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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Do you recommend the inclusion of Kniezsa's ethnic map in the article gallery?
Previous arguments can be checked at Talk:Hungarians#Kniezsa.27s_ethnic_map 123Steller ( talk) 09:21, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
UTC)
Constantine VII in the De Administrando Imperio, writes about the Magyar tribes as Turcois ("Turks"), stating that they spoke a Turkic language. Today, in all schools from Turkey, and other Arabic countries, pupils learn that Hungarians, Bulgarians, Azers, Turkmens and Uzbeks are from Turkic family. Interestingly, a lot of words from Hungarian language are today in the Turkic language. Recco.
Hello, KIENGIR; to answer your question, no, Hungarians are not a Turkic peoples in any way, shape or form. They are not culturally, genetically or linguistically related to the Turkic peoples and language family in any way. Also, i'm interested and have to ask, where did you hear that in Turkish schools that students are taught that Hungarians are Turkic or that there are a lot of Hungarian words in Turkish? Because that is not true.
Not to mention, Pan-Turkism is a radical Turkish far-right nationalist movement attempting to group the Uralic, Finnic, and Turkic branches and peoples into one so I wouldn't take them seriously in any way. As for Turkish loanwords in Hungarian, there are very few because Hungary was not under Ottoman control for a long time (only one century and a half, compared to their Balkan southern neighbors which were for over half a millennia aka almost 500 years) and that once Hungarians reclaimed their southern land from Turkish control they tended to destroy almost all forms of Ottoman reminders such as mosques, administrations, buildings, etc. - 2600:1001:B12D:682:2A35:2AD:2F04:320B ( talk) 22:50, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
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Opluset, sorry, not I was the one who altered the lead recurrently, I just restored it. "Finno-Ugric" is not an ethnic group, but a language family, therefore it is fallacious and anyway not needed there, since "Hungarian" is the ethnic group itself. The rest of your edits were accepted.( KIENGIR ( talk) 20:04, 4 November 2017 (UTC))
Dear IP(s),
could you give an explanation why the same chamge is persisted, why the data regarding Denmark is overriden with the suspected data of Netherlands?
Thank You( KIENGIR ( talk) 19:46, 26 December 2017 (UTC))
Sorry but what on earth is a "European" and what the heck is an Asian for that matter? It may be sourced but since when did continents, especially fake continents, come to have progenitors? All the author can possibly mean is that the lands were already inhabited, whilst "Asia" just happens to have been the most recent location at the time that those Magyars were living. Needs rewriting. -- Coldtrack ( talk) 23:39, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
In all honesty it generally should be clear in a layman's context what the term "European" means here, but I changed the wording of the sentence anyway so it would be more specific. ReformedPenal ( talk) 15:03, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
please add link to "see also" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.218.1.77 ( talk) 02:37, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
Hungarians, also known as Magyars: this is a wrong assumption to start with. The adjective Hungarian in English does not differentiate between the inhabitants of Hungary and ethnic Magyars, but these are two different concepts. I will edit this entry when I have a little time on my hands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leiduowen ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
"The Pope approved Hungarian settlement in the area when their leaders converted to Christianity ..."
Aproved? APPROVED???? Nobody asked that bloke! Not even the traitor steven! REMEMBER! Steven had VETO power in the papal election! So did all Magyar kings! The pope was liking steven's aaammm ... just to make him be part of the catholic empire. Hungary was THE! major force in Europe at the time.
Let us all remember, in 907 the united German forces attacked the Hungarians. "Ugros to be eliminated" was written on their flags. At Pozsony - Bratislava today - the whole German army was annihilated. The survivors run to Ennsburg where king Louise confronted the Magyars with his fresh army. King Loiuse's army was annihilated too and the Hungarians only stopped at the Ens river.
But this is 'conveniently' ignored to be able to say that "Pope approved Hungarian settlement".
