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Could someone give me a source to a study showing that women who have only ever had one partner don't even think about penis size? I think its the fault of us men that women think about it. We encourage them to have multiple partners, not valuing their virginity, and then complain that our girlfriends and wives are comparing us to previous partners. Fact is, most women have their first orgasm at some point from a penis, "large" or "small", and are happy about it, and with the exceptio of micropenis, I'm sure any woman who can come can come with a below average-sized penis, and she can enjoy it her entire life, and not want anything else. Or, one of us men with a different penis can come along and try to do better, resulting in the whole issue of comparing penis sizes.-- ChadThomson 07:41, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
23/4/5: I've added the witty riposte to the question 'how long is your cock?' published a few years ago. It belongs in Wikipedia somewhere, I think, but I'm not sure where. There's probably a better place ...
My edit was that the size of their partners, rather than theirs, might be of concern. I think that is fair, but may have been ambiguously worded. The Fellowship of the Troll 02:27, 14 Jan 2004 (UTC)
According to a class I'm taking in the Psychology department at the University of California, Santa Cruz, the issue of penis size is mostly relevant to the Western world. Editing the article accordingly; if you disagree, please cite research stating the contrary before doing so. (The text book we use is Our sexuality by Robert Crooks and Karla Baur.) Dpol 18:25, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The micropenis article says a micropenis is 2.5 SD's or more less than average is known as a micropenis, whereas this node gives 2 SD's. Could someone with medical reference material or the appropriate know-how please make these articles consistent, or if there is no consensus, add that these are loosely defined terms? -- fvw 00:42, 2004 Jun 13 (UTC)
It's like "short stature" for goodness' sake. I suspect 2 different people wrote the sentences in the two articles originally. Of course it's arbitrary! If you really want to know the real, actual, honest-to-God major purpose of the diagnosis "micropenis" it's so your insurance company will pay for the doctor consultation-- if we wrote "normal variation," you'd have to pay the bill yourself. (No offense intended of course... I just finished answering your quibble at talk:micropenis). If you want to check a penis growth curve, you can find one in Jones' Smith's Recognizable Patterns of Human Malformation published by Saunders. Alteripse 01:45, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
It makes sense that it's a fuzzily defined term, I just wonder if we should be giving exact numbers (without any indications of fuzziness like 'about' or 'approximately'), and inconsistent ones at that in that case. Have you got any preference for stating 2 or 2.5? I suggest we update both articles to give the same number using the word 'approximately'. -- fvw 23:26, 2004 Jun 13 (UTC)
OK, you asked nicely and I'm feeling guilty for my sarcasm. Here are some specifics:
It took me about 60 min to dig out and type these references, and I could probably find some more but they give you the flavor of what's out there. There is so much imprecision at the statistical edges that it doesn't have any practical difference to me (and I mean "practical" in the literal sense of daily "practice") whether we use -2 or -2.5 S.D. or whose paper you want to cite to the 0.1 cm. The real clinical problems lie well south of those criteria or have other evidence of trouble; the people at 3rd or 5th or 10th percentile are simply the "healthy but dissatisfied" to me and it's not always easy to help them see it that way in a constructive way. I hate encouraging people to turn human differences into diseases. Perhaps that will mitigate my dismissal of your questions last night, or at least help you understand. Please feel free to reconcile the articles. Alteripse 00:38, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
That was very informative (once again I vote we change "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" to "Wikipedia, more than you ever wanted to know"). I've made the articles consistent, thanks for the good work. -- fvw 02:01, 2004 Jun 14 (UTC)
Well, the article defines micropenises in terms of standard deviations of penis length, but doesn't tell us what those standard deviations are! Also note that the above references talk about stretched flaccid penises, not about erect penises like our article does. AxelBoldt 10:21, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Axel, I was trying to figure out where you were coming from with those questions. I didn't write the "main article" but I provided the paragraphs and references above because the user above asked for them. Card carrying pediatric endocrinologists don't think any "average" body measurement is worth diddly if the range of normal for the population isn't specified by percentile or by SD. So I supplied the SDs for the data above. Feel free to substitute these data sets into the main article if you too like data with SDs better.
