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Please restore the article Iraqi Kurdistan, as the current REDIRECT to Kurdistan is not accurate, since the former only refers to the Kurdish areas of northern Iraq. Also the REDIRECT in the Kurdistan (disambiguation) is also wrong. It should be Kurdistan Region of Iraq or Iraqi Kurdistan. Also the name for the existing article Kurdish Autonomous Region isnot accurate since this name was only used during the former Ba'ath regime in the 70's and 80's. Such a term is not used in Iraq anymore. Here is the reference to the name of the region in the new constitution of Iraq:
CHAPTER ONE: REGIONS
Article 113:
First: This Constitution shall approbate the region of Kurdistan and its existing regional and federal authorities, at the time this constitution comes into force.
Article 137:
Legislation enacted in the region of Kurdistan since 1992 shall remain in force, and decisions issued by the government of the region of Kurdistan - including court decisions and agreements - shall be considered valid unless it is amended or annulled pursuant to the laws of the region of Kurdistan by the competent entity in the region, provided that they do not contradict with the constitution.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/12/AR2005101201450.html Heja Helweda 23:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
However, the Dehkhoda Dictionary reports Ardashir I of Persia to be the son of a Kurdish mother from Kurds in the Fars Province. And Dehkhoda calls the Kurds "an Iranian tribe of Aryan origin".(Deh. entry for "Kurd", 2006 ed.)
Is Dehkhoda an authoritative source of history? I don't think so. He was only a good linguist with a knowledge of folklore. Was he a specialist on human race and genetics, of course not. This Aryan racial theory has big problems, and there was a heated discussion on the Kurds page about this over the last few days. (Please refer there for more info.)
Some Kurdish nationalists are also claiming Sassanids to be Kurdish, but I seriously doubt that. Everywhere Sassanids are depicted as persians, and they hailed from the FARS province (traditional center of persians like Achamaenids) and their language was Pahlavi. I have read Pahlavi texts (like the one published by Sadegh Hedayat), however I should say it is much closer to persian and hardly resembles Kurdish. Also if Sassanids were Kurdish then why they tended to live in the lowlands of Mesopotamia, like around Ctesiphon? with a very hot climate? Kurds always lived close to the Zagrus/Taurus mountain ranges, as they don't like to live in the desert, and the region around Ctesiphon or Khuzestan,... in Kurdish eyes are pretty much desert. (dry and hot climate, no mountains, no snow fall,...)
Finally, Are you gonna change the Sassanid page and explicitly say they were Kurdish?. I don't think people will buy that, due to lack of evidence. However if you still believe in that, then it is better to find a concrete proof, like a reference written in the Sassanid period,(like the one I provided in this article) with a clear indication that Sassanids were Kurds. Heja Helweda 03:30, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
(--About 20 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material added by 24.148.188.235 ( talk) on 8 September 2008 has been deleted, because WP is not a soapbox. Moonraker12 ( talk) 16:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)
This should be included in the article Kurds or History of the Kurds. But it is not appropriate for the present article, since Iranian Kurdistan is a geographic area which does not cover Fars province in southern Iran. This is like including Republic of Mahabad in the Kurdistan Province (Iran). Though the Republic is undoubtedly part of the Kurdish history, but it was not located inside the present borders of the Kurdistan Province. You can see the history of that page [1]. Heja Helweda 23:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
(--About 16 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material put here by
24.148.188.235 (
talk)
between 22 and 24 August 2008 has been deleted, because
WP is not a soapbox.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
16:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)
I would like some academic references which refer to this region as Iranian Kurdistan, preferably not done by Kurdish nationalists -- Kash 18:11, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I suggest we create a page called Geopolitical disputes regarding Kurdistan and put all sides of each argument there. Then, at the top of each disputed Kurd or Kurdistan related page, we can put a link which says "See also Geopolitical disputes regarding Kurdistan". What about this? Merecat 22:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
All, please see the discussion at Category talk:Kurdistan (Which articles should have the tag 'Category:Kurdistan'), and weigh-in if you like. Thanks, -- Moby 14:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have a source for it? Also shouldn't the article mention a few things about the looting and masscres of Iranian soldiers in Kurdish areas in Iran during the beginning of the revolution? Nokhodi 04:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Did Seymour Hersh make an error (since it would probably be easier for the US to infiltrate through the Iraq and Turkey borders than the Turkmenistan border)?
Did Amnesty just make a chance error? Or did it just badly summarise the (apparent) fact that most Kurds in Iran live in the north-west, but some live in the north-east?
In any case, this present article - Iranian Kurdistan - doesn't seem to talk about the Kurds in North Khorasan and the Demographics of Iran maps. Maybe someone who knows should add more info?
