This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
The principle behind Wikipedia is to contribute knowledge to all of us. Therefore, adding new insight is welcomed and by way of consequence so is editing the article in this respect. However, to get valuable edits may sometimes be quite difficult.
This Talk page is thought to exchange information and agree upon changes to the article such that only valuable edits really make it in the online version. The Talk page is structured to mirror the sections of the article such that it is as easy as possible to see if changing the online version really matters.
Below is a set of rules that I believe make sense for everybody who desires to contribute to this article. Please abide to them. I will revert any changes that do not follow these rules and I would like to ask all responsible editors of this article to do the same; although I will check regularly on this article, I can't be on the net 24/7. I hope we can all enjoy our hobby here :-). Best regards. Octavian8 ( talk) 09:39, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
To ensure a civilized and focused discussion that will contribute the article, I would like to add here a few rules:
Pleas feel free to add other sensible rules. Octavian8 ( talk) 09:39, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
A war can end in victory or defeat. The end of the war cannot be decisive, as it represents the outcome of the war. A battle can end with a decisive victory in which case it decides the outcome of a war. The result of the Hungarian-Romanian war is a Romanian victory. One could say, for example, that the battle of the Tisza river was a decisive Romanian victory. Octavian8 ( talk) 21:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
The article covers in detail the fighting between the Romanians and the Hungarians. Additional conflicts like those in Bessarabia and Upper Hungary are mentioned only to the extent they've influenced the course of the main conflict (i.e., here between Romanians and Hungarians). We should write separate articles on those topics and cross reference them. Therefore, I will leave on the belligerents list only Hungary/Soviet Hungary and Romania. Octavian8 ( talk) 10:16, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I am aware that France had a group of advisors in the Romanian army and they supplied some equipment, however, to my knowledge there were no French troops fighting against the Hungarians, hence France is not a belligerent. If anyone has referenced insight into this it would be a very welcomed addition. Until then I will delete France from the list of belligerents. Octavian8 ( talk) 16:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
I have added the Hungarian counter-revolutionary government as a third belligerent, since they were also involved, with Miklos Horthy as war minister. However, I kind of hesitated as to which article would aptly describe it. So far, there is no specific article dedicated to the counter-revolutionary government of 1919 (nor is there one about the Bela Miklos government of 1944-1945, BTW) : so I thought that the generic Kingdom of Hungary article could be used. The Horthy regency had not been established at that time, so I think the "Kingdom" is fine enough for now, since they classified as "royal" troops. If anyone has a better idea, I'm open to all suggestions. Jean-Jacques Georges ( talk) 14:26, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Again there nothing in the article about Slovakian reds fighting alongside the Hungarians. If anyone has information about this please mention it here first and we can think of a way of introducing it as well. Until then Soviet Slovakia is no belligerent. Also please let me mention this again: this article is about the Hungarian-Romanian war not about the Hungarian revolutionary wars. Additional conflicts like that with Czechoslovakia are mentioned only if they in some way influenced the Hungarian-Romanian war. Octavian8 ( talk) 17:14, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
The manpower of the two belligerents varied strongly during the duration of the war. For example in the war's second phase the Hungarian army mustered some 80000 soldiers, while in the third phase it had some 55000 prepared for the attack. The same could be said for the Romanian army that had some 50000 soldiers in the second phase, 62000 soldiers at the beginning of the third phase, and peaked by 96000 before crossing the Tisza. The two sides had even less soldiers at the beginning of the conflict. So it is difficult to give some numbers for the entire war - and the infobox refers to the entire war.
In the end, I believe it is fair to say that the two armies were comparable in strength, considering numbers, weapons, esprit de corps, availability of communication lines, fortifications, etc. This is what the strength entry in the infobox should reflect in just a few numbers. Approximating the mean number of available soldiers during the entire war, one comes to numbers in an interval around 60000. This is what should stay in the infobox, if we decide to leave this entry at all.