The article is full of mistakes, lying by omissions and anti-Hungarian biased. It needs to be totally rewritten by an unbiased author! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.29.185 ( talk) 01:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC) There were mostly Southern German army in battle of Pozsony (Pressburg). ""Ugros to be eliminated" was written on their flags." That modern Urban legend was debunked long time ago: https://tenyleg.com/index.php?action=recordView&type=places&category_id=3115&id=1308636 -- Liltender ( talk) 09:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
The article mess up the info about ancient Hungarian samples and the researches about modern poplulations. Non-reliable university studies must be treated with cautions, since the Hungarian universities have not enough samples from modern Hungarian population to make reliable statements about modern Hungarians. Note, that they are often politically divided, and not trustfull. However the huge global American pop. genetic researcher laboratories like 23 and me, Familtree DNA, Acestry DNA etc... had teens of thousands of modern Hungarian samples and they are more neutral (not politically motivated). -- Free Royal City ( talk) 07:53, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
We must conclude that the population genetics is strongly based on statisticcal methodes, thus the precision is relie on the number of samples. Many Hungarian Wiki editors can not understand , that small university labs are not able to genetrically determine modern populations, because of the lack of money and enough big staff to make mass sample genetic reserarches. So many of the Hungarian editors come up weith the laughable argument, that it is a "university research" thus it is serious think.... simply ridiculous argument. blah blah blah..... Both the equipment and large statistical database of the global big companies are not comparable with this tini university labs. Even the knowledge of scholars of these global companies are more up to date than this small universities. Moreover they are unbiassed and independent of the bellow mention political ideological fights of Hungary:
Danger from the Right-WING self-appointed "shaman-scholars": , or the "Are you anti-Hungarian?" synrome:
The pseudo scientific Turanist (Hun Scythian Partian Sumerian Turk tales) research center was estabilished in Hungary (Magyarságkutató intézet) by the goverment, as a counter institution for the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, because the Academy can remian more independent institution, and did not follow the political wishes. And there is the probléem of interpretation of ethnicity in modern Hungary (politically it was not such a problem before 1945). They often include different identity groups like Jassic and neo-Cuman people, automatically as ethnic Hungarians. Yes some cumans survived the Great Ottoman wars in the historic Cumania reserve area (called as Kunság in Hungarian). These people often have also dual identity. In other countries doesn't make national or ideological problem if some different origin subgroups were researched separatedly. However in Hungary it is a scandal, because these so-called historically very loyal neo-Cumans and Jassic people are "DESERVES" to be coubnted as ethnic Hungarians. Yes they are politically Hungarians and they spoke Hungarian language since the 17th century, but science can not based on emotions, like "they deserve to be ethnic Hungarians because of their loyality". Don't forget, these subgroups in Alföld region have very different typically Eastern European traditional material culture instead of Central European material Culture in Hungary, and they had strong own seprarted identity before the communism!
The danger from the Leftist - Liberals in Hungary: ( "Are you nazi?" type syndrome )
However not only the far-right ideologies represent danger for real good quality reliable pop. genetic researches, but their opponents the leftist liberal circles too.. Some people on the left and liberals considers everybody equally Hungarians, who have citizenship or born in Hungary. This is known as the so-called "Political nation" in every countrires. It based on citizenship and simple identity. According to this logic Everybody is automatically Hungarian, who consider himself a Hungarian. This leftist liberal circles deny the existence of any ethnic groups, not only the Hungarian but also all other ethnicites in Europe, and they became angry when they hear the words "ethnic - Hungarian", but they became similar angry when they hear ethnic German ethnic Pole ethnic Czech , etc.... because they can accept only "Political nation". In this regard they are indifferent to their other European leftist-liberal thining people. For example some leftist liberal researches automatically included the verly mixed highly multi-cultural Budapest in the population genetic researches without making consideration about the Austro-Hungarian era multi-ethnic past of the city. For example in the 2000s if somebody mentioned that Jews must be counted as separate ethnic group in genetic researches (not as ethnic Hungarians), it caused scandal, and the leftist liberals called this as type of nazi fascist attitude. Fortunatelly, Nowadays it slowly changed.
However the rightist interpretation with their anti-Academy institution (Magyarságkutató Intézet) did not changed at all.
