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Indonesia鈥揗alaysia confrontation article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Should i include the separate section for the UFO sighting that occured from September 18 to September 24, 1964 in Surabaya, East Java? Alvaro Ivan Daniswara 2017 ( talk) 13:01, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
The article uses the following source to back up a statement in the infobox and elsewhere that British armed forces had 140 killed:
Note that the Gurkhas were part of the British armed forces, and therefore the claimed figure of 44 Gurkhas killed must be included in the figure for British killed.
Page 10 of UK Armed Forces Operational deaths post World War II lists many conflicts, but the following are relevant to this discussion:
The following table is based on page 8 of UK Armed Forces Operational deaths post World War II, the totals are the same as given on page 4. The Wikipedia article defines the Confrontation as starting on 20 January 1963 (p10 of the source says 24 Dec 1962), and treats the Brunei revolt of 8鈥17 December 1962 as a different conflict. The Wikipedia article includes the expansion of the conflict to the Malaysian Peninsula as part of the Confrontation. The fifth (yellow) column is the total for Borneo plus the Malay Peninsula, which is the definition of the Confrontation used by the Wikipedia article.
Year | Brunei | Borneo | Malay Peninsula | Borneo + Malay Peninsula |
---|---|---|---|---|
1962 | 7 | 2 | 2 | |
1963 | 29 | 29 | ||
1964 | 43 | 11 | 54 | |
1965 | 47 | 19 | 66 | |
1966 | 19 | 9 | 28 | |
Total | 7 | 140 | 39 | 179 |
I think the correct figure to be quoting from the source is 179 (including Gurkhas).-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:24, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
"From December 1962 until August 1966, the British lost 19 killed and 44 wounded and the Gurkhas, who with the Royal Marines had necessarily taken from brunt of the fighting, lost 43 killed and 83 wounded. The Australians lost 22 killed with 7 killed in action and the New Zealanders had 7 killed and 7 wounded in action. Of the three known to have been captured by the Indonesians 鈥 none returned alive." van der Bijl, Nick (2007). Confrontation, The War with Indonesia 1962鈥1966. Barnsley: Pen & Sword Military Press. p.聽241. ISBN聽 978-1-84415-595-8.
"During that time, total Commonwealth losses had amounted to 114 killed and 180 wounded, a figure that included 43 Gurkhas killed and 87 wounded, 16 Royal Marines killed and 20 wounded, and the infantry battalions 16 killed and 51 wounded." Jackson, Robert (2011) [1991]. The Malayan Emergency and Indonesian Confrontation: The Commonwealth's Wars 1948鈥1966. Barnsley, South Yorkshire: Pen & Sword. p.聽139. ISBN聽 9781848845558.
Moulton, J.L.; Barclay, C.N.; Yool, W.M., eds. (1967). Brassey's Annual, the Armed Forces Year-Book, 1967. London: William Clowes & Sons Ltd. p.聽349. [Pages 333-409 contains "Extracts from: Statement on the Defence Estimates 1967 (Cmd. 2902)"]
"The following casualties occurred:
Killed | Captured | Wounded | Total | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Commonwealth | Military | 114 | 鈥 | 182 | 296 |
Civilian | 36 | 4 | 53 | 93 | |
Total | 150 | 4 | 235 | 389 | |
Indonesian | 602 | 886 | 222 | 1,710 |
The cells shaded yellow are not in the source, but calculated from the other cells in the table. -- Toddy1 (talk) 12:46, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Carver, Michael (1986). "Conventional Warfare in the Nuclear Age". In Paret, Peter (ed.). The Makers of Modern Strategy: From Machiavelli to the Nuclear Age. Princeton: Princeton University Press. p.聽806.
ISBN聽
9780691027647. Casualties were 114 killed and 181 wounded, a high proportion Gurkha. There were also 36 civilians killed, 53 wounded, and 4 captured, almost all local inhabitants. It was estimated that 590 Indonesians were killed, 222 wounded, and 771 captured.
--
Toddy1
(talk) 20:50, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
"Indonesian Confrontation, 1963鈥66 | Australian War Memorial". www.awm.gov.au. "Twenty-three Australians were killed during Confrontation, seven of them on operations, and eight were wounded." -- Toddy1 (talk) 15:30, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
"NZ and Confrontation in Borneo 鈥 Confrontation in Borneo | NZHistory, New Zealand history online". nzhistory.govt.nz. "Although there were no fatalities as a result of enemy action, 12 New Zealanders died or were accidentally killed in Southeast Asia the period of Confrontation between 1964 and 1966. The New Zealand roll of honour records the deaths of 20 New Zealanders on operational service in the Malayan and Malaysian campaigns between 1948 and 1966." -- Toddy1 (talk) 15:30, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
to avoid vandalism Trollers739 ( talk) 16:21, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Indonesia鈥揗alaysia confrontation article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 365聽days聽 |
This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, program, labour (but Labor Party)) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This 聽
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Should i include the separate section for the UFO sighting that occured from September 18 to September 24, 1964 in Surabaya, East Java? Alvaro Ivan Daniswara 2017 ( talk) 13:01, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
The article uses the following source to back up a statement in the infobox and elsewhere that British armed forces had 140 killed:
Note that the Gurkhas were part of the British armed forces, and therefore the claimed figure of 44 Gurkhas killed must be included in the figure for British killed.
