![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
AED and IED are used without explanation of what they mean or links. This is bad practice 121.98.218.165 ( talk) 07:47, 26 March 2012 (UTC) Martyn
I changed the Casualty section a bit, adding two tables with estimates by the IBC and the Iraqi government. I am still looking for two Iraqi estimates from December 2011 and February 2012, but other than that it would be great if someone with more knowledge takes a look at the tables and plays a bit with them. I know they could fit the article much better, but my knowledge in the area is limited, so please if you have any ideas, share them right here. Skycycle ( talk) 00:28, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
You may have noticed the recent (unauthorized and lacking consensus) move of the page to Iraqi insurgency (2011-present) - just to let everyone know, I have started a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents due to the edits done by User: Charles Essie. This has, of course, been discussed before - and post-US phase makes a lot more sense than just slapping a year on it and calling it quits, since it's what characterises the insurgency nowadays, and the conflict has changed. Regardless, hopefully soon some sort of action will be taken against this account, and it will be done and dealt with. Skycycle ( talk) 16:11, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
I do most of the editing on List of terrorist incidents, 2012 - it would be easier to use that article and the already sourced attacks to fill in the list of attacks by month in this article. If anyone wants to do the first few months, it would be great - if not, I will eventually get down to it, but towards the end of the year.
In addition to this, I removed the estimates for the size of Sunni and Shi'ite groups. This is something that needs to be researched, since the figures on most other wikipedia articles are ones from 2006-2008, when the insurgency was much stronger. Also, a few of the Shi'ite groups have been disbanded or are in a temporary "truce".
Lastly, we would make great use of a few photos, or at least one for the header box. Skycycle ( talk) 16:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Suggestion WRT the opening paragraph: "Since the U.S. military's withdrawal, the level of violence has risen,.." -- this seems to be contradicted by the table and chart in the section #Iraq_Body_Count . Perhaps replace with something along the lines of "although the level of violence seems to have stabilised since US forces withdrew, the prospect of a civil war has not abated"Â ? I'm not an expert on the topic so there's undoubtedly room for improving that wording, though, which is why I didn't make the edit. Comments?
imipak
I suggest the creation of a newer, broader article titled Aftermath of the Iraq War. I should include details of all that's happened in Iraq after the end of the occupation, after all there is a page titled Aftermath of the Libyan civil war and the Iraq War's aftermath has been just as important. (P.S. sorry about the unathorized change to the title, it will never happen again). Charles Essie ( talk) 00:55, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
I now feel that Skycycle is right, the Iraq War is not over, it did not end with the coalition withdrawal. Charles Essie ( talk) 13:46, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
The figures in this article are almost useless because the word "casualty" is used inconsistently sometimes to mean "death", sometimes in its correct meaning (death or serious injury). I even found the bizarre euphemism "mortal casualty" for "death". Many times the tables that say "Iraq casualties" clearly mean deaths, since they are quoted from the IBC (which usually tracks deaths specifically), but sometimes this is clearly not the case.
Also, in one place there's a table that is described above it as "Following are the monthly IBC Project civilian death totals, from the US pullout in December 2011 onwards" and below it as "The numbers include civilians, as well as members of the Iraqi Army and police forces." Huh??? They either do or do not include non-civilians. Fix this shit!
67.198.70.33 ( talk) 06:15, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
How many killed are by those groups who've joined the rebels in Syria and how many have been killed by pro-syrian troops? In other words, how much spillover from Syria is there? Ericl ( talk) 20:32, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I have been to Iraq particularly Baghdad and let me tell you, not the best vacation. You see people there are very rude and throw cow poop everywhere. They also make people eat paper towels with soap on there. Although it is not a good vacationing site, it is very interesting and historical. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.120.24 ( talk) 16:03, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
There are major battles going on and the Jihadis control several cities Ericl ( talk) 21:51, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
I think will be better create a new article. Hanibal911 ( talk) 21:59, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure if we can call what is going on in Fallujah and Ramadi a full on civil war, or if they are just two battles raging in Anbar Province. There is no indication that the entire country right now is in a state of civil war, although there is undoubtedly an insurgency. It is less clear if Anbar Province is in a state of civil war, or rebellion right now, or if this conflict can be tied to the spillover from Syria. There is certainly military action beyond an insurgency going on in those two cities at this point and the battles probably deserve their own independent articles. -- Kuzwa ( talk) 23:18, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
I Agree. let's spread the article due to its Escalation( talk) 21:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.147.27 ( talk)
the last escalation in Anbar and Baghdad can lead this one to become a real war — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.151.190 ( talk) 02:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