As for the flaccid vs erect measurement, you are being way too serious here. Think for a moment how the data was collected, who did it, how one would obtain data on enough erect penises to be statistically significant, why someone who did have access to a thousand erect penises would know or care what statistical significance is (imagine
Francis Galton as a transsexual prostitute?), what ascertainment biases you would get if you tried, and what some of our congressmen would say if you applied for a federal grant to do it. If you have know of a better data set, this is wikipedia, so you are welcome to supply it.
My personal opinion, after having more try-to-be-therapeutic conversations about this than I ever wanted to, is that people come in all shapes and sizes. Someone who is convinced he has the equipment for the job really does have it, and someone who is convinced he doesn't really doesn't (though he is likely mistaken where his defect is located). It's really hard for a doctor to change the guy's conviction either way, and this article is way too long already.
Finally, don't you think this article reads like a transcript of a really earnest attempt by your average well-intentioned residence hall advisor to carry out a mandate from some dean who decided that all the freshmen need a "human sexuality" course because the administration couldn't trust him with a real task? Alteripse 22:52, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Thousands of erect penises. Wow. I'm getting a stiffy just thinking about it.
I removed If penis length followed a Gaussian distribution, about 0.6% of penises will be in the micropenis category. If there is evidence that the _causes_ of micropenis follow a Gaussian distribution, it's fine. Otherwise, its like using a study of those without a cold to estimate the incidence of colds: misleading. Jamesday 11:08, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm not sure your statistical assertion is correct and I'm sure your comparison with colds is incorrect. According to [1] a normal distribution is usually a reasonably good model for sizes of body parts. The reason the cold distribution is irrelevant is because it discontinuously varies-- there is a tiny percentage of the population who at any one time who have colds. At the edges of any normal distribution of body part size or any other human measurement are the group of people who have additional variables which have a large effect on the parameter being measured. To make clinically useful probability distributions, the population of people who have a disease affecting the parameter in a large way must be excluded from the people who are otherwise normal but at the edges of the population distribution. Potential paradoxes arise when we label a certain small percentage of the population as if they have a disease (as in idiopathic short stature or micropenis) when the only criterion for the diagnosis is to be in the lowest x percent of the population. So intelligent clinicians recognize that a normal distribution is a useable and useful model, and know when it is useful to use the model and when not to. Many useful models are approximations, useful for some purposes but not for others. Sort of like whether you consider the earth a sphere. For most purposes we can accurately consider it a sphere but of course it isn't quite a sphere exactly for some purposes. I think your comment is misplaced pedantry unless you can offer an alternative model that is both more accurate and useably simple. Alteripse 03:39, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Is it possible that a partial explantation for the difference between self-measurement and medical measurement is that measurement in a clinical setting is somewhat off-putting, leading to a reduction in the size of the erection? It would be interesting to see the difference between self-measurement, measurements made by male staff, and those made by attractive female staff in a single set of studies. -- Karada 12:34, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The other image that "measured by staff" conjures up is of a wooden meter measuring stick being used... -- The Anome 08:57, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
"The average size of black men is between half an inch and an inch bigger than whites, and Asians are on average about half an inch shorter in length. (But blacks come in all sizes. See Images of Size, which has a black men penis size gallery.) Penis girth seems to vary in proportion. And it appears that the vagina of each race is built to match! Here are some research findings:
We averaged the data on erect penis size and found the averages to be approximately: Orientals, 4 to 5.5 inches in length and 1.25 inches in diameter; Caucasians, 5.5 to 6 inches in length and 1.5 inches in diameter; Blacks, 6.25 to 8 inches in length and 2 inches in diameter. Women were proportionate to men, with Orientals having smaller vaginas and blacks larger ones, relative to Caucasians.