I also noticed They are also affraid (or don't have money in their small labs) to make comparison of various big regions in Hungary, and compute genetic distances of the people of these regions. Some of these nationalist thinking researchers somehow affraid, that the result would "harm" the identity of various reginal populations. (Which I found really childish and ridiculous in the 21th century) For example, 2 million people live from the Alföld region, and it include 60% of the territory of Hungary. It is the most effected by the wars, and the so-called genetic overlay effect was shocking high during the history. One of the most heterogenous origin peoplation live on the Alföld, who had very weak (the veakest) link with the Hungarian speaking population of medieval Kingdom of Hungary. The other propblem that the most of the far-right leaders in Hungary were born and raised in that region since the 20th century. The majority of these people would interpret their relatively high genetic difference from the rest of other Hungarian groups as that they are less Hungarian and "less valuabe" people because of that. IT is a very sad, stupid, but very common reaction from nationalist side. However similar agressive response can emerge from the leftist-liberals, who don't care, because everybody automatically and equally Hungarian including gypsy population due to the simple IUS SOLI concept and their citizenship, and if you don't agree with it, than you are a nazi.-- Free Royal City ( talk) 11:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Borsi, for you it is rather somehow frustrating topic. One of this man from muti-culti Alföld (Szeged) is Borsoka. He always became mad when he hear about genetics. Borsoka, as a human you have not lesser value because of your geographic origin. OK? Nobody attack your identity. He rather belong to the Left - Liberal type of problem of the pop. genetics question. Nobody look down on you because you were born in the Alföld. OK? Calm down Borsoka, we are living in the 21th century. WHo is Stubes? Your girlfriend?-- Free Royal City ( talk) 11:47, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I have always thought you are an expert of frustration, but this does not change the core of my message: you cannot edit. Borsoka ( talk) 13:36, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Dear Alföldicus! Do you want to permit to edit Wikipedia? On which term?-- Free Royal City ( talk) 15:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Alföldicus, you have rich fantasy.-- Free Royal City ( talk) 17:04, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I added a link to Austria-Hungary aka Austro-Hungarian Empire and it was removed. I thought it deserved at least a link; isn't that an important part of the history of Hungarians, even if it was not an entirely welcome association? Fences& Windows 01:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
People of Hungarian ethnicity and people of Hungarian nationality are both referred to by the term "Hungarians". This conflation of ethnicity and nationality is also characteristic of other ethnicities and nationalities in Europe and beyond. The implications of these conflations for the primary topic of Wikipedia articles has been discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#"Germans", "French people" etc - ethnicity vs nationality. This issue is also of relevance to our article on Hungarians. That leads to the question: What should be the primary topic of this article?
Krakkos ( talk) 15:22, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Up to 2013 this article was called Hungarian people, but it was renamed to its current name in early 2014. See discussion here: Talk:Hungarians/Archive 2#title. I was not keen on the rename because it seemed to me (and still does) that in normal English usage the word "Hungarians" means people from Hungary, not people with Hungarian ethnicity. If I see a headline "1,000 Hungarians tested positive yesterday" I know what it means; it doesn't include anyone living in Slovakia. I'd be happy for this article to be moved back to Hungarian people, which I regard as a better and more precise title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nigej ( talk • contribs) 15:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:03, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure considering the ongoing press towards state-controlled media produces reliable sources, and this isn't even a primary one. I would suggest deleting the relevant paragraph about asian origin.
Note that technically, all the uralic male lines are, indeed, of asian origin, but it does not necessitate Avar/Hun/Mongol/Turkic genesis, being off by some 20k+ years.
IsiKuu ( talk) 08:35, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
While I haven’t read the sources, as I don’t speak Hungarian, these seem to be one of those who try to claim Hungarians as Huns ValtteriLahti12 ( talk) 07:35, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
Okay I checked the source, as I found an English version, this needs to be rewritten, the source seems to be clearly supportive of Alternative theories of Hungarian origins ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6193700/). -- ValtteriLahti12 ( talk) 07:56, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
I wish to add the following alternate etymology for the word Magyar, under the section titled 'Name'. And possibly clean up that entire section.
In 2018 it was argued that Magyar literally means "strength from the womb", and is derived from the Indo-Aryan words ma/maha (mighty, strong) + dhara (womb, preserving). [1] Taken into account for this etymology is the Hungarian Legend of the Turul. In this legend the leaders wife has a dream in which she is impregnated by a bird, and from her womb spills forth a prosperous nation. The leaders son is given the name Almos which refers to the dream. Given the importance of this dream to the early Hungarians, it is only logical that the people too would refer to this dream when referring to themselves as a nation.(ibid)
This entry was removed as being "slightly fringe". The entry cites a peer reviewed journal as its source and thus meets Wikipedia's contribution guidelines. Correct the citation references information that challenges the notion that the Finno-Ugrian languages are unrelated to other language families, but that in itself does not render it unsuitable for submission. If that was the case then this entire section would not exist.
