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I just edited to remove "Madonna Version" section. A Madonna cover should not be so prominently featured in this article.-- 24.99.133.168 ( talk) 19:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone justify giving Madonna her own section for her cover of "Imagine"? This section should be deleted (or every other artist that covered the song needs to have their own section).
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.10.89.5 ( talk) 17:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
This is the lesson Mr. Lennon's song taught me:
"Spirituality begins where religion ends."
Meditate on that one before replying.
--- I think we should delete the comments about how this song relates to communist that book Lennon in America has been debunked and Lennon's claims against property and religion, as well as his repeated use of "the people," have led some to posit the song as being advocative of communism and/or anarchism is just a theory and most people don't believe this. April 14, 2006
Where is the song length taken from? I'm not familiar with any six minute versions of imagine and the All Music Guide entry doesn't mention any over three minutes long. -- StoneColdCrazy 08:01, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
"Utopian but atheistic?" Please. This isn't even in the same country as NPOV. --LDC
There are no countries in Lennon's utopia. What are you talking about? :-)
--- Sorry, LDC but 80-something percent of human beings believe in some divine thingy. NPOV actually leans towards the "but" in this case.
Neutral point of view does not mean majority point of view. It means not expressing what are clearly biased opinions as if they were facts, even if they happen to be biased opinions shared by the majority. The present text pokes a bit of fun at Lennon's beliefs, but it is clear that those are expressed as opinions. Besides which, "utopian but atheistic" makes it sound like Lennon himself had some conflict, which is not just unbiased, but wrong. Lennon clearly thought the two were natural together. --LDC
I remember an episode of WKRP in Cincinnati where a Jerry Falwell-type guy tries to get them to stop playing songs like Imagine...obviously that doesn't need to be mentioned here, but as I understand, that episode was based on a real situation. Was Imagine involved in that as well? Adam Bishop 22:47, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In Lenin's Lennon's utopia, there are no countries, no possessions, no religions, and basically nothing worth fighting for. Sounds like the elimination of the human race. However, Lennon apparently envisioned people in his world of no class, status, or money. I think it's a communist world Lennon imagines, but the article says socialism. -
Calmypal 02:50, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
Could this song be considered as propaganda? Rentastrawberry 17:35, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I definitely agree. I'm 13, but I can understand communism. A communistic society would be a benefit to man's existence. Our world is great superficially, but look just below the surface, and you'll see immorality, conflict, and prejudice. People are just afraid to make sacrifices for the world's collective quality. Communism has not existed on a large scale, because things like the SU were not classless. There was a ruling class. And with one of those, it's not actually communism. Since there is no good example of such a utopia, it is not strange that we cannot understand.
I'm a little bit older than you (17) and I don't believe communism can actually work, I'm not looking at the Soviet Union or North Korea but the philosophy itself, it's too idealistic, I subscribe to Benito Mussolini's belief that conflict is a fundamental part of being human, Be it my country's various wars with France or everyday conflict such as an argument with a neighbour, There is never going to be a time when everyone is equal and there is no conflict, Human beings aren't even created equal, Some are more gifted intellectually others are better at sport and so on. Selfishness made the modern world, Not the everyday sort of selfishness such as stealing something but simply living for yourself, I wish to thank the man who first exploited someone or something else for his own gain because it led to all sorts of things we could not imagine our lives without. I believe the reason Communism doesn't work is not because man isn't good enough for it to work but because there's something fundamentally wrong with the theory- Ted Fox 18:04, 1 July 2008 (GMT)
I am a lot older than both of you and, as we are talking about John Lennon's article, I will beg you to honour his inspiration, which was purely idealistic. Keeping this in mind, "imagine" communism (or any other equalitarian society) as a north where John was trying to point us to walk towards. Perhaps Utopia (or communism) cannot work but they seem to me a far more desirable perspective than Musolini's fascism, inhuman by nature. That's a Maquiavelic thought more than any other thing and I believe it has no place on this debate about improving John Lennon's Wiki-Place. (Jose) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.107.191.217 ( talk) 20:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
This sentence: "Instead of trying to stop the conflict peacefully, the government is trying to stop the spread of the idea." seems most out of place.
1: It's in present tense while its paragraph references events in the past.
2: It's political commentary.
Barring any disagreement, I'd like to remove it. Lawyer2b 22:03, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
The fact that Lennon sang "...and no religion too..." don't mean that the music has elements of atheism, because he can believe in god and be against religions.
Discussing the politics of Imagine's lyrics is like discussing the construction of christ's cross. Factually correct, but completely beside the point.
The song's power comes from a combination of naivete and a genuinely sincere belief in the goodness of mankind.
When you get old an cynical, which isn't hard to do. You lose faith in the decency of the human species. Torture, exploitation, misery, death, greed ... every day, day after day it's paraded in front of our faces and after a while you lose hope.
When it gets really bad, and you start to wonder if it would be better if we were all wiped off the map, I can listen to John telling me to imagine a world of people, living life in peace. You can really FEEL that's he can see it in his soul, with every fibre of his being. And for a little while it rubs off on me and I see it too.
THAT is the gift that this song has given mankind.
You can talk about ism's and all but this song is about FAITH. Not in some eternal reward after you die but in ourselves, as a species.
As such, I find the statements underlying the song as a rejection of spirituality to be unusually offensive.
Agnostic perhaps, but not atheistic.
ps: Many of the concerns highligted about this song are tragically american preocupations that AREN'T shared elewhere in the world. This is a shame, since this song belongs to all of us.
Can someone cite a mainstream source claiming that "Imagine" is promoting anarchist communism or has such overtones, or a citation for Lennon claiming that it does? I googled "john lennon" imagine communism and all I found was people debating the topic. It doesn't make sense regardless. Anarchist communism has possessions, contradicting "no possessions". Waiting 24 hours then reverting in absence of citation. MrVoluntarist 05:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Sparkzilla 13:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Can someone look in the addition by this anon? He has been introducing errors on purpose, and this may very well be one of them. However, I am loathe to undo it myself. -- EMS | Talk 22:03, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Even if yoko ono made the song,was it based on buddhist things? And why does she blame the pacific world war 2 on religion when japan started it for non religion purposes.
I heard a cover of this on the radio in which someone took soundclips from Bush and arranged them in such a way as to make the lyrics of the song. I don't know who did it or when, but if anyone knows about it, they should mention it. It was really funny. The Ungovernable Force 06:10, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I've heard the song on CKOI-FM's website (ckoi.ca) last year and was it remixed by DJ Tom Compagnoni-- 74.56.237.202 23:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to include the song's lyrics in the article?
Regarding this part: "The utopian world gives way to self-doubt and insecurities lingering inside the former Beatle." In my opinion, this phrase lacks objectivity. Since when is wishing a better world "insecure"? 217.126.90.204 01:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Even the person who alleged that the phrase "Imagine all the people" played out as "The people war beside me" when played backwards admitted that it probably was not John Lennon's intent. Aside from that, this information does not seem very encyclopedic to me. Andrea Parton 19:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Should the lyrics be shown here? Lord of Light 13:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
The vast popularity of this song in the U.S. makes me conclude that nobody actually listens to the lyrics.
The vast majority of Americans say they believe in heaven. Do they really think that things would be better if there was no heaven?
The vast majority of Americans think that the country is wonderful, and many want to keep foreigners out. Do they really think that things would be better if there was no country?
Most Americans seem to think that dying for one's country, or one's beliefs, is a good and noble thing. Do they really think that things would be better if there was nothing to die for?
The vast majority of Americans claim believe in religion, and many think it is more important than anything else in their life. Do they really think that things would be better if there was no religion?
And most Americans believe that a society's success can be measured by the standard of living of its citizens and by how much they possess, and they jealously guard what they individually own. Do they really thing things would be better if there were no possessions?
A pretty tune, a famous singer, and words that nobody listens to.
Please be aware that this is not a forum. Discuss only things to improve the article. Thanks. -- John of Lancaster ( talk) 18:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Lennon's claims against property and religion, as well as his repeated use of "the people," have led some to posit the song as being advocative of humanism, communism, and anarchism.
I'm going to delete these comments because who believes this and there is no source? John Lennon never said anything about anarchism, humanism, or communism. John Lennon in his own words said this song was only about Imagining no religion and country. So I'm going to delete that statement because it's not true. Septermber 20th 2006
Again this song dosen't deal with Karl Marx or anything in that nature and anyone who say's that is lying. John Lennon in his own words said this song was only about Imagining no religion and no Countries.