This isn't an insurgency anymore as militants have captured and held territory including cities in the west of the country. I suggest changing the article's name to Iraqi Civil War as the country's political geography resembles that of Syria's back in summer 2012 when rebels were on the offensive and the UN acknowledged there was in fact a civil war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Helliko ( talk • contribs) 05:00, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
This is not a civil war, this is an international war, spillover from the Syrian Civil War, and with the Iranian invasion, which the Republican Guard helped take back Tikrit, IT could be a WORLD WAR. Like the Sino-Japanese war from 1931-39 was actually part of World War II. Ericl ( talk) 13:51, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
I hope Freepsbane will follow WP:BRD and discuss in the talk page instead of edit warring. Syria has been launching airstrikes against ISIS forces in Syrian soil for a while. This does not make Syria involved in the war in Iraq. Intelligence sharing (if this is true) will make Syria at most a supporting country (like the US).-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 20:57, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
The problem with the infobox is more than just the role of Syria, it appears that the government and the Shia militias are not on opposing sides anymore and it seems like the Kurds are on their own side now, I think the entire infobox should be rewritten. Charles Essie ( talk) 19:47, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
Any ideas? Reaper7 ( talk) 16:16, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
i have no idea why there's very small updates about Iraq. its suspicious— Preceding unsigned comment added by ahendra ( talk • contribs) 21:31, 10 June 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.151.190 ( talk)
Well in all fairness I haven't seen "Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal)" much in the news. If we're going with the most common name Iraq War would have to be it. "Iraq War (2011-2014)" would be the most appropriate name by your standards. Freepsbane ( talk) 16:49, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Okay folks, now we're "spiraling towards civil war" ourselves. im out of this debate. since when the title was more important than content? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ahendra ( talk • contribs) 21:31, 10 June 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.151.190 ( talk)
Personally, I think a good title would be "Iraq War (2011–present)", especially considering that this is really a continuation of the same war that's been going since 2003, just like the War in Afghanistan (2001–present) is the continuation of the same war that's been going since 1978. Charles Essie ( talk) 21:26, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I would like to invite editors to comment at RfC proposal on Iraqi Kurdistan's level of autonomy, essentially resolving whether Iraqi Kurdistan should or shouldn't be added to the "other Dependent territories" under Asia topic. GreyShark ( dibra) 18:12, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
The infobox needs to be rewritten, it currently lists the government forces and the Shia militias as separate belligerents, that has not been the case for some time, I also think that maybe the Kurds should be considered a separate belligerent at this point. Charles Essie ( talk) 17:57, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
what About Muqtada Al-Sadr Shiite Militia? it seems they at war with Maliki too — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahendra ( talk • contribs) 15:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
yes they are. just check Al-Jazeera or Al Arabiya. or maybe Google with keywords: Mahmoud Al-Sarkhi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahendra ( talk • contribs) 18:40, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Apparently Baath has declared war on ISIS.. BAS News is a Kurdish media company. -- TIAYN ( talk) 15:48, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Qatar, the largest supporter of Sunni terrorism in the world, actively supports ISIS and other Sunni terrorist organizations, such as Hamas, Al-Qaeda (including its various branches across the globe), and others. Thisissparta12345 ( talk) 07:34, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
This name is ridiculous. The conflict has morphed into a full scale war with front lines near constant heavy combat. Iraqi Civil War, Iraq Conflict, War in Mesopotamia whatever, but it's certainly not an insurgency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.242.84.69 ( talk) 23:02, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Basically it is a Civil War. Iraqi Civil War fits better than Iraqi insurgency (2011-present) Helliko ( talk) 23:16, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
As the Iraqi Ba'ath party has declared war on ISIS, and other factions such as Ansar al-Islam and Al-Nusra are also fighting with ISIS, should the Islamic State be separated from the other more mainstream and indigenous groups for the sake of clarity? StanTheMan87 ( talk) 08:44, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
We have to admit that there is a mess concerning this subject on Wikipedia and WP:OR-like articles have showed up recently, such as Spillover of the Syrian Civil War, as well as a campaignbox without a parent article which was thankfully redirected. In my opinion such articles are damaging our encyclopedia and a decision has to be made now. Some might disagree with the title of the proposed new article, but this is not our main concern now. We clearly have a new conflict that deserves an article of its own, since the intensity of the current fighting in this recent escalation (along with the Anbar campaign (2013–14)) is entirely different from that of the past four years since the US' withdrawal. Fitzcarmalan ( talk) 15:52, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi there,
As a reader and admirer of many people work here, I propose the following:
See War in Somalia for similar example.
