![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
I propose that this article be renamed. The terms "Anglo" suggests specifically English (as in Anglo-Saxon), or the English language when in fact there are more national identities in the United Kingdom (Northern/Irish, Scottish, Welsh etc) than just English. The national description of these peoples is "British".
Further to this, the term "Irish" is ambiguous, as it describes both a nationality (a country) and an ethnicity - the two aren't necessarily the same, though there is a large overlap. -- Mal 01:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Ireland is represented by orange and the UK is represented by green. That made me smile. No rebuttle required.-- Play Brian Moore 19:18, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
What is the purpose of having a troubles section if it doesn't actually say much about the troubles?-- T*85 ( talk) 03:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Quote Whatever Britain did, Ireland did the opposite was the main policy of previous Irish governments for decades after independence unquote. What a lot of old chuff. I am assuming that the author meant to say that the Irish chose to do some things differently than the British [governments] sometimes on principle alone perhaps. Examples should be given, but the phrase used is annecdotal, unsourced and frankly, totally erroneous. Dainamo ( talk) 00:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I noticed this rewrite you did RA:
“ | Due to close proximity to each other there have been relations people inhabiting the islands of Great Britain and Ireland for as much as we know of their history. For instance, the Romans, who occupied the lower portion of Great Britain maintained a trading post near the location of modern Dublin. citation needed A Romano-Briton call Patrick, later Saint Patrick, christianised Ireland. And following the fall of the Roman Empire, during the Dark Ages, missionaries from Ireland re-christianised Britain. | ” |
Would the term British Isles be more appropriate? I think its far too general just stating the two main islands of the group. It leaves out the Western Isles, Orkneys, Shetlands, Isle of Man etc. Or should this actually be discussed at the BISE? Mabuska (talk) 21:37, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
A editor has raised the question of removing the ability to pipe link the title of the British Isles template. Currently, on this page, it pipe links as [[British Isles|British Irish Council area]]. The editor would like this ability to be removed.
Discussion is taking place here. --RA ( talk) 08:43, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
... because the MOS for maps of these sort is green and orange. Admittedly, i's a bit unfortunate in this case. --RA ( talk) 13:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I've merged content from Politics in the British Isles, which has sprung up as a POV fork (in the best possible sense of the word) of this article. It contained some very good text and is a great addition to this article IMO. -- RA ( talk) 16:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
As per this revision, there had been a revert which resulted in removal of large amount of content without discussing in the talk page, which I identified as vandalism and gave a warning. Now the differences in opinions between the editors has resulted in an edit war, knowingly or unknowingly, because of these reversions, 1 and 2. I believe the matter will be resolved with proper coordination between the editors, hopefully without any blocks. Thank you. Shriram ( talk) 17:30, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
In these two edits, KarlB removed a large chunk of text, and changed some wording. I reverted those changes, and per WP:BRD that was the point at which KarlB should have started discussing them. However, instead of discussion he simply reverted my reversion.
I have now restored the text again, and asked Karl to discuss these changes on the article's talk page rather than simply restoring the text.
The reason I reverted Karl's edit was that:
I hope that per WP:BRD, Karl will now discuss his contested changes rather than simply reverting. I note that he has already been warned above about WP:EDITWARring. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 02:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Recent edits by RA and BHG are pushing a POV that the crown dependencies are somehow part of the UK. When I attempted to undo these changes, my edits were reverted. A search of the UK legislature suggests that the term "United Kingdom dependencies" [1] does not include the Crown dependencies. Before 2002, the British Overseas territories were called 'British dependent territories'. Thus, the use of the phrasing 'dependencies of the UK' instead of the standard 'Crown dependencies' risks confusion. BHGs assertion that "the fact that three islands are constitutionally dependencies of the crown is less significant than the fact that for practical purposes they are dependencies of the United Kingdom" is not backed up by any sources, analysis, articles, or law" is pure fiction. For practical purposes, UK parliament has sovereign control over them; yes. But that does *not* make them dependencies of the United Kingdom. I suggest BHG leave law to the lawyers, and just accept the terminology used by the UK government.-- KarlB ( talk) 03:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I have tagged the section headed "Academic perspectives" as a {{ POV-section}}, because far from offering perspectives (plural), it offers only one perspective, "postnationalist" approach advocated by the philosopher Richard Kearney.