The section currently speculates that Magyar is derived from a Hunnic word, yet the Huns spoke an Altaic language not Finno-Ugrian, and there is no evidence that the Huns even used the proposed words. This etymology definitely fits under fringe theories.
The reference to an "Old Hungarian" word "mogyër" is unreferenced and also incorrect. The old word "moger" specifically "hetumoger" is actually the Latin spelling used by Anonymous in the 13th century Gesta Hungorum. It is not "old Hungarian".
The reference to a Hungarian tribe called "Megyer" is a deliberate misquote of Edward Gibbons speculation in 1776, who himself cites Constantine VII and wrote "doubtlessly the name of a single tribe...Megere...Mazari...but without any suggestion that they are identical to with the Hungarians, whom he always called Turks". [2]
Constantine VII recorded the name Megere as one of eight tribes. [3] It was Markham who speculated that one name was recorded in error and that these must be the seven Hungarian tribes of Hungarian legend, the "Hetu Mogors". (ibid) Markham also misquotes Anonymous and turns "the seven persons (persone) who were called the hetumoger", into the "seven tribes".
There is no clear Finno-Ugrian root for Magyar so we must be able to discuss all valid theories and not limit the discussion to theories created in the 18th and 19th centuries when peer review and accuracy where not required. Magyar as a reference to the Turul dream is a valid theory. Archeologically it is now recognized that the Indo-Iranian and later Indo-Aryan Homeland was adjacent to the Finno-Ugrian zone, as the Andronovo culture. [4] Thus the extent to which the Indo-Iranians and later Indo-Aryans influenced the Finno-Ugrians is a valid field of exploration, and is no longer a fringe topic.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:7cc3:a100:70e9:8d13:524c:3248 ( talk) 23:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
The data of Ukraine with 1 800 000 Hungarian inhabitants is incorrect, this belongs to Romania (see the footnote!). Presently Romania disappeared! It is a result of vandalism I think. The correct number in case of Ukraine is 220 000 Hungarian inhabitants.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.44.98.227 ( talk) 01:51, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Do you recommend the inclusion of Kniezsa's ethnic map in the article gallery?
Previous arguments can be checked at Talk:Hungarians#Kniezsa.27s_ethnic_map 123Steller ( talk) 09:21, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
UTC)
Constantine VII in the De Administrando Imperio, writes about the Magyar tribes as Turcois ("Turks"), stating that they spoke a Turkic language. Today, in all schools from Turkey, and other Arabic countries, pupils learn that Hungarians, Bulgarians, Azers, Turkmens and Uzbeks are from Turkic family. Interestingly, a lot of words from Hungarian language are today in the Turkic language. Recco.
Hello, KIENGIR; to answer your question, no, Hungarians are not a Turkic peoples in any way, shape or form. They are not culturally, genetically or linguistically related to the Turkic peoples and language family in any way. Also, i'm interested and have to ask, where did you hear that in Turkish schools that students are taught that Hungarians are Turkic or that there are a lot of Hungarian words in Turkish? Because that is not true.
Not to mention, Pan-Turkism is a radical Turkish far-right nationalist movement attempting to group the Uralic, Finnic, and Turkic branches and peoples into one so I wouldn't take them seriously in any way. As for Turkish loanwords in Hungarian, there are very few because Hungary was not under Ottoman control for a long time (only one century and a half, compared to their Balkan southern neighbors which were for over half a millennia aka almost 500 years) and that once Hungarians reclaimed their southern land from Turkish control they tended to destroy almost all forms of Ottoman reminders such as mosques, administrations, buildings, etc. - 2600:1001:B12D:682:2A35:2AD:2F04:320B ( talk) 22:50, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
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Opluset, sorry, not I was the one who altered the lead recurrently, I just restored it. "Finno-Ugric" is not an ethnic group, but a language family, therefore it is fallacious and anyway not needed there, since "Hungarian" is the ethnic group itself. The rest of your edits were accepted.( KIENGIR ( talk) 20:04, 4 November 2017 (UTC))
Dear IP(s),
could you give an explanation why the same chamge is persisted, why the data regarding Denmark is overriden with the suspected data of Netherlands?
