at any time of the year, so I'm not going to go and check.
-- rbrwr
Stuff from the Great Western article which would be better merged into this article
I have checked the above information against Buchanan's biography and have incorporated it in a corrected and substantially rewritten form. -- rbrwr
Somebody has placed Isambard Kingdon Brunel is the British Inventors category. I question this since IKB invented nothing, he was a civil engineer and designer of ships. His father Marc Isambard was the inventor and had patents to his name. Any comments before I remove it? Apwoolrich 14:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Brunel designed a timber-framed bridge over the Parrett on the B&E line at Somerset Bridge. a mile or two SE of Bridgwater. The telescopc bridge serving the Bridgater Docks, mentioned in an earlier edit was not designed and built until after Brunel's death. Apwoolrich 19:24, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
In the opening para I have removed mention of the broad gauge since that appears two sections below, and the changeover on the GWR line anyway occured after IKB's death. I have replaced this by an acknowledgement that not all his innovations were successful. I have added mention of the bridges. Op. Deo 19:10, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Many thanks for your help with wording. I want to nit pick over the following -
Op. Deo 09:13, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
I've put in the changes suggested. If you can see any other possible improvements, feel free to make them right on the page. - Lommer | talk 01:25, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
In the 1980's there was a short animated film shown on BBC2 (UK) that covered the life and achivements of IKB. I used to have a copy of it but have since lost it. Does anyone else remember this?-- Mattyw 11:28, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
I am looking for a show that was on the Science Channel about a year ago called "Men of Iron"
It was a 2 part series I believe that chronicled his life I can not find it on the Discovery Channel Website Store or any torrent sites. Anyone know where I might buy or download a copy? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ghakamo (
talk •
contribs)
18:11, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I have moved it to Template:Isambard Kingdom Brunel timeline. Does anyone know why links in the middle of text do not render properly? See the template talk page for an example, and compare List of popes (graphical). It seems that links at the start of the text are OK (it even works if you add a newline before the link with a ~) but not otherwise. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
"Two severe incidents of flooding halted work for long periods, killing several workers and badly injuring the younger Brunel. The latter incident, in 1828, killed Collins and Ball, the two most senior miners, and Brunel himself narrowly escaped death; a water break-in hurled him from a tunnelling platform, knocking him unconscious, and he was washed up to the other end of the tunnel by the surge"
Brunel was never knighted, but he was voted the second most influential Briton of all time? Even Sean Connery got knighted! :) Anyone know what kept him from being knighted? -- Fxer 01:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I was shocked to find that a couple of minutes ago this page was covered in images of genitalia and had some kind of attack on Jimbo Wales at the top of the page. I must say I am rather surprised that a featured article would not be temporarily suspended from editing so that this very thing cannot happen. Comments? GBMorris 01:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia does a great job, but today's article leaves me with an unanswered question: where does Mr. Brunel's name come from? (Well, obviously it's a combination of his father's and mother's last names, but that's only a very partial explanation.)
I'll bet I'm not the only one with the same question.
Isambard is his father's middle name. According to this page it is not really an unusual name and has an ancient lineage - Isambard developed from Germanic names like "Isanbert"´and "Eisenbarth" which mean "shining/glittering like iron/metal". English surnames can be anything so "Kingdom" is not that surprising, here is a page on its apparent Cornish origins. "Brunel" is related to old words for "brown" - see this page Bwithh 07:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi! The subject and the way it is portrayed is very interesting. BUT. This must be the worst witten featured article I have ever come across. Things seems to be thrown in at almost random fashion, one-liners are all over the place, the article lacks continuity and integrty - a lot of things are mentioned, but they do not seem to fit into one big picture. Sorry for commenting badly on this, but I think this is the truth. A lot of effort must have gone into writing it, I acknowledge that it's not easy to write a comprehensive yet relatively short article about such a great man. Well, go on boys/girls, just clean it up! (and yes, I will help) Msoos 08:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
The article focusses on Brunel's engineering achievements. However, Brunel was a colourful character outside of work - staying married but leaving his wife in the UK while he worked in France and took a mistress. A little more information about the man himself would help balance the article, and remind readers that even heroes have feet of clay ( Winston Churchill included). AMe 09:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I was taken by the following phrase in the article: "...in this case Brunel's failure was principally one of economics..." Well, that's a pretty damn big failure for a commercial engineer. Engineers are supposed to make money for their backers. I wonder what response I might get to the suggestion that Brunel was a great industrial designer but a lousy engineer? PS. And maybe also a great salesman.
There is a contradiction with a statement in the article:
And the comment in the picture itself, which states:
Where is the error? -- Nova77 20:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure the BBC vote should feature so prominently - it's widely believed that Brunel's high ranking was due to extensive campaigning by students from Brunel University. It was certainly a surprise to see him ranked so high. -- Auximines 20:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
21:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)I find it shocking that Brunel could be placed second and Joseph Bazalgette, who virtually founded modern civil engineering in Britain, cleaned up the River Thames, designed and executed the City of London's massive sewer system relieving the metropolis of the scourge of frequent epidemics of water-borne diseases, and creator of many of the great parks, streets, and housing projects of London, is left out. Anyone ever hear of the Victoria Embankment? How about his role in the vast expansion of the use of Portland cement in civil engineering, and the concepts of quality control that accompanied it?
The 2nd paragraph of the article credits Brunel with the "development of the first propeller-driven steamship," which is incorrect. [4] Obviously some qualifiers need to be added. Opie 23:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
In the Atmospheric Engine section whoever did the currency conversion got it horribly wrong. Actually, does converting the currency serve any purpose? I vote for removing the conversions (they're wrong anyway). GrahamBould 08:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I might not be reading this closely enough, but it seems that in the forward for isambard kingdom brunel he is accredited for inventing the first sub-river tunnel in britain, but then later in the text it sites his father as the inventor of that. could someone figure out/clarify exactly who was the first to make the tunnel? Marc Brunel or his son?
Great Eastern was built at John Scott Russell's Napier Yard in London, and after two trial trips in 1859, set forth the following year on her maiden voyage from Southampton to New York on 17 June 1860 with Mr. and Mrs. Daniel Gooch, Norman Scott Russell (Scott Russell's son), Alexander Lyman Holley and Zerah Colburn among the passengers. John Scott Russell, who had intended to sail on the maiden voyage, remained at home. Holley travelled as one of Scott Russell's personal friends. Norman Scott Russell stayed with Holley in New York for a few weeks.
Who are all these people? Why are they listed here? Most of them don't even have links. Is this really necessary - if so please state why in the article, otherwise most of this paragraph can be removed. -- HappyDog 14:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
As there is now a template featuring (some of) Brunel's works ({{ Brunel}}), would it be appropriate to add this to the article. It would replace at least three-quarters of the 'See also' section.
If to be applied, where? Traditionally it would go at the bottom of the article, but that's a long way from 'See also'.
EdJogg 10:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't see any references in the article to the many accidents on the GWR, especially the Sonning Cutting accident, when a goods train was derailed by a landslip in 1842. His views on safety were reactionary, and he opposed the work of the Railway Inspectorate in the early days of development. Shouldn't they be included to make a balanced article? Peterlewis 22:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
The images could use some attention. The images in Illnesses and death of Brunel are spread out with too little text. Also, the images in the article could be staggered between left and right to vary the look of the page.-- Ianmacm 20:28, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
For a featured article, this section is disjointed and made up of bullet points dealing with unrelated bits and pieces. It would be better to smooth out the section by rewriting it in prose style. (see also WP:Trivia) -- Ianmacm 06:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Image:UKIBSP 2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |