This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Idles article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hi all. Pinging @ Dekai Averett: @ 64.57.49.68: @ Mashaunix:, all who have discussed this issue previously.
Idles clearly describe themselves as *not* a punk band. However many third parties would indeed label their music as such. I'm quite tired of seeing edits to this page back and forth between the two perspectives.
Can we please discuss and agree what the media consensus says their 'genre' is for the infobox?
I'd like to avoid further rollback wars between editors, so for now I'll leave the band as 'Punk rock' as per the most recent settled edit, and leave a warning to all users in the code - it is best to discuss the article here rather than getting into further edit disputes.
Please vote below whether
Thanks in anticipation. RfC relisted by Cunard ( talk) at 08:51, 3 November 2019 (UTC). Llemiles ( talk) 17:48, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Yes - Infoboxes list facts about the article, not opinions such as those of the band themselves. So I would describe the band as rock, alt rock, and punk rock in the introduction and infobox. From there, we can then cite the band's point of view in the Style of Music section which allows for more nuance. Llemiles ( talk) 17:48, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Yes - A bands opinion on their own music can not be used as a reliable source. Music genres for the most part are objective and when lots of sources describe a band as a certain style (in this case punk) it should be put in the info box. Dekai Averett ( talk) 14:10, 21 September 2019 (EDT)
Yes – The band's sound is widely associated with punk (and to a lesser extent post-punk and hardcore) by critics and journalist, as a quick google search will reveal. From what I've read I would be in favor of "rock" in the lead, "punk rock, indie[/alternative] rock, post-punk" in the infobox and details in the musical style section. Such details should include descriptions of their sound (and its evolution over the 2 albums) from BOTH published commentators AND the band itself. If disruptive edits are persistent, an explanatory sentence on genre/style could also be added to the lead. In any case, a note in the infobox should explain the result of this discussion.-- MA SHAUN IX 10:44, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
Comment - why not write it in such a way that both sides are represented? I think the Musical style section does this pretty well (the refs help this enormously). The point is (imo) that the band's view of what kind of music they make is just as important as the views from external sources attempting to pigeon-hole them. You can write these differing views in such a way that its more compelling and interwoven instead of clashing or oppositional points of view. - Jack Sebastian ( talk) 15:15, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
https://www.taz.de/!5530217/ -- 109.41.2.79 ( talk) 04:51, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to make changes at this time, per the discussion below. It seems likely that the Idles redirect should be discussed at WP:RFD; were that to result in retargeting the redirect to the band and not somewhere else, it might be worth revisiting this issue. Dekimasu よ! 09:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Idles (band) →
Idles – Current page at "Idles" redirects to
Idlès, which can be distinguished by the accent mark. Additionally, the band is a much more likely search target on English Wikipedia than the Algerian city.
Conifer (
talk)
05:03, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved -- JHunterJ ( talk) 13:32, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
– I'm going to bring this up again. Idles (band) is getting 1,500 views per day currently (434,000 in the last year) and there's nothing on the disambiguation page that is remotely close (a town - with the accent - in Algeria that gets practically zero views, redirects to misspellings of Idol and Ideles, a redirect to idleness, and an American punk band, The Teen Idles, who no-one is ever going to type in "Idles" to find). This is a clear primary topic. When the page is getting 50 times the traffic of Idles, this is fairly clear. Black Kite (talk) 23:27, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Idles article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hi all. Pinging @ Dekai Averett: @ 64.57.49.68: @ Mashaunix:, all who have discussed this issue previously.
Idles clearly describe themselves as *not* a punk band. However many third parties would indeed label their music as such. I'm quite tired of seeing edits to this page back and forth between the two perspectives.
Can we please discuss and agree what the media consensus says their 'genre' is for the infobox?
I'd like to avoid further rollback wars between editors, so for now I'll leave the band as 'Punk rock' as per the most recent settled edit, and leave a warning to all users in the code - it is best to discuss the article here rather than getting into further edit disputes.
Please vote below whether
Thanks in anticipation. RfC relisted by Cunard ( talk) at 08:51, 3 November 2019 (UTC). Llemiles ( talk) 17:48, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Yes - Infoboxes list facts about the article, not opinions such as those of the band themselves. So I would describe the band as rock, alt rock, and punk rock in the introduction and infobox. From there, we can then cite the band's point of view in the Style of Music section which allows for more nuance. Llemiles ( talk) 17:48, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Yes - A bands opinion on their own music can not be used as a reliable source. Music genres for the most part are objective and when lots of sources describe a band as a certain style (in this case punk) it should be put in the info box. Dekai Averett ( talk) 14:10, 21 September 2019 (EDT)
Yes – The band's sound is widely associated with punk (and to a lesser extent post-punk and hardcore) by critics and journalist, as a quick google search will reveal. From what I've read I would be in favor of "rock" in the lead, "punk rock, indie[/alternative] rock, post-punk" in the infobox and details in the musical style section. Such details should include descriptions of their sound (and its evolution over the 2 albums) from BOTH published commentators AND the band itself. If disruptive edits are persistent, an explanatory sentence on genre/style could also be added to the lead. In any case, a note in the infobox should explain the result of this discussion.-- MA SHAUN IX 10:44, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
Comment - why not write it in such a way that both sides are represented? I think the Musical style section does this pretty well (the refs help this enormously). The point is (imo) that the band's view of what kind of music they make is just as important as the views from external sources attempting to pigeon-hole them. You can write these differing views in such a way that its more compelling and interwoven instead of clashing or oppositional points of view. - Jack Sebastian ( talk) 15:15, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
https://www.taz.de/!5530217/ -- 109.41.2.79 ( talk) 04:51, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to make changes at this time, per the discussion below. It seems likely that the Idles redirect should be discussed at WP:RFD; were that to result in retargeting the redirect to the band and not somewhere else, it might be worth revisiting this issue. Dekimasu よ! 09:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
Idles (band) →
Idles – Current page at "Idles" redirects to
Idlès, which can be distinguished by the accent mark. Additionally, the band is a much more likely search target on English Wikipedia than the Algerian city.
Conifer (
talk)
05:03, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved -- JHunterJ ( talk) 13:32, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
– I'm going to bring this up again. Idles (band) is getting 1,500 views per day currently (434,000 in the last year) and there's nothing on the disambiguation page that is remotely close (a town - with the accent - in Algeria that gets practically zero views, redirects to misspellings of Idol and Ideles, a redirect to idleness, and an American punk band, The Teen Idles, who no-one is ever going to type in "Idles" to find). This is a clear primary topic. When the page is getting 50 times the traffic of Idles, this is fairly clear. Black Kite (talk) 23:27, 29 August 2020 (UTC)