And apparently there are differences in testicle size as well:
Measurements taken from living subjects as well as those at autopsy, show the size of testicles is twofold lower in Asian men than Europeans (9 grams versus 21 grams), a difference too large to be accounted for entirely in terms of body size.
(Adapted from "Race differences in sexual behavior: Testing an evolutionary hypothesis." Journal of Research in Personality 21(4): pp. 536-7.)"
All material is copyright © 2004, so please don't reproduce our text without permission. We will take legal action against those who reprint our words of wisdom without permission.
"Jacobus was a surgeon in the French army who served in various colonial outposts, particularly North Africa, during the 1880s and 1890s. Because he was a physician, he had the opportunity to examine the organs of many males and females. Thus, Jacobus writes:
In no branch of the human race are the male organs more developed than in the African Negro. I am speaking of the penis only and not of the testicles, which are often smaller than those of the majority of Europeans.
The genital organ of the male is in proper proportion as regards size, to the dimensions of the female organ. In fact, with the exception of the Arab, who runs him very close in this respect, the Sudanese Negro possesses the largest genital organ of all the races of mankind."
Copyright © 1994 Vern L. Bullough and Bonnie Bullough All rights reserved
Fanon was a political activist and was trained as a psychiatrist. His books were on psychology and freedom and colonialization. Not ANATOMY. There is zero EVIDENCE in his works for his unsubstantiated claims on penis size. Further, the point of his work is the psychological relationship between the races of which penis size is thrown in as an unproved example, not someting he scientifically studied and proved. Quoting fanon on penis size is like quoting the bible on atoms.
from http://www.bookrags.com/biography/frantz-fanon/
The Algerian political theorist Frantz Fanon (1925-1961) analyzed the nature of racism and colonialism and developed a theory of violent anticolonialist struggle.
Frantz Fanon was born in the French colony of Martinique. He volunteered for the French army during World War II, and then, after being released from military service, he went to France, where he studied medicine and psychiatry from 1945 to 1950. In 1953 he was appointed head of the psychiatric department of a government hospital in Algeria, then a French territory. As a black man searching for his own identity in a white colonial culture, he experienced racism; as a psychiatrist, he studied the dynamics of racism and its effects on the individual.
In his first book, Black Skin, White Masks (1952), Fanon examined the social and psychological processes by which the white colonizers alienated the black natives from any indigenous black culture; he showed that blacks were made to feel inferior because of their colo.....
A whole section was deleted as an article error without explanation. This is not a productive way of editing an article. Please discuss what the error is. - Willmcw 22:44, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for providing the link to Rushton's article.
From http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/People/Rushton/rushtonsxev.html
"Differences in penis size between blacks and whites was a topic addressed by Nobile (1982) who published a table from Gebhard and Johnson (1979) from which statistically significant different averages were computed. The length of the erect penis for the white sample was 6.15 in. and for the black sample, 6.44 in"
So it has "no original" measurements. What's your point? What evidence is there that Rushton's source is unreliable? I'm not aware of any such evidence. If the sources are unreliable please point me to such evidence, or else leave the "blacks and whites have exactly the same size penis" section labeled "myths" out of the encyclopedia, if you please.
A long page on everything about human penis size without addressing the size differences that exist between species and the evolutionary forces that dictate (haha) those sizes. I've seen several sources claim that there is a general rule at work, among mammals at least, that the larger the penis, the more different males swive with a single female. The evolutionary theory here being that getting the semen in deeper gives an advantage to siring a child. This is also closely related to testicle size, with larger testicles required when more sex is happening. This is used to explain why the giant male silverback gorillas have a very small endowment compared to humans: the alpha male doesn't get cuckolded because he has scared the other males off.