We can discuss here if you want, if the advantage in share numbers the Romanian army enjoyed in the end phase of the war was or was not compensated by the superior firepower of the Hungarian army - considering the largest caliber of the guns in their artillery. But for now, I will just put in the ~65000 number for both belligerents, which is as good a number as any ranging from 55000 to 65000. Or we could even reduce this to 60000 to abide by the number given in the Abstract. Octavian8 ( talk)
Does anybody have an overview of the Hungarian losses in this war, to add this info in the infobox at the beginning of the article. I found nothing until now. Octavian8 ( talk) 14:46, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I've modified the introduction section as Romanians who have declared independence of Transylvania neither represented any official authority nor had any legal basis to do so in the name of whole Transylvania, and the National Assembly was not representative, as other ethnic groups (Hungarians, Germans, Jews, etc.) were not represented. Thus, it seems more fair to me for the sentence to be phrased like this. Everyonesequal ( talk) 08:59, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
In the section 'Prelude', there is a link to the article Romania in WWI, therefore I fail to see how a recap of the beginning of the Romanian involvement in WWI ads something to this article. Also, within the article there is detailed data about the strength of the Hungarian Red Army troops facing the Romanians, to say that was a small fighting force is misleading, even if it may be true for the first weeks after the reds took power.
I am puzzled to see how simple and well documented facts could create such difficulties. The 1919 war was between HSR (i.e., Hungarian Soviet Republic) and Romania and was started, by the attack of the communist Hungarian army in 1919. Yes, the Romanian armies were in Transylvania from 1918 but, again, Hungary was a defeated country and, by signing the armistice, had to accept the victors’ decisions. The advance of the Romanian army in Transylvania was part these decisions and the Karolyi government complied with it. Only after Bela Kun and the communist party formed the HSR (to be noted that there was an other "white" Hungarian government at that time) the new organised Hungarian communist army began the conflict that is now called the "Hungarian-Romanian War". Tziganul ( talk) 15:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
But you failed to mention the Union of Transylvania with Romania. Without it, Romanian army would have never entered Transylavania. Dc76\ talk 18:31, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Again :) The Hungary's border were not "internationally recognized" therefore that was not a casus belli. At that time The French Army was in Transylvania and Hungary too, but then, what can be expected when the war is lost? Often, the victors' army enter the defeated state teritory. So that's not lack of my logic. Also, when the war ended, the Romanian Army initially retreated to the line along Theiss, later further east, but again, the war did not settled any borders, de facto or de jure. However, I don't mind if you came with any serious reference proving that. I have serious doubts you can because at Trianon that did not matter anyway. What I say is that even without war Romania would have get Transylvania. It is possible, actually, that they got even less than otherwise.-- Tziganul ( talk) 01:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Octavan8, you got to read any History book to find out that the new Romanian borders are the outcome of WWI and not the Romanian-HSR war. The so called HSR war was, actually, a reckless attack from the communist state. Do you suggest that the allies would have let Romania alone if the Hungarians would have been successful? I believe you try to exaggerate the importance of this conflict for Romania. It was important for Hungary, yes, because it ended the communist episode but, from the point of view of the new borders, it was completely irrelevant. Regardless of that, the Hungary was to be disarmed and accept the new borders.
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Tziganul (
talk •
contribs) 10:46, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
By saying that the Romanian army reached the border of the old Principality of Transylvania, I choose a neutral formulation. One can also argue that it was after 1 December so it was in Romania already. The formulation is here purely geographical and I tried to avoid any political influences. By adding the link, everybody can read and judge for himself whether that was the Kingdom of Hungary, Romania, the Roman, Bulgarian, or whatever empire. This way we talk here only about the Hu-Ro war of 1919. Octavian8 ( talk) 11:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
There are two dates for the declaration of support of unification with Romania from the Germans in the greater area of Transylvania. Most sources I could find on the Internet indicate December 15. There are also some references to January 8. I've reformulated the phrase to avoid naming dates. Octavian8 ( talk)
I have noticed that an editor warked on this section. I find the info very intersting, but it regretfully lacks refernces and is also in need of some editing with respect to the quality of the English language used. Pleas corrrect these aspects. Regards Octavian8 ( talk) 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Some editor added a phrase about Romania breaking an agreement by going over the demarcation line of the Vyx note and supported this claim by a cryptic citation. First I believe this should be explained in more detail. What agreement did Romania break? Who was part in this agreement? If by this is meant that Romania went over the demarcation line proposed to the Hungarians in the Vyx note and again by Smuts, but refused by them, which in turn lead to the Romanian attack that opened phase II of the conflict, than this is a redundant edit -- in the previous paragraph is already mentioned that the Romanians decided to go over the Vyx demarcation line for military reasons -- and I will delete it.