Page 10 of UK Armed Forces Operational deaths post World War II lists many conflicts, but the following are relevant to this discussion:
The following table is based on page 8 of UK Armed Forces Operational deaths post World War II, the totals are the same as given on page 4. The Wikipedia article defines the Confrontation as starting on 20 January 1963 (p10 of the source says 24 Dec 1962), and treats the Brunei revolt of 8鈥17 December 1962 as a different conflict. The Wikipedia article includes the expansion of the conflict to the Malaysian Peninsula as part of the Confrontation. The fifth (yellow) column is the total for Borneo plus the Malay Peninsula, which is the definition of the Confrontation used by the Wikipedia article.
Year | Brunei | Borneo | Malay Peninsula | Borneo + Malay Peninsula |
---|---|---|---|---|
1962 | 7 | 2 | 2 | |
1963 | 29 | 29 | ||
1964 | 43 | 11 | 54 | |
1965 | 47 | 19 | 66 | |
1966 | 19 | 9 | 28 | |
Total | 7 | 140 | 39 | 179 |
I think the correct figure to be quoting from the source is 179 (including Gurkhas).-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:24, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
"From December 1962 until August 1966, the British lost 19 killed and 44 wounded and the Gurkhas, who with the Royal Marines had necessarily taken from brunt of the fighting, lost 43 killed and 83 wounded. The Australians lost 22 killed with 7 killed in action and the New Zealanders had 7 killed and 7 wounded in action. Of the three known to have been captured by the Indonesians 鈥 none returned alive." van der Bijl, Nick (2007). Confrontation, The War with Indonesia 1962鈥1966. Barnsley: Pen & Sword Military Press. p.聽241. ISBN聽 978-1-84415-595-8.
"During that time, total Commonwealth losses had amounted to 114 killed and 180 wounded, a figure that included 43 Gurkhas killed and 87 wounded, 16 Royal Marines killed and 20 wounded, and the infantry battalions 16 killed and 51 wounded." Jackson, Robert (2011) [1991]. The Malayan Emergency and Indonesian Confrontation: The Commonwealth's Wars 1948鈥1966. Barnsley, South Yorkshire: Pen & Sword. p.聽139. ISBN聽 9781848845558.
Moulton, J.L.; Barclay, C.N.; Yool, W.M., eds. (1967). Brassey's Annual, the Armed Forces Year-Book, 1967. London: William Clowes & Sons Ltd. p.聽349. [Pages 333-409 contains "Extracts from: Statement on the Defence Estimates 1967 (Cmd. 2902)"]
"The following casualties occurred:
Killed | Captured | Wounded | Total | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Commonwealth | Military | 114 | 鈥 | 182 | 296 |
Civilian | 36 | 4 | 53 | 93 | |
Total | 150 | 4 | 235 | 389 | |
Indonesian | 602 | 886 | 222 | 1,710 |
The cells shaded yellow are not in the source, but calculated from the other cells in the table. -- Toddy1 (talk) 12:46, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Carver, Michael (1986). "Conventional Warfare in the Nuclear Age". In Paret, Peter (ed.). The Makers of Modern Strategy: From Machiavelli to the Nuclear Age. Princeton: Princeton University Press. p.聽806.
ISBN聽
9780691027647. Casualties were 114 killed and 181 wounded, a high proportion Gurkha. There were also 36 civilians killed, 53 wounded, and 4 captured, almost all local inhabitants. It was estimated that 590 Indonesians were killed, 222 wounded, and 771 captured.
--
Toddy1
(talk) 20:50, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
"Indonesian Confrontation, 1963鈥66 | Australian War Memorial". www.awm.gov.au. "Twenty-three Australians were killed during Confrontation, seven of them on operations, and eight were wounded." -- Toddy1 (talk) 15:30, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
"NZ and Confrontation in Borneo 鈥 Confrontation in Borneo | NZHistory, New Zealand history online". nzhistory.govt.nz. "Although there were no fatalities as a result of enemy action, 12 New Zealanders died or were accidentally killed in Southeast Asia the period of Confrontation between 1964 and 1966. The New Zealand roll of honour records the deaths of 20 New Zealanders on operational service in the Malayan and Malaysian campaigns between 1948 and 1966." -- Toddy1 (talk) 15:30, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
to avoid vandalism Trollers739 ( talk) 16:21, 18 March 2024 (UTC)