The song obviously doesn't deal with the Killing fields since Pol Pot wasn't in power then, but the ideas behind Imagine did directly lead to Cambodia's massacre's, Soviet Russia, Mao's China and many other Communist dictatorships. Personally I'm not Imagine's biggest fan (It has a nice tune I'll grant you that) because of the amount of slaughter and destruction caused by those ideals. Anyway, I don't think anyone of sound mind would want to live in a world like Imagine (not that it's possible in the first place) because I like owning my house, I like living in the greatest country in the world, I like freedom of religion (Although I'm pretty right wing in my politics I don't care which god, goddess or whole carnival of gods anyone believes in) I like having things to kill and die for (Family, Nation etc.) because if there was nothing to die for then there'd be nothing to live for either- Ted Fox 00:02, 7 July 2008 (GMT)
This article is sadly lacking in references for many statements and claims. I have begun the process by making properly coded references out of the few existing links, and a References section where they end up. I have also added just three (of what should be dozens) {{cn}} tags (which create this: citation needed). When the sources are provided and the references made, they can replace the tags. Many other statements need such references. -- Fyslee 08:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I think the "no refrences tag is unfair. This article has 12 refrences. It should be removed 129.252.127.98 07:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
In the preface of his book The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins states that in the USA it is not uncommon for the line "no religion too" to be omitted or altered to "one religion too". Repugnant either way, IMNSHO. Anyhow, does anyone have citations of recordings or performances with such omissions/alterations? -- Brouhaha 09:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I presume Dawkins was not talking about performances by Lennon, but rather performances by other individuals or bands, who thought that they would "improve" the song. -- Brouhaha ( talk) 06:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
If there is no heaven or hell, then what is the difference between being John Lennon and Mark David Chapman? Murder victim and murderer. Chapman will probably die of natural causes in prison just like James Earl Ray did. For the sake of murder victims and the rest of the us, I hope and pray there is a heaven and hell, with G-D choosing who goes to heaven and hell. Take away the hope of heaven and the threat of hell and a lot of people might choose to live a criminal life, because it could be more fun, at least in this world. 204.80.61.10 18:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)Bennett Turk
I have deleted the following from the section "Criticism": "This criticism, however, ignores the fact that Lennon used much of his fortune to help underprivileged. [3]"
I imagine this deletion will upset somebody, so I thought I would explain my reasons here. I think this could be challenged on the basis of NPOV, but for now I will simply point out that it is in clear violation of NOR.
According to Wikipedia:No original research, an edit is inappropriate if "[i]t introduces an argument, without citing a reputable source for that argument, that purports to refute or support another idea, theory, argument, or position".
Although a link is provided, it does not appear to have anything whatsoever to do with the argument presented (other than the fact that it is partly about John Lennon).
Drake Dun 13:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Lennon was British, and this was released on Apple Records, a British label. As such, I think if we're only having one chronology in the infobox it should be the British. (In the UK, this single was released in 1975 and was followed by 1980's " (Just Like) Starting Over".
I'll see if I can get a dual chrono set up in the infobox; if I fail I'm inclined to revert to a British chronology. -- kingboyk 18:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
A user named Duplicity has deleted an external link I added to this article [4] pointing to a blog post I wrote about the Khaled/Noa wonderful cover of Imagine in Arabic & Hebrew. Besides linking to an mp3 of the song in this post, I feature a YouTube video of a live performance of by the performers & a translation of the powerful lyrics.
There is no legitimate reason to delete this link. I do not have any conflict of interest in linking to my blog as I gain nothing from doing so. The sole pupose of the link is to allowed interested Wikipedians to delve deeper into this particular cover version of the song in light of the tragic history of the Israeli-Arab conflict.
Please do not revert this link w/o first consuling with me. Richard ( talk) 08:25, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
The song is referenced in his chapter on religion in the book I Am America (And So Can You!).
Jt_200075 20:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Read about it here. It was used without permission in the Expelled film and kind of equates the song with Nazism, Berlin wall, etc. The line "imagine no religion' is equated with a totalistic state, not what Lennon had in mind methings. Should that be included in the article? I could add it if it seems appropriate Angry Christian ( talk) 21:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I dont believe it should be in this article, It should probably be in the Expelled article and Yoko ono. But not this one. User:Chasesboys —Preceding undated comment was added at 20:38, 10 January 2009 (UTC).
I want to have a consensus on the criticism section of this article and weather or not it should be in here. I would like to remove it because it is all POV from the people who are critising the song. Elvis Costello's comment is not a criticism and should be put into his songs article. The playboy interview has nothing to do with "Imagine" either, and has no direct reference to the song. The opening line is unsourced and is POV. ( Chasesboys ( talk) 21:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC))
No one added Connie Talbot to the list of who sings this! Besides the original i think she is the best. NOTE I THINK. I will get a message saying this ones better and so forth. -- Bkopicz3 ( talk) 04:42, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
The live covers section detracts from this article and should be removed. — John Cardinal ( talk) 21:19, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I was listening to some of my favorite songs in reverse and at about second 3.01(in reversed) I heard, "There's no one there's nothing." Is it real? Supportstorm ( talk) 04:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone remember how at New Times Square in New York on New Year's Eve, how Imagine is played right before New Year's? Should that be added to the article? 70.128.126.154 ( talk) 00:23, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
The "trivia" tag was added to this section by PJtP. I believe that this tag is not justified. Quoting WP:TRIVIA, "...a selectively populated list with a relatively narrow theme is not necessarily trivia, and can be the best way to present some types of information".
The list of notable covers is an important part of the article. The list of prominent musicians who have covered the song is a key part of the songs legacy. Reviewing the history of edits, i see a number of contributers to this section who's contributions have been removed.
On a couple of occasions John has removed chunks of the list of notable covers, indicating that they (or their notability) are unsourced. Note that WP:NOCITE refers primarily to doubtful information and then indicates that a "fact" tag should be added for a reasonable time period before removing info. Bcharles ( talk) 18:11, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Why was Imagine released in the US in 1971 and in Britain not until four years later, in 1975? After all, I suppose Lennon had (and still has) many fans in the U.K., so why would they have to wait for Imagine until 1975? (Sorry for mistakes, English is not my native language.) -- 87.78.91.131 ( talk) 22:27, 11 December 2010 (UTC) Jasper
I think it should be removed. Love is a softer song than Imagine, yet it is simply classified as rock. I think Imagine should be, too. -- John of Lancaster ( talk) 18:20, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Suggestions for improvement as requested by Gabe. The lead needs to be longer. So far it covers only a few of the main points of the article; coverage is needed on the theme and lyrics of the song and legacy in particular. Add something so that all the main sections of the article have a summary in the lead. Make sure all the images have alt-text. Check out the web citations and make sure they all have access dates; also fill in all available data such as author names, publication dates, etc. You need to have a publisher for newspapers. For example, The Guardian is the work and the publisher is Guardian News and Media. The Washington Post is the work and Katharine Weymouth is the publisher. Should they be cite news instead of cite web? Run Checklinks to make sure there are no dead links and Dab Solver to look for dabs. There's three citations that are not in citation templates; those need to be added for consistency's sake. The "cover versions" section needs copy editing, especially the paragraph about the Olympic Games. Accolades table has no sources.
That's all I can think of for now. I will check back again tomorrow and read it in more detail. You could look at FAC reviews for other songs to get further ideas for expansion. Then please take the article to Peer Review, where people familiar with the FA process will have further suggestions. -- Dianna ( talk) 02:46, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
You're doing a great job with this article Gabe. In regards to the video, this article used to describe the video for this song. Now, it talks about that 81 minute "movie by the same name" to promote the album, and Ono's album "Fly." I think we should go back to just the 3:20 min video specifically for this song. Just a suggestion. Hotcop2 ( talk) 11:10, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Seems a bit of a dubious claim. Gimme Shelter (1970 film), Dont Look Back, Woodstock (film) all predate the full-length Imagine documentary. -- Jayron 32 05:52, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Best-selling (adj): selling in great numbers. "The selling in great numbers single of his career..." is not what is meant. "best selling" without the hyphen is usually regarded as a synonym for the hyphenated version, otherwise you might get away with it. "commercially successful" would be best but this is used later in the paragraph with regard to the album. "Highest selling" is a compromise; the best option would be to reword that sentence. Yomangani talk 00:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
In 2003, Liel performed the song with former President Bill Clinton and a chorus of 40 Israeli and 40 Arab children. This was cut, but is pretty notable for the symbolism, and should be included, he said. Hotcop2 ( talk) 03:06, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Hello,
this article does not describe of what utopia John Lennon is believing in. He believes in an atheistic, nihilistic world. Yet the article says he dislikes denominations and wants a united religion. This is utter nonsense. The article does not have a criticism section despites its controversial lyrics. Whoever promoted this and supported its promotion is not quite right up top. It easily fails the 1 b, comprehensiveness. Nowhere is it comprehensive. Regards.-- Tomcat ( 7) 11:49, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
I came to this article hoping to find a serious discussion on the lyrics and critical reaction to them. Instead I found a fan page. Jayron32 makes a fundamental mistake above in thinking the author's interpretation of the words is particularly significant. I'm no literary student but I'm sure some of our more literary editors would be able to give a name for that mistake. What the author said in an interview isn't even necessarily an accurate description of what he meant by the words when he wrote them, if he even had a strong grasp of what he was writing in the first place: plenty pop songs are essentially nonsense with more importance on the rhythm and rhyme than word meaning. The words are what they are, and what the world interprets them to mean is vastly more important than what someone long dead claims they meant to him.