The sole focus on " postnationalism" not only ignores the significance of the nationalist perspective on Irish history, but it also ignores the huge significance of Ulster Unionism. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 04:18, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
---> Moved this discussion to Talk:Politics in the British Isles. Please continue the discussion there, as that is the original place where the content was created, and that is where edits are occurring (for example, additional references have already been added since your request for more refs) - but I'm not going to do this in two places. Thanks for understanding! -- KarlB ( talk) 05:58, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
[Edited: Struck out because we are discussing this article, here. -- RA ( talk) 08:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I've restored the section. The content was released under a compatible license and is directly relevant to the content of this article. A substantial cause of concern is the existence of two articles on the same topic but written by authors with alternative POVs on the subject. The two need to be integrated. — Rannpháirtí anaithnid 08:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC) — continues after insertion below
This article is on British-Irish relations. The Academic perspectives (whether it contains POV issues or not) is on academic perspectives on British-Irish relations. -- RA ( talk) 08:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
The history section is rather one sided, and seems to tell the story from a nationalist irish perspective. -- KarlB ( talk) 13:53, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
I propose that " Politics in the British Isles" be merged into the already-existing " Ireland-United Kingdom relations". Per Wikipedia:Merging reasons for a merger include:
There is an obvious and clear overlap in the content of the two articles in almost all of the sections of the " Politics in the British Isles" article. Effectively all of the content of that article has already been incorporated here and expanded upon and further developed. Thus, as it stands, the " Politics in the British Isles" article is essentially a duplicate.
" Ireland-United Kingdom relations" is the earlier-existing article, whereas " Politics in the British Isles" is newly-created, so a merger in this direction makes greater sense. Additionally, in the recent AfD, concerns were raised about the suitability of " Politics in the British Isles" as a means to frame the subject. These concerns are borne out, for example, in the heading on "Government structure" (for a geographic entity without a government) and, for example, in the heading "International relations" (for a geographic entity with only two states that have competency for international relations). -- RA ( talk) 18:44, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Pity it couldn't be more focused instead of being a potted history and description of just about everything and anything. Cut it down to a third in length would be the best start. Frenchmalawi ( talk) 02:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Another point...it goes on so much about Channel Islands (not even in UK) and EU citizenship etc., etc. ad nauseum...Is it really about Ireland-UK relations? I think it should be more Governmental focussed....as otherwise it goes on and on and on ..... Frenchmalawi ( talk) 02:53, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
An editor insists that the following is correct: "During the period from December 1936 to April 1949, it was unclear whether or not the Irish state was a republic or a form of constitutional monarchy and (from 1937) whether its head of state was the President of Ireland (Douglas Hyde until 1945, and Seán T. O'Kelly afterwards) or the King of Ireland (George VI) and so be in personal union with the United Kingdom.
I disagree....Read the following:
..."The King's title in the Irish Free State was exactly the same as it was elsewhere in the British Empire, being from 1922 to 1927: "By the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas King, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India" and, from 1927 to 1937: "By the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas King, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India".
The position (as outlined above) continued until the ROI Act....That is to say, the King had no separate Irish title...There was no "King of Ireland" (the title did not exist) in personal union....There was a King whose title was universal...It was only in 1953 (after IRL left Empire) that Royal titles got split out and there were separate "realms". Frenchmalawi ( talk) 00:13, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
On the page Foreign relations of the Republic of Ireland, for each country added to a list of countries Ireland has ties with, it asks for a year in which formal diplomatic relations began. As of now I have placed 1801 in the box to represent the Act of Union but this does not seem right to me. Does anyone know when official diplomatic relations were started between the two countries? Im guessing around the 1920's? ShaneMc2010 00:33, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
UK orange. Eire green. I don't know why it was changed from how it was originally, but this is a little silly. Rob ( talk) 20:09, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I am completely amazed that there is absolutely no reference to Brexit within this article as it will have a profound affect on relations between the United Kingdom and Ireland and should be mentioned on this article. ( 2A02:C7F:5621:2A00:A4B2:484:4A54:9BF3 ( talk) 16:18, 3 July 2017 (UTC))
The Irish GDP PPP figure is totally off. See economy of Ireland Wikipedia page. 109.79.86.180 ( talk) 20:41, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
I propose that this article be renamed. The terms "Anglo" suggests specifically English (as in Anglo-Saxon), or the English language when in fact there are more national identities in the United Kingdom (Northern/Irish, Scottish, Welsh etc) than just English. The national description of these peoples is "British".