Cheers, -- 78.0.110.32 ( talk) 13:49, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
Agreed, things are great as they are. Why do people keep insisting on new articles and/or new names, when we can still add a lot of content to the already existing ones? -- Skycycle ( talk) 17:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
If a country supports KRG with humanitarian aid as Denmark and the Netherlands [2] does, should they be added in the infobox? Right now I've added Denmark (humanitarian aid) with the countries supporting KRG with millitary aid. -- Ahmetyal ( talk) 21:26, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
This article is not up to date on the Iraqi army's numbers. Back in June, 90,000 Iraqi soldiers deserted, as has been said on wikipedia. Not only that, but thousands have also been killed or captured. I recommend we reduce the size of the Iraqi army to 200,000 instead of 300,000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.84.222.21 ( talk) 02:16, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Let's change the name of THIS article to Iraqi insurgency (2011–2013) Ericl ( talk) 22:31, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
This article entitles the conflict as an insurgency but a related template uses the title Template talk:Armed Iraqi groups in the Iraq War and the Iraq Civil War. I think that either one type of wording or the other should be used and would appreciate comments. Reference to an "Iraq Civil War" or an "Iraqi Civil War" would be analogous with the "Syrian Civil War" but "Iraqi insurgency" is more commonly used. GregKaye âœâ™ª 12:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
The U.S. Army uses five criteria to recognize civil war: 1) The contestants must control territory; (yes) 2) there must be a functioning government; (sort of) 3) each side must enjoy some foreign recognition; (no) 4) the sides should have identifiable and regular armed forces; (yes) and 5) they should engage in major military operations. (yes) [3] the analysis is from summer 2007, the yes/nos are mine based on my assessment of the 2014 situation. Legacypac ( talk) 17:08, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I think this article should end just before the summer 2014 ISIS invasion of Iraq. Anything after should have an article of its own as the scale of events that follow are too big and comprehensive to be labelled with the simple sporadic insurgency that we saw during the Iraq War. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozad655 ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Would someone kindly take part in the discussion here regarding whether the existence of Turkish intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant as a stand-alone article or its title are accurate or not. Regards. Fitzcarmalan ( talk) 11:45, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 5 7 13:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Iraqi insurgency (2011–present) →
Iraqi Civil War –
WP:COMMONNAME, per Google Search and Google Scholar results.
kazekagetr
21:16, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Support Comment Iraq is definitely in a civil war right now, both sides hold large amounts of territory and the government has completely lost control of a third of the nation. Whether ISIS is internationally recognized doesn't matter because whether the world likes them or not, they are still a major faction with their own army contesting the government on who is going to rule Iraq. The amount of people killed from violence in Iraq during 2014 was around 25,000, which is too high to be considered a simple insurgency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.53.19 ( talk) 19:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Maybe it's time to create another, broader article, encompassing both the Syrian civil war and the events in Iraq? (Here is an infobox I made. Mainly because I wanted to practice making infoboxes, but it could be used as an early template I guess.)
Syria-Iraq Civil War | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Part of Arab Spring and Iraq War | |||||||
![]() As of June 2014.
| |||||||
| |||||||
Belligerents | |||||||
Supported by Partially Allied With |
Supported by Partially Allied With | ||||||
Commanders and leaders | |||||||
Partially Allied With |
Partially Allied With | ||||||
Strength | |||||||
Iraqi Government
|
Islamic Front
| ||||||
Casualties and losses | |||||||
Total
|
I Agree, the Entire Articles need to Reform without discarding Old Materials, good Effort for creating the Basis Form By the Way ( 118.136.151.190 ( talk) 17:42, 11 July 2014 (UTC))
Oppose - There is no need for a new article. The Syrian civil war article and this article cover the material just fine.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 20:05, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Oppose - Per Future, also you have not provided sources classifying the conflict as such (Syria-Iraq civil war). At this point, it would be Original Research. EkoGraf ( talk) 20:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Comment - Sooner or later it will be a single war but this move needs more time. I see Irqi Civil War as the best title. 3bdulelah ( talk) 10:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Oppose - the two conflicts are connected and influence each other, but are not one and the same. Also, Iraq arguably already had a civil war during 2006/07, so that would create more confusion. I think the current title is adequate for now. Skycycle ( talk) 15:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
guys. i have new Source for Current Casualties Number http://musingsoniraq.blogspot.com/2014/08/july-2014-over-5000-casualties-in-iraq.html Ahendra ( talk) 20:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Support, but I think a better title would be Iraqi–Syrian War. Charles Essie ( talk) 21:39, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Oppose - There is already an article for the broader War on ISIS. Needless to say, the creation of a new article would be redundant. LightandDark2000 ( talk) 06:54, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Why is Russia listed as a belligerent? Even the two citations attached to it only mention Iraq buying weapons from Russia, not direct Russian participation in the conflict. List Russia as a supporter instead maybe?-- L1A1 FAL ( talk) 17:22, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
This is not an insurgency anymore. Article name should be changed to "Iraqi Civil War" or "Iraq conflict". Anything but "Insurgency", the term implies a conflict of much lower intensity. - Mudos