Lots of folk hate this song with a passion. A recent example, widely reported is British folk singer Frank Turner. He says "it’s so utterly vacuous. It’s a Hallmark card set to music. There’s a pretty high dose of hypocrisy in here as well" ... "it’s a kind of fall-back “favorite song” for people who don’t have any interest in music. It’s a default setting for the tasteless. I’d respect people much more if they just said, “You know what? I don’t really care about music,” rather than pick this song as a favorite. It’s so beige.". If you search hard, you'll find this isn't an uncommon view among folk who think about music. Many religious people find it offensive but this isn't noted in the article. Many also considered its choice for the closing ceremony of the Olympics to be trite and incongruous: a games where the separation of the world into countries is celebrated and where many of the contestants and viewers will be deeply religious. The authors of this piece need to work harder to find and include views on the work that don't already align with their own. There should be some academic consideration of the song and its impact too. -- Colin° Talk 13:41, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Lots of folks love this song with a passion. Lots of folk hate this song with a passion. Lots of folks like "My Dingaling" and others find it offensive. Who cares? It's an article about the song. Hotcop2 ( talk) 16:24, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
However, Lennon's lyrics describe hypothetical possibilities, offering no practical solutions, lyrics that at times seem contradictory, asking the listener to abandon systems while encouraging a system similar to Communism.[4] Critics have indicated the hypocrisy in his encouragement of listeners to imagine living their lives without possessions: Lennon, the millionaire rock star living in a mansion. Blaney described Lennon as "more than a little confused", and the song's lyrical position as isolationist, in contradiction with the "global oneness" they would seem to endorse. Blaney described the song as "riddled with contradictions. Its hymn-like setting sits uncomfortably alongside its author's plea for us to envision a world without religion."[4] Authors Ben Urish and Ken Bielen wrote: "the listener is, in a sense, deceived into absorbing the song's message."
Authors Ben Urish and Ken Bielen criticised the song's instrumental music as overly sentimental and melodramatic, comparing it to the music of the prerock era and describing the vocal melody as understated.[6] Blaney described the song's melody as "apparently incomplete ... a simple motif that cries out to be developed and extended."[4]
As far as "a trip to a library", I'm curious, which books should I research that are not already listed in the sources? ~ GabeMc ( talk| contribs) 23:08, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I cut out a lot of the litcrit before coming here and seeing this interesting conversation... Rothorpe ( talk) 00:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
By my count there are at least 178 words in the "Imagine" article devoted directly to criticism. 178/2671 total readable words = 6.6% of the article is devoted directly to criticism of the song, or about 1 out of every 15.15 readable words. ~ GabeMc ( talk| contribs) 02:43, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
@Tomcat, per your comment: "Allmusic states the following (perhaps originally from John Blaney): "with no gods, possessions, or classes, where everyone is equal." And looking at Gbooks, I was right." Right about what? Blaney is not available on Gbooks and Allmusic does not provide any sourcing information. ~ GabeMc ( talk| contribs) 03:19, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Jayron32, you're an admin so should know better than making personal attacks on other editors. If you'd tried that "lifted a finger" line at FAC you'd have got a bloody nose and rightly so. I understand you guys are defensive. You should be basking in FAC glory and someone comes along, late to the party, saying the article isn't up to scratch. I spent last night studying textbooks on myoclonic epilepsy for WP but it wouldn't have been your concern if I had spent it watching TV. All that matters is this article text and what anyone who has an interest in it wants to do about it. We're volunteers so what you want to do about it is up to you. Do folk here want to write one of the best articles on Wikipedia? Or are you happy with a fan page that scraped through FAC on fan support? I'm not interested in GabeMc's WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS search results. This song isn't remotely comparable to them. I note the delegate wrote "but is the music (which personally I consider blancmange, though that's neither here nor there of course!) universally regarded with favour"
I see there has been improvement to the critical analysis of the song's words since my first post. That's great. It is good to have scholarly analysis of the words. How about some scholarly analysis on the popular impact the song has had? A quick Google turned up this which is typical of a thoughtful journalist response to Imagine. I'm sure there will be deeper analysis if you search.
I note that the song is widely regarded as a "secular hymn", but this is not mentioned in the article. In fact, if you search "imagine lennon secular hymn" it turns up some interesting material. Speaking of hymns, check out the amazing grace article for some scholarly analysis. Now clearly that song is in a different league to Imagine, but there are similarities wrt their popularity and anthem status: one for Christians and one for atheists. Perhaps Hotcop2 thinks this is just a silly pop song like Hey Jude. It really isn't. And the article should reflect that. Colin° Talk 09:22, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
GabeMc, I suggest you retract your allegations of hypocracy and innuendo wrt former delegates. That's just as unfair and rude as Tomcat's suggestion that Graham is "not quite right up top". The delegates are limited to a degree by the reviewers they get. As Graham said, it isn't always possible for them to intervene, and articles can change considerably from when there are promoted (and during FAC too). The original Hey Jude FAC was in far simpler times, predating Sandy's FAC time too. Sandy's threat of FAR should not be regarded as imminent (that wouldn't happen anyway as recently promoted FACs don't go there). She is simply making sure you take the criticism of lack of comprehensiveness and neutrality seriously, rather than defensively thinking because it just passed FAC it must be great already.
You really must stop comparing this article or FAC with others. That path leads to jealousy and feelings of unfairness. We're just discussing words on a page, not your personal achievement or the good or bad character of various FAC/FAR delegates. I'm pretty ignorant about Like a Rolling Stone so you read too much into my "perhaps" it is a better song. If it is widely criticised, and this is missing from the article, then it would be great if someone could address that. Moaning about it on this talk page achieves nothing. You were getting over concerned about the percentages of negative wording in the article. My point is that one can't say that both Imagine and LaRS need 15% negativity or whatever. It might be the reliable scholarly and popular sources give quite different weights to positive and negative aspects of these songs and that is something only you and other editors with sources can work out by looking at the literature. See WP:WEIGHT -- which makes it also clear that your or my opinion on the +ve/-ve things don't count too (they can be at best an indication that perhaps the article is unbalanced). But I do feel that sourced opinions are an integral part of an encyclopaedic article on a song or any literature or music. Facts are interesting too but nobody got married, voted or went to war over facts. Folk need to take those facts and form opinions, and as a species we value the opinions of others very highly. Colin° Talk 10:45, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Ditto ... as Colin says, please stop engaging OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and make this article the best it can be. I don't think that "Like a Rolling Stone attracted the same kind of critical review that Imagine did, but if you're aware of some, please bring it forward on that page. What you may be missing is that Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Like a Rolling Stone/archive1 displays real engagement by knowledgeable FAC reviewers, while Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Imagine (song)/archive1 shows a lack of critical review that led one delegate to question the review so far, which was followed by support from two involved editors who did not declare their involvement. (Folks, please read the FAC instructions and if you have a prior involvement with the article, declare it.) Delegates can only do so much if reviews are less than complete, and at some point they have to promote if reviewers don't speak up: my point here was that Colin did speak up, and if you want this article to be the best it can be on mainpage day-- and if you want to be sure the wider exposure of mainpage won't result in a debacle where someone questions FAC or demands a trip to FAR-- you would be well advised to heed Colin's concerns and make sure you have sought out scholarly sources. Name calling won't advance your cause or help you have an easier time on mainpage day if the article turns out not to be up to snuff and the wider exposure of mainpage day brings deficiencies to light. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 12:28, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Comment: As the bloke who said "is the music (which personally I consider blancmange, though that's neither here nor there of course!) universally regarded with favour?", I've just been asked by Gabe to comment on the article's latest version WRT criticism of the song. I should add that Gabe had pinged me on my talk page shortly after this discussion began but I didn't feel I had the time to properly contribute. I'm sorry to see that passions have become inflamed over this, but for now at least will restrict myself to the question at hand... The article certainly appears to offer a more rounded discussion of the song than it did when I posed my question a while ago. I brought that up not because I was aware of any specific criticism of the song (the only thing I'd heard was a quote from Lou Reed deriding "all that 'possessions' crap", but for all I knew he could have been completely out of it when he said it) but because I figured there must be more scholarly criticism of the song than was apparent in the article at the time. Oddly enough, the only passage that jars with me is the Shapiro quote. I say "oddly" because I personally agree with it almost entirely (except for concerns about atheism) but it reads like a cheap shot. If it were me I'd probably include a few words or a sentence, but no more -- by all means get other opinion on this, however. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 10:31, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I think you might've opened another can o' worms by removing "notable" from the covers heading. As this is one of the most covered songs, this kind of invites anyone to add their own personal favorite cover to the list. Did "notable" stick in someone's craw? And I don't think we need every criticism ever voiced of the song, scholarly or not, because it's still just personal opinion. We don't want this to become the biggest section of the article (or do we?) Hotcop2 ( talk) 00:58, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Why is there a quote from Ben Shapiro in an article on a song by John Lennon? He is neither a music critic, nor an authority on John Lennon; he is insulting a song because he disagrees with its vision. If anything, that should be included in a 'reactions to the song' section, but criticism? Hardly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.190.224 ( talk) 05:47, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
