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![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of Irving Plaza was copied or moved into Irving Place Theatre with this edit on 07-30-2011. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
This article needs a serious rewrite, it reads like a review/promotion. 24.151.79.108 00:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It's now called The Fillmore New York at Irving Plaza, should it be moved? -- AW 17:44, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm wondering if the Select Performers section is wikiworthy. Thoughts? Sabrebattletank ( talk) 00:27, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm dubious. If they had dates and refs attached, perhaps on a separate page. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 02:43, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
I have twice reverted major edits by Capwilly on the basis that they remove sourced content and appear otherwise to be OR. I have written twice on his talk page explaining. I've had no response. He just made the edit for the third time. I do not wish to get into an edit war. Anyone else care to revert / comment? Wwwhatsup ( talk) 18:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I do see there's some background
here.
Wwwhatsup (
talk)
22:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Capwilly <capt.willy@y****.com> wrote:
> Not sure if you got this because I still do not see any reference to the facts which I brought up. My edits to the Irving Plaza article are accurate and can be backed up, not only by the following references, but also by Eugene Kaleniak the President of the Polish War Veterens Association which owned and controlled the space.
The New York Times,
The Village Voice,
Spin ,
The Aquarian ,
Interview ,
New York Magazine ,
CNN,
Timeout Magazine, and
Newsweek. I would like to insert these Refs but I just don't know how to do it. Ref #7 says that Andrew Rasiej started Irving Plaza in the 70's which is rubbish since he didn't have anything to do with the place until 1990 and in the 70's he was only a little boy. The same article referenced Heinrich Conreid as managing the venue in 1993 when in fact he died in 1903! Ref #8 from the Village Voice describes Chuck and Andy Dunckley during their run in the place which was 1983 to 1984 but says nothin!
> g about Big Audio Dynamite. Big Audio Dynamite played there for 16 nights in April of 1987, was promoted by Ron Delsener, Chris Williamson,and WKTU. Chuck and company were long gone. The venue was controlled by Rock Hotel Presents from 1986 to 1989. Ref #9 is written by some fanzine kid and only talks about the concert at Irving Plaza but does not mention Chuck, Andy,etc.,
> because they had nothing to do with it. How is this stuff admissable?
> Please, if you will, copy this email to the fellow trying to get in touch with me who originally complained about my edits. I just don't yet know how to reply and please help me get un-blocked so I can get this straight.
> Thanks kindly,
> Capwilly
response:
Hi
I already made a couple of adjustments to the article. I think your point that the Homme reference is unreliable is sound, but you have to accept the further point that you can't change referenced material in Wikipedia without at least giving some kind of justification in your edit summary and, if someone disputes it, taking to the talk page. If a reliable source, or consensus, can't be reached then the material will have to bdropped from the article. In my opinion you are going to have a very hard job sourcing that Williamson promoted at Irving since, to my knowledge, he never did - only at The Ritz during this period. The correct way to proceed, if you are uncertain as to how to handle things like refs, again is to go the talk page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Fillmore_New_York_at_Irving_Plaza and edit it just like you would an article, and remember to sign your comments by writing Wwwhatsup ( talk) 00:23, 29 March 2010 (UTC) which will automatically time and date stamp them. It's not rocket science.
If, as you assert, there are supporting references in the NY Times then they should show up in a search of their archives. For instance http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/23/nyregion/coping-from-polish-vets-to-punk-in-only-30-years.html does indeed have some good information.
j
Wwwhatsup (
talk)
00:23, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
> Without sending you a ton of stuff this article verifies all.
