Iranian Enlightenment has been listed as one of the
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Reviewer: Cerebellum ( talk · contribs) 10:39, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Hello! I will be reviewing this article. --
Cerebellum (
talk) 10:39, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
I'll place my comments below as I work through the article, no need to do anything until the review is complete. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 11:05, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Iranian thinkers based their work on confronting religious traditions: My only familiarity with this topic comes from Roy Mottahedeh's The Mantle of the Prophet, but he emphasizes the dynamic nature of the religious tradition. Our own article on religious intellectualism in Iran shows how Islam was developing during the 19th century. So not all Iranian thinkers were confronting the tradition, some were reforming it. I think this sentence should be rephrased to something like
Secular Iranian thinkers based their work on confronting religious traditions.
the strictness and intellectual prejudice of some religious people caused intellectual-scientific decline.This is an expression of a POV; if I asked a Shia cleric, they would probably say it was liberal ideas that were causing decline. I think this should be rephrased to avoid using Wikipedia's voice, something like
According to Ali Akbar Velayati, the strictness and intellectual prejudice of some religious people caused intellectual-scientific decline.
As a result, a number of French-speaking princes, students, and literates traveled to France in 1843 to study.So the war ended in 1828, then in 1843 people went to France to study. Why the 15-year gap? Was there a particular reason why they went in 1843?
The economic situation of Iran after the reign of Fath Ali Shah Qajar became a feudal economy due to the rise of Qajar princes throughout Iran.This suggests that the Safavid economy was not feudal - is that correct?
Each toman was equal to 100 pence.I would remove this, it only helps people who are familiar with British currency and presumably the value of 100 pence has changed over time, does it mean 100 pence in the 19th century? The paragraph is fine without it.
Mass'oud Mirza Zell-e Soltan, the brother of Nasser al-Din Shah, took over all of Isfahan and its environs by poisoning and assassinating the Isfahan capitalists and seizing their property.This is quite shocking! I don't doubt you but I'm trying to verify the information, I couldn't find anything about it online. Would you be able to provide the quote from your source where it says this?
Since there was no basis for creating an intellectual society in Qajar IranSorry to beat the same drum again, but the thousands of Shia scholars in Qom constituted an intellectual society, right? Can we change this to
Since there was no basis for creating a secular intellectual society in Qajar Iran?
who according to one version, ordered twenty thousand pairs and according to another version, seventy thousand pairs of people went blind.The English here isn't clear, want to make sure I understand - Agha Mohammad Khan had 20,000 or 70,000 pairs of people blinded, a pair is two people so 40,000 or 140,000? We also need a source for this claim, I did not see anything about it in the Iranica article.
but until the newspaper was banned, there was no censorship in articles and news.When was it banned?
When Amir Kabir limited the power of the clergy, Mirza Abdul-qasem Tehrani opposed him and ordered grant refuge in Shah Abdol-Azim Shrine.I couldn't understand this, could you rephrase the sentence? Who took refuge in the shrine?
He ordered that the incalculable receipts and unreasonable benefits they received from government agencies be cut off.Who is "they"?
They opened the veins of his hands and feet, and after a while of bleeding, Ali Khan Farash pointed to Mir Ghazb. He angrily hit Amir between the two shoulders with his boots. Because Amir hit the ground with a handkerchief in his throat until he died.This was hard for me to understand. Who are Ali Khan Farash and Mir Ghazb? Who hit Amir with his boots? I couldn't understand the last sentence at all, please rephrase it.
the blessing of complete freedom."Blessing" seems non-neutral to me.
he believes that the despotic or oppressive rulers have taken it from us and condemned us to accept their affairs in this world.Non-neutral, please rephrase.
Thanks to these tireless support and efforts"Tireless" is non-neutral.
but, Roshdieh built schools for the general public.Starting a sentence with "but" is not grammatically correct.
Also, the 1906 constitution of Iran in its time was considered one of the most secular laws passed in a parliament among countries."Was considered" is a weasel word, who considered it that?
the tyranny of kings like Naser al-Din Shah"Tyranny" is a non-neutral word.
Although Iraj Mirza was proud of his ancestry, there are poems left in his critique and slander of Mohammad Ali Shah and Ahmad Shah.Does not make sense in English, please revise.