I am inclined to do so with the citation as well, though I am reluctant, as any meaningful citation is more than welcome, and even if the comment proves to be redundant, the citations are not. The citation should have: author, name of the book, edition, publisher, date and pages. If this is just a collection of texts by several authors, than include name of the authors that are cited, name of the book, publisher, volume and page, date. From the named citation I understand actually two citations:
Octavian8 ( talk) 09:42, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
The original title of the section was "The Hungarian attack in Czechoslovakia". An editor changed the title to "The Hungarian attack on Czechoslovaks in Upper Hungary" and also added some material in the section that I personally thought it was valuable. As nobody challenged the title and I thought it to be descriptive for the section, the title remained like this until now, when another editor (this time only with an IP address) replaced Upper Hungary with Slovakia.
I am aware that there are some delicate issues between Hungarians and Slovaks as there are also delicate issues between Hungarians and Romanians or Hungarians and Serbs. I believe that the solution in such cases is to simply stick to the facts. I propose, as a compromise solution, to return to the original title. In the end, Upper Hungary is mentioned like this in the section with a hint that it is currently in Slovakia.
Before changing the article anymore, please discuss first your issues here. Octavian8 ( talk) 18:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I would like to ask those editing this article (particularly the user Baxter9) to quit making redundant edits. I have no problems with edits contributing to the article, as long as they are made at the proper place and are not redundant.
In the section 'Prelude', there is a link to the article Romania in WWI, therefore I fail to see how a recap of the beginning of the Romanian involvement in WWI ads something to this article. Also, within the article there is detailed data about the strength of the Hungarian Red Army troops facing the Romanians, to say that was a small fighting force is misleading, even if it may be true for the first weeks after the reds took power.
In the section 'The Hungarian attack on Czechoslovaks in Upper Hungary', col. Stromfeld is already mentioned as the military leader of the Hungarian Army and it is also made clear that the advances of the Hungarian army were impressive. It is pointless to underline this by repetition.
The aftermath of the Hungarian attack into Czechoslovakia is discussed for technical reasons in the section 'Phase III' (in the beginning). There are mentioned and discussed both the promises and the pressures the Council put on Kun. It is therefore pointless to state these facts in the end of section 'The Hungarian attack on Czechoslovaks in Upper Hungary'.
The date I have for the Hungarian-Czechoslovak armistice is 23rd of June, not the 1st of July, and it is accordingly mentioned. If someone has other sources saying something else, please, discuss them first here in the talk page. Once we reach an understanding, we can make changes accordingly. Octavian8 ( talk) 20:53, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Before you tag the article, please have the decency to discuss your issues here. Octavian8 ( talk) 12:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
The Romanian POV just strikes out from this article and its tone is extremely slanted towards "Romanian interpretations". What's more, it contains tons of weasel words, biased assertions with no supporting inline citations whatsoever. It cannot be considered neutral, by no means; which is a pre-requisite for all articles on Wikipedia. Also, it is almost entirely devoid of the Hungarian coverage of events, although this has been improved a tiny bit recently by other editors. It would appear that it will take several years and thousands of edits to balance out all the defects.
It could rather be submitted for an essay competition, though...(perhaps in Romania)
--
Bizso (
talk) 21:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I am not really an editor of this article. In fact, it has been quite a while since I last read it. I took just now a sub-section at random, and did some minor copyedit. But I did not find any serious issues in that subsection. Do you see that subsection as problematic as well? Dc76\ talk 22:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
If nobody explains precisely what is unbalanced in the article, I will remove the tag. If you think the article is unbalanced, please point out the sections you are concerned about, and describe here, in the talk page, ways in which you think this could be improved. Octavian8 ( talk) 21:33, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I will remove this tag if nobody explains precisely, with respect to this article, what cleanup should be done. Octavian8 ( talk) 21:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
The references tags with regard to additional references and references in third party publications are covered by the infobox about English sources. Therefore, I've removed these tags as well. Octavian8 ( talk) 13:39, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
{{ Peacock}} |
{{ unbalanced}} |
{{ Too few opinions}} |
{{ Essay-like}} |
{{ Weasel}} |
{{ histinfo}} |
{{ Disputed}} |
{{ misleading}} |
{{ Refimprove}} |
{{ Primary sources}} |
{{ More footnotes}} |
{{ pagenumbers}} |
{{ Copyedit}} |
{{ Cleanup}} |
(14/14) |
Dear user:Bizso, dude, I thought you are nolonger interested in this article, so why vandalizing it? I understand your frustration, but perhaps it would be better to discharge it into sports rather than wasting my time and yours with these type of stupid jokes. Octavian8 ( talk) 13:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Octavian8 reverting edits which say that the Romanian army reached the border of Hungary and instead he added "the old border of the Transylvanian Proncipality".