Thank You( KIENGIR ( talk) 19:46, 26 December 2017 (UTC))
Sorry but what on earth is a "European" and what the heck is an Asian for that matter? It may be sourced but since when did continents, especially fake continents, come to have progenitors? All the author can possibly mean is that the lands were already inhabited, whilst "Asia" just happens to have been the most recent location at the time that those Magyars were living. Needs rewriting. -- Coldtrack ( talk) 23:39, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
In all honesty it generally should be clear in a layman's context what the term "European" means here, but I changed the wording of the sentence anyway so it would be more specific. ReformedPenal ( talk) 15:03, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
please add link to "see also" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.218.1.77 ( talk) 02:37, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
Hungarians, also known as Magyars: this is a wrong assumption to start with. The adjective Hungarian in English does not differentiate between the inhabitants of Hungary and ethnic Magyars, but these are two different concepts. I will edit this entry when I have a little time on my hands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leiduowen ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
"The Pope approved Hungarian settlement in the area when their leaders converted to Christianity ..."
Aproved? APPROVED???? Nobody asked that bloke! Not even the traitor steven! REMEMBER! Steven had VETO power in the papal election! So did all Magyar kings! The pope was liking steven's aaammm ... just to make him be part of the catholic empire. Hungary was THE! major force in Europe at the time.
Let us all remember, in 907 the united German forces attacked the Hungarians. "Ugros to be eliminated" was written on their flags. At Pozsony - Bratislava today - the whole German army was annihilated. The survivors run to Ennsburg where king Louise confronted the Magyars with his fresh army. King Loiuse's army was annihilated too and the Hungarians only stopped at the Ens river.
But this is 'conveniently' ignored to be able to say that "Pope approved Hungarian settlement".
The article is full of mistakes, lying by omissions and anti-Hungarian biased. It needs to be totally rewritten by an unbiased author! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.29.185 ( talk) 01:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC) There were mostly Southern German army in battle of Pozsony (Pressburg). ""Ugros to be eliminated" was written on their flags." That modern Urban legend was debunked long time ago: https://tenyleg.com/index.php?action=recordView&type=places&category_id=3115&id=1308636 -- Liltender ( talk) 09:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
The article mess up the info about ancient Hungarian samples and the researches about modern poplulations. Non-reliable university studies must be treated with cautions, since the Hungarian universities have not enough samples from modern Hungarian population to make reliable statements about modern Hungarians. Note, that they are often politically divided, and not trustfull. However the huge global American pop. genetic researcher laboratories like 23 and me, Familtree DNA, Acestry DNA etc... had teens of thousands of modern Hungarian samples and they are more neutral (not politically motivated). -- Free Royal City ( talk) 07:53, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
We must conclude that the population genetics is strongly based on statisticcal methodes, thus the precision is relie on the number of samples. Many Hungarian Wiki editors can not understand , that small university labs are not able to genetrically determine modern populations, because of the lack of money and enough big staff to make mass sample genetic reserarches. So many of the Hungarian editors come up weith the laughable argument, that it is a "university research" thus it is serious think.... simply ridiculous argument. blah blah blah..... Both the equipment and large statistical database of the global big companies are not comparable with this tini university labs. Even the knowledge of scholars of these global companies are more up to date than this small universities. Moreover they are unbiassed and independent of the bellow mention political ideological fights of Hungary:
Danger from the Right-WING self-appointed "shaman-scholars": , or the "Are you anti-Hungarian?" synrome:
The pseudo scientific Turanist (Hun Scythian Partian Sumerian Turk tales) research center was estabilished in Hungary (Magyarságkutató intézet) by the goverment, as a counter institution for the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, because the Academy can remian more independent institution, and did not follow the political wishes. And there is the probléem of interpretation of ethnicity in modern Hungary (politically it was not such a problem before 1945). They often include different identity groups like Jassic and neo-Cuman people, automatically as ethnic Hungarians. Yes some cumans survived the Great Ottoman wars in the historic Cumania reserve area (called as Kunság in Hungarian). These people often have also dual identity. In other countries doesn't make national or ideological problem if some different origin subgroups were researched separatedly. However in Hungary it is a scandal, because these so-called historically very loyal neo-Cumans and Jassic people are "DESERVES" to be coubnted as ethnic Hungarians. Yes they are politically Hungarians and they spoke Hungarian language since the 17th century, but science can not based on emotions, like "they deserve to be ethnic Hungarians because of their loyality". Don't forget, these subgroups in Alföld region have very different typically Eastern European traditional material culture instead of Central European material Culture in Hungary, and they had strong own seprarted identity before the communism!