See for reference: Sexual Organs and Hereorchonic Theory
-- Elijah 23:28, 2004 Dec 10 (UTC)
Yes, sociobiology deserves some mention here, it is well established for testes size eg Sperm competition, and there is some theory that the shape of the penis glans is optimized to 'sweep' out competing sperm from a prior insemination, arguing for the prevalence of gang rape in prehistoric human evolution.
Although there's no relation between foot and penis size, I have heard in a study which measured various body proportions and suggested a link between the length of the index finger and penis. Go figure. I've no source on this, but if anyone's interested there's probably info on webmd.com or in fairly recent studies.
The discussion seems to go on and on about trying to correlate penis size to other body part size, but for some reason articles (like this one) always omit the primary logical basis of this presumption, being that male puberty includes hormonal enlargement of features: the genitals, hands, feet, nose, shoulders, etc. Even if no correlation is found, it's logical to assume that 'more puberty' means bigger hands, bigger feet, and a bigger wang.
The article presently contradicts itself, saying at one point there is a direct correlation between flaccid and erect length, and then saying there is not. Which is it?
why isn't the "definitive internet survey" included in the data section? - Omegatron 18:04, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)
I always heard that, unlike most of cultures, in ancient Greece a small penis was considered desirable, and large penises were linked to bruteness and lack of spirit. I also heard that in the III Reich, the same discourse was sustained. Can anyone substantiate this?
I'm German, and you can be sure that penis- size wasn't a topic in the III. Reich. They had different topics to spend time on. Maybe it would be a nice to think of this topic, cause it kept them away from the other awfull stuff... Anyway its funny to read of the myths about the Nazi- time, even when the whole period wasn't fun at all.
I find it interesting that whenever the subject comes up, including in this article, there's a lot of talk about "men feel small when they are actually average" - but they almost always neglect men who actually ARE small. You have to understand that for every above average man with a large penis (ie. in porn films etc.) there is another unfortunate man who is that much BELOW average and has to go through life that way.
My point is that when it comes to penis size, helping genuinely average men feel better about being average is fine, but aren't we neglecting the men who really are below average and have to face all the stigma and fear from women and society?
Statistical data suggests that while the urban legends about larger hands and feet implying a larger penis may be true, the opposite is the case for the size of the nose.
Does anyone know whether surveys account for the fat pad which could be between 1/3" to 2" in men? It might cause a statistical anomoly if it not bone pressed. Something we need to address Raddicks 14:05, June 28, 2005 (UTC)
This issue needs to be seriously addressed we cant ignore it! Raddicks 04:11, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
Every dictionary I've checked says both "penises" and "penes" are acceptable. "Penises" is far more common. Sadly, I don't have access to the OED currently so I can't speak definitively. If someone could check the OED on this matter, I'd appreciate it. LizardWizard 17:49, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, Anon-68ish for bringing to our attention the Google Answer to the race/penis-size question. The information there should definitely be integrated into the article. However, just saying "there is a correlation" without even saying what that correlation is is not helpful. If the correlation is borne out by all the facts it will surely be in the article with a good discussion soon. I will help see to that.
If, instead, you insist your one-liner is better, mind that you don't fall on the wrong side of WP:3RR. Lizard Wizard 20:26, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
If someone wants to track these down and see what they say that'd be great, otherwise I'll get back to them later. Lizard Wizard 20:41, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
I generally get larger when cold, what's all this about cold people losing circulation to the extremities? the penis is hardly an extremity, and you'd have to be pretty damn cold. generally i've found that when it's cold, circulation -increases- in an attempt to warm things.. with blood!
There's a sentence that says, "A Dutch study found in 2002 that about 20-30% of women consider the size of a penis to be important.." There's no source whatsoever or anything further. Shall I delete?