[1]
[2] At that time Transylvania was part of Hungary, the principality was dissolved in 1711 (as an independent country) and later in 1867. Accept this fact. Your edits (the old border and principality replying for a non existing country) are redundant, not accurate and misleading.
The W. Carpathians did not constitute the border of the principality, because the Partium was also the part of it Dont try to hide the fact that the hungarins did not joined Romania. [3] The population of Transylvania in 1910 was 53.8% Romanian 31.6% Hungarian 10.7% German. Baxter9 ( talk) 13:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
The subject seems pretty much the same as Hungarian Revolutionary War. This is confirmed when you compare the various interwikis in each article. JJ Georges ( talk) 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
There is a scene at the end of the "Capitaine Conan" film where the Hungarian are trying to cross the Dniester defended by French troops. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.9.142.126 ( talk) 17:26, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Closed. This is a redirect and will be adjusted if the target page moves. Vegaswikian ( talk) 21:51, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Hungarian–Romanian War of 1919 → Hungarian War of 1919 – The name of the article is incorrect in my opinion. The Hungarian Revolutionary War is redirected here. The page has to deal with both "Hungarian-Czechoslovak war" and "Hungarian-Romanian war". The new name is an established English name. [4] Fakirbakir ( talk) 08:46, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||
|
The principle behind Wikipedia is to contribute knowledge to all of us. Therefore, adding new insight is welcomed and by way of consequence so is editing the article in this respect. However, to get valuable edits may sometimes be quite difficult.
This Talk page is thought to exchange information and agree upon changes to the article such that only valuable edits really make it in the online version. The Talk page is structured to mirror the sections of the article such that it is as easy as possible to see if changing the online version really matters.
Below is a set of rules that I believe make sense for everybody who desires to contribute to this article. Please abide to them. I will revert any changes that do not follow these rules and I would like to ask all responsible editors of this article to do the same; although I will check regularly on this article, I can't be on the net 24/7. I hope we can all enjoy our hobby here :-). Best regards. Octavian8 ( talk) 09:39, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
To ensure a civilized and focused discussion that will contribute the article, I would like to add here a few rules:
Pleas feel free to add other sensible rules. Octavian8 ( talk) 09:39, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
A war can end in victory or defeat. The end of the war cannot be decisive, as it represents the outcome of the war. A battle can end with a decisive victory in which case it decides the outcome of a war. The result of the Hungarian-Romanian war is a Romanian victory. One could say, for example, that the battle of the Tisza river was a decisive Romanian victory. Octavian8 ( talk) 21:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
The article covers in detail the fighting between the Romanians and the Hungarians. Additional conflicts like those in Bessarabia and Upper Hungary are mentioned only to the extent they've influenced the course of the main conflict (i.e., here between Romanians and Hungarians). We should write separate articles on those topics and cross reference them. Therefore, I will leave on the belligerents list only Hungary/Soviet Hungary and Romania. Octavian8 ( talk) 10:16, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I am aware that France had a group of advisors in the Romanian army and they supplied some equipment, however, to my knowledge there were no French troops fighting against the Hungarians, hence France is not a belligerent. If anyone has referenced insight into this it would be a very welcomed addition. Until then I will delete France from the list of belligerents. Octavian8 ( talk) 16:59, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
I have added the Hungarian counter-revolutionary government as a third belligerent, since they were also involved, with Miklos Horthy as war minister. However, I kind of hesitated as to which article would aptly describe it. So far, there is no specific article dedicated to the counter-revolutionary government of 1919 (nor is there one about the Bela Miklos government of 1944-1945, BTW) : so I thought that the generic Kingdom of Hungary article could be used. The Horthy regency had not been established at that time, so I think the "Kingdom" is fine enough for now, since they classified as "royal" troops. If anyone has a better idea, I'm open to all suggestions. Jean-Jacques Georges ( talk) 14:26, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Again there nothing in the article about Slovakian reds fighting alongside the Hungarians. If anyone has information about this please mention it here first and we can think of a way of introducing it as well. Until then Soviet Slovakia is no belligerent. Also please let me mention this again: this article is about the Hungarian-Romanian war not about the Hungarian revolutionary wars. Additional conflicts like that with Czechoslovakia are mentioned only if they in some way influenced the Hungarian-Romanian war. Octavian8 ( talk) 17:14, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