Further to this, the term "Irish" is ambiguous, as it describes both a nationality (a country) and an ethnicity - the two aren't necessarily the same, though there is a large overlap. -- Mal 01:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Ireland is represented by orange and the UK is represented by green. That made me smile. No rebuttle required.-- Play Brian Moore 19:18, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
What is the purpose of having a troubles section if it doesn't actually say much about the troubles?-- T*85 ( talk) 03:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Quote Whatever Britain did, Ireland did the opposite was the main policy of previous Irish governments for decades after independence unquote. What a lot of old chuff. I am assuming that the author meant to say that the Irish chose to do some things differently than the British [governments] sometimes on principle alone perhaps. Examples should be given, but the phrase used is annecdotal, unsourced and frankly, totally erroneous. Dainamo ( talk) 00:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I noticed this rewrite you did RA:
“ | Due to close proximity to each other there have been relations people inhabiting the islands of Great Britain and Ireland for as much as we know of their history. For instance, the Romans, who occupied the lower portion of Great Britain maintained a trading post near the location of modern Dublin. citation needed A Romano-Briton call Patrick, later Saint Patrick, christianised Ireland. And following the fall of the Roman Empire, during the Dark Ages, missionaries from Ireland re-christianised Britain. | ” |
Would the term British Isles be more appropriate? I think its far too general just stating the two main islands of the group. It leaves out the Western Isles, Orkneys, Shetlands, Isle of Man etc. Or should this actually be discussed at the BISE? Mabuska (talk) 21:37, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
A editor has raised the question of removing the ability to pipe link the title of the British Isles template. Currently, on this page, it pipe links as [[British Isles|British Irish Council area]]. The editor would like this ability to be removed.
Discussion is taking place here. --RA ( talk) 08:43, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
... because the MOS for maps of these sort is green and orange. Admittedly, i's a bit unfortunate in this case. --RA ( talk) 13:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I've merged content from Politics in the British Isles, which has sprung up as a POV fork (in the best possible sense of the word) of this article. It contained some very good text and is a great addition to this article IMO. -- RA ( talk) 16:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
As per this revision, there had been a revert which resulted in removal of large amount of content without discussing in the talk page, which I identified as vandalism and gave a warning. Now the differences in opinions between the editors has resulted in an edit war, knowingly or unknowingly, because of these reversions, 1 and 2. I believe the matter will be resolved with proper coordination between the editors, hopefully without any blocks. Thank you. Shriram ( talk) 17:30, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
In these two edits, KarlB removed a large chunk of text, and changed some wording. I reverted those changes, and per WP:BRD that was the point at which KarlB should have started discussing them. However, instead of discussion he simply reverted my reversion.
I have now restored the text again, and asked Karl to discuss these changes on the article's talk page rather than simply restoring the text.
The reason I reverted Karl's edit was that:
I hope that per WP:BRD, Karl will now discuss his contested changes rather than simply reverting. I note that he has already been warned above about WP:EDITWARring. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 02:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Recent edits by RA and BHG are pushing a POV that the crown dependencies are somehow part of the UK. When I attempted to undo these changes, my edits were reverted. A search of the UK legislature suggests that the term "United Kingdom dependencies" [1] does not include the Crown dependencies. Before 2002, the British Overseas territories were called 'British dependent territories'. Thus, the use of the phrasing 'dependencies of the UK' instead of the standard 'Crown dependencies' risks confusion. BHGs assertion that "the fact that three islands are constitutionally dependencies of the crown is less significant than the fact that for practical purposes they are dependencies of the United Kingdom" is not backed up by any sources, analysis, articles, or law" is pure fiction. For practical purposes, UK parliament has sovereign control over them; yes. But that does *not* make them dependencies of the United Kingdom. I suggest BHG leave law to the lawyers, and just accept the terminology used by the UK government.-- KarlB ( talk) 03:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I have tagged the section headed "Academic perspectives" as a {{ POV-section}}, because far from offering perspectives (plural), it offers only one perspective, "postnationalist" approach advocated by the philosopher Richard Kearney.