Thus, apart from unreasonable love, hate and prejudice, he had made his intellectual and free-thinking personality his profession.Non-neutral.
Mirza Malkam Khan's passionate views are to some extent a diagram of his influence on Rousseau's ideas.This makes it sound like Mirza Malkam influenced Rousseau.
Today, it has played a much stronger role than neighboring countries in accepting democracy, peaceful coexistence, non-violence, avoiding tyranny, and legalizing affairs.I'm not sure I understand this, you are saying that Iran plays a strong role in accepting democracy and non-violence?
Haydar Khan was finally killed in 1921, his killer was never identified, but it is true that he had many disagreements with Mirza Kuchik Khan.This sentence leaves the reader with the idea that Mirza Kuchick Khan killed him, if that is the intent it is better to just say it with a source and attribution - "Following Haydar Khan's death, his allies accused Mirza Kuchik Khan of assassinating him", or something like that.
Many leftist thinkers in Iran are still influenced by him because the basis of the ideology of communism in Iran is the same moderation that Haydar Khan agreed with.Where in the DW article does it say this?
Eskandari's interest in social justice and equality was rooted more than any influence of European thinkers on European Enlightenment or socialism in Islam.Could not understand this sentence, please rephrase.
They did not have a proper understanding of the backwardness of ordinary people due to their infancy."Backwardness" and "infancy" are non-neutral terms.
@ Amir Ghandi: Thank you for all your work on this article! It was a joy to read and I learned a lot from it. Unfortunately I have to place it on hold for now, it is not at GA level yet. Please see my comments above, let me know if you disagree with anything. Other than the specific comments, the biggest issue is the prose, some mistakes in the grammar. I am determined not to fail it for that reason though - since most of the sources are in Persian, only a Persian speaker like you could have written this article, we need articles like this in English Wikipedia to counter our systemic bias toward the English-speaking world. If you can take care of the issues in my comments above, I will copy edit the article over the next week. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 11:37, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:52, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Iranian Enlightenment has been listed as one of the
Philosophy and religion good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: May 30, 2021. ( Reviewed version). |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Cerebellum ( talk · contribs) 10:39, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Hello! I will be reviewing this article. --
Cerebellum (
talk) 10:39, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
I'll place my comments below as I work through the article, no need to do anything until the review is complete. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 11:05, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Iranian thinkers based their work on confronting religious traditions: My only familiarity with this topic comes from Roy Mottahedeh's The Mantle of the Prophet, but he emphasizes the dynamic nature of the religious tradition. Our own article on religious intellectualism in Iran shows how Islam was developing during the 19th century. So not all Iranian thinkers were confronting the tradition, some were reforming it. I think this sentence should be rephrased to something like
Secular Iranian thinkers based their work on confronting religious traditions.
the strictness and intellectual prejudice of some religious people caused intellectual-scientific decline.This is an expression of a POV; if I asked a Shia cleric, they would probably say it was liberal ideas that were causing decline. I think this should be rephrased to avoid using Wikipedia's voice, something like
According to Ali Akbar Velayati, the strictness and intellectual prejudice of some religious people caused intellectual-scientific decline.
As a result, a number of French-speaking princes, students, and literates traveled to France in 1843 to study.So the war ended in 1828, then in 1843 people went to France to study. Why the 15-year gap? Was there a particular reason why they went in 1843?
The economic situation of Iran after the reign of Fath Ali Shah Qajar became a feudal economy due to the rise of Qajar princes throughout Iran.This suggests that the Safavid economy was not feudal - is that correct?
Each toman was equal to 100 pence.I would remove this, it only helps people who are familiar with British currency and presumably the value of 100 pence has changed over time, does it mean 100 pence in the 19th century? The paragraph is fine without it.
Mass'oud Mirza Zell-e Soltan, the brother of Nasser al-Din Shah, took over all of Isfahan and its environs by poisoning and assassinating the Isfahan capitalists and seizing their property.This is quite shocking! I don't doubt you but I'm trying to verify the information, I couldn't find anything about it online. Would you be able to provide the quote from your source where it says this?