Re the paragraph reading: -
Rushton's '95 publication is probably the poorest citation one could grab considering the amount of debunking of his work that has gone on. For example, the fact that the worlds smallest people come from equatorial regions shoots holes in the longer appendage theory. Jachin 02:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
The problem is that Rushton is one of the few citations readily available that actually purports to present data. Nevertheless, as poor as Rushton's publications may be from a scientific perspective, Fanon's argument is worse: his assertions are entirely ideological. No data whatsoever, but he is the epitome of political correctness. I think it better to leave both in, with perspective for readers, because if we take either out, someone is bound to re-insert references to one or both. alteripse 02:47, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
An unregistered User:203.194.35.83 deleted a portion that was referenced. The information came from a book written by a renown Gynecologist. Unless there's data to dispute his book and support the other alternatives, then by all means "chop away"..... Ariele 15:01, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
In the beginning portion of this page, there are two studies listed, which are preformed by UCSF, both of which are conducted by staff, and during the same year, and yet they have different findings. Only one of these findings is correct, and futhermore, may I ask User:Willmcw to delete one of them. He seems to be the expert on editing(based on his professionalism, and comments on almost every area of this talk page. -- CivilCasualty 03:00, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
"One of these theories says that the size of a fully erect penis is the length from the tip of a man's thumb to the tip of his index finger, when a 90° angle is made with those two fingers."
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Could someone give me a source to a study showing that women who have only ever had one partner don't even think about penis size? I think its the fault of us men that women think about it. We encourage them to have multiple partners, not valuing their virginity, and then complain that our girlfriends and wives are comparing us to previous partners. Fact is, most women have their first orgasm at some point from a penis, "large" or "small", and are happy about it, and with the exceptio of micropenis, I'm sure any woman who can come can come with a below average-sized penis, and she can enjoy it her entire life, and not want anything else. Or, one of us men with a different penis can come along and try to do better, resulting in the whole issue of comparing penis sizes.-- ChadThomson 07:41, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
23/4/5: I've added the witty riposte to the question 'how long is your cock?' published a few years ago. It belongs in Wikipedia somewhere, I think, but I'm not sure where. There's probably a better place ...
My edit was that the size of their partners, rather than theirs, might be of concern. I think that is fair, but may have been ambiguously worded. The Fellowship of the Troll 02:27, 14 Jan 2004 (UTC)
According to a class I'm taking in the Psychology department at the University of California, Santa Cruz, the issue of penis size is mostly relevant to the Western world. Editing the article accordingly; if you disagree, please cite research stating the contrary before doing so. (The text book we use is Our sexuality by Robert Crooks and Karla Baur.) Dpol 18:25, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The micropenis article says a micropenis is 2.5 SD's or more less than average is known as a micropenis, whereas this node gives 2 SD's. Could someone with medical reference material or the appropriate know-how please make these articles consistent, or if there is no consensus, add that these are loosely defined terms? -- fvw 00:42, 2004 Jun 13 (UTC)
It's like "short stature" for goodness' sake. I suspect 2 different people wrote the sentences in the two articles originally. Of course it's arbitrary! If you really want to know the real, actual, honest-to-God major purpose of the diagnosis "micropenis" it's so your insurance company will pay for the doctor consultation-- if we wrote "normal variation," you'd have to pay the bill yourself. (No offense intended of course... I just finished answering your quibble at talk:micropenis). If you want to check a penis growth curve, you can find one in Jones' Smith's Recognizable Patterns of Human Malformation published by Saunders. Alteripse 01:45, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
It makes sense that it's a fuzzily defined term, I just wonder if we should be giving exact numbers (without any indications of fuzziness like 'about' or 'approximately'), and inconsistent ones at that in that case. Have you got any preference for stating 2 or 2.5? I suggest we update both articles to give the same number using the word 'approximately'. -- fvw 23:26, 2004 Jun 13 (UTC)
OK, you asked nicely and I'm feeling guilty for my sarcasm. Here are some specifics:
It took me about 60 min to dig out and type these references, and I could probably find some more but they give you the flavor of what's out there. There is so much imprecision at the statistical edges that it doesn't have any practical difference to me (and I mean "practical" in the literal sense of daily "practice") whether we use -2 or -2.5 S.D. or whose paper you want to cite to the 0.1 cm. The real clinical problems lie well south of those criteria or have other evidence of trouble; the people at 3rd or 5th or 10th percentile are simply the "healthy but dissatisfied" to me and it's not always easy to help them see it that way in a constructive way. I hate encouraging people to turn human differences into diseases. Perhaps that will mitigate my dismissal of your questions last night, or at least help you understand. Please feel free to reconcile the articles. Alteripse 00:38, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
