This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Interleaving page. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Interleaving received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of interleaving was copied or moved into interleaving (disk storage) with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of interleaving was copied or moved into forward error correction with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Latency link to engineering latency rather than generic? Comment? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.246.11.142 ( talk • contribs) 23:15, 22 May 2007
Hello, the german wikipedia page has a good interleaving article. If somebody could translate it into here, that would be cool. If I find time for that, I might just do it! -- Bjoern.thalheim 10:43, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
{{TranslatePassage|German}} The article contains the following hidden text, with a request that it be translated. (If this has already been done, please remove the hidden comment from the article.):
Die Technik des Interleaving wurde früher bei Festplatten angewendet, da sich die Platten mit einer bestimmten Mindestgeschwindigkeit drehen mussten, damit sich das notwendige Luftpolster zwischen Platte und Kopf bildete. Allerdings waren die Computer noch nicht schnell genug, um die Daten in der hohen Geschwindigkeit zum/vom Hauptspeicher zu übertragen. Bis ein Datenblock komplett übertragen war, waren schon mehr oder weniger viele weitere Blöcke unter dem Schreib-Lesekopf hinweggerauscht. Hätte man die Blöcke einfach in aufsteigender Reihenfolge von 1 bis n auf die Platten geschrieben, so müsste man nun nach dem Zugriff eines Blocks immer fast eine komplette Umdrehung warten, bis der nachfolgende Block wieder unter dem SL-Kopf erscheint. Da dies den Datendurchsatz extrem verlangsamen würde, hat man die Sektoren in einer anderen Reihenfolge beschrieben. Dies wird dem so genannten Interleave-Faktor angegeben. Dieser gibt an, wie viele Umdrehungen der Plattenstapel ausführen muss, um eine einzelne Datenspur einzulesen. Bei 8 Blöcken und einem Interleave-Faktor von 3 würden die Blöcke z.B. in der Reihenfolge 1 4 7 2 5 8 3 6 gespeichert, es liegen zwischen zwei logisch aufeinanderfolgenden Sektoren also stets zwei andere Blöcke. Dies gibt dem Festplattencontroller genug Zeit, die Daten eines Blockes zum Hauptspeicher zu übertragen bzw. die neuen Daten zu holen. Es benötigt drei Umdrehungen des Plattenstapels, bis die gesamte Datenspur eingelesen bzw. beschrieben ist.
Heute wird bei Festplatten ausschließlich der Interleave-Faktor 1 verwendet, d.h. es findet kein Interleaving mehr statt. Die Festplattencontroller besitzen genug Pufferspeicher, um eine ganze Datenspur mit einmal zu lesen oder zu schreiben. Außerdem wird so genanntes "Double Buffering" verwendet, das heißt, während der Inhalt eines Pufferspeichers gerade zum Hauptspeicher übertragen wird, kann der andere Puffer mit Daten von der Festplatte gefüllt werden.
This page does a good job explaining what an interleaver does, but it does not explain how one works. We should at least give references on how they work and where to find info. The following paper is the one to link:
C. Berrou, A. Glavieux,"Near Optimum Error Correcting Coding and Decoding : Turbo-codes", IEEE Transactions on Communication, Vol. 44, No. 10, October 1996
If you're an IEEE member you can read it here:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel1/26/11672/00539767.pdf?arnumber=539767 Speedplane 05:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
This section has unnecessary level of detail (an actual numerical delay value) and applies to DSL without mentioning it. It should be re-written to be more generic.
First, I tried to clean up the language a little bit.
Second, the last example had a mistake in that the interleaved sentence wasn't the original sentence. I changed it. Then I also changed the error that occured so the erred reception would be clearer.
Third, there are two kinds of interleaving: block and convolutional and I think this article needs to reflect that fact. The examples here are for block interleaving, which I only mention in passing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Serrano24 ( talk • contribs) 16:24, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the editor who put this there. In particular, the "Interleaving in data transmission" section reads too much like a how to. "Now, let's do such-and-such" might be appropriate language for a school textbook, but is not right for an encyclopedia, which should stick to the third person. -- 86.132.138.84 ( talk) 17:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
i came here from glassine as this is supposed to be what it is used for..... i find that hard to believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.8.57 ( talk) 12:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
This article obviously talks about something very old. I came here expecting something about dual channel ram. 86.139.3.249 ( talk) 19:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
In telecommunications, both Randomizers and Interleavers are used. Interleaving is used in digital data transmission technology to protect the transmission against burst errors. These errors overwrite a lot of bits in a row, so a typical error correction scheme that expects errors to be more uniformly distributed can be overwhelmed. Interleaving is used to help stop this from happening.
However, Interleavers are not Randomizers.
