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The military aspects of this article are total drivel. e,g, "Corporal E. Thomas of 4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards had the distinction of firing the first shot in the War." first shot when, where, in what context ? "The 1st Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers and the Royal Munster Fusiliers with the Inniskilling Fusiliers participated in the attempted Y beech Landing at Cape Helles." ??? Rcbutcher ( talk) 02:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
To add to the list:
Above from Category:Irish people of World War I and some of its subcategories. Some already on the list, but many missing and could be added. I haven't looked at Category:Irish World War I recipients of the Victoria Cross or its subcategories yet. Carcharoth ( talk) 09:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I've just redirected List of Irish people in World War I (and its talk page) to this article. The version prior to redirection is here, in case anyone thinks content from there can be incorporated into this article. I did this following this discussion at the Military History WikiProject. If anyone disagrees with this, please feel free to undo it and discuss here. Thanks. Carcharoth ( talk) 23:20, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
It is completely inncorrect, indeed misleading, to say that the National Volunteers formed the 10th and 16th Divisions.
The National Volunteers was a body of about 100,000 men at its peak. Of them, 24,000 joind various units of the British Army for the war. They did not join as an organisation or as a body. The British Army formed the 10th and 16th Irish Divisions as part of the New Army, officered them and filled them however it could.
The 16th Division had the strongest influence of National Volunteers in its ranks but by no stretch of the imgaination was it formed by them ,nor did they make up the majority of recruits. By the end of the war, indeed, as a result of casulaites and sluggish recruiting, most of the soldiers in it were not Irish at all.
Jdorney ( talk) 13:13, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Why does the following paragraph continue to be editted out of the entire article?
As Controversial as the war was in Ireland, the experience of an Irish Soldier fighting in the British Army was one of institutional discrimination, on average one British soldier out of every 3,000 were court martialed and executed by firing squad during the war, in comparison to the much higher, one out of every 600 Irish Soldiers. This displays that within the British army during the entire extent of the War there was a clear anti-Irish sentiment [1] [2]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boundarylayer ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
The link may be dead but that does not mean it is inaccessible, Archive.org have a back up: This link will work: http://web.archive.org/web/20100714054820/http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20050807/ai_n14861581/
I'm not familiar with the policy of linking through archive.org, but to suggest it is original research is false. The page loads perfectly, just click on the link to find out, or go to the waybackmachine youself on archive.org and plug the dead link URL in.
I also accept the reworking of the article, but the previous edit suggested that a total of only 26 Irish soldiers were executed, this was misleading. 26 have since been pardoned but a total of 333 were executed. Divide 200,000 by 600 and you'll get 333, and not 26. I'll accept this as an honest mistake but whomever reworked the information, presented by me, to suggest a total of only 26 were executed, are guilty of some very sloppy and misleading work. Boundarylayer ( talk) 08:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
If you were Irish and died in the war then you have, just over a 1% chance of having been the victim of a British execution I also included that if the total Irish war dead was 30000, as this wiki page suggests, then that would translate into over 1% of all Irish dead being victims of British executions. Again I arrived at this figure by dividing 333/30,000 and then multiplying the answer by 100 to get the 1.11% precentage. The 333 figure is explained in this following link and above [1].
This 1% dead by execution is pretty alarming, and should definitely be included in the opening section of this wiki page.
What do the rest of you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boundarylayer ( talk • contribs) 09:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh dear, this is nonsense. There were a total of 346 military executions in the entire British Army, including rapists and murderers. There were 306 in the entire British army executed for other offences. If you are saying that 28 were Irish, that's 0.09% of Irish casualties, and 0.01% of every Irishman that served. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.216.84 ( talk) 00:08, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Why is it so difficult to get a figure on the exact number of Irish soldiers executed? an entire list isn't available in the online British records nor in the Irish records. Very odd, perhaps someone could physically go to their respective records offices and request the information? This reaffirms the 1 in every 600 figure http://www.shotatdawn.info/page37.html although whether or not this was in fact the original source of the figure is unknown. However the website does have a reference list at the bottom of the page. including - Worthless Men. Race and Eugenics in the British Army 1914-1919 (1998)
This Belfast telegraph article states there were not 26 but 28 Irish executions http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/books/part-one-the-truth-behind-the-irish-soldiers-shot-at-dawn-13488027.html
346 officers and men were summarily executed at dawn following their court martials in the field between the outbreak of war in 1914 and the end of March 1920. Anthony Babington is the only writer who has been allowed access by the ministry of defence to all the files relating to these cases. He found that although the majority of the executed men were guilty, or technically guilty, of the charges laid against them, many were treated with considerable injustice and great inhumanity. This book reveals the grim and sometimes horrific details of the trials and executions. The disclosures it has revealed aroused a widespread sense of shame and have led to frequent parliamentry demands for posthumous pardons.