Much of the content here should be relocated into separate timeline article(s). Then the space could be filled with information about other things, such as the parties involved, the involvement of outside forces, the impact of the conflict, the conflicts between rival insurgents, ect. I think the Syrian Civil War article could serve as a good role model. Charles Essie ( talk) 22:11, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Articles like WWII (a good article) have a narrative of the war in the article (in addition to timeline articles Timeline of World War II). It we are to remove the timelines to their own articles, I think we should still leave a summary for each timeline in this article, so that this article at least has some narrative.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 00:52, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( non-admin closure) Calidum T| C 15:58, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Iraqi insurgency (2011–present) → Iraqi Civil War or Second Iraqi War – This is a conflict between two mainly conventional military forces and their allies (that being ISIS and Iraq), it hasn't been a pure insurgency for a while now; the article should reflect the actual state of the conflict. --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 04:59, 22 April 2015 (UTC) 97.96.33.181 ( talk) 19:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Iraqi insurgency (2011–2013) by UASR ( talk · contribs). I am procedurally closing this RM as a result. Jenks24 ( talk) 17:05, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Iraqi insurgency (2011–present) → Iraq War (2011–present) – The war can not be really called an insurgency in any sense of the word anymore, It's mainly between two conventional militaries and various paramilitary allies (the Iraqi Government and ISIL; the latter of which functions at this point at a state-like structure with a conventional military force using conventional tactics) and the article name should reflect that. --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 07:57, 26 May 2015 (UTC) 97.96.33.181 ( talk) 06:13, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree with EkoGraf's proposal to close this article as Iraqi insurgency (2011–13) and to create a new article named Iraq War (2014–present). This also means that Iraq War should be moved to Iraq War (2003–2011), because saying that the conflict in Iraq ended when American troops withdrew from the country is US government PoV which Wikipedia is not obliged to follow. Many sources do refer to the current escalation as a "war". [10] [11] [12] [13] Here are the changes I propose:
Fitzcarmalan ( talk) 13:01, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Of course, it's probably an imperfect result, but "Iraq War" seems to be the most common term used for the present conflict. Furthermore, it can be said that the war never truly ended in 2011, the insurgency continued well past the US exit in that year; only really ending when the conflict became a conventional war between Iraq and ISIS after the latter's invasion last year. 97.96.33.181 ( talk) 04:48, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 ( talk) 15:32, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Iraqi insurgency (2011–2013) →
Iraq War (2011–present) – This is merely a pagse of a protracted Iraq War. There is no need to differentiate this from the other one between 2003-2011. If there is no connection between the two then it should be debated. --Relisted.
George Ho (
talk) 00:58, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Shhhhwwww!! (
talk)
13:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Oppose Also, read the above discussion. Clear consensus was reached on the current title and to separate it from the 2014-present conflict. EkoGraf ( talk) 23:09, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
Above, I suggested the creation of an umbrella article for Iraq's now twelve-year-old war (possibly titled Iraq War (2003–present) or War in Iraq (2003–present), or simply Iraq War or War in Iraq). As with the War in Afghanistan (1978–present), what we've seen in Iraq from 2003 to the present constitutes a single war with multiple phases. After all, we already many umbrella articles for other recent Arab world conflicts (such as Egyptian Crisis (2011–14), Libyan Crisis (2011–present) and Yemeni Crisis (2011–present)). Charles Essie ( talk) 23:17, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Lets first finish the part we all agreed on, the renaming of this article to Iraqi insurgency (2011–2013). And opening a new one for the Iraq war (2014-present). So, anybody going to do it? EkoGraf ( talk) 17:47, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
No because then you should probably name the article Iraq War (1980- Present) which starts with the Iraq-Iran War. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:101:8610:88B1:EA45:AF98:C328 ( talk) 19:05, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Please refer to c:Commons:Administrators'_noticeboard/Blocks_and_protections#Iraq_war_map.2C_revert_warring_and_mediation_of_a_split_may_be_needed. -- Fæ ( talk) 09:32, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
Iraqi insurgency (2011–13). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:52, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
There is a discussion taking place here that might effect this page. Charles Essie ( talk) 21:05, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
After numerous discussions and consensus to create one, an umbrella article for the entire Iraq conflict (2003–present) has finally been created. However, it needs a great deal of work and I am seeking help in expanding it. Charles Essie ( talk) 14:55, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
AED and IED are used without explanation of what they mean or links. This is bad practice 121.98.218.165 ( talk) 07:47, 26 March 2012 (UTC) Martyn
I changed the Casualty section a bit, adding two tables with estimates by the IBC and the Iraqi government. I am still looking for two Iraqi estimates from December 2011 and February 2012, but other than that it would be great if someone with more knowledge takes a look at the tables and plays a bit with them. I know they could fit the article much better, but my knowledge in the area is limited, so please if you have any ideas, share them right here. Skycycle ( talk) 00:28, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
You may have noticed the recent (unauthorized and lacking consensus) move of the page to Iraqi insurgency (2011-present) - just to let everyone know, I have started a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents due to the edits done by User: Charles Essie. This has, of course, been discussed before - and post-US phase makes a lot more sense than just slapping a year on it and calling it quits, since it's what characterises the insurgency nowadays, and the conflict has changed. Regardless, hopefully soon some sort of action will be taken against this account, and it will be done and dealt with. Skycycle ( talk) 16:11, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
I do most of the editing on List of terrorist incidents, 2012 - it would be easier to use that article and the already sourced attacks to fill in the list of attacks by month in this article. If anyone wants to do the first few months, it would be great - if not, I will eventually get down to it, but towards the end of the year.