The manpower of the two belligerents varied strongly during the duration of the war. For example in the war's second phase the Hungarian army mustered some 80000 soldiers, while in the third phase it had some 55000 prepared for the attack. The same could be said for the Romanian army that had some 50000 soldiers in the second phase, 62000 soldiers at the beginning of the third phase, and peaked by 96000 before crossing the Tisza. The two sides had even less soldiers at the beginning of the conflict. So it is difficult to give some numbers for the entire war - and the infobox refers to the entire war.
In the end, I believe it is fair to say that the two armies were comparable in strength, considering numbers, weapons, esprit de corps, availability of communication lines, fortifications, etc. This is what the strength entry in the infobox should reflect in just a few numbers. Approximating the mean number of available soldiers during the entire war, one comes to numbers in an interval around 60000. This is what should stay in the infobox, if we decide to leave this entry at all.
We can discuss here if you want, if the advantage in share numbers the Romanian army enjoyed in the end phase of the war was or was not compensated by the superior firepower of the Hungarian army - considering the largest caliber of the guns in their artillery. But for now, I will just put in the ~65000 number for both belligerents, which is as good a number as any ranging from 55000 to 65000. Or we could even reduce this to 60000 to abide by the number given in the Abstract. Octavian8 ( talk)
Does anybody have an overview of the Hungarian losses in this war, to add this info in the infobox at the beginning of the article. I found nothing until now. Octavian8 ( talk) 14:46, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I've modified the introduction section as Romanians who have declared independence of Transylvania neither represented any official authority nor had any legal basis to do so in the name of whole Transylvania, and the National Assembly was not representative, as other ethnic groups (Hungarians, Germans, Jews, etc.) were not represented. Thus, it seems more fair to me for the sentence to be phrased like this. Everyonesequal ( talk) 08:59, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
In the section 'Prelude', there is a link to the article Romania in WWI, therefore I fail to see how a recap of the beginning of the Romanian involvement in WWI ads something to this article. Also, within the article there is detailed data about the strength of the Hungarian Red Army troops facing the Romanians, to say that was a small fighting force is misleading, even if it may be true for the first weeks after the reds took power.
I am puzzled to see how simple and well documented facts could create such difficulties. The 1919 war was between HSR (i.e., Hungarian Soviet Republic) and Romania and was started, by the attack of the communist Hungarian army in 1919. Yes, the Romanian armies were in Transylvania from 1918 but, again, Hungary was a defeated country and, by signing the armistice, had to accept the victors’ decisions. The advance of the Romanian army in Transylvania was part these decisions and the Karolyi government complied with it. Only after Bela Kun and the communist party formed the HSR (to be noted that there was an other "white" Hungarian government at that time) the new organised Hungarian communist army began the conflict that is now called the "Hungarian-Romanian War". Tziganul ( talk) 15:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
But you failed to mention the Union of Transylvania with Romania. Without it, Romanian army would have never entered Transylavania. Dc76\ talk 18:31, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Again :) The Hungary's border were not "internationally recognized" therefore that was not a casus belli. At that time The French Army was in Transylvania and Hungary too, but then, what can be expected when the war is lost? Often, the victors' army enter the defeated state teritory. So that's not lack of my logic. Also, when the war ended, the Romanian Army initially retreated to the line along Theiss, later further east, but again, the war did not settled any borders, de facto or de jure. However, I don't mind if you came with any serious reference proving that. I have serious doubts you can because at Trianon that did not matter anyway. What I say is that even without war Romania would have get Transylvania. It is possible, actually, that they got even less than otherwise.-- Tziganul ( talk) 01:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Octavan8, you got to read any History book to find out that the new Romanian borders are the outcome of WWI and not the Romanian-HSR war. The so called HSR war was, actually, a reckless attack from the communist state. Do you suggest that the allies would have let Romania alone if the Hungarians would have been successful? I believe you try to exaggerate the importance of this conflict for Romania. It was important for Hungary, yes, because it ended the communist episode but, from the point of view of the new borders, it was completely irrelevant. Regardless of that, the Hungary was to be disarmed and accept the new borders.