Please find attached the following - Daily News feature 12/25/88 pg.24 by David Browne - which verifies all. A) That Chuck Terzila, Frank Gallagher, and Andy Dunckley were long gone from Irving Plaza in 1985 and in fact according to Eugene Kaleniak, the President of the Polish War Veterens Association which owned the building, were in bankruptcy and had caused the venue to be dark for a season. B.) That Chris Williamson/Rock Hotel Presents installed sound and lights and took control of the venue as the promoting entity. C.) That Chris Williamson/Rock Hotel Presents promoted B.A.D. in April of 1987. D.) That Chris Williamson/Rock Hotel Presents promoted the ‘Farewell to Irving Plaza’ concert with The Ramones on Dec. 31st 1988. E.) That Chris Williamson/ Rock Hotel Presents continued it’s arrangement with Irving Plaza through 1989 with ongoing projects. Capwilly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.205.99.59 ( talk) 18:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
I guess you didn't get my last email. Hopefully you will and please add to it the fact that the NYTimes article you use as a reference by Robert Lipsyte is absolutely incorrect with his info about Andrew Raiseij and Irving Plaza. Mr. Lipsyte has instructed me to correct this misinformation which he included in his article by contacting the current Ombudsman of The New York Times to set the past write. ( and again, if you folks hadn't blocked me, I would have by now figured out how to include the many references which I have to back up my edits)
Capwilly (
talk)
19:04, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Just got this message. Thanks very much for your help. Were you around in 1986? Just as an example is the famous 86' New Year's Eve Dictators show where at the stroke of midnight they threw 100's of White Castle hamburgers in to the audience. There were over 50 major Rock Hotel concerts at Irving Plaza through the years and Chuck Terzila. Frank Gallagher, and Andy Dunckley were long gone, most particularly when B.A.D occurred during April of 87'. The article they reference was written by Christgau in 85' talking about his memory of those guys at Irving in 84' and should only be admissable to prove that they were there in that time frame, if I may be so bold to offer. Thanks again, Capwilly Capwilly ( talk) 19:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
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help)Wwwhatsup ( talk) 22:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
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help)Comment: - very good as far as it goes. I note no mention of name 'Rock Hotel' as promoter. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 21:35, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Wwwhatsup: Thanks for the follow up. In the beginning at Irving Plaza since the shows booked were so diametric from the Rock Hotel Shows at the Ritz ( see New York Magazine Dec. 22-29 issue 1986 " The Powers that will be" pg.90 by Amy Virshop ) we felt that there should be some deliniation in the way that they were promoted and so searched for a slightly different angle. In the end it was always Rock Hotel Presents because that was what brought the kids, and, the kids at heart, OUT. The 16 vs 10 B.A.D. shows will be verified with just a little more digging from the archives. But I'm not wasting my time, it's the truth! Also, lest I forget. WOW!! on finding the Sonic Youth poster. Capwilly ( talk) 23:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC).
O.K. Wwwhatsup, try a few of these and there are plenty more! Suicidal Tendencies, Carnivore, Leeway, 10/2/87,, Dickies, Murphy’s Law, Underdog, 10/31/87,, G.B.H., Agnostic Front, The Accussed, 11/6/87,, Nuclear Assault, Carnivore, 4/1/88,, Crumbsuckers Leeway, Wench, 4/15/88,, U.K.Subs, Mentors, Broken Bones, 5/6/88,, Swans. Hugo Largo, Arto Lindsay Trio, Nine Inch Nails, 5/13/88,, Destruction, Testament, Nuclear Assault, Carnivore, Heathen, Nevermore, Violence, 7/18/88,, Agnostic Front, Murphy’s Law, Leeway, Warzone, 7/19/88,, Skinny Puppy, 10/31/88,, D.R.I., 11/23/88,, The Ramones, 12/31/88.
All Rock Hotel Shows and all verifiable . Heavy Duty Enough? Trust me, you were there.