In addition to this, I removed the estimates for the size of Sunni and Shi'ite groups. This is something that needs to be researched, since the figures on most other wikipedia articles are ones from 2006-2008, when the insurgency was much stronger. Also, a few of the Shi'ite groups have been disbanded or are in a temporary "truce".
Lastly, we would make great use of a few photos, or at least one for the header box. Skycycle ( talk) 16:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Suggestion WRT the opening paragraph: "Since the U.S. military's withdrawal, the level of violence has risen,.." -- this seems to be contradicted by the table and chart in the section #Iraq_Body_Count . Perhaps replace with something along the lines of "although the level of violence seems to have stabilised since US forces withdrew, the prospect of a civil war has not abated"Â ? I'm not an expert on the topic so there's undoubtedly room for improving that wording, though, which is why I didn't make the edit. Comments?
imipak
I suggest the creation of a newer, broader article titled Aftermath of the Iraq War. I should include details of all that's happened in Iraq after the end of the occupation, after all there is a page titled Aftermath of the Libyan civil war and the Iraq War's aftermath has been just as important. (P.S. sorry about the unathorized change to the title, it will never happen again). Charles Essie ( talk) 00:55, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
I now feel that Skycycle is right, the Iraq War is not over, it did not end with the coalition withdrawal. Charles Essie ( talk) 13:46, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
The figures in this article are almost useless because the word "casualty" is used inconsistently sometimes to mean "death", sometimes in its correct meaning (death or serious injury). I even found the bizarre euphemism "mortal casualty" for "death". Many times the tables that say "Iraq casualties" clearly mean deaths, since they are quoted from the IBC (which usually tracks deaths specifically), but sometimes this is clearly not the case.
Also, in one place there's a table that is described above it as "Following are the monthly IBC Project civilian death totals, from the US pullout in December 2011 onwards" and below it as "The numbers include civilians, as well as members of the Iraqi Army and police forces." Huh??? They either do or do not include non-civilians. Fix this shit!
67.198.70.33 ( talk) 06:15, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
How many killed are by those groups who've joined the rebels in Syria and how many have been killed by pro-syrian troops? In other words, how much spillover from Syria is there? Ericl ( talk) 20:32, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I have been to Iraq particularly Baghdad and let me tell you, not the best vacation. You see people there are very rude and throw cow poop everywhere. They also make people eat paper towels with soap on there. Although it is not a good vacationing site, it is very interesting and historical. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.120.24 ( talk) 16:03, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
There are major battles going on and the Jihadis control several cities Ericl ( talk) 21:51, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
I think will be better create a new article. Hanibal911 ( talk) 21:59, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure if we can call what is going on in Fallujah and Ramadi a full on civil war, or if they are just two battles raging in Anbar Province. There is no indication that the entire country right now is in a state of civil war, although there is undoubtedly an insurgency. It is less clear if Anbar Province is in a state of civil war, or rebellion right now, or if this conflict can be tied to the spillover from Syria. There is certainly military action beyond an insurgency going on in those two cities at this point and the battles probably deserve their own independent articles. -- Kuzwa ( talk) 23:18, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
I Agree. let's spread the article due to its Escalation( talk) 21:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.147.27 ( talk)
the last escalation in Anbar and Baghdad can lead this one to become a real war — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.151.190 ( talk) 02:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
This isn't an insurgency anymore as militants have captured and held territory including cities in the west of the country. I suggest changing the article's name to Iraqi Civil War as the country's political geography resembles that of Syria's back in summer 2012 when rebels were on the offensive and the UN acknowledged there was in fact a civil war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Helliko ( talk • contribs) 05:00, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
This is not a civil war, this is an international war, spillover from the Syrian Civil War, and with the Iranian invasion, which the Republican Guard helped take back Tikrit, IT could be a WORLD WAR. Like the Sino-Japanese war from 1931-39 was actually part of World War II. Ericl ( talk) 13:51, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