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Tziganul (
talk •
contribs) 10:46, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
By saying that the Romanian army reached the border of the old Principality of Transylvania, I choose a neutral formulation. One can also argue that it was after 1 December so it was in Romania already. The formulation is here purely geographical and I tried to avoid any political influences. By adding the link, everybody can read and judge for himself whether that was the Kingdom of Hungary, Romania, the Roman, Bulgarian, or whatever empire. This way we talk here only about the Hu-Ro war of 1919. Octavian8 ( talk) 11:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
There are two dates for the declaration of support of unification with Romania from the Germans in the greater area of Transylvania. Most sources I could find on the Internet indicate December 15. There are also some references to January 8. I've reformulated the phrase to avoid naming dates. Octavian8 ( talk)
I have noticed that an editor warked on this section. I find the info very intersting, but it regretfully lacks refernces and is also in need of some editing with respect to the quality of the English language used. Pleas corrrect these aspects. Regards Octavian8 ( talk) 18:30, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Some editor added a phrase about Romania breaking an agreement by going over the demarcation line of the Vyx note and supported this claim by a cryptic citation. First I believe this should be explained in more detail. What agreement did Romania break? Who was part in this agreement? If by this is meant that Romania went over the demarcation line proposed to the Hungarians in the Vyx note and again by Smuts, but refused by them, which in turn lead to the Romanian attack that opened phase II of the conflict, than this is a redundant edit -- in the previous paragraph is already mentioned that the Romanians decided to go over the Vyx demarcation line for military reasons -- and I will delete it.
I am inclined to do so with the citation as well, though I am reluctant, as any meaningful citation is more than welcome, and even if the comment proves to be redundant, the citations are not. The citation should have: author, name of the book, edition, publisher, date and pages. If this is just a collection of texts by several authors, than include name of the authors that are cited, name of the book, publisher, volume and page, date. From the named citation I understand actually two citations:
Octavian8 ( talk) 09:42, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
The original title of the section was "The Hungarian attack in Czechoslovakia". An editor changed the title to "The Hungarian attack on Czechoslovaks in Upper Hungary" and also added some material in the section that I personally thought it was valuable. As nobody challenged the title and I thought it to be descriptive for the section, the title remained like this until now, when another editor (this time only with an IP address) replaced Upper Hungary with Slovakia.
I am aware that there are some delicate issues between Hungarians and Slovaks as there are also delicate issues between Hungarians and Romanians or Hungarians and Serbs. I believe that the solution in such cases is to simply stick to the facts. I propose, as a compromise solution, to return to the original title. In the end, Upper Hungary is mentioned like this in the section with a hint that it is currently in Slovakia.
Before changing the article anymore, please discuss first your issues here. Octavian8 ( talk) 18:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I would like to ask those editing this article (particularly the user Baxter9) to quit making redundant edits. I have no problems with edits contributing to the article, as long as they are made at the proper place and are not redundant.
In the section 'Prelude', there is a link to the article Romania in WWI, therefore I fail to see how a recap of the beginning of the Romanian involvement in WWI ads something to this article. Also, within the article there is detailed data about the strength of the Hungarian Red Army troops facing the Romanians, to say that was a small fighting force is misleading, even if it may be true for the first weeks after the reds took power.
In the section 'The Hungarian attack on Czechoslovaks in Upper Hungary', col. Stromfeld is already mentioned as the military leader of the Hungarian Army and it is also made clear that the advances of the Hungarian army were impressive. It is pointless to underline this by repetition.