That was very informative (once again I vote we change "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" to "Wikipedia, more than you ever wanted to know"). I've made the articles consistent, thanks for the good work. -- fvw 02:01, 2004 Jun 14 (UTC)
Well, the article defines micropenises in terms of standard deviations of penis length, but doesn't tell us what those standard deviations are! Also note that the above references talk about stretched flaccid penises, not about erect penises like our article does. AxelBoldt 10:21, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Axel, I was trying to figure out where you were coming from with those questions. I didn't write the "main article" but I provided the paragraphs and references above because the user above asked for them. Card carrying pediatric endocrinologists don't think any "average" body measurement is worth diddly if the range of normal for the population isn't specified by percentile or by SD. So I supplied the SDs for the data above. Feel free to substitute these data sets into the main article if you too like data with SDs better.
As for the flaccid vs erect measurement, you are being way too serious here. Think for a moment how the data was collected, who did it, how one would obtain data on enough erect penises to be statistically significant, why someone who did have access to a thousand erect penises would know or care what statistical significance is (imagine
Francis Galton as a transsexual prostitute?), what ascertainment biases you would get if you tried, and what some of our congressmen would say if you applied for a federal grant to do it. If you have know of a better data set, this is wikipedia, so you are welcome to supply it.
My personal opinion, after having more try-to-be-therapeutic conversations about this than I ever wanted to, is that people come in all shapes and sizes. Someone who is convinced he has the equipment for the job really does have it, and someone who is convinced he doesn't really doesn't (though he is likely mistaken where his defect is located). It's really hard for a doctor to change the guy's conviction either way, and this article is way too long already.
Finally, don't you think this article reads like a transcript of a really earnest attempt by your average well-intentioned residence hall advisor to carry out a mandate from some dean who decided that all the freshmen need a "human sexuality" course because the administration couldn't trust him with a real task? Alteripse 22:52, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Thousands of erect penises. Wow. I'm getting a stiffy just thinking about it.
I removed If penis length followed a Gaussian distribution, about 0.6% of penises will be in the micropenis category. If there is evidence that the _causes_ of micropenis follow a Gaussian distribution, it's fine. Otherwise, its like using a study of those without a cold to estimate the incidence of colds: misleading. Jamesday 11:08, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm not sure your statistical assertion is correct and I'm sure your comparison with colds is incorrect. According to [1] a normal distribution is usually a reasonably good model for sizes of body parts. The reason the cold distribution is irrelevant is because it discontinuously varies-- there is a tiny percentage of the population who at any one time who have colds. At the edges of any normal distribution of body part size or any other human measurement are the group of people who have additional variables which have a large effect on the parameter being measured. To make clinically useful probability distributions, the population of people who have a disease affecting the parameter in a large way must be excluded from the people who are otherwise normal but at the edges of the population distribution. Potential paradoxes arise when we label a certain small percentage of the population as if they have a disease (as in idiopathic short stature or micropenis) when the only criterion for the diagnosis is to be in the lowest x percent of the population. So intelligent clinicians recognize that a normal distribution is a useable and useful model, and know when it is useful to use the model and when not to. Many useful models are approximations, useful for some purposes but not for others. Sort of like whether you consider the earth a sphere. For most purposes we can accurately consider it a sphere but of course it isn't quite a sphere exactly for some purposes. I think your comment is misplaced pedantry unless you can offer an alternative model that is both more accurate and useably simple. Alteripse 03:39, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Is it possible that a partial explantation for the difference between self-measurement and medical measurement is that measurement in a clinical setting is somewhat off-putting, leading to a reduction in the size of the erection? It would be interesting to see the difference between self-measurement, measurements made by male staff, and those made by attractive female staff in a single set of studies. -- Karada 12:34, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The other image that "measured by staff" conjures up is of a wooden meter measuring stick being used... -- The Anome 08:57, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
"The average size of black men is between half an inch and an inch bigger than whites, and Asians are on average about half an inch shorter in length. (But blacks come in all sizes. See Images of Size, which has a black men penis size gallery.) Penis girth seems to vary in proportion. And it appears that the vagina of each race is built to match! Here are some research findings:
We averaged the data on erect penis size and found the averages to be approximately: Orientals, 4 to 5.5 inches in length and 1.25 inches in diameter; Caucasians, 5.5 to 6 inches in length and 1.5 inches in diameter; Blacks, 6.25 to 8 inches in length and 2 inches in diameter. Women were proportionate to men, with Orientals having smaller vaginas and blacks larger ones, relative to Caucasians.