Also, try: www.nytimes.com/.../classical-pianists-rock-in-a-manner-of-speaking.html?...and,
'Staten Island Advance' "Day in the life of a Promoter', 10/9/87, Rock Hotel Presents Suicidal Tendencies,Irving Plaza, by Debbie Papio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Capwilly ( talk • contribs) 15:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
More important is the fact that with all the legitimate and verifiable references I continue to produce, you folks block my edit, and , at the same time allow ref#8 to remain attached to the ‘Irving’ article even though it is completely and utterly not valid , irrefutably proven by the Daily News ‘curtains’article which was submitted!! Whatsup?, Wwwhatsup. Capwilly ( talk 15:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Finally!, Thanks Wwwhatsup, at least it's in there now. Irrefutable,, well you got me there . That's why I listed the correction above. It was 16 nights and I will soon produce documentation. Why not mention 300 White Castle hamburgers? Also , it was only after the exposure of B.A.D and the 'New Music Seminar' shows( NMS was the biggest and most prestigious music conference in the world at the time) that we started getting international prominence with agents, etc. Also, your take on the re-opening with B.A.D. isn't exactly so. With relation to Rock Hotel's public( and I will be searching for just how many Rock Motel ads actually exist vs. Rock Hotel), Sonic Youth was it. Also the B.A.D., shows as I've already stated many times, were co-promoted with Delsener and WKTU. The kids really did pull fixtures out at the last Ramones show. Whats the harm with including that info? Capwilly ( talk) 14:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Additionally: 'Milky Way' was 89' in to 90' when Williamson still had the space and there were 3 or 4 fellows who promoted those nights. Since, Rock Hotel had a lot of history with the beginnings of rap, for example, taking Public Enemy all the way to Madison Sq.Garden, Milky way was not a stretch. Plans for the play were in 90'. A producer for 'The Song Of Singapore' had contacted Eugene Kaleniak and in the aftermath of the 'condo' deal falling through, we agreed that it would be a good way to go. It was always my understanding that Rock Hotel would re-gain control of the space after the play, but a certain relative of one of the board members ran interference and opened up a bidding war for the space, making it financially impossible. Shortly thereafter, Delsener/Slater/SFX bought and booked the place. Capwilly ( talk) 15:10, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Wwwhatsup ( talk) 19:40, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Comments: Completely appreciate your continued help.
The place was never shut down. Shows continued after The Dictators.
Correct. Williamson had exclusive booking rights and owned all sound and lights. He was a friend of Delseners and more with Mitch Slater who at Mad.Sq. Garden( Gulf and Western then )he had courted for help in buying the entire block. No one listened at the time . there were no takers.
Milk Way as I said was in 89'- 90'. Rather than mentioning this I would think that the list of bands which I presented in my first edit would be more colorful. Did you notice Nine Inch Nails? What a story there!
With the very first news of the condo plans which actually pre-dates most of this, Williamson scrambled to convince them to keep the space as a working venue including reaching out to his contacts in the theatre world. There were a lot of irons in the fire including a desperate attempt to convince the Delseners and the Schers of the world to help buy the building as mentioned above.
As mentioned many times, no one had even seen this guy then. I worked with Eugene Kaleniak and met with the entire board many times over the years and only met Andrew at the very end of my relationship with the venue. It was my understanding that at the time he was put in charge of overseeing a weekly ballroom dancing night( turns out that entity was friends with Delsener) and therein begins the nasty tale.
You're right this is turning in to a book. However, when I do get some more corroborating material I would like to make a small edit to the script. Cheers Capwilly ( talk) 17:21, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
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help)Wwwhatsup ( talk) 08:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
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Comment: Wtf is "nut" - is that a real estate term or a typo? House of Blues never did open IIRC. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 05:59, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Talk to Louis Tropia ( who was the real booker in the beginning ) or Frank Gallagher or Chris Willaimson and they will tell you what a load of crap that is. Rasiej was not around till aproxiately 90' and after that, when Raisej was around, talk to Mitch Slater and Ron Delsener, and they'll tell you what a load of crap that is! Regarding the NMS shows, there were more!!, but this is becoming tedious. Talk to Mark Josephsine, he'll tell you. Capwilly ( talk) 00:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
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help)Wwwhatsup ( talk) 23:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
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help)Article goes into details of IP expenses, but is essentially to note the formation of the NY Nightlife Assn.
Comment: Sunday and Monday nights might justify 66% claim if they can be considered 'shows'. Ref for Brusca ex-Ritz. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 23:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
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help)This story explores the unusual situation of rivals Delsener/Slater & Metropolitan being forced to work together for the following 10 months, with the former promoting shows booked by the latter, and also being able to claim a portion of any other local show that features a band that had played earlier at IP.