I also don't think it's representative of critical reception of 'Imagine' for the last line of the section to be 'Despicable as art; despicable as politics'. This might be better classed as 'hysterical and highly ideological reactions to Imagine' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.190.224 ( talk) 06:51, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
"Collectivist positivism"? Really? In the second sentence of the article? When I read articles about John Lennon or his songs, I often find myself wondering what John's reaction would be. I tend to think his reaction to the second sentence of this article would be similar to his reaction to the review of one of his early songs that said the tune contained "Aeolian cadences." He didn't know what those were, nor do I suspect he would have a better reaction to "collectivist positivism." It might be better to say that the lyrics of the song envision a world where everyone is interconnected and living and working together. Or we could just leave that out, since the next sentence basically says the same thing, using normal everyday words (just more of them, but that's okay.) I kind of wish I had seen this before this was on the Main Page. If nobody else cares, I'll just let it go, but I had to say something. Neutron ( talk) 01:41, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Yep, someone's confusing positivism with optimism. I'm changing it. Coolazice ( talk) 03:59, 8 December 2012 (UTC) On second thoughts I prefer 'idealistic collectivism', since the lyrics are a tad too uncertain to be optimistic 'I hope someday'... idealistic is a better fit, but I agree with collectivism. Also this avoids confusing 'idealistic' with 'idealism' (philosophy). Coolazice ( talk) 04:04, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
This does not seem plausible at all. It would seem that the particular company has simply added themselves to the page for some sort of promotion; The citation is just brings you to the Google search of "Imagine the World as One". It does the same with Ask and Alta Vista. To be frank, there is no way of telling Google's most popular searches, so this is definitely sabotage or self promotion. I have not deleted this incase I'm wrong, but I'm rather confident that I am correct. 02:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Basically the section on "Inspiration and lyrics" is really very biased against the song, with such statements as "However, Lennon's lyrics describe only hypothetical possibilities, offering no practical solutions, lyrics that are at times nebulous and contradictory, asking the listener to abandon systems while encouraging a system similar to communism.". Now this statement is presented as an objective fact, when it is only the opinion of John Blaney (author of Lennon and McCartney: Together Alone (2007)), Wikipedia cannot present this POV opinion as an unqualified fact. This kind of stuff would be fine if it were in the criticisms section and where identified as someone's opinion, but should not be in the lyrics section as a fact. Again, Blaney's opinions (which are invariably aggressively against the song) are scattered throughout the article as if they are NPOV statements, they are not and should be confined to the criticism section. -- Hibernian ( talk) 17:57, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
It's been a few days and the statement was still there, so I've just gone ahead and moved it to the criticism section and changed the sentence a bit to make it clear that this is one person's opinion. -- Hibernian ( talk) 04:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Hello. Can anybody tell me why the article is in the scope of the Madonna WikiProject??? 1.52.4.194 ( talk) 10:01, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Someone needs to fix this- because it's impossible. Lennon composed "Imagine" one morning in early 1971, on a Steinway piano, in a bedroom at his Tittenhurst Park estate in Ascot, Berkshire, England. Ono watched as he composed the melody, chord structure and almost all the lyrics, nearly completing the song in one brief writing session.[6]
For one thing, John is heard on the Let It Be sessions playing the chord structure of "Imagine" and that was in '69, he might have put it all together in '71 but he had already hit upon the chord structure. Not only that, John himself said in an interview he wrote most of the lyrics while he was on an airplane- so this brief description is misleading. I don't care what Yoko might say, it's on tape in '69 of him playing the chords- it's on the "Fly on the Wall" extra CD to "Let it Be Naked." bmtjr — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.16.33.13 ( talk) 05:00, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
It is much more precise to talk about "soft rock" for this song rather than simply "rock" (and closer to the truth than simply "rock" which can means everything and anything). I added two references which show "Imagine" is a soft rock song. And I don't understand why it has been changed "Rock, pop" instead without any reference this time. Synthwave.94 ( talk) 22:23, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Of course, I forget to say I come with references (as I did on Imagine), I explain in the edit summary I change the genre (which is often added without any reference or discussion, it's very important I talk about it) and it works perfectly. I just realized it's "harsher" on featured articles so I think I'd try to be more careful. I'm sorry but I really thought the references I added were reliable. It's sometimes hard for me to see if a reference is reliable enough or not.
Anyway, Imagine is a ballad, isn't it ? And soft rock is a genre that can be used to show a song is ballad, right ? I already added soft rock to another article, precising it, and it was accepted. Synthwave.94 ( talk) 23:37, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
What's wrong about my very last edit ? Synthwave.94 ( talk) 22:45, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
This talk page was wrongly archived to mis-numbered Talk:Imagine (song)/Archive 4; that has been moved to Talk:Imagine (song)/Archive 1. JohnCD ( talk) 09:32, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
The article says it was completely composed in 1971 but this is incorrect. On the Let It Be...Naked album you can clearly hear John Lennon dabbling with the melody during the extras bit where you hear the Beatles chatting. So Lennon had already started with the song a couple of years earlier while still in the Beatles. Peter Jensen ( talk) 19:22, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I've just checked with the reviewed and listed version of this FA, from late 2012. The Charts section has been expanded considerably since then, which I imagine (ho, ho) it needed to. But what's crept in also, in the box detailing chart peaks for the 1971 release, is a number of second and third listings for each country – Canada and the US are obvious examples. Is this okay, having all these alternative charts ( Cash Box, Record World, CHUM, etc.), or excessive and the listing equivalent of quote farm? If we think it's okay, then there are at least two other UK charts to add from this era, Melody Maker and NME, and I'm sure it wouldn't stop there – because these song (and album) chart boxes will just grow and grow, in my opinion.
In the case of the US charts, I'd always understood it that Billboard stands as the national chart, even in retrospect (i.e., despite Cash Box's standing until way into the 1970s); so for the US, the Billboard Hot 100 should appear in the Charts section, but the alternative chart peaks can be mentioned in the main text, if necessary. In the case of the two Belgian charts we have, it seems that one replaced the other, according to List of number-one hits (Belgium), anyway. With the CHUM chart, that appears to be for the Toronto area only, so it's obviously not a measure of national sales and/or radio play. So my thinking is we should cut some of these out – CHUM, Belgian Ultratop, Cash Box, Record World – because the coverage seems excessive right now. If not, then should we be looking to expand all other Charts sections for major international hits? – because they end up looking like under-achievers next to this. Any thoughts? JG66 ( talk) 09:18, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 11:17, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Imagine (song) →
Imagine (John Lennon song) – 1971 song no doubt more notable than the rest of
Imagine (disambiguation) combined, nevertheless
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (music) requires that once we get into brackets/parentheses and multiple articles we give a precise title.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 12:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Didn't Lady Gaga perform this live as well? --dnsla23 17:42, 7 October 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dnsla ( talk • contribs)
The piano part sounds simple at the beginning of the song, but when John starts singing, I can hear another piano (possibly an electric or electronic piano) in addition to the main piano part. In the video, Lennon is playing a white piano, but in the studio he used an upright piano. Also, I watched on YouTube a video on the making of this song and while Lennon was playing the studio's piano, I saw off to his side, what looked like an RMI Electra Piano. There used to be an article for that instrument and Imagine was listed in there. It said that the instrument was "mixed in with the acoustic piano" and I can make out what sounds like an electric or electronic piano as the former article described. I see that this is a featured article, but it sounds like Lennon mixed the RMI Electra Piano in with the acoustic piano. While I understand the following statement is technically original research (which doesn't hold up in comparison to the wording of a featured article), I'm thinking that Lennon played both an acoustic piano and an electronic piano and mixed them together.-- Kevjgav ( talk) 09:27, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Can someone tell me what is wrong with adding to the page the assertion that imagine was written in part at least at the NY HILTON.? Not only does Hilton assert it but there is proof that Lennon at least used NY HILTON stationery to write some of the lyrics
@ Mlpearc: Hi, you're right about the lack of publisher parameter in this type of template, but do you not think it might be an idea to have such a parameter in Infobox Single? We have "Published" in Infobox Song. Also, when a song's notable for the number and range of cover recordings and performances, as "Imagine" is, one could say the identity of the music publisher is every bit as important as naming the composer, no? JG66 ( talk) 06:35, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
@ IndianBio: I don't understand what's wrong with using the chart site's official forum when the posts are clearly marked as being from the staff. nyuszika7h ( talk) 16:00, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
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The co-writing credit of Lennon-Ono will make it's debut on the Imagine Super=duper Deluxe box set due in October. Like it or not, she is now considered the co-author. The page should reflect as much. The bit about "Lennon composed the song on his Steinway with Yoko looking on" is speculative and not important in the song's history, either way. I had made the edits, but they were reverted. It is sourced and again, like it or not, it is fact and sourced. Hotcop2 ( talk) 13:26, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
I just edited to remove "Madonna Version" section. A Madonna cover should not be so prominently featured in this article.-- 24.99.133.168 ( talk) 19:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone justify giving Madonna her own section for her cover of "Imagine"? This section should be deleted (or every other artist that covered the song needs to have their own section).