The danger from the Leftist - Liberals in Hungary: ( "Are you nazi?" type syndrome )
However not only the far-right ideologies represent danger for real good quality reliable pop. genetic researches, but their opponents the leftist liberal circles too.. Some people on the left and liberals considers everybody equally Hungarians, who have citizenship or born in Hungary. This is known as the so-called "Political nation" in every countrires. It based on citizenship and simple identity. According to this logic Everybody is automatically Hungarian, who consider himself a Hungarian. This leftist liberal circles deny the existence of any ethnic groups, not only the Hungarian but also all other ethnicites in Europe, and they became angry when they hear the words "ethnic - Hungarian", but they became similar angry when they hear ethnic German ethnic Pole ethnic Czech , etc.... because they can accept only "Political nation". In this regard they are indifferent to their other European leftist-liberal thining people. For example some leftist liberal researches automatically included the verly mixed highly multi-cultural Budapest in the population genetic researches without making consideration about the Austro-Hungarian era multi-ethnic past of the city. For example in the 2000s if somebody mentioned that Jews must be counted as separate ethnic group in genetic researches (not as ethnic Hungarians), it caused scandal, and the leftist liberals called this as type of nazi fascist attitude. Fortunatelly, Nowadays it slowly changed.
However the rightist interpretation with their anti-Academy institution (Magyarságkutató Intézet) did not changed at all.
I also noticed They are also affraid (or don't have money in their small labs) to make comparison of various big regions in Hungary, and compute genetic distances of the people of these regions. Some of these nationalist thinking researchers somehow affraid, that the result would "harm" the identity of various reginal populations. (Which I found really childish and ridiculous in the 21th century) For example, 2 million people live from the Alföld region, and it include 60% of the territory of Hungary. It is the most effected by the wars, and the so-called genetic overlay effect was shocking high during the history. One of the most heterogenous origin peoplation live on the Alföld, who had very weak (the veakest) link with the Hungarian speaking population of medieval Kingdom of Hungary. The other propblem that the most of the far-right leaders in Hungary were born and raised in that region since the 20th century. The majority of these people would interpret their relatively high genetic difference from the rest of other Hungarian groups as that they are less Hungarian and "less valuabe" people because of that. IT is a very sad, stupid, but very common reaction from nationalist side. However similar agressive response can emerge from the leftist-liberals, who don't care, because everybody automatically and equally Hungarian including gypsy population due to the simple IUS SOLI concept and their citizenship, and if you don't agree with it, than you are a nazi.-- Free Royal City ( talk) 11:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Borsi, for you it is rather somehow frustrating topic. One of this man from muti-culti Alföld (Szeged) is Borsoka. He always became mad when he hear about genetics. Borsoka, as a human you have not lesser value because of your geographic origin. OK? Nobody attack your identity. He rather belong to the Left - Liberal type of problem of the pop. genetics question. Nobody look down on you because you were born in the Alföld. OK? Calm down Borsoka, we are living in the 21th century. WHo is Stubes? Your girlfriend?-- Free Royal City ( talk) 11:47, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I have always thought you are an expert of frustration, but this does not change the core of my message: you cannot edit. Borsoka ( talk) 13:36, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Dear Alföldicus! Do you want to permit to edit Wikipedia? On which term?-- Free Royal City ( talk) 15:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Alföldicus, you have rich fantasy.-- Free Royal City ( talk) 17:04, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I added a link to Austria-Hungary aka Austro-Hungarian Empire and it was removed. I thought it deserved at least a link; isn't that an important part of the history of Hungarians, even if it was not an entirely welcome association? Fences& Windows 01:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
People of Hungarian ethnicity and people of Hungarian nationality are both referred to by the term "Hungarians". This conflation of ethnicity and nationality is also characteristic of other ethnicities and nationalities in Europe and beyond. The implications of these conflations for the primary topic of Wikipedia articles has been discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#"Germans", "French people" etc - ethnicity vs nationality. This issue is also of relevance to our article on Hungarians. That leads to the question: What should be the primary topic of this article?