Comment: The word 'owner' can lead to some confusion in that it would appear to refer to the owners of a lease rather than the premises, and it would seem that lease included the right to use 'Irving Plaza as a name'. It's not clear if what happened here is that Rasiej & Brusca just sublet, or actually sold their lease. Whichever way it included assigning over their deal with Metropolitan. In the article Rasiej says "now I've leased the space to them" - but it could be he's talking from the point of view of the real owners - the P.A.V.A.A. Brusca, incidentally, I believe, is a former manger of Te Ritz during the Jerry Brandt tenure - I could be wrong. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 06:56, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Repeat: Raisej was only there because his relatives allowed him to be. He was not an artist or promoter who came up through his love for music. The Frank Roccio,Jane Friedman,Louis Tropia team, the Frank Gallagher,Chuck Terzila,Andy Dunckley,Joe Plotkin team, and the Williamson/Rock Hotel team were there for the music and the 'scene',,,,not for the cheap buck and the swindle. Talk to John Scher,Mitch Slater, you'll get it. Capwilly 151.204.159.123 ( talk) 01:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC) Capwilly ( talk) 00:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per request. GTBacchus( talk) 21:19, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
The Fillmore New York at Irving Plaza →
Irving Plaza — Former name restored - see article (
source).
Wwwhatsup (
talk)
00:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
I mean there are mistakes concerning addresses and history in this article (two buildings are combinated). Irving Plaza has address 17 Irving Place. The old Irving Place German Theatre or Amberg´s Theatre had address 11 Irving Place or 118 E. 15th Street. So that it was located on the opposite corner of E. 15th Street and Irving Place – now there are Zeckendorf Towers. See: Cinematreasures
In history: "Built in 1888", "a Yiddish theatre, a burlesque house (ecdysiast Gypsy Rose Lee stripped here)", Amberg's German Theatre, all the paragraphs about years 1893 – 1939 are concerning the house 11 Irving Place or 118 E. 15th Street, not the Irving Plaza.
Later history of the house 11 Irving Place or 118 E. 15th Street:
The whole block was rebuilt to the warehouse S. Klein in 1962. In 1985 was the block demolished and replaced by the Zeckendorf Towers.
Dusan Hübl, Prague, Czech Republic, contact: hublovi@volny.cz — Preceding unsigned comment added by DusanEsence ( talk • contribs) 18:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC) -- DusanEsence ( talk) 14:15, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm going off now to add the "copied" template that both articles require. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 04:55, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I've just been putting it off until I was reminded a week or so back. I spent a whole week finding all those refs earlier and was as surprised as you to find the mistake. But it makes sense. There's still some unraveling to do, and also investigation as to the real origins of Irving Plaza. I may do some interviews. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 04:56, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of Irving Plaza was copied or moved into Irving Place Theatre with this edit on 07-30-2011. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
This article needs a serious rewrite, it reads like a review/promotion. 24.151.79.108 00:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It's now called The Fillmore New York at Irving Plaza, should it be moved? -- AW 17:44, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm wondering if the Select Performers section is wikiworthy. Thoughts? Sabrebattletank ( talk) 00:27, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm dubious. If they had dates and refs attached, perhaps on a separate page. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 02:43, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
I have twice reverted major edits by Capwilly on the basis that they remove sourced content and appear otherwise to be OR. I have written twice on his talk page explaining. I've had no response. He just made the edit for the third time. I do not wish to get into an edit war. Anyone else care to revert / comment? Wwwhatsup ( talk) 18:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I do see there's some background
here.
Wwwhatsup (
talk)
22:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Capwilly <capt.willy@y****.com> wrote:
> Not sure if you got this because I still do not see any reference to the facts which I brought up. My edits to the Irving Plaza article are accurate and can be backed up, not only by the following references, but also by Eugene Kaleniak the President of the Polish War Veterens Association which owned and controlled the space.
The New York Times,
The Village Voice,
Spin ,
The Aquarian ,
Interview ,
New York Magazine ,
CNN,
Timeout Magazine, and
Newsweek. I would like to insert these Refs but I just don't know how to do it. Ref #7 says that Andrew Rasiej started Irving Plaza in the 70's which is rubbish since he didn't have anything to do with the place until 1990 and in the 70's he was only a little boy. The same article referenced Heinrich Conreid as managing the venue in 1993 when in fact he died in 1903! Ref #8 from the Village Voice describes Chuck and Andy Dunckley during their run in the place which was 1983 to 1984 but says nothin!
> g about Big Audio Dynamite. Big Audio Dynamite played there for 16 nights in April of 1987, was promoted by Ron Delsener, Chris Williamson,and WKTU. Chuck and company were long gone. The venue was controlled by Rock Hotel Presents from 1986 to 1989. Ref #9 is written by some fanzine kid and only talks about the concert at Irving Plaza but does not mention Chuck, Andy,etc.,
> because they had nothing to do with it. How is this stuff admissable?