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.10.89.5 ( talk) 17:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
This is the lesson Mr. Lennon's song taught me:
"Spirituality begins where religion ends."
Meditate on that one before replying.
--- I think we should delete the comments about how this song relates to communist that book Lennon in America has been debunked and Lennon's claims against property and religion, as well as his repeated use of "the people," have led some to posit the song as being advocative of communism and/or anarchism is just a theory and most people don't believe this. April 14, 2006
Where is the song length taken from? I'm not familiar with any six minute versions of imagine and the All Music Guide entry doesn't mention any over three minutes long. -- StoneColdCrazy 08:01, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
"Utopian but atheistic?" Please. This isn't even in the same country as NPOV. --LDC
There are no countries in Lennon's utopia. What are you talking about? :-)
--- Sorry, LDC but 80-something percent of human beings believe in some divine thingy. NPOV actually leans towards the "but" in this case.
Neutral point of view does not mean majority point of view. It means not expressing what are clearly biased opinions as if they were facts, even if they happen to be biased opinions shared by the majority. The present text pokes a bit of fun at Lennon's beliefs, but it is clear that those are expressed as opinions. Besides which, "utopian but atheistic" makes it sound like Lennon himself had some conflict, which is not just unbiased, but wrong. Lennon clearly thought the two were natural together. --LDC
I remember an episode of WKRP in Cincinnati where a Jerry Falwell-type guy tries to get them to stop playing songs like Imagine...obviously that doesn't need to be mentioned here, but as I understand, that episode was based on a real situation. Was Imagine involved in that as well? Adam Bishop 22:47, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In Lenin's Lennon's utopia, there are no countries, no possessions, no religions, and basically nothing worth fighting for. Sounds like the elimination of the human race. However, Lennon apparently envisioned people in his world of no class, status, or money. I think it's a communist world Lennon imagines, but the article says socialism. -
Calmypal 02:50, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
Could this song be considered as propaganda? Rentastrawberry 17:35, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I definitely agree. I'm 13, but I can understand communism. A communistic society would be a benefit to man's existence. Our world is great superficially, but look just below the surface, and you'll see immorality, conflict, and prejudice. People are just afraid to make sacrifices for the world's collective quality. Communism has not existed on a large scale, because things like the SU were not classless. There was a ruling class. And with one of those, it's not actually communism. Since there is no good example of such a utopia, it is not strange that we cannot understand.
I'm a little bit older than you (17) and I don't believe communism can actually work, I'm not looking at the Soviet Union or North Korea but the philosophy itself, it's too idealistic, I subscribe to Benito Mussolini's belief that conflict is a fundamental part of being human, Be it my country's various wars with France or everyday conflict such as an argument with a neighbour, There is never going to be a time when everyone is equal and there is no conflict, Human beings aren't even created equal, Some are more gifted intellectually others are better at sport and so on. Selfishness made the modern world, Not the everyday sort of selfishness such as stealing something but simply living for yourself, I wish to thank the man who first exploited someone or something else for his own gain because it led to all sorts of things we could not imagine our lives without. I believe the reason Communism doesn't work is not because man isn't good enough for it to work but because there's something fundamentally wrong with the theory- Ted Fox 18:04, 1 July 2008 (GMT)
I am a lot older than both of you and, as we are talking about John Lennon's article, I will beg you to honour his inspiration, which was purely idealistic. Keeping this in mind, "imagine" communism (or any other equalitarian society) as a north where John was trying to point us to walk towards. Perhaps Utopia (or communism) cannot work but they seem to me a far more desirable perspective than Musolini's fascism, inhuman by nature. That's a Maquiavelic thought more than any other thing and I believe it has no place on this debate about improving John Lennon's Wiki-Place. (Jose) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.107.191.217 ( talk) 20:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
This sentence: "Instead of trying to stop the conflict peacefully, the government is trying to stop the spread of the idea." seems most out of place.
1: It's in present tense while its paragraph references events in the past.
2: It's political commentary.
Barring any disagreement, I'd like to remove it. Lawyer2b 22:03, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
The fact that Lennon sang "...and no religion too..." don't mean that the music has elements of atheism, because he can believe in god and be against religions.
Discussing the politics of Imagine's lyrics is like discussing the construction of christ's cross. Factually correct, but completely beside the point.
The song's power comes from a combination of naivete and a genuinely sincere belief in the goodness of mankind.
When you get old an cynical, which isn't hard to do. You lose faith in the decency of the human species. Torture, exploitation, misery, death, greed ... every day, day after day it's paraded in front of our faces and after a while you lose hope.
When it gets really bad, and you start to wonder if it would be better if we were all wiped off the map, I can listen to John telling me to imagine a world of people, living life in peace. You can really FEEL that's he can see it in his soul, with every fibre of his being. And for a little while it rubs off on me and I see it too.
THAT is the gift that this song has given mankind.
You can talk about ism's and all but this song is about FAITH. Not in some eternal reward after you die but in ourselves, as a species.
As such, I find the statements underlying the song as a rejection of spirituality to be unusually offensive.
Agnostic perhaps, but not atheistic.
ps: Many of the concerns highligted about this song are tragically american preocupations that AREN'T shared elewhere in the world. This is a shame, since this song belongs to all of us.
Can someone cite a mainstream source claiming that "Imagine" is promoting anarchist communism or has such overtones, or a citation for Lennon claiming that it does? I googled "john lennon" imagine communism and all I found was people debating the topic. It doesn't make sense regardless. Anarchist communism has possessions, contradicting "no possessions". Waiting 24 hours then reverting in absence of citation. MrVoluntarist 05:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Sparkzilla 13:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Can someone look in the addition by this anon? He has been introducing errors on purpose, and this may very well be one of them. However, I am loathe to undo it myself. -- EMS | Talk 22:03, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Even if yoko ono made the song,was it based on buddhist things? And why does she blame the pacific world war 2 on religion when japan started it for non religion purposes.
I heard a cover of this on the radio in which someone took soundclips from Bush and arranged them in such a way as to make the lyrics of the song. I don't know who did it or when, but if anyone knows about it, they should mention it. It was really funny. The Ungovernable Force 06:10, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I've heard the song on CKOI-FM's website (ckoi.ca) last year and was it remixed by DJ Tom Compagnoni-- 74.56.237.202 23:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to include the song's lyrics in the article?
Regarding this part: "The utopian world gives way to self-doubt and insecurities lingering inside the former Beatle." In my opinion, this phrase lacks objectivity. Since when is wishing a better world "insecure"? 217.126.90.204 01:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Even the person who alleged that the phrase "Imagine all the people" played out as "The people war beside me" when played backwards admitted that it probably was not John Lennon's intent. Aside from that, this information does not seem very encyclopedic to me. Andrea Parton 19:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Should the lyrics be shown here? Lord of Light 13:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
The vast popularity of this song in the U.S. makes me conclude that nobody actually listens to the lyrics.
The vast majority of Americans say they believe in heaven. Do they really think that things would be better if there was no heaven?
The vast majority of Americans think that the country is wonderful, and many want to keep foreigners out. Do they really think that things would be better if there was no country?
Most Americans seem to think that dying for one's country, or one's beliefs, is a good and noble thing. Do they really think that things would be better if there was nothing to die for?
The vast majority of Americans claim believe in religion, and many think it is more important than anything else in their life. Do they really think that things would be better if there was no religion?
And most Americans believe that a society's success can be measured by the standard of living of its citizens and by how much they possess, and they jealously guard what they individually own. Do they really thing things would be better if there were no possessions?
A pretty tune, a famous singer, and words that nobody listens to.
Please be aware that this is not a forum. Discuss only things to improve the article. Thanks. -- John of Lancaster ( talk) 18:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Lennon's claims against property and religion, as well as his repeated use of "the people," have led some to posit the song as being advocative of humanism, communism, and anarchism.
I'm going to delete these comments because who believes this and there is no source? John Lennon never said anything about anarchism, humanism, or communism. John Lennon in his own words said this song was only about Imagining no religion and country. So I'm going to delete that statement because it's not true. Septermber 20th 2006
Again this song dosen't deal with Karl Marx or anything in that nature and anyone who say's that is lying. John Lennon in his own words said this song was only about Imagining no religion and no Countries.