The above should be on the page to keep it current and from being misleading... Eyreland ( talk)
Another flavor of interleaving worth describing is interleaving in memory, which has been around since at least the 1960s and still exists today. This involves multiple sections of memory that operate in parallel, with the controller (the CPU, for example) able to initiate memory accesses faster than the time to complete an access. An early example is the CDC 6600, with 100 ns CPU cycle time, 1000 ns memory cycle time, and 32 way interleaving. Paul Koning ( talk) 18:33, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Interleaving main memory, interleaving disk blocks, and interleaving bits on a communications channel seem to be rather different topics. I'd say they should have separate pages. Guy Harris ( talk) 11:46, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
So now the remaining article is almost merely a list of bullet points. Should it be changed to a disambiguation page or how could the article evolve from here? Isheden ( talk) 08:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Interleaving page. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Interleaving received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of interleaving was copied or moved into interleaving (disk storage) with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of interleaving was copied or moved into forward error correction with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Latency link to engineering latency rather than generic? Comment? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.246.11.142 ( talk • contribs) 23:15, 22 May 2007
Hello, the german wikipedia page has a good interleaving article. If somebody could translate it into here, that would be cool. If I find time for that, I might just do it! -- Bjoern.thalheim 10:43, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
{{TranslatePassage|German}} The article contains the following hidden text, with a request that it be translated. (If this has already been done, please remove the hidden comment from the article.):
Die Technik des Interleaving wurde früher bei Festplatten angewendet, da sich die Platten mit einer bestimmten Mindestgeschwindigkeit drehen mussten, damit sich das notwendige Luftpolster zwischen Platte und Kopf bildete. Allerdings waren die Computer noch nicht schnell genug, um die Daten in der hohen Geschwindigkeit zum/vom Hauptspeicher zu übertragen. Bis ein Datenblock komplett übertragen war, waren schon mehr oder weniger viele weitere Blöcke unter dem Schreib-Lesekopf hinweggerauscht. Hätte man die Blöcke einfach in aufsteigender Reihenfolge von 1 bis n auf die Platten geschrieben, so müsste man nun nach dem Zugriff eines Blocks immer fast eine komplette Umdrehung warten, bis der nachfolgende Block wieder unter dem SL-Kopf erscheint. Da dies den Datendurchsatz extrem verlangsamen würde, hat man die Sektoren in einer anderen Reihenfolge beschrieben. Dies wird dem so genannten Interleave-Faktor angegeben. Dieser gibt an, wie viele Umdrehungen der Plattenstapel ausführen muss, um eine einzelne Datenspur einzulesen. Bei 8 Blöcken und einem Interleave-Faktor von 3 würden die Blöcke z.B. in der Reihenfolge 1 4 7 2 5 8 3 6 gespeichert, es liegen zwischen zwei logisch aufeinanderfolgenden Sektoren also stets zwei andere Blöcke. Dies gibt dem Festplattencontroller genug Zeit, die Daten eines Blockes zum Hauptspeicher zu übertragen bzw. die neuen Daten zu holen. Es benötigt drei Umdrehungen des Plattenstapels, bis die gesamte Datenspur eingelesen bzw. beschrieben ist.
Heute wird bei Festplatten ausschließlich der Interleave-Faktor 1 verwendet, d.h. es findet kein Interleaving mehr statt. Die Festplattencontroller besitzen genug Pufferspeicher, um eine ganze Datenspur mit einmal zu lesen oder zu schreiben. Außerdem wird so genanntes "Double Buffering" verwendet, das heißt, während der Inhalt eines Pufferspeichers gerade zum Hauptspeicher übertragen wird, kann der andere Puffer mit Daten von der Festplatte gefüllt werden.
This page does a good job explaining what an interleaver does, but it does not explain how one works. We should at least give references on how they work and where to find info. The following paper is the one to link:
C. Berrou, A. Glavieux,"Near Optimum Error Correcting Coding and Decoding : Turbo-codes", IEEE Transactions on Communication, Vol. 44, No. 10, October 1996
If you're an IEEE member you can read it here:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel1/26/11672/00539767.pdf?arnumber=539767 Speedplane 05:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
This section has unnecessary level of detail (an actual numerical delay value) and applies to DSL without mentioning it. It should be re-written to be more generic.
First, I tried to clean up the language a little bit.
Second, the last example had a mistake in that the interleaved sentence wasn't the original sentence. I changed it. Then I also changed the error that occured so the erred reception would be clearer.
Third, there are two kinds of interleaving: block and convolutional and I think this article needs to reflect that fact. The examples here are for block interleaving, which I only mention in passing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Serrano24 ( talk • contribs) 16:24, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the editor who put this there. In particular, the "Interleaving in data transmission" section reads too much like a how to. "Now, let's do such-and-such" might be appropriate language for a school textbook, but is not right for an encyclopedia, which should stick to the third person. -- 86.132.138.84 ( talk) 17:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
i came here from glassine as this is supposed to be what it is used for..... i find that hard to believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.8.57 ( talk) 12:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
This article obviously talks about something very old. I came here expecting something about dual channel ram. 86.139.3.249 ( talk) 19:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
In telecommunications, both Randomizers and Interleavers are used. Interleaving is used in digital data transmission technology to protect the transmission against burst errors. These errors overwrite a lot of bits in a row, so a typical error correction scheme that expects errors to be more uniformly distributed can be overwhelmed. Interleaving is used to help stop this from happening.
However, Interleavers are not Randomizers.
The above should be on the page to keep it current and from being misleading... Eyreland ( talk)
Another flavor of interleaving worth describing is interleaving in memory, which has been around since at least the 1960s and still exists today. This involves multiple sections of memory that operate in parallel, with the controller (the CPU, for example) able to initiate memory accesses faster than the time to complete an access. An early example is the CDC 6600, with 100 ns CPU cycle time, 1000 ns memory cycle time, and 32 way interleaving. Paul Koning ( talk) 18:33, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Interleaving main memory, interleaving disk blocks, and interleaving bits on a communications channel seem to be rather different topics. I'd say they should have separate pages. Guy Harris ( talk) 11:46, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
So now the remaining article is almost merely a list of bullet points. Should it be changed to a disambiguation page or how could the article evolve from here? Isheden ( talk) 08:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)