And apparently there are differences in testicle size as well:
Measurements taken from living subjects as well as those at autopsy, show the size of testicles is twofold lower in Asian men than Europeans (9 grams versus 21 grams), a difference too large to be accounted for entirely in terms of body size.
(Adapted from "Race differences in sexual behavior: Testing an evolutionary hypothesis." Journal of Research in Personality 21(4): pp. 536-7.)"
All material is copyright © 2004, so please don't reproduce our text without permission. We will take legal action against those who reprint our words of wisdom without permission.
"Jacobus was a surgeon in the French army who served in various colonial outposts, particularly North Africa, during the 1880s and 1890s. Because he was a physician, he had the opportunity to examine the organs of many males and females. Thus, Jacobus writes:
In no branch of the human race are the male organs more developed than in the African Negro. I am speaking of the penis only and not of the testicles, which are often smaller than those of the majority of Europeans.
The genital organ of the male is in proper proportion as regards size, to the dimensions of the female organ. In fact, with the exception of the Arab, who runs him very close in this respect, the Sudanese Negro possesses the largest genital organ of all the races of mankind."
Copyright © 1994 Vern L. Bullough and Bonnie Bullough All rights reserved
Fanon was a political activist and was trained as a psychiatrist. His books were on psychology and freedom and colonialization. Not ANATOMY. There is zero EVIDENCE in his works for his unsubstantiated claims on penis size. Further, the point of his work is the psychological relationship between the races of which penis size is thrown in as an unproved example, not someting he scientifically studied and proved. Quoting fanon on penis size is like quoting the bible on atoms.
from http://www.bookrags.com/biography/frantz-fanon/
The Algerian political theorist Frantz Fanon (1925-1961) analyzed the nature of racism and colonialism and developed a theory of violent anticolonialist struggle.
Frantz Fanon was born in the French colony of Martinique. He volunteered for the French army during World War II, and then, after being released from military service, he went to France, where he studied medicine and psychiatry from 1945 to 1950. In 1953 he was appointed head of the psychiatric department of a government hospital in Algeria, then a French territory. As a black man searching for his own identity in a white colonial culture, he experienced racism; as a psychiatrist, he studied the dynamics of racism and its effects on the individual.
In his first book, Black Skin, White Masks (1952), Fanon examined the social and psychological processes by which the white colonizers alienated the black natives from any indigenous black culture; he showed that blacks were made to feel inferior because of their colo.....
A whole section was deleted as an article error without explanation. This is not a productive way of editing an article. Please discuss what the error is. - Willmcw 22:44, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for providing the link to Rushton's article.