Krakkos ( talk) 15:22, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Up to 2013 this article was called Hungarian people, but it was renamed to its current name in early 2014. See discussion here: Talk:Hungarians/Archive 2#title. I was not keen on the rename because it seemed to me (and still does) that in normal English usage the word "Hungarians" means people from Hungary, not people with Hungarian ethnicity. If I see a headline "1,000 Hungarians tested positive yesterday" I know what it means; it doesn't include anyone living in Slovakia. I'd be happy for this article to be moved back to Hungarian people, which I regard as a better and more precise title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nigej ( talk • contribs) 15:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:03, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure considering the ongoing press towards state-controlled media produces reliable sources, and this isn't even a primary one. I would suggest deleting the relevant paragraph about asian origin.
Note that technically, all the uralic male lines are, indeed, of asian origin, but it does not necessitate Avar/Hun/Mongol/Turkic genesis, being off by some 20k+ years.
IsiKuu ( talk) 08:35, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
While I haven’t read the sources, as I don’t speak Hungarian, these seem to be one of those who try to claim Hungarians as Huns ValtteriLahti12 ( talk) 07:35, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
Okay I checked the source, as I found an English version, this needs to be rewritten, the source seems to be clearly supportive of Alternative theories of Hungarian origins ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6193700/). -- ValtteriLahti12 ( talk) 07:56, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
I wish to add the following alternate etymology for the word Magyar, under the section titled 'Name'. And possibly clean up that entire section.
In 2018 it was argued that Magyar literally means "strength from the womb", and is derived from the Indo-Aryan words ma/maha (mighty, strong) + dhara (womb, preserving). [1] Taken into account for this etymology is the Hungarian Legend of the Turul. In this legend the leaders wife has a dream in which she is impregnated by a bird, and from her womb spills forth a prosperous nation. The leaders son is given the name Almos which refers to the dream. Given the importance of this dream to the early Hungarians, it is only logical that the people too would refer to this dream when referring to themselves as a nation.(ibid)
This entry was removed as being "slightly fringe". The entry cites a peer reviewed journal as its source and thus meets Wikipedia's contribution guidelines. Correct the citation references information that challenges the notion that the Finno-Ugrian languages are unrelated to other language families, but that in itself does not render it unsuitable for submission. If that was the case then this entire section would not exist.
The section currently speculates that Magyar is derived from a Hunnic word, yet the Huns spoke an Altaic language not Finno-Ugrian, and there is no evidence that the Huns even used the proposed words. This etymology definitely fits under fringe theories.
The reference to an "Old Hungarian" word "mogyër" is unreferenced and also incorrect. The old word "moger" specifically "hetumoger" is actually the Latin spelling used by Anonymous in the 13th century Gesta Hungorum. It is not "old Hungarian".
The reference to a Hungarian tribe called "Megyer" is a deliberate misquote of Edward Gibbons speculation in 1776, who himself cites Constantine VII and wrote "doubtlessly the name of a single tribe...Megere...Mazari...but without any suggestion that they are identical to with the Hungarians, whom he always called Turks". [2]
Constantine VII recorded the name Megere as one of eight tribes. [3] It was Markham who speculated that one name was recorded in error and that these must be the seven Hungarian tribes of Hungarian legend, the "Hetu Mogors". (ibid) Markham also misquotes Anonymous and turns "the seven persons (persone) who were called the hetumoger", into the "seven tribes".
There is no clear Finno-Ugrian root for Magyar so we must be able to discuss all valid theories and not limit the discussion to theories created in the 18th and 19th centuries when peer review and accuracy where not required. Magyar as a reference to the Turul dream is a valid theory. Archeologically it is now recognized that the Indo-Iranian and later Indo-Aryan Homeland was adjacent to the Finno-Ugrian zone, as the Andronovo culture. [4] Thus the extent to which the Indo-Iranians and later Indo-Aryans influenced the Finno-Ugrians is a valid field of exploration, and is no longer a fringe topic.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:7cc3:a100:70e9:8d13:524c:3248 ( talk) 23:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
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The data of Ukraine with 1 800 000 Hungarian inhabitants is incorrect, this belongs to Romania (see the footnote!). Presently Romania disappeared! It is a result of vandalism I think. The correct number in case of Ukraine is 220 000 Hungarian inhabitants.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.44.98.227 ( talk) 01:51, 6 July 2022 (UTC)