I hope Freepsbane will follow WP:BRD and discuss in the talk page instead of edit warring. Syria has been launching airstrikes against ISIS forces in Syrian soil for a while. This does not make Syria involved in the war in Iraq. Intelligence sharing (if this is true) will make Syria at most a supporting country (like the US).-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 20:57, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
The problem with the infobox is more than just the role of Syria, it appears that the government and the Shia militias are not on opposing sides anymore and it seems like the Kurds are on their own side now, I think the entire infobox should be rewritten. Charles Essie ( talk) 19:47, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
Any ideas? Reaper7 ( talk) 16:16, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
i have no idea why there's very small updates about Iraq. its suspicious— Preceding unsigned comment added by ahendra ( talk • contribs) 21:31, 10 June 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.151.190 ( talk)
Well in all fairness I haven't seen "Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal)" much in the news. If we're going with the most common name Iraq War would have to be it. "Iraq War (2011-2014)" would be the most appropriate name by your standards. Freepsbane ( talk) 16:49, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Okay folks, now we're "spiraling towards civil war" ourselves. im out of this debate. since when the title was more important than content? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ahendra ( talk • contribs) 21:31, 10 June 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.136.151.190 ( talk)
Personally, I think a good title would be "Iraq War (2011–present)", especially considering that this is really a continuation of the same war that's been going since 2003, just like the War in Afghanistan (2001–present) is the continuation of the same war that's been going since 1978. Charles Essie ( talk) 21:26, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I would like to invite editors to comment at RfC proposal on Iraqi Kurdistan's level of autonomy, essentially resolving whether Iraqi Kurdistan should or shouldn't be added to the "other Dependent territories" under Asia topic. GreyShark ( dibra) 18:12, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
The infobox needs to be rewritten, it currently lists the government forces and the Shia militias as separate belligerents, that has not been the case for some time, I also think that maybe the Kurds should be considered a separate belligerent at this point. Charles Essie ( talk) 17:57, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
what About Muqtada Al-Sadr Shiite Militia? it seems they at war with Maliki too — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahendra ( talk • contribs) 15:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
yes they are. just check Al-Jazeera or Al Arabiya. or maybe Google with keywords: Mahmoud Al-Sarkhi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahendra ( talk • contribs) 18:40, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Apparently Baath has declared war on ISIS.. BAS News is a Kurdish media company. -- TIAYN ( talk) 15:48, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Qatar, the largest supporter of Sunni terrorism in the world, actively supports ISIS and other Sunni terrorist organizations, such as Hamas, Al-Qaeda (including its various branches across the globe), and others. Thisissparta12345 ( talk) 07:34, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
This name is ridiculous. The conflict has morphed into a full scale war with front lines near constant heavy combat. Iraqi Civil War, Iraq Conflict, War in Mesopotamia whatever, but it's certainly not an insurgency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.242.84.69 ( talk) 23:02, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Basically it is a Civil War. Iraqi Civil War fits better than Iraqi insurgency (2011-present) Helliko ( talk) 23:16, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
As the Iraqi Ba'ath party has declared war on ISIS, and other factions such as Ansar al-Islam and Al-Nusra are also fighting with ISIS, should the Islamic State be separated from the other more mainstream and indigenous groups for the sake of clarity? StanTheMan87 ( talk) 08:44, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
We have to admit that there is a mess concerning this subject on Wikipedia and WP:OR-like articles have showed up recently, such as Spillover of the Syrian Civil War, as well as a campaignbox without a parent article which was thankfully redirected. In my opinion such articles are damaging our encyclopedia and a decision has to be made now. Some might disagree with the title of the proposed new article, but this is not our main concern now. We clearly have a new conflict that deserves an article of its own, since the intensity of the current fighting in this recent escalation (along with the Anbar campaign (2013–14)) is entirely different from that of the past four years since the US' withdrawal. Fitzcarmalan ( talk) 15:52, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi there,
As a reader and admirer of many people work here, I propose the following:
See War in Somalia for similar example.