About the Author
Anthony Babington served in the Royal Ulster Rifles from 1939-1945. He was a Circuit Judge in London from 1972 until his retirement in 1988. His other books include A House in Bow Street, The English Bastille, and Military Intervention in Britain.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Example-Penguin-Classic-Military-History/dp/0141391006/ref=sr_1_1/202-0213039-9571844?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175959995&sr=1-1
Boundarylayer (
talk) 11:31, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
On the Contrary, what this really comes down to is that YOU seem to think it's not a big deal. As this page is titled Ireland and World War I it certainly stands to reason that this information should be included. Boundarylayer ( talk) 17:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Edits made recently have replaced many (if not all) instances of "nationalist" with "republican". [1] I personally don't think this is reasonable. "Republican" and "nationalist" are not synonymous. Many nationalists at the time (and as referred to in the article) were interested in devolution, increased autonomy, home rule and other changes - but not necessarily a republic. One of the edits even seems to suggest that John Redmond was a republican. Which is quite inappropriate. Unless there are arguments against, I think we should restore the (broader) nationalist label - as it is more inclusive and less misleading in those areas where republican and nationalist ideals overlapped. Guliolopez ( talk) 10:52, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
This is a very good article. However, it seems most unusual that economic factors in recruitment are not mentioned at all. Does anybody know how much recruits were paid? What was the average income they would expect to get if they stayed at home? This hugely important issue would help us understand motivation a lot better. 188.141.23.18 ( talk) 16:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Irish WWI poster - Is Your Home Worth Fighting For? - Hely's Limited, Litho, Dublin.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on November 11, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-11-11. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich ( talk) 00:20, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Over 200,000 Irishmen fought in the war, in several theatres. The number of Irish soldiers killed is estimated as 49,400, of whom 30,000 were serving in the British forces.Poster: Hely's Limited; restoration: Adam Cuerden
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The military aspects of this article are total drivel. e,g, "Corporal E. Thomas of 4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards had the distinction of firing the first shot in the War." first shot when, where, in what context ? "The 1st Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers and the Royal Munster Fusiliers with the Inniskilling Fusiliers participated in the attempted Y beech Landing at Cape Helles." ??? Rcbutcher ( talk) 02:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
To add to the list:
Above from Category:Irish people of World War I and some of its subcategories. Some already on the list, but many missing and could be added. I haven't looked at Category:Irish World War I recipients of the Victoria Cross or its subcategories yet. Carcharoth ( talk) 09:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I've just redirected List of Irish people in World War I (and its talk page) to this article. The version prior to redirection is here, in case anyone thinks content from there can be incorporated into this article. I did this following this discussion at the Military History WikiProject. If anyone disagrees with this, please feel free to undo it and discuss here. Thanks. Carcharoth ( talk) 23:20, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
It is completely inncorrect, indeed misleading, to say that the National Volunteers formed the 10th and 16th Divisions.
The National Volunteers was a body of about 100,000 men at its peak. Of them, 24,000 joind various units of the British Army for the war. They did not join as an organisation or as a body. The British Army formed the 10th and 16th Irish Divisions as part of the New Army, officered them and filled them however it could.
The 16th Division had the strongest influence of National Volunteers in its ranks but by no stretch of the imgaination was it formed by them ,nor did they make up the majority of recruits. By the end of the war, indeed, as a result of casulaites and sluggish recruiting, most of the soldiers in it were not Irish at all.
Jdorney ( talk) 13:13, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Why does the following paragraph continue to be editted out of the entire article?
As Controversial as the war was in Ireland, the experience of an Irish Soldier fighting in the British Army was one of institutional discrimination, on average one British soldier out of every 3,000 were court martialed and executed by firing squad during the war, in comparison to the much higher, one out of every 600 Irish Soldiers. This displays that within the British army during the entire extent of the War there was a clear anti-Irish sentiment [1] [2]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boundarylayer ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
The link may be dead but that does not mean it is inaccessible, Archive.org have a back up: This link will work: http://web.archive.org/web/20100714054820/http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20050807/ai_n14861581/
I'm not familiar with the policy of linking through archive.org, but to suggest it is original research is false. The page loads perfectly, just click on the link to find out, or go to the waybackmachine youself on archive.org and plug the dead link URL in.