Since there was no basis for creating an intellectual society in Qajar IranSorry to beat the same drum again, but the thousands of Shia scholars in Qom constituted an intellectual society, right? Can we change this to
Since there was no basis for creating a secular intellectual society in Qajar Iran?
who according to one version, ordered twenty thousand pairs and according to another version, seventy thousand pairs of people went blind.The English here isn't clear, want to make sure I understand - Agha Mohammad Khan had 20,000 or 70,000 pairs of people blinded, a pair is two people so 40,000 or 140,000? We also need a source for this claim, I did not see anything about it in the Iranica article.
but until the newspaper was banned, there was no censorship in articles and news.When was it banned?
When Amir Kabir limited the power of the clergy, Mirza Abdul-qasem Tehrani opposed him and ordered grant refuge in Shah Abdol-Azim Shrine.I couldn't understand this, could you rephrase the sentence? Who took refuge in the shrine?
He ordered that the incalculable receipts and unreasonable benefits they received from government agencies be cut off.Who is "they"?
They opened the veins of his hands and feet, and after a while of bleeding, Ali Khan Farash pointed to Mir Ghazb. He angrily hit Amir between the two shoulders with his boots. Because Amir hit the ground with a handkerchief in his throat until he died.This was hard for me to understand. Who are Ali Khan Farash and Mir Ghazb? Who hit Amir with his boots? I couldn't understand the last sentence at all, please rephrase it.
the blessing of complete freedom."Blessing" seems non-neutral to me.
he believes that the despotic or oppressive rulers have taken it from us and condemned us to accept their affairs in this world.Non-neutral, please rephrase.
Thanks to these tireless support and efforts"Tireless" is non-neutral.
but, Roshdieh built schools for the general public.Starting a sentence with "but" is not grammatically correct.
Also, the 1906 constitution of Iran in its time was considered one of the most secular laws passed in a parliament among countries."Was considered" is a weasel word, who considered it that?
the tyranny of kings like Naser al-Din Shah"Tyranny" is a non-neutral word.
Although Iraj Mirza was proud of his ancestry, there are poems left in his critique and slander of Mohammad Ali Shah and Ahmad Shah.Does not make sense in English, please revise.
Thus, apart from unreasonable love, hate and prejudice, he had made his intellectual and free-thinking personality his profession.Non-neutral.
Mirza Malkam Khan's passionate views are to some extent a diagram of his influence on Rousseau's ideas.This makes it sound like Mirza Malkam influenced Rousseau.
Today, it has played a much stronger role than neighboring countries in accepting democracy, peaceful coexistence, non-violence, avoiding tyranny, and legalizing affairs.I'm not sure I understand this, you are saying that Iran plays a strong role in accepting democracy and non-violence?
Haydar Khan was finally killed in 1921, his killer was never identified, but it is true that he had many disagreements with Mirza Kuchik Khan.This sentence leaves the reader with the idea that Mirza Kuchick Khan killed him, if that is the intent it is better to just say it with a source and attribution - "Following Haydar Khan's death, his allies accused Mirza Kuchik Khan of assassinating him", or something like that.
Many leftist thinkers in Iran are still influenced by him because the basis of the ideology of communism in Iran is the same moderation that Haydar Khan agreed with.Where in the DW article does it say this?
Eskandari's interest in social justice and equality was rooted more than any influence of European thinkers on European Enlightenment or socialism in Islam.Could not understand this sentence, please rephrase.
They did not have a proper understanding of the backwardness of ordinary people due to their infancy."Backwardness" and "infancy" are non-neutral terms.
@ Amir Ghandi: Thank you for all your work on this article! It was a joy to read and I learned a lot from it. Unfortunately I have to place it on hold for now, it is not at GA level yet. Please see my comments above, let me know if you disagree with anything. Other than the specific comments, the biggest issue is the prose, some mistakes in the grammar. I am determined not to fail it for that reason though - since most of the sources are in Persian, only a Persian speaker like you could have written this article, we need articles like this in English Wikipedia to counter our systemic bias toward the English-speaking world. If you can take care of the issues in my comments above, I will copy edit the article over the next week. -- Cerebellum ( talk) 11:37, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:52, 30 June 2021 (UTC)