Cheers, -- 78.0.110.32 ( talk) 13:49, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
Agreed, things are great as they are. Why do people keep insisting on new articles and/or new names, when we can still add a lot of content to the already existing ones? -- Skycycle ( talk) 17:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
If a country supports KRG with humanitarian aid as Denmark and the Netherlands [2] does, should they be added in the infobox? Right now I've added Denmark (humanitarian aid) with the countries supporting KRG with millitary aid. -- Ahmetyal ( talk) 21:26, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
This article is not up to date on the Iraqi army's numbers. Back in June, 90,000 Iraqi soldiers deserted, as has been said on wikipedia. Not only that, but thousands have also been killed or captured. I recommend we reduce the size of the Iraqi army to 200,000 instead of 300,000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.84.222.21 ( talk) 02:16, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Let's change the name of THIS article to Iraqi insurgency (2011–2013) Ericl ( talk) 22:31, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
This article entitles the conflict as an insurgency but a related template uses the title Template talk:Armed Iraqi groups in the Iraq War and the Iraq Civil War. I think that either one type of wording or the other should be used and would appreciate comments. Reference to an "Iraq Civil War" or an "Iraqi Civil War" would be analogous with the "Syrian Civil War" but "Iraqi insurgency" is more commonly used. GregKaye âœâ™ª 12:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
The U.S. Army uses five criteria to recognize civil war: 1) The contestants must control territory; (yes) 2) there must be a functioning government; (sort of) 3) each side must enjoy some foreign recognition; (no) 4) the sides should have identifiable and regular armed forces; (yes) and 5) they should engage in major military operations. (yes) [3] the analysis is from summer 2007, the yes/nos are mine based on my assessment of the 2014 situation. Legacypac ( talk) 17:08, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I think this article should end just before the summer 2014 ISIS invasion of Iraq. Anything after should have an article of its own as the scale of events that follow are too big and comprehensive to be labelled with the simple sporadic insurgency that we saw during the Iraq War. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozad655 ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Would someone kindly take part in the discussion here regarding whether the existence of Turkish intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant as a stand-alone article or its title are accurate or not. Regards. Fitzcarmalan ( talk) 11:45, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 5 7 13:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Iraqi insurgency (2011–present) →
Iraqi Civil War –
WP:COMMONNAME, per Google Search and Google Scholar results.
kazekagetr
21:16, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Support Comment Iraq is definitely in a civil war right now, both sides hold large amounts of territory and the government has completely lost control of a third of the nation. Whether ISIS is internationally recognized doesn't matter because whether the world likes them or not, they are still a major faction with their own army contesting the government on who is going to rule Iraq. The amount of people killed from violence in Iraq during 2014 was around 25,000, which is too high to be considered a simple insurgency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.53.19 ( talk) 19:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Maybe it's time to create another, broader article, encompassing both the Syrian civil war and the events in Iraq? (Here is an infobox I made. Mainly because I wanted to practice making infoboxes, but it could be used as an early template I guess.)
Syria-Iraq Civil War | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Part of Arab Spring and Iraq War | |||||||
![]() As of June 2014.
| |||||||
| |||||||
Belligerents | |||||||
Supported by Partially Allied With |
Supported by Partially Allied With | ||||||
Commanders and leaders | |||||||
Partially Allied With |
Partially Allied With | ||||||
Strength | |||||||
Iraqi Government
|
Islamic Front
| ||||||
Casualties and losses | |||||||
Total
|
I Agree, the Entire Articles need to Reform without discarding Old Materials, good Effort for creating the Basis Form By the Way ( 118.136.151.190 ( talk) 17:42, 11 July 2014 (UTC))
Oppose - There is no need for a new article. The Syrian civil war article and this article cover the material just fine.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 20:05, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Oppose - Per Future, also you have not provided sources classifying the conflict as such (Syria-Iraq civil war). At this point, it would be Original Research. EkoGraf ( talk) 20:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Comment - Sooner or later it will be a single war but this move needs more time. I see Irqi Civil War as the best title. 3bdulelah ( talk) 10:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Oppose - the two conflicts are connected and influence each other, but are not one and the same. Also, Iraq arguably already had a civil war during 2006/07, so that would create more confusion. I think the current title is adequate for now. Skycycle ( talk) 15:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
guys. i have new Source for Current Casualties Number http://musingsoniraq.blogspot.com/2014/08/july-2014-over-5000-casualties-in-iraq.html Ahendra ( talk) 20:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Support, but I think a better title would be Iraqi–Syrian War. Charles Essie ( talk) 21:39, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
Oppose - There is already an article for the broader War on ISIS. Needless to say, the creation of a new article would be redundant. LightandDark2000 ( talk) 06:54, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Why is Russia listed as a belligerent? Even the two citations attached to it only mention Iraq buying weapons from Russia, not direct Russian participation in the conflict. List Russia as a supporter instead maybe?-- L1A1 FAL ( talk) 17:22, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