The song obviously doesn't deal with the Killing fields since Pol Pot wasn't in power then, but the ideas behind Imagine did directly lead to Cambodia's massacre's, Soviet Russia, Mao's China and many other Communist dictatorships. Personally I'm not Imagine's biggest fan (It has a nice tune I'll grant you that) because of the amount of slaughter and destruction caused by those ideals. Anyway, I don't think anyone of sound mind would want to live in a world like Imagine (not that it's possible in the first place) because I like owning my house, I like living in the greatest country in the world, I like freedom of religion (Although I'm pretty right wing in my politics I don't care which god, goddess or whole carnival of gods anyone believes in) I like having things to kill and die for (Family, Nation etc.) because if there was nothing to die for then there'd be nothing to live for either- Ted Fox 00:02, 7 July 2008 (GMT)
This article is sadly lacking in references for many statements and claims. I have begun the process by making properly coded references out of the few existing links, and a References section where they end up. I have also added just three (of what should be dozens) {{cn}} tags (which create this: citation needed). When the sources are provided and the references made, they can replace the tags. Many other statements need such references. -- Fyslee 08:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I think the "no refrences tag is unfair. This article has 12 refrences. It should be removed 129.252.127.98 07:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
In the preface of his book The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins states that in the USA it is not uncommon for the line "no religion too" to be omitted or altered to "one religion too". Repugnant either way, IMNSHO. Anyhow, does anyone have citations of recordings or performances with such omissions/alterations? -- Brouhaha 09:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I presume Dawkins was not talking about performances by Lennon, but rather performances by other individuals or bands, who thought that they would "improve" the song. -- Brouhaha ( talk) 06:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
If there is no heaven or hell, then what is the difference between being John Lennon and Mark David Chapman? Murder victim and murderer. Chapman will probably die of natural causes in prison just like James Earl Ray did. For the sake of murder victims and the rest of the us, I hope and pray there is a heaven and hell, with G-D choosing who goes to heaven and hell. Take away the hope of heaven and the threat of hell and a lot of people might choose to live a criminal life, because it could be more fun, at least in this world. 204.80.61.10 18:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)Bennett Turk
I have deleted the following from the section "Criticism": "This criticism, however, ignores the fact that Lennon used much of his fortune to help underprivileged. [3]"
I imagine this deletion will upset somebody, so I thought I would explain my reasons here. I think this could be challenged on the basis of NPOV, but for now I will simply point out that it is in clear violation of NOR.
According to Wikipedia:No original research, an edit is inappropriate if "[i]t introduces an argument, without citing a reputable source for that argument, that purports to refute or support another idea, theory, argument, or position".
Although a link is provided, it does not appear to have anything whatsoever to do with the argument presented (other than the fact that it is partly about John Lennon).
Drake Dun 13:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Lennon was British, and this was released on Apple Records, a British label. As such, I think if we're only having one chronology in the infobox it should be the British. (In the UK, this single was released in 1975 and was followed by 1980's " (Just Like) Starting Over".
I'll see if I can get a dual chrono set up in the infobox; if I fail I'm inclined to revert to a British chronology. -- kingboyk 18:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
A user named Duplicity has deleted an external link I added to this article [4] pointing to a blog post I wrote about the Khaled/Noa wonderful cover of Imagine in Arabic & Hebrew. Besides linking to an mp3 of the song in this post, I feature a YouTube video of a live performance of by the performers & a translation of the powerful lyrics.
There is no legitimate reason to delete this link. I do not have any conflict of interest in linking to my blog as I gain nothing from doing so. The sole pupose of the link is to allowed interested Wikipedians to delve deeper into this particular cover version of the song in light of the tragic history of the Israeli-Arab conflict.
Please do not revert this link w/o first consuling with me. Richard ( talk) 08:25, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
The song is referenced in his chapter on religion in the book I Am America (And So Can You!).
Jt_200075 20:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Read about it here. It was used without permission in the Expelled film and kind of equates the song with Nazism, Berlin wall, etc. The line "imagine no religion' is equated with a totalistic state, not what Lennon had in mind methings. Should that be included in the article? I could add it if it seems appropriate Angry Christian ( talk) 21:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I dont believe it should be in this article, It should probably be in the Expelled article and Yoko ono. But not this one. User:Chasesboys —Preceding undated comment was added at 20:38, 10 January 2009 (UTC).
I want to have a consensus on the criticism section of this article and weather or not it should be in here. I would like to remove it because it is all POV from the people who are critising the song. Elvis Costello's comment is not a criticism and should be put into his songs article. The playboy interview has nothing to do with "Imagine" either, and has no direct reference to the song. The opening line is unsourced and is POV. ( Chasesboys ( talk) 21:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC))
No one added Connie Talbot to the list of who sings this! Besides the original i think she is the best. NOTE I THINK. I will get a message saying this ones better and so forth. -- Bkopicz3 ( talk) 04:42, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
The live covers section detracts from this article and should be removed. — John Cardinal ( talk) 21:19, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I was listening to some of my favorite songs in reverse and at about second 3.01(in reversed) I heard, "There's no one there's nothing." Is it real? Supportstorm ( talk) 04:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone remember how at New Times Square in New York on New Year's Eve, how Imagine is played right before New Year's? Should that be added to the article? 70.128.126.154 ( talk) 00:23, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
The "trivia" tag was added to this section by PJtP. I believe that this tag is not justified. Quoting WP:TRIVIA, "...a selectively populated list with a relatively narrow theme is not necessarily trivia, and can be the best way to present some types of information".
The list of notable covers is an important part of the article. The list of prominent musicians who have covered the song is a key part of the songs legacy. Reviewing the history of edits, i see a number of contributers to this section who's contributions have been removed.
On a couple of occasions John has removed chunks of the list of notable covers, indicating that they (or their notability) are unsourced. Note that WP:NOCITE refers primarily to doubtful information and then indicates that a "fact" tag should be added for a reasonable time period before removing info. Bcharles ( talk) 18:11, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Why was Imagine released in the US in 1971 and in Britain not until four years later, in 1975? After all, I suppose Lennon had (and still has) many fans in the U.K., so why would they have to wait for Imagine until 1975? (Sorry for mistakes, English is not my native language.) -- 87.78.91.131 ( talk) 22:27, 11 December 2010 (UTC) Jasper
I think it should be removed. Love is a softer song than Imagine, yet it is simply classified as rock. I think Imagine should be, too. -- John of Lancaster ( talk) 18:20, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Suggestions for improvement as requested by Gabe. The lead needs to be longer. So far it covers only a few of the main points of the article; coverage is needed on the theme and lyrics of the song and legacy in particular. Add something so that all the main sections of the article have a summary in the lead. Make sure all the images have alt-text. Check out the web citations and make sure they all have access dates; also fill in all available data such as author names, publication dates, etc. You need to have a publisher for newspapers. For example, The Guardian is the work and the publisher is Guardian News and Media. The Washington Post is the work and Katharine Weymouth is the publisher. Should they be cite news instead of cite web? Run Checklinks to make sure there are no dead links and Dab Solver to look for dabs. There's three citations that are not in citation templates; those need to be added for consistency's sake. The "cover versions" section needs copy editing, especially the paragraph about the Olympic Games. Accolades table has no sources.
That's all I can think of for now. I will check back again tomorrow and read it in more detail. You could look at FAC reviews for other songs to get further ideas for expansion. Then please take the article to Peer Review, where people familiar with the FA process will have further suggestions. -- Dianna ( talk) 02:46, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
You're doing a great job with this article Gabe. In regards to the video, this article used to describe the video for this song. Now, it talks about that 81 minute "movie by the same name" to promote the album, and Ono's album "Fly." I think we should go back to just the 3:20 min video specifically for this song. Just a suggestion. Hotcop2 ( talk) 11:10, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Seems a bit of a dubious claim. Gimme Shelter (1970 film), Dont Look Back, Woodstock (film) all predate the full-length Imagine documentary. -- Jayron 32 05:52, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Best-selling (adj): selling in great numbers. "The selling in great numbers single of his career..." is not what is meant. "best selling" without the hyphen is usually regarded as a synonym for the hyphenated version, otherwise you might get away with it. "commercially successful" would be best but this is used later in the paragraph with regard to the album. "Highest selling" is a compromise; the best option would be to reword that sentence. Yomangani talk 00:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
In 2003, Liel performed the song with former President Bill Clinton and a chorus of 40 Israeli and 40 Arab children. This was cut, but is pretty notable for the symbolism, and should be included, he said. Hotcop2 ( talk) 03:06, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Hello,
this article does not describe of what utopia John Lennon is believing in. He believes in an atheistic, nihilistic world. Yet the article says he dislikes denominations and wants a united religion. This is utter nonsense. The article does not have a criticism section despites its controversial lyrics. Whoever promoted this and supported its promotion is not quite right up top. It easily fails the 1 b, comprehensiveness. Nowhere is it comprehensive. Regards.-- Tomcat ( 7) 11:49, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
I came to this article hoping to find a serious discussion on the lyrics and critical reaction to them. Instead I found a fan page. Jayron32 makes a fundamental mistake above in thinking the author's interpretation of the words is particularly significant. I'm no literary student but I'm sure some of our more literary editors would be able to give a name for that mistake. What the author said in an interview isn't even necessarily an accurate description of what he meant by the words when he wrote them, if he even had a strong grasp of what he was writing in the first place: plenty pop songs are essentially nonsense with more importance on the rhythm and rhyme than word meaning. The words are what they are, and what the world interprets them to mean is vastly more important than what someone long dead claims they meant to him.