I also accept the reworking of the article, but the previous edit suggested that a total of only 26 Irish soldiers were executed, this was misleading. 26 have since been pardoned but a total of 333 were executed. Divide 200,000 by 600 and you'll get 333, and not 26. I'll accept this as an honest mistake but whomever reworked the information, presented by me, to suggest a total of only 26 were executed, are guilty of some very sloppy and misleading work. Boundarylayer ( talk) 08:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
If you were Irish and died in the war then you have, just over a 1% chance of having been the victim of a British execution I also included that if the total Irish war dead was 30000, as this wiki page suggests, then that would translate into over 1% of all Irish dead being victims of British executions. Again I arrived at this figure by dividing 333/30,000 and then multiplying the answer by 100 to get the 1.11% precentage. The 333 figure is explained in this following link and above [1].
This 1% dead by execution is pretty alarming, and should definitely be included in the opening section of this wiki page.
What do the rest of you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boundarylayer ( talk • contribs) 09:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh dear, this is nonsense. There were a total of 346 military executions in the entire British Army, including rapists and murderers. There were 306 in the entire British army executed for other offences. If you are saying that 28 were Irish, that's 0.09% of Irish casualties, and 0.01% of every Irishman that served. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.216.84 ( talk) 00:08, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Why is it so difficult to get a figure on the exact number of Irish soldiers executed? an entire list isn't available in the online British records nor in the Irish records. Very odd, perhaps someone could physically go to their respective records offices and request the information? This reaffirms the 1 in every 600 figure http://www.shotatdawn.info/page37.html although whether or not this was in fact the original source of the figure is unknown. However the website does have a reference list at the bottom of the page. including - Worthless Men. Race and Eugenics in the British Army 1914-1919 (1998)
This Belfast telegraph article states there were not 26 but 28 Irish executions http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/books/part-one-the-truth-behind-the-irish-soldiers-shot-at-dawn-13488027.html
346 officers and men were summarily executed at dawn following their court martials in the field between the outbreak of war in 1914 and the end of March 1920. Anthony Babington is the only writer who has been allowed access by the ministry of defence to all the files relating to these cases. He found that although the majority of the executed men were guilty, or technically guilty, of the charges laid against them, many were treated with considerable injustice and great inhumanity. This book reveals the grim and sometimes horrific details of the trials and executions. The disclosures it has revealed aroused a widespread sense of shame and have led to frequent parliamentry demands for posthumous pardons.
About the Author
Anthony Babington served in the Royal Ulster Rifles from 1939-1945. He was a Circuit Judge in London from 1972 until his retirement in 1988. His other books include A House in Bow Street, The English Bastille, and Military Intervention in Britain.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Example-Penguin-Classic-Military-History/dp/0141391006/ref=sr_1_1/202-0213039-9571844?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175959995&sr=1-1
Boundarylayer (
talk) 11:31, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
On the Contrary, what this really comes down to is that YOU seem to think it's not a big deal. As this page is titled Ireland and World War I it certainly stands to reason that this information should be included. Boundarylayer ( talk) 17:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Edits made recently have replaced many (if not all) instances of "nationalist" with "republican". [1] I personally don't think this is reasonable. "Republican" and "nationalist" are not synonymous. Many nationalists at the time (and as referred to in the article) were interested in devolution, increased autonomy, home rule and other changes - but not necessarily a republic. One of the edits even seems to suggest that John Redmond was a republican. Which is quite inappropriate. Unless there are arguments against, I think we should restore the (broader) nationalist label - as it is more inclusive and less misleading in those areas where republican and nationalist ideals overlapped. Guliolopez ( talk) 10:52, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
This is a very good article. However, it seems most unusual that economic factors in recruitment are not mentioned at all. Does anybody know how much recruits were paid? What was the average income they would expect to get if they stayed at home? This hugely important issue would help us understand motivation a lot better. 188.141.23.18 ( talk) 16:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Irish WWI poster - Is Your Home Worth Fighting For? - Hely's Limited, Litho, Dublin.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on November 11, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-11-11. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich ( talk) 00:20, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Over 200,000 Irishmen fought in the war, in several theatres. The number of Irish soldiers killed is estimated as 49,400, of whom 30,000 were serving in the British forces.Poster: Hely's Limited; restoration: Adam Cuerden
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