> Please, if you will, copy this email to the fellow trying to get in touch with me who originally complained about my edits. I just don't yet know how to reply and please help me get un-blocked so I can get this straight.
> Thanks kindly,
> Capwilly
response:
Hi
I already made a couple of adjustments to the article. I think your point that the Homme reference is unreliable is sound, but you have to accept the further point that you can't change referenced material in Wikipedia without at least giving some kind of justification in your edit summary and, if someone disputes it, taking to the talk page. If a reliable source, or consensus, can't be reached then the material will have to bdropped from the article. In my opinion you are going to have a very hard job sourcing that Williamson promoted at Irving since, to my knowledge, he never did - only at The Ritz during this period. The correct way to proceed, if you are uncertain as to how to handle things like refs, again is to go the talk page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Fillmore_New_York_at_Irving_Plaza and edit it just like you would an article, and remember to sign your comments by writing Wwwhatsup ( talk) 00:23, 29 March 2010 (UTC) which will automatically time and date stamp them. It's not rocket science.
If, as you assert, there are supporting references in the NY Times then they should show up in a search of their archives. For instance http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/23/nyregion/coping-from-polish-vets-to-punk-in-only-30-years.html does indeed have some good information.
j
Wwwhatsup (
talk)
00:23, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
> Without sending you a ton of stuff this article verifies all.
Please find attached the following - Daily News feature 12/25/88 pg.24 by David Browne - which verifies all. A) That Chuck Terzila, Frank Gallagher, and Andy Dunckley were long gone from Irving Plaza in 1985 and in fact according to Eugene Kaleniak, the President of the Polish War Veterens Association which owned the building, were in bankruptcy and had caused the venue to be dark for a season. B.) That Chris Williamson/Rock Hotel Presents installed sound and lights and took control of the venue as the promoting entity. C.) That Chris Williamson/Rock Hotel Presents promoted B.A.D. in April of 1987. D.) That Chris Williamson/Rock Hotel Presents promoted the ‘Farewell to Irving Plaza’ concert with The Ramones on Dec. 31st 1988. E.) That Chris Williamson/ Rock Hotel Presents continued it’s arrangement with Irving Plaza through 1989 with ongoing projects. Capwilly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.205.99.59 ( talk) 18:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
I guess you didn't get my last email. Hopefully you will and please add to it the fact that the NYTimes article you use as a reference by Robert Lipsyte is absolutely incorrect with his info about Andrew Raiseij and Irving Plaza. Mr. Lipsyte has instructed me to correct this misinformation which he included in his article by contacting the current Ombudsman of The New York Times to set the past write. ( and again, if you folks hadn't blocked me, I would have by now figured out how to include the many references which I have to back up my edits)
Capwilly (
talk)
19:04, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Just got this message. Thanks very much for your help. Were you around in 1986? Just as an example is the famous 86' New Year's Eve Dictators show where at the stroke of midnight they threw 100's of White Castle hamburgers in to the audience. There were over 50 major Rock Hotel concerts at Irving Plaza through the years and Chuck Terzila. Frank Gallagher, and Andy Dunckley were long gone, most particularly when B.A.D occurred during April of 87'. The article they reference was written by Christgau in 85' talking about his memory of those guys at Irving in 84' and should only be admissable to prove that they were there in that time frame, if I may be so bold to offer. Thanks again, Capwilly Capwilly ( talk) 19:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
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help)Wwwhatsup ( talk) 22:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
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help)Comment: - very good as far as it goes. I note no mention of name 'Rock Hotel' as promoter. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 21:35, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Wwwhatsup: Thanks for the follow up. In the beginning at Irving Plaza since the shows booked were so diametric from the Rock Hotel Shows at the Ritz ( see New York Magazine Dec. 22-29 issue 1986 " The Powers that will be" pg.90 by Amy Virshop ) we felt that there should be some deliniation in the way that they were promoted and so searched for a slightly different angle. In the end it was always Rock Hotel Presents because that was what brought the kids, and, the kids at heart, OUT. The 16 vs 10 B.A.D. shows will be verified with just a little more digging from the archives. But I'm not wasting my time, it's the truth! Also, lest I forget. WOW!! on finding the Sonic Youth poster. Capwilly ( talk) 23:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC).