Lots of folk hate this song with a passion. A recent example, widely reported is British folk singer Frank Turner. He says "it’s so utterly vacuous. It’s a Hallmark card set to music. There’s a pretty high dose of hypocrisy in here as well" ... "it’s a kind of fall-back “favorite song” for people who don’t have any interest in music. It’s a default setting for the tasteless. I’d respect people much more if they just said, “You know what? I don’t really care about music,” rather than pick this song as a favorite. It’s so beige.". If you search hard, you'll find this isn't an uncommon view among folk who think about music. Many religious people find it offensive but this isn't noted in the article. Many also considered its choice for the closing ceremony of the Olympics to be trite and incongruous: a games where the separation of the world into countries is celebrated and where many of the contestants and viewers will be deeply religious. The authors of this piece need to work harder to find and include views on the work that don't already align with their own. There should be some academic consideration of the song and its impact too. -- Colin° Talk 13:41, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Lots of folks love this song with a passion. Lots of folk hate this song with a passion. Lots of folks like "My Dingaling" and others find it offensive. Who cares? It's an article about the song. Hotcop2 ( talk) 16:24, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
However, Lennon's lyrics describe hypothetical possibilities, offering no practical solutions, lyrics that at times seem contradictory, asking the listener to abandon systems while encouraging a system similar to Communism.[4] Critics have indicated the hypocrisy in his encouragement of listeners to imagine living their lives without possessions: Lennon, the millionaire rock star living in a mansion. Blaney described Lennon as "more than a little confused", and the song's lyrical position as isolationist, in contradiction with the "global oneness" they would seem to endorse. Blaney described the song as "riddled with contradictions. Its hymn-like setting sits uncomfortably alongside its author's plea for us to envision a world without religion."[4] Authors Ben Urish and Ken Bielen wrote: "the listener is, in a sense, deceived into absorbing the song's message."
Authors Ben Urish and Ken Bielen criticised the song's instrumental music as overly sentimental and melodramatic, comparing it to the music of the prerock era and describing the vocal melody as understated.[6] Blaney described the song's melody as "apparently incomplete ... a simple motif that cries out to be developed and extended."[4]
As far as "a trip to a library", I'm curious, which books should I research that are not already listed in the sources? ~ GabeMc ( talk| contribs) 23:08, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I cut out a lot of the litcrit before coming here and seeing this interesting conversation... Rothorpe ( talk) 00:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
By my count there are at least 178 words in the "Imagine" article devoted directly to criticism. 178/2671 total readable words = 6.6% of the article is devoted directly to criticism of the song, or about 1 out of every 15.15 readable words. ~ GabeMc ( talk| contribs) 02:43, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
@Tomcat, per your comment: "Allmusic states the following (perhaps originally from John Blaney): "with no gods, possessions, or classes, where everyone is equal." And looking at Gbooks, I was right." Right about what? Blaney is not available on Gbooks and Allmusic does not provide any sourcing information. ~ GabeMc ( talk| contribs) 03:19, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Jayron32, you're an admin so should know better than making personal attacks on other editors. If you'd tried that "lifted a finger" line at FAC you'd have got a bloody nose and rightly so. I understand you guys are defensive. You should be basking in FAC glory and someone comes along, late to the party, saying the article isn't up to scratch. I spent last night studying textbooks on myoclonic epilepsy for WP but it wouldn't have been your concern if I had spent it watching TV. All that matters is this article text and what anyone who has an interest in it wants to do about it. We're volunteers so what you want to do about it is up to you. Do folk here want to write one of the best articles on Wikipedia? Or are you happy with a fan page that scraped through FAC on fan support? I'm not interested in GabeMc's WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS search results. This song isn't remotely comparable to them. I note the delegate wrote "but is the music (which personally I consider blancmange, though that's neither here nor there of course!) universally regarded with favour"
I see there has been improvement to the critical analysis of the song's words since my first post. That's great. It is good to have scholarly analysis of the words. How about some scholarly analysis on the popular impact the song has had? A quick Google turned up this which is typical of a thoughtful journalist response to Imagine. I'm sure there will be deeper analysis if you search.
I note that the song is widely regarded as a "secular hymn", but this is not mentioned in the article. In fact, if you search "imagine lennon secular hymn" it turns up some interesting material. Speaking of hymns, check out the amazing grace article for some scholarly analysis. Now clearly that song is in a different league to Imagine, but there are similarities wrt their popularity and anthem status: one for Christians and one for atheists. Perhaps Hotcop2 thinks this is just a silly pop song like Hey Jude. It really isn't. And the article should reflect that. Colin° Talk 09:22, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
GabeMc, I suggest you retract your allegations of hypocracy and innuendo wrt former delegates. That's just as unfair and rude as Tomcat's suggestion that Graham is "not quite right up top". The delegates are limited to a degree by the reviewers they get. As Graham said, it isn't always possible for them to intervene, and articles can change considerably from when there are promoted (and during FAC too). The original Hey Jude FAC was in far simpler times, predating Sandy's FAC time too. Sandy's threat of FAR should not be regarded as imminent (that wouldn't happen anyway as recently promoted FACs don't go there). She is simply making sure you take the criticism of lack of comprehensiveness and neutrality seriously, rather than defensively thinking because it just passed FAC it must be great already.
You really must stop comparing this article or FAC with others. That path leads to jealousy and feelings of unfairness. We're just discussing words on a page, not your personal achievement or the good or bad character of various FAC/FAR delegates. I'm pretty ignorant about Like a Rolling Stone so you read too much into my "perhaps" it is a better song. If it is widely criticised, and this is missing from the article, then it would be great if someone could address that. Moaning about it on this talk page achieves nothing. You were getting over concerned about the percentages of negative wording in the article. My point is that one can't say that both Imagine and LaRS need 15% negativity or whatever. It might be the reliable scholarly and popular sources give quite different weights to positive and negative aspects of these songs and that is something only you and other editors with sources can work out by looking at the literature. See WP:WEIGHT -- which makes it also clear that your or my opinion on the +ve/-ve things don't count too (they can be at best an indication that perhaps the article is unbalanced). But I do feel that sourced opinions are an integral part of an encyclopaedic article on a song or any literature or music. Facts are interesting too but nobody got married, voted or went to war over facts. Folk need to take those facts and form opinions, and as a species we value the opinions of others very highly. Colin° Talk 10:45, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Ditto ... as Colin says, please stop engaging OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and make this article the best it can be. I don't think that "Like a Rolling Stone attracted the same kind of critical review that Imagine did, but if you're aware of some, please bring it forward on that page. What you may be missing is that Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Like a Rolling Stone/archive1 displays real engagement by knowledgeable FAC reviewers, while Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Imagine (song)/archive1 shows a lack of critical review that led one delegate to question the review so far, which was followed by support from two involved editors who did not declare their involvement. (Folks, please read the FAC instructions and if you have a prior involvement with the article, declare it.) Delegates can only do so much if reviews are less than complete, and at some point they have to promote if reviewers don't speak up: my point here was that Colin did speak up, and if you want this article to be the best it can be on mainpage day-- and if you want to be sure the wider exposure of mainpage won't result in a debacle where someone questions FAC or demands a trip to FAR-- you would be well advised to heed Colin's concerns and make sure you have sought out scholarly sources. Name calling won't advance your cause or help you have an easier time on mainpage day if the article turns out not to be up to snuff and the wider exposure of mainpage day brings deficiencies to light. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 12:28, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Comment: As the bloke who said "is the music (which personally I consider blancmange, though that's neither here nor there of course!) universally regarded with favour?", I've just been asked by Gabe to comment on the article's latest version WRT criticism of the song. I should add that Gabe had pinged me on my talk page shortly after this discussion began but I didn't feel I had the time to properly contribute. I'm sorry to see that passions have become inflamed over this, but for now at least will restrict myself to the question at hand... The article certainly appears to offer a more rounded discussion of the song than it did when I posed my question a while ago. I brought that up not because I was aware of any specific criticism of the song (the only thing I'd heard was a quote from Lou Reed deriding "all that 'possessions' crap", but for all I knew he could have been completely out of it when he said it) but because I figured there must be more scholarly criticism of the song than was apparent in the article at the time. Oddly enough, the only passage that jars with me is the Shapiro quote. I say "oddly" because I personally agree with it almost entirely (except for concerns about atheism) but it reads like a cheap shot. If it were me I'd probably include a few words or a sentence, but no more -- by all means get other opinion on this, however. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 10:31, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I think you might've opened another can o' worms by removing "notable" from the covers heading. As this is one of the most covered songs, this kind of invites anyone to add their own personal favorite cover to the list. Did "notable" stick in someone's craw? And I don't think we need every criticism ever voiced of the song, scholarly or not, because it's still just personal opinion. We don't want this to become the biggest section of the article (or do we?) Hotcop2 ( talk) 00:58, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Why is there a quote from Ben Shapiro in an article on a song by John Lennon? He is neither a music critic, nor an authority on John Lennon; he is insulting a song because he disagrees with its vision. If anything, that should be included in a 'reactions to the song' section, but criticism? Hardly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.190.224 ( talk) 05:47, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