Hmmmm... both of those maps are CIA maps (at least, as far as wikipedia licensing questions are concerned).
Maybe the CIA is wrong?
Boud 14:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I am removing the mention of Luristan from the end of the second paragraph. Luristan is not a predominately Kurdish province; its predominately Luri :). . —Preceding unsigned comment added by DFront21 ( talk • contribs) 00:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
[3] [4] Isnt this a Sunni mosque? It has one Minaret... Khosrow II 04:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
The title of this article is wrong, it discusses the history of Kurds and Iranians from very early times and even when Kurds were not under Iranian rule. The best possible alternative is => Kurdo-Iranian relations. Besides although we have a Kurdistan 'in Iran' there is nothing like Iranian Kurdistan (exept for the new province of Kurdistan). This also goes for the so-called Turkish Kurdistan. this is not an accurate term. a better term can be => Kurdo-Turkish relations.
Awat 12:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
The stuf used for this article deserves nothing but Kurdo-Iranian relations. What is this so-called 'Iranian Kurdistan'? Since when it has been known as such. Why it is called Iranian Kurdistan but not Kurdistan region ruled by the state of Iran? At least let's rename it to Kurdistan - Iran. Awat 02:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
((--About 24 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material put here by 24.148.188.235 ( talk) between 4 August and 19 August 2008 has been deleted, because WP is not a soapbox. Moonraker12 ( talk) 16:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 02:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Iranian Kurdistan → Kurds in Iran — The intended scope is info relevant to "Kurds in Iran" just like how it is on Kurds in Turkey and Kurds in Syria. Hence the title of "Kurds in Iran" seems more suitable as that seems to be the intended scope. -- Cat chi? 13:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC) — Cat chi? 13:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.(This unsourced opinion added anonymously by 24.148.188.235 ( talk) on 22 December 2008 has been deleted, because WP is still not a soapbox. Moonraker12 ( talk) 10:35, 22 January 2009 (UTC))
Urmia is the capital of the West Azerbaijan Province. Azerbaijanis (86% [1] - over 90% [2]) and Kurds are the two main ethnic groups in the city followed by Assyrian and Armenian minorities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Axan.bulut ( talk • contribs) 14:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Iranian Kordestan redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 2006 March 24. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Please restore the article Iraqi Kurdistan, as the current REDIRECT to Kurdistan is not accurate, since the former only refers to the Kurdish areas of northern Iraq. Also the REDIRECT in the Kurdistan (disambiguation) is also wrong. It should be Kurdistan Region of Iraq or Iraqi Kurdistan. Also the name for the existing article Kurdish Autonomous Region isnot accurate since this name was only used during the former Ba'ath regime in the 70's and 80's. Such a term is not used in Iraq anymore. Here is the reference to the name of the region in the new constitution of Iraq:
CHAPTER ONE: REGIONS
Article 113:
First: This Constitution shall approbate the region of Kurdistan and its existing regional and federal authorities, at the time this constitution comes into force.
Article 137:
Legislation enacted in the region of Kurdistan since 1992 shall remain in force, and decisions issued by the government of the region of Kurdistan - including court decisions and agreements - shall be considered valid unless it is amended or annulled pursuant to the laws of the region of Kurdistan by the competent entity in the region, provided that they do not contradict with the constitution.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/12/AR2005101201450.html Heja Helweda 23:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
However, the Dehkhoda Dictionary reports Ardashir I of Persia to be the son of a Kurdish mother from Kurds in the Fars Province. And Dehkhoda calls the Kurds "an Iranian tribe of Aryan origin".(Deh. entry for "Kurd", 2006 ed.)
Is Dehkhoda an authoritative source of history? I don't think so. He was only a good linguist with a knowledge of folklore. Was he a specialist on human race and genetics, of course not. This Aryan racial theory has big problems, and there was a heated discussion on the Kurds page about this over the last few days. (Please refer there for more info.)
Some Kurdish nationalists are also claiming Sassanids to be Kurdish, but I seriously doubt that. Everywhere Sassanids are depicted as persians, and they hailed from the FARS province (traditional center of persians like Achamaenids) and their language was Pahlavi. I have read Pahlavi texts (like the one published by Sadegh Hedayat), however I should say it is much closer to persian and hardly resembles Kurdish. Also if Sassanids were Kurdish then why they tended to live in the lowlands of Mesopotamia, like around Ctesiphon? with a very hot climate? Kurds always lived close to the Zagrus/Taurus mountain ranges, as they don't like to live in the desert, and the region around Ctesiphon or Khuzestan,... in Kurdish eyes are pretty much desert. (dry and hot climate, no mountains, no snow fall,...)