O.K. Wwwhatsup, try a few of these and there are plenty more! Suicidal Tendencies, Carnivore, Leeway, 10/2/87,, Dickies, Murphy’s Law, Underdog, 10/31/87,, G.B.H., Agnostic Front, The Accussed, 11/6/87,, Nuclear Assault, Carnivore, 4/1/88,, Crumbsuckers Leeway, Wench, 4/15/88,, U.K.Subs, Mentors, Broken Bones, 5/6/88,, Swans. Hugo Largo, Arto Lindsay Trio, Nine Inch Nails, 5/13/88,, Destruction, Testament, Nuclear Assault, Carnivore, Heathen, Nevermore, Violence, 7/18/88,, Agnostic Front, Murphy’s Law, Leeway, Warzone, 7/19/88,, Skinny Puppy, 10/31/88,, D.R.I., 11/23/88,, The Ramones, 12/31/88.
All Rock Hotel Shows and all verifiable . Heavy Duty Enough? Trust me, you were there.
Also, try: www.nytimes.com/.../classical-pianists-rock-in-a-manner-of-speaking.html?...and,
'Staten Island Advance' "Day in the life of a Promoter', 10/9/87, Rock Hotel Presents Suicidal Tendencies,Irving Plaza, by Debbie Papio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Capwilly ( talk • contribs) 15:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
More important is the fact that with all the legitimate and verifiable references I continue to produce, you folks block my edit, and , at the same time allow ref#8 to remain attached to the ‘Irving’ article even though it is completely and utterly not valid , irrefutably proven by the Daily News ‘curtains’article which was submitted!! Whatsup?, Wwwhatsup. Capwilly ( talk 15:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Finally!, Thanks Wwwhatsup, at least it's in there now. Irrefutable,, well you got me there . That's why I listed the correction above. It was 16 nights and I will soon produce documentation. Why not mention 300 White Castle hamburgers? Also , it was only after the exposure of B.A.D and the 'New Music Seminar' shows( NMS was the biggest and most prestigious music conference in the world at the time) that we started getting international prominence with agents, etc. Also, your take on the re-opening with B.A.D. isn't exactly so. With relation to Rock Hotel's public( and I will be searching for just how many Rock Motel ads actually exist vs. Rock Hotel), Sonic Youth was it. Also the B.A.D., shows as I've already stated many times, were co-promoted with Delsener and WKTU. The kids really did pull fixtures out at the last Ramones show. Whats the harm with including that info? Capwilly ( talk) 14:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Additionally: 'Milky Way' was 89' in to 90' when Williamson still had the space and there were 3 or 4 fellows who promoted those nights. Since, Rock Hotel had a lot of history with the beginnings of rap, for example, taking Public Enemy all the way to Madison Sq.Garden, Milky way was not a stretch. Plans for the play were in 90'. A producer for 'The Song Of Singapore' had contacted Eugene Kaleniak and in the aftermath of the 'condo' deal falling through, we agreed that it would be a good way to go. It was always my understanding that Rock Hotel would re-gain control of the space after the play, but a certain relative of one of the board members ran interference and opened up a bidding war for the space, making it financially impossible. Shortly thereafter, Delsener/Slater/SFX bought and booked the place. Capwilly ( talk) 15:10, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Wwwhatsup ( talk) 19:40, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Comments: Completely appreciate your continued help.
The place was never shut down. Shows continued after The Dictators.
Correct. Williamson had exclusive booking rights and owned all sound and lights. He was a friend of Delseners and more with Mitch Slater who at Mad.Sq. Garden( Gulf and Western then )he had courted for help in buying the entire block. No one listened at the time . there were no takers.
Milk Way as I said was in 89'- 90'. Rather than mentioning this I would think that the list of bands which I presented in my first edit would be more colorful. Did you notice Nine Inch Nails? What a story there!
With the very first news of the condo plans which actually pre-dates most of this, Williamson scrambled to convince them to keep the space as a working venue including reaching out to his contacts in the theatre world. There were a lot of irons in the fire including a desperate attempt to convince the Delseners and the Schers of the world to help buy the building as mentioned above.
As mentioned many times, no one had even seen this guy then. I worked with Eugene Kaleniak and met with the entire board many times over the years and only met Andrew at the very end of my relationship with the venue. It was my understanding that at the time he was put in charge of overseeing a weekly ballroom dancing night( turns out that entity was friends with Delsener) and therein begins the nasty tale.