This is not an insurgency anymore. Article name should be changed to "Iraqi Civil War" or "Iraq conflict". Anything but "Insurgency", the term implies a conflict of much lower intensity. - Mudos
Much of the content here should be relocated into separate timeline article(s). Then the space could be filled with information about other things, such as the parties involved, the involvement of outside forces, the impact of the conflict, the conflicts between rival insurgents, ect. I think the Syrian Civil War article could serve as a good role model. Charles Essie ( talk) 22:11, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Articles like WWII (a good article) have a narrative of the war in the article (in addition to timeline articles Timeline of World War II). It we are to remove the timelines to their own articles, I think we should still leave a summary for each timeline in this article, so that this article at least has some narrative.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 00:52, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( non-admin closure) Calidum T| C 15:58, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Iraqi insurgency (2011–present) → Iraqi Civil War or Second Iraqi War – This is a conflict between two mainly conventional military forces and their allies (that being ISIS and Iraq), it hasn't been a pure insurgency for a while now; the article should reflect the actual state of the conflict. --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 04:59, 22 April 2015 (UTC) 97.96.33.181 ( talk) 19:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Iraqi insurgency (2011–2013) by UASR ( talk · contribs). I am procedurally closing this RM as a result. Jenks24 ( talk) 17:05, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Iraqi insurgency (2011–present) → Iraq War (2011–present) – The war can not be really called an insurgency in any sense of the word anymore, It's mainly between two conventional militaries and various paramilitary allies (the Iraqi Government and ISIL; the latter of which functions at this point at a state-like structure with a conventional military force using conventional tactics) and the article name should reflect that. --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 07:57, 26 May 2015 (UTC) 97.96.33.181 ( talk) 06:13, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree with EkoGraf's proposal to close this article as Iraqi insurgency (2011–13) and to create a new article named Iraq War (2014–present). This also means that Iraq War should be moved to Iraq War (2003–2011), because saying that the conflict in Iraq ended when American troops withdrew from the country is US government PoV which Wikipedia is not obliged to follow. Many sources do refer to the current escalation as a "war". [10] [11] [12] [13] Here are the changes I propose:
Fitzcarmalan ( talk) 13:01, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Of course, it's probably an imperfect result, but "Iraq War" seems to be the most common term used for the present conflict. Furthermore, it can be said that the war never truly ended in 2011, the insurgency continued well past the US exit in that year; only really ending when the conflict became a conventional war between Iraq and ISIS after the latter's invasion last year. 97.96.33.181 ( talk) 04:48, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 ( talk) 15:32, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Iraqi insurgency (2011–2013) →
Iraq War (2011–present) – This is merely a pagse of a protracted Iraq War. There is no need to differentiate this from the other one between 2003-2011. If there is no connection between the two then it should be debated. --Relisted.
George Ho (
talk) 00:58, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Shhhhwwww!! (
talk)
13:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Oppose Also, read the above discussion. Clear consensus was reached on the current title and to separate it from the 2014-present conflict. EkoGraf ( talk) 23:09, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
Above, I suggested the creation of an umbrella article for Iraq's now twelve-year-old war (possibly titled Iraq War (2003–present) or War in Iraq (2003–present), or simply Iraq War or War in Iraq). As with the War in Afghanistan (1978–present), what we've seen in Iraq from 2003 to the present constitutes a single war with multiple phases. After all, we already many umbrella articles for other recent Arab world conflicts (such as Egyptian Crisis (2011–14), Libyan Crisis (2011–present) and Yemeni Crisis (2011–present)). Charles Essie ( talk) 23:17, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Lets first finish the part we all agreed on, the renaming of this article to Iraqi insurgency (2011–2013). And opening a new one for the Iraq war (2014-present). So, anybody going to do it? EkoGraf ( talk) 17:47, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
No because then you should probably name the article Iraq War (1980- Present) which starts with the Iraq-Iran War. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:101:8610:88B1:EA45:AF98:C328 ( talk) 19:05, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Please refer to c:Commons:Administrators'_noticeboard/Blocks_and_protections#Iraq_war_map.2C_revert_warring_and_mediation_of_a_split_may_be_needed. -- Fæ ( talk) 09:32, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
Iraqi insurgency (2011–13). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:52, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
There is a discussion taking place here that might effect this page. Charles Essie ( talk) 21:05, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
After numerous discussions and consensus to create one, an umbrella article for the entire Iraq conflict (2003–present) has finally been created. However, it needs a great deal of work and I am seeking help in expanding it. Charles Essie ( talk) 14:55, 20 October 2017 (UTC)