I also don't think it's representative of critical reception of 'Imagine' for the last line of the section to be 'Despicable as art; despicable as politics'. This might be better classed as 'hysterical and highly ideological reactions to Imagine' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.190.224 ( talk) 06:51, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
"Collectivist positivism"? Really? In the second sentence of the article? When I read articles about John Lennon or his songs, I often find myself wondering what John's reaction would be. I tend to think his reaction to the second sentence of this article would be similar to his reaction to the review of one of his early songs that said the tune contained "Aeolian cadences." He didn't know what those were, nor do I suspect he would have a better reaction to "collectivist positivism." It might be better to say that the lyrics of the song envision a world where everyone is interconnected and living and working together. Or we could just leave that out, since the next sentence basically says the same thing, using normal everyday words (just more of them, but that's okay.) I kind of wish I had seen this before this was on the Main Page. If nobody else cares, I'll just let it go, but I had to say something. Neutron ( talk) 01:41, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Yep, someone's confusing positivism with optimism. I'm changing it. Coolazice ( talk) 03:59, 8 December 2012 (UTC) On second thoughts I prefer 'idealistic collectivism', since the lyrics are a tad too uncertain to be optimistic 'I hope someday'... idealistic is a better fit, but I agree with collectivism. Also this avoids confusing 'idealistic' with 'idealism' (philosophy). Coolazice ( talk) 04:04, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
This does not seem plausible at all. It would seem that the particular company has simply added themselves to the page for some sort of promotion; The citation is just brings you to the Google search of "Imagine the World as One". It does the same with Ask and Alta Vista. To be frank, there is no way of telling Google's most popular searches, so this is definitely sabotage or self promotion. I have not deleted this incase I'm wrong, but I'm rather confident that I am correct. 02:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Basically the section on "Inspiration and lyrics" is really very biased against the song, with such statements as "However, Lennon's lyrics describe only hypothetical possibilities, offering no practical solutions, lyrics that are at times nebulous and contradictory, asking the listener to abandon systems while encouraging a system similar to communism.". Now this statement is presented as an objective fact, when it is only the opinion of John Blaney (author of Lennon and McCartney: Together Alone (2007)), Wikipedia cannot present this POV opinion as an unqualified fact. This kind of stuff would be fine if it were in the criticisms section and where identified as someone's opinion, but should not be in the lyrics section as a fact. Again, Blaney's opinions (which are invariably aggressively against the song) are scattered throughout the article as if they are NPOV statements, they are not and should be confined to the criticism section. -- Hibernian ( talk) 17:57, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
It's been a few days and the statement was still there, so I've just gone ahead and moved it to the criticism section and changed the sentence a bit to make it clear that this is one person's opinion. -- Hibernian ( talk) 04:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Hello. Can anybody tell me why the article is in the scope of the Madonna WikiProject??? 1.52.4.194 ( talk) 10:01, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Someone needs to fix this- because it's impossible. Lennon composed "Imagine" one morning in early 1971, on a Steinway piano, in a bedroom at his Tittenhurst Park estate in Ascot, Berkshire, England. Ono watched as he composed the melody, chord structure and almost all the lyrics, nearly completing the song in one brief writing session.[6]
For one thing, John is heard on the Let It Be sessions playing the chord structure of "Imagine" and that was in '69, he might have put it all together in '71 but he had already hit upon the chord structure. Not only that, John himself said in an interview he wrote most of the lyrics while he was on an airplane- so this brief description is misleading. I don't care what Yoko might say, it's on tape in '69 of him playing the chords- it's on the "Fly on the Wall" extra CD to "Let it Be Naked." bmtjr — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.16.33.13 ( talk) 05:00, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
It is much more precise to talk about "soft rock" for this song rather than simply "rock" (and closer to the truth than simply "rock" which can means everything and anything). I added two references which show "Imagine" is a soft rock song. And I don't understand why it has been changed "Rock, pop" instead without any reference this time. Synthwave.94 ( talk) 22:23, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Of course, I forget to say I come with references (as I did on Imagine), I explain in the edit summary I change the genre (which is often added without any reference or discussion, it's very important I talk about it) and it works perfectly. I just realized it's "harsher" on featured articles so I think I'd try to be more careful. I'm sorry but I really thought the references I added were reliable. It's sometimes hard for me to see if a reference is reliable enough or not.
Anyway, Imagine is a ballad, isn't it ? And soft rock is a genre that can be used to show a song is ballad, right ? I already added soft rock to another article, precising it, and it was accepted. Synthwave.94 ( talk) 23:37, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
What's wrong about my very last edit ? Synthwave.94 ( talk) 22:45, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
This talk page was wrongly archived to mis-numbered Talk:Imagine (song)/Archive 4; that has been moved to Talk:Imagine (song)/Archive 1. JohnCD ( talk) 09:32, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
The article says it was completely composed in 1971 but this is incorrect. On the Let It Be...Naked album you can clearly hear John Lennon dabbling with the melody during the extras bit where you hear the Beatles chatting. So Lennon had already started with the song a couple of years earlier while still in the Beatles. Peter Jensen ( talk) 19:22, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I've just checked with the reviewed and listed version of this FA, from late 2012. The Charts section has been expanded considerably since then, which I imagine (ho, ho) it needed to. But what's crept in also, in the box detailing chart peaks for the 1971 release, is a number of second and third listings for each country – Canada and the US are obvious examples. Is this okay, having all these alternative charts ( Cash Box, Record World, CHUM, etc.), or excessive and the listing equivalent of quote farm? If we think it's okay, then there are at least two other UK charts to add from this era, Melody Maker and NME, and I'm sure it wouldn't stop there – because these song (and album) chart boxes will just grow and grow, in my opinion.
In the case of the US charts, I'd always understood it that Billboard stands as the national chart, even in retrospect (i.e., despite Cash Box's standing until way into the 1970s); so for the US, the Billboard Hot 100 should appear in the Charts section, but the alternative chart peaks can be mentioned in the main text, if necessary. In the case of the two Belgian charts we have, it seems that one replaced the other, according to List of number-one hits (Belgium), anyway. With the CHUM chart, that appears to be for the Toronto area only, so it's obviously not a measure of national sales and/or radio play. So my thinking is we should cut some of these out – CHUM, Belgian Ultratop, Cash Box, Record World – because the coverage seems excessive right now. If not, then should we be looking to expand all other Charts sections for major international hits? – because they end up looking like under-achievers next to this. Any thoughts? JG66 ( talk) 09:18, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 11:17, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Imagine (song) →
Imagine (John Lennon song) – 1971 song no doubt more notable than the rest of
Imagine (disambiguation) combined, nevertheless
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (music) requires that once we get into brackets/parentheses and multiple articles we give a precise title.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 12:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Didn't Lady Gaga perform this live as well? --dnsla23 17:42, 7 October 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dnsla ( talk • contribs)
The piano part sounds simple at the beginning of the song, but when John starts singing, I can hear another piano (possibly an electric or electronic piano) in addition to the main piano part. In the video, Lennon is playing a white piano, but in the studio he used an upright piano. Also, I watched on YouTube a video on the making of this song and while Lennon was playing the studio's piano, I saw off to his side, what looked like an RMI Electra Piano. There used to be an article for that instrument and Imagine was listed in there. It said that the instrument was "mixed in with the acoustic piano" and I can make out what sounds like an electric or electronic piano as the former article described. I see that this is a featured article, but it sounds like Lennon mixed the RMI Electra Piano in with the acoustic piano. While I understand the following statement is technically original research (which doesn't hold up in comparison to the wording of a featured article), I'm thinking that Lennon played both an acoustic piano and an electronic piano and mixed them together.-- Kevjgav ( talk) 09:27, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Can someone tell me what is wrong with adding to the page the assertion that imagine was written in part at least at the NY HILTON.? Not only does Hilton assert it but there is proof that Lennon at least used NY HILTON stationery to write some of the lyrics
@ Mlpearc: Hi, you're right about the lack of publisher parameter in this type of template, but do you not think it might be an idea to have such a parameter in Infobox Single? We have "Published" in Infobox Song. Also, when a song's notable for the number and range of cover recordings and performances, as "Imagine" is, one could say the identity of the music publisher is every bit as important as naming the composer, no? JG66 ( talk) 06:35, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
@ IndianBio: I don't understand what's wrong with using the chart site's official forum when the posts are clearly marked as being from the staff. nyuszika7h ( talk) 16:00, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
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The co-writing credit of Lennon-Ono will make it's debut on the Imagine Super=duper Deluxe box set due in October. Like it or not, she is now considered the co-author. The page should reflect as much. The bit about "Lennon composed the song on his Steinway with Yoko looking on" is speculative and not important in the song's history, either way. I had made the edits, but they were reverted. It is sourced and again, like it or not, it is fact and sourced. Hotcop2 ( talk) 13:26, 17 May 2018 (UTC)