Finally, Are you gonna change the Sassanid page and explicitly say they were Kurdish?. I don't think people will buy that, due to lack of evidence. However if you still believe in that, then it is better to find a concrete proof, like a reference written in the Sassanid period,(like the one I provided in this article) with a clear indication that Sassanids were Kurds. Heja Helweda 03:30, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
(--About 20 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material added by 24.148.188.235 ( talk) on 8 September 2008 has been deleted, because WP is not a soapbox. Moonraker12 ( talk) 16:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)
This should be included in the article Kurds or History of the Kurds. But it is not appropriate for the present article, since Iranian Kurdistan is a geographic area which does not cover Fars province in southern Iran. This is like including Republic of Mahabad in the Kurdistan Province (Iran). Though the Republic is undoubtedly part of the Kurdish history, but it was not located inside the present borders of the Kurdistan Province. You can see the history of that page [1]. Heja Helweda 23:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
(--About 16 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material put here by
24.148.188.235 (
talk)
between 22 and 24 August 2008 has been deleted, because
WP is not a soapbox.
Moonraker12 (
talk)
16:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)
I would like some academic references which refer to this region as Iranian Kurdistan, preferably not done by Kurdish nationalists -- Kash 18:11, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I suggest we create a page called Geopolitical disputes regarding Kurdistan and put all sides of each argument there. Then, at the top of each disputed Kurd or Kurdistan related page, we can put a link which says "See also Geopolitical disputes regarding Kurdistan". What about this? Merecat 22:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
All, please see the discussion at Category talk:Kurdistan (Which articles should have the tag 'Category:Kurdistan'), and weigh-in if you like. Thanks, -- Moby 14:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have a source for it? Also shouldn't the article mention a few things about the looting and masscres of Iranian soldiers in Kurdish areas in Iran during the beginning of the revolution? Nokhodi 04:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Did Seymour Hersh make an error (since it would probably be easier for the US to infiltrate through the Iraq and Turkey borders than the Turkmenistan border)?
Did Amnesty just make a chance error? Or did it just badly summarise the (apparent) fact that most Kurds in Iran live in the north-west, but some live in the north-east?
In any case, this present article - Iranian Kurdistan - doesn't seem to talk about the Kurds in North Khorasan and the Demographics of Iran maps. Maybe someone who knows should add more info?
Hmmmm... both of those maps are CIA maps (at least, as far as wikipedia licensing questions are concerned).
Maybe the CIA is wrong?
Boud 14:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I am removing the mention of Luristan from the end of the second paragraph. Luristan is not a predominately Kurdish province; its predominately Luri :). . —Preceding unsigned comment added by DFront21 ( talk • contribs) 00:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
[3] [4] Isnt this a Sunni mosque? It has one Minaret... Khosrow II 04:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
The title of this article is wrong, it discusses the history of Kurds and Iranians from very early times and even when Kurds were not under Iranian rule. The best possible alternative is => Kurdo-Iranian relations. Besides although we have a Kurdistan 'in Iran' there is nothing like Iranian Kurdistan (exept for the new province of Kurdistan). This also goes for the so-called Turkish Kurdistan. this is not an accurate term. a better term can be => Kurdo-Turkish relations.
Awat 12:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
The stuf used for this article deserves nothing but Kurdo-Iranian relations. What is this so-called 'Iranian Kurdistan'? Since when it has been known as such. Why it is called Iranian Kurdistan but not Kurdistan region ruled by the state of Iran? At least let's rename it to Kurdistan - Iran. Awat 02:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
((--About 24 Kb of unsigned, anonymous material put here by 24.148.188.235 ( talk) between 4 August and 19 August 2008 has been deleted, because WP is not a soapbox. Moonraker12 ( talk) 16:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)--)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 02:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Iranian Kurdistan → Kurds in Iran — The intended scope is info relevant to "Kurds in Iran" just like how it is on Kurds in Turkey and Kurds in Syria. Hence the title of "Kurds in Iran" seems more suitable as that seems to be the intended scope. -- Cat chi? 13:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC) — Cat chi? 13:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.(This unsourced opinion added anonymously by 24.148.188.235 ( talk) on 22 December 2008 has been deleted, because WP is still not a soapbox. Moonraker12 ( talk) 10:35, 22 January 2009 (UTC))
Urmia is the capital of the West Azerbaijan Province. Azerbaijanis (86% [1] - over 90% [2]) and Kurds are the two main ethnic groups in the city followed by Assyrian and Armenian minorities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Axan.bulut ( talk • contribs) 14:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)