The sole focus on " postnationalism" not only ignores the significance of the nationalist perspective on Irish history, but it also ignores the huge significance of Ulster Unionism. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 04:18, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
---> Moved this discussion to Talk:Politics in the British Isles. Please continue the discussion there, as that is the original place where the content was created, and that is where edits are occurring (for example, additional references have already been added since your request for more refs) - but I'm not going to do this in two places. Thanks for understanding! -- KarlB ( talk) 05:58, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
[Edited: Struck out because we are discussing this article, here. -- RA ( talk) 08:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I've restored the section. The content was released under a compatible license and is directly relevant to the content of this article. A substantial cause of concern is the existence of two articles on the same topic but written by authors with alternative POVs on the subject. The two need to be integrated. — Rannpháirtí anaithnid 08:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC) — continues after insertion below
This article is on British-Irish relations. The Academic perspectives (whether it contains POV issues or not) is on academic perspectives on British-Irish relations. -- RA ( talk) 08:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
The history section is rather one sided, and seems to tell the story from a nationalist irish perspective. -- KarlB ( talk) 13:53, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
I propose that " Politics in the British Isles" be merged into the already-existing " Ireland-United Kingdom relations". Per Wikipedia:Merging reasons for a merger include:
There is an obvious and clear overlap in the content of the two articles in almost all of the sections of the " Politics in the British Isles" article. Effectively all of the content of that article has already been incorporated here and expanded upon and further developed. Thus, as it stands, the " Politics in the British Isles" article is essentially a duplicate.
" Ireland-United Kingdom relations" is the earlier-existing article, whereas " Politics in the British Isles" is newly-created, so a merger in this direction makes greater sense. Additionally, in the recent AfD, concerns were raised about the suitability of " Politics in the British Isles" as a means to frame the subject. These concerns are borne out, for example, in the heading on "Government structure" (for a geographic entity without a government) and, for example, in the heading "International relations" (for a geographic entity with only two states that have competency for international relations). -- RA ( talk) 18:44, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Pity it couldn't be more focused instead of being a potted history and description of just about everything and anything. Cut it down to a third in length would be the best start. Frenchmalawi ( talk) 02:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Another point...it goes on so much about Channel Islands (not even in UK) and EU citizenship etc., etc. ad nauseum...Is it really about Ireland-UK relations? I think it should be more Governmental focussed....as otherwise it goes on and on and on ..... Frenchmalawi ( talk) 02:53, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
An editor insists that the following is correct: "During the period from December 1936 to April 1949, it was unclear whether or not the Irish state was a republic or a form of constitutional monarchy and (from 1937) whether its head of state was the President of Ireland (Douglas Hyde until 1945, and Seán T. O'Kelly afterwards) or the King of Ireland (George VI) and so be in personal union with the United Kingdom.
I disagree....Read the following:
..."The King's title in the Irish Free State was exactly the same as it was elsewhere in the British Empire, being from 1922 to 1927: "By the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas King, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India" and, from 1927 to 1937: "By the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas King, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India".
The position (as outlined above) continued until the ROI Act....That is to say, the King had no separate Irish title...There was no "King of Ireland" (the title did not exist) in personal union....There was a King whose title was universal...It was only in 1953 (after IRL left Empire) that Royal titles got split out and there were separate "realms". Frenchmalawi ( talk) 00:13, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
On the page Foreign relations of the Republic of Ireland, for each country added to a list of countries Ireland has ties with, it asks for a year in which formal diplomatic relations began. As of now I have placed 1801 in the box to represent the Act of Union but this does not seem right to me. Does anyone know when official diplomatic relations were started between the two countries? Im guessing around the 1920's? ShaneMc2010 00:33, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
UK orange. Eire green. I don't know why it was changed from how it was originally, but this is a little silly. Rob ( talk) 20:09, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I am completely amazed that there is absolutely no reference to Brexit within this article as it will have a profound affect on relations between the United Kingdom and Ireland and should be mentioned on this article. ( 2A02:C7F:5621:2A00:A4B2:484:4A54:9BF3 ( talk) 16:18, 3 July 2017 (UTC))
The Irish GDP PPP figure is totally off. See economy of Ireland Wikipedia page. 109.79.86.180 ( talk) 20:41, 14 October 2022 (UTC)