The aftermath of the Hungarian attack into Czechoslovakia is discussed for technical reasons in the section 'Phase III' (in the beginning). There are mentioned and discussed both the promises and the pressures the Council put on Kun. It is therefore pointless to state these facts in the end of section 'The Hungarian attack on Czechoslovaks in Upper Hungary'.
The date I have for the Hungarian-Czechoslovak armistice is 23rd of June, not the 1st of July, and it is accordingly mentioned. If someone has other sources saying something else, please, discuss them first here in the talk page. Once we reach an understanding, we can make changes accordingly. Octavian8 ( talk) 20:53, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Before you tag the article, please have the decency to discuss your issues here. Octavian8 ( talk) 12:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
The Romanian POV just strikes out from this article and its tone is extremely slanted towards "Romanian interpretations". What's more, it contains tons of weasel words, biased assertions with no supporting inline citations whatsoever. It cannot be considered neutral, by no means; which is a pre-requisite for all articles on Wikipedia. Also, it is almost entirely devoid of the Hungarian coverage of events, although this has been improved a tiny bit recently by other editors. It would appear that it will take several years and thousands of edits to balance out all the defects.
It could rather be submitted for an essay competition, though...(perhaps in Romania)
--
Bizso (
talk) 21:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I am not really an editor of this article. In fact, it has been quite a while since I last read it. I took just now a sub-section at random, and did some minor copyedit. But I did not find any serious issues in that subsection. Do you see that subsection as problematic as well? Dc76\ talk 22:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
If nobody explains precisely what is unbalanced in the article, I will remove the tag. If you think the article is unbalanced, please point out the sections you are concerned about, and describe here, in the talk page, ways in which you think this could be improved. Octavian8 ( talk) 21:33, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I will remove this tag if nobody explains precisely, with respect to this article, what cleanup should be done. Octavian8 ( talk) 21:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
The references tags with regard to additional references and references in third party publications are covered by the infobox about English sources. Therefore, I've removed these tags as well. Octavian8 ( talk) 13:39, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
{{ Peacock}} |
{{ unbalanced}} |
{{ Too few opinions}} |
{{ Essay-like}} |
{{ Weasel}} |
{{ histinfo}} |
{{ Disputed}} |
{{ misleading}} |
{{ Refimprove}} |
{{ Primary sources}} |
{{ More footnotes}} |
{{ pagenumbers}} |
{{ Copyedit}} |
{{ Cleanup}} |
(14/14) |
Dear user:Bizso, dude, I thought you are nolonger interested in this article, so why vandalizing it? I understand your frustration, but perhaps it would be better to discharge it into sports rather than wasting my time and yours with these type of stupid jokes. Octavian8 ( talk) 13:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Octavian8 reverting edits which say that the Romanian army reached the border of Hungary and instead he added "the old border of the Transylvanian Proncipality".
[1]
[2] At that time Transylvania was part of Hungary, the principality was dissolved in 1711 (as an independent country) and later in 1867. Accept this fact. Your edits (the old border and principality replying for a non existing country) are redundant, not accurate and misleading.
The W. Carpathians did not constitute the border of the principality, because the Partium was also the part of it Dont try to hide the fact that the hungarins did not joined Romania. [3] The population of Transylvania in 1910 was 53.8% Romanian 31.6% Hungarian 10.7% German. Baxter9 ( talk) 13:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
The subject seems pretty much the same as Hungarian Revolutionary War. This is confirmed when you compare the various interwikis in each article. JJ Georges ( talk) 00:07, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
There is a scene at the end of the "Capitaine Conan" film where the Hungarian are trying to cross the Dniester defended by French troops. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.9.142.126 ( talk) 17:26, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Closed. This is a redirect and will be adjusted if the target page moves. Vegaswikian ( talk) 21:51, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Hungarian–Romanian War of 1919 → Hungarian War of 1919 – The name of the article is incorrect in my opinion. The Hungarian Revolutionary War is redirected here. The page has to deal with both "Hungarian-Czechoslovak war" and "Hungarian-Romanian war". The new name is an established English name. [4] Fakirbakir ( talk) 08:46, 14 September 2011 (UTC)