You're right this is turning in to a book. However, when I do get some more corroborating material I would like to make a small edit to the script. Cheers Capwilly ( talk) 17:21, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(
help)Wwwhatsup ( talk) 08:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(
help)
Comment: Wtf is "nut" - is that a real estate term or a typo? House of Blues never did open IIRC. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 05:59, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment: Talk to Louis Tropia ( who was the real booker in the beginning ) or Frank Gallagher or Chris Willaimson and they will tell you what a load of crap that is. Rasiej was not around till aproxiately 90' and after that, when Raisej was around, talk to Mitch Slater and Ron Delsener, and they'll tell you what a load of crap that is! Regarding the NMS shows, there were more!!, but this is becoming tedious. Talk to Mark Josephsine, he'll tell you. Capwilly ( talk) 00:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
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help)Wwwhatsup ( talk) 23:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
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help)Article goes into details of IP expenses, but is essentially to note the formation of the NY Nightlife Assn.
Comment: Sunday and Monday nights might justify 66% claim if they can be considered 'shows'. Ref for Brusca ex-Ritz. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 23:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
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help)This story explores the unusual situation of rivals Delsener/Slater & Metropolitan being forced to work together for the following 10 months, with the former promoting shows booked by the latter, and also being able to claim a portion of any other local show that features a band that had played earlier at IP.
Comment: The word 'owner' can lead to some confusion in that it would appear to refer to the owners of a lease rather than the premises, and it would seem that lease included the right to use 'Irving Plaza as a name'. It's not clear if what happened here is that Rasiej & Brusca just sublet, or actually sold their lease. Whichever way it included assigning over their deal with Metropolitan. In the article Rasiej says "now I've leased the space to them" - but it could be he's talking from the point of view of the real owners - the P.A.V.A.A. Brusca, incidentally, I believe, is a former manger of Te Ritz during the Jerry Brandt tenure - I could be wrong. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 06:56, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Repeat: Raisej was only there because his relatives allowed him to be. He was not an artist or promoter who came up through his love for music. The Frank Roccio,Jane Friedman,Louis Tropia team, the Frank Gallagher,Chuck Terzila,Andy Dunckley,Joe Plotkin team, and the Williamson/Rock Hotel team were there for the music and the 'scene',,,,not for the cheap buck and the swindle. Talk to John Scher,Mitch Slater, you'll get it. Capwilly 151.204.159.123 ( talk) 01:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC) Capwilly ( talk) 00:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per request. GTBacchus( talk) 21:19, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
The Fillmore New York at Irving Plaza →
Irving Plaza — Former name restored - see article (
source).
Wwwhatsup (
talk)
00:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
I mean there are mistakes concerning addresses and history in this article (two buildings are combinated). Irving Plaza has address 17 Irving Place. The old Irving Place German Theatre or Amberg´s Theatre had address 11 Irving Place or 118 E. 15th Street. So that it was located on the opposite corner of E. 15th Street and Irving Place – now there are Zeckendorf Towers. See: Cinematreasures
In history: "Built in 1888", "a Yiddish theatre, a burlesque house (ecdysiast Gypsy Rose Lee stripped here)", Amberg's German Theatre, all the paragraphs about years 1893 – 1939 are concerning the house 11 Irving Place or 118 E. 15th Street, not the Irving Plaza.
Later history of the house 11 Irving Place or 118 E. 15th Street:
The whole block was rebuilt to the warehouse S. Klein in 1962. In 1985 was the block demolished and replaced by the Zeckendorf Towers.
Dusan Hübl, Prague, Czech Republic, contact: hublovi@volny.cz — Preceding unsigned comment added by DusanEsence ( talk • contribs) 18:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC) -- DusanEsence ( talk) 14:15, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm going off now to add the "copied" template that both articles require. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 04:55, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I've just been putting it off until I was reminded a week or so back. I spent a whole week finding all those refs earlier and was as surprised as you to find the mistake. But it makes sense. There's still some unraveling to do, and also investigation as to the real origins of Irving Plaza. I may do some interviews. Wwwhatsup ( talk) 04:56, 30 July 2011 (UTC)