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As it is so poor, I suggest this article is pruned back to being a stub then rewritten.
212.84.99.221
13:40, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
If you've had a chance to read it, does it do anything to dispel the impression given by this article that in fact there's no distinctive Indonesian philosophy, just philosophy done by Indonesians (just as there's a lot of philosophy done by Dutch philosophers, but no Dutch philosophy)? I know that Banno has a gut feeling on this, but I have a gut feeling that goes the other way, supported by the negative evidence that in twenty-five years of studying and teaching philosophy, I've never seen any mention of Indonesian philosophy. I'd not put it up for deletion on the basis of the gut feeling, but the evidence, and the contents of the article itself, are pushing me in that direction. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 08:01, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Yours, Banno 21:21, September 3, 2005 (UTC)
The article seems to be using a shifting and very broad notion of philosophy. Sometimes it's the academic discipline (as discussed in Philosophy), sometimes it includes a general world-view or set of cultural beliefs and practices, sometimes it includes theology... and the division into schools is similarly confusing. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 14:16, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
I have finished this article by citing references. Please comment and check. If you think it is satisfying, please set it free from 'verifying' note. Thanks. FHidayat 04:30, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps someone can verify the information on Francis Xavier. First, he was not a Portuguese but a Spaniard. Well actually he was a Basque :-) But did he translate (portions of) the Bible into Malay? I doubt that. It must have been someone else. Meursault2004 11:12, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
If any school of thought can even be considered unique to Indonesia it should be Indonesia's Pancasila. I would argue that Pancasila is more than mere ideology because it encompasses a way of life which is very religious yet heterogenically tolerant, cooperative yet not socialist, responsibly accountable but not totallitarian, centralized but not hierarchical. Or at least these are my beliefs of what Pancasila is.
Conceived by a conference of Indonesia's founding fathers (but not by Sukarno alone, though he was the one to originally propose a version for consideration by the BPUPKI), it was an almagam of various philosophies gathered from various Indonesian cultures further refined by debate and discussion. Though much criticism has been flaunted upon it especially since the fall of Soeharto's regime, I personally feel that Pancasila's failure is more because within Soeharto's reinterpretation of Pancasila rather than within Pancasila itself. I also feel that a lot of the unravelling tendencies of Indonesian society is due to our forgetting of past staples of thinking such as gotong royong (familial cooperation), tenggang rasa (tolerance to the point of even helping the celebration of other religions' holidays), tepa selira (patience accompanied by a driven need to improve conditions civilly), etc. all of which is condensed within Pancasila's five tenets.
I'd write more on Pancasila but to do it justice I must dig up my old text books, and do a thorough deconstruction of them to clean them from New Order pollution; a task I fear I am not very qualified to do. -- Lemi4 12:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
There's a problem with Indonesian terms being used without explanation (at least, no explanation when they first appear). In particular:
Incidentally, I think this article is great. I'm not a philosophy student, but I do think there are distinctive themes in Indonesian philosophy. -- Singkong2005 08:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
As other editors have mentioned, this article does not deal with philosophy as such, but more with ethnic, religious, and political issues in Indonesia. Therefore, it should be renamed to a more appropriate title, or perhaps merged with Indonesia. -- noosphere 09:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Some cleanup is strill needed by someone with good knowledge of the material would help - whether the eds of 2 - 3 years ago are still around - who knows - probably moved on Satu Suro 13:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
-- I agree with u. Let me clean it up soon and re-read it, re-edit it. Thx FHidayat ( talk) 09:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
~
As it is so poor, I suggest this article is pruned back to being a stub then rewritten.
212.84.99.221
13:40, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
If you've had a chance to read it, does it do anything to dispel the impression given by this article that in fact there's no distinctive Indonesian philosophy, just philosophy done by Indonesians (just as there's a lot of philosophy done by Dutch philosophers, but no Dutch philosophy)? I know that Banno has a gut feeling on this, but I have a gut feeling that goes the other way, supported by the negative evidence that in twenty-five years of studying and teaching philosophy, I've never seen any mention of Indonesian philosophy. I'd not put it up for deletion on the basis of the gut feeling, but the evidence, and the contents of the article itself, are pushing me in that direction. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 08:01, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Yours, Banno 21:21, September 3, 2005 (UTC)
The article seems to be using a shifting and very broad notion of philosophy. Sometimes it's the academic discipline (as discussed in Philosophy), sometimes it includes a general world-view or set of cultural beliefs and practices, sometimes it includes theology... and the division into schools is similarly confusing. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 14:16, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
I have finished this article by citing references. Please comment and check. If you think it is satisfying, please set it free from 'verifying' note. Thanks. FHidayat 04:30, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps someone can verify the information on Francis Xavier. First, he was not a Portuguese but a Spaniard. Well actually he was a Basque :-) But did he translate (portions of) the Bible into Malay? I doubt that. It must have been someone else. Meursault2004 11:12, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
If any school of thought can even be considered unique to Indonesia it should be Indonesia's Pancasila. I would argue that Pancasila is more than mere ideology because it encompasses a way of life which is very religious yet heterogenically tolerant, cooperative yet not socialist, responsibly accountable but not totallitarian, centralized but not hierarchical. Or at least these are my beliefs of what Pancasila is.
Conceived by a conference of Indonesia's founding fathers (but not by Sukarno alone, though he was the one to originally propose a version for consideration by the BPUPKI), it was an almagam of various philosophies gathered from various Indonesian cultures further refined by debate and discussion. Though much criticism has been flaunted upon it especially since the fall of Soeharto's regime, I personally feel that Pancasila's failure is more because within Soeharto's reinterpretation of Pancasila rather than within Pancasila itself. I also feel that a lot of the unravelling tendencies of Indonesian society is due to our forgetting of past staples of thinking such as gotong royong (familial cooperation), tenggang rasa (tolerance to the point of even helping the celebration of other religions' holidays), tepa selira (patience accompanied by a driven need to improve conditions civilly), etc. all of which is condensed within Pancasila's five tenets.
I'd write more on Pancasila but to do it justice I must dig up my old text books, and do a thorough deconstruction of them to clean them from New Order pollution; a task I fear I am not very qualified to do. -- Lemi4 12:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
There's a problem with Indonesian terms being used without explanation (at least, no explanation when they first appear). In particular:
Incidentally, I think this article is great. I'm not a philosophy student, but I do think there are distinctive themes in Indonesian philosophy. -- Singkong2005 08:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
As other editors have mentioned, this article does not deal with philosophy as such, but more with ethnic, religious, and political issues in Indonesia. Therefore, it should be renamed to a more appropriate title, or perhaps merged with Indonesia. -- noosphere 09:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Some cleanup is strill needed by someone with good knowledge of the material would help - whether the eds of 2 - 3 years ago are still around - who knows - probably moved on Satu Suro 13:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
-- I agree with u. Let me clean it up soon and re-read it, re-edit it. Thx FHidayat ( talk) 09:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)