From http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/People/Rushton/rushtonsxev.html
"Differences in penis size between blacks and whites was a topic addressed by Nobile (1982) who published a table from Gebhard and Johnson (1979) from which statistically significant different averages were computed. The length of the erect penis for the white sample was 6.15 in. and for the black sample, 6.44 in"
So it has "no original" measurements. What's your point? What evidence is there that Rushton's source is unreliable? I'm not aware of any such evidence. If the sources are unreliable please point me to such evidence, or else leave the "blacks and whites have exactly the same size penis" section labeled "myths" out of the encyclopedia, if you please.
A long page on everything about human penis size without addressing the size differences that exist between species and the evolutionary forces that dictate (haha) those sizes. I've seen several sources claim that there is a general rule at work, among mammals at least, that the larger the penis, the more different males swive with a single female. The evolutionary theory here being that getting the semen in deeper gives an advantage to siring a child. This is also closely related to testicle size, with larger testicles required when more sex is happening. This is used to explain why the giant male silverback gorillas have a very small endowment compared to humans: the alpha male doesn't get cuckolded because he has scared the other males off.
See for reference: Sexual Organs and Hereorchonic Theory
-- Elijah 23:28, 2004 Dec 10 (UTC)
Yes, sociobiology deserves some mention here, it is well established for testes size eg Sperm competition, and there is some theory that the shape of the penis glans is optimized to 'sweep' out competing sperm from a prior insemination, arguing for the prevalence of gang rape in prehistoric human evolution.
Although there's no relation between foot and penis size, I have heard in a study which measured various body proportions and suggested a link between the length of the index finger and penis. Go figure. I've no source on this, but if anyone's interested there's probably info on webmd.com or in fairly recent studies.
The discussion seems to go on and on about trying to correlate penis size to other body part size, but for some reason articles (like this one) always omit the primary logical basis of this presumption, being that male puberty includes hormonal enlargement of features: the genitals, hands, feet, nose, shoulders, etc. Even if no correlation is found, it's logical to assume that 'more puberty' means bigger hands, bigger feet, and a bigger wang.
The article presently contradicts itself, saying at one point there is a direct correlation between flaccid and erect length, and then saying there is not. Which is it?
why isn't the "definitive internet survey" included in the data section? - Omegatron 18:04, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)
I always heard that, unlike most of cultures, in ancient Greece a small penis was considered desirable, and large penises were linked to bruteness and lack of spirit. I also heard that in the III Reich, the same discourse was sustained. Can anyone substantiate this?
I'm German, and you can be sure that penis- size wasn't a topic in the III. Reich. They had different topics to spend time on. Maybe it would be a nice to think of this topic, cause it kept them away from the other awfull stuff... Anyway its funny to read of the myths about the Nazi- time, even when the whole period wasn't fun at all.
I find it interesting that whenever the subject comes up, including in this article, there's a lot of talk about "men feel small when they are actually average" - but they almost always neglect men who actually ARE small. You have to understand that for every above average man with a large penis (ie. in porn films etc.) there is another unfortunate man who is that much BELOW average and has to go through life that way.
My point is that when it comes to penis size, helping genuinely average men feel better about being average is fine, but aren't we neglecting the men who really are below average and have to face all the stigma and fear from women and society?
Statistical data suggests that while the urban legends about larger hands and feet implying a larger penis may be true, the opposite is the case for the size of the nose.
Does anyone know whether surveys account for the fat pad which could be between 1/3" to 2" in men? It might cause a statistical anomoly if it not bone pressed. Something we need to address Raddicks 14:05, June 28, 2005 (UTC)
This issue needs to be seriously addressed we cant ignore it! Raddicks 04:11, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
Every dictionary I've checked says both "penises" and "penes" are acceptable. "Penises" is far more common. Sadly, I don't have access to the OED currently so I can't speak definitively. If someone could check the OED on this matter, I'd appreciate it. LizardWizard 17:49, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, Anon-68ish for bringing to our attention the Google Answer to the race/penis-size question. The information there should definitely be integrated into the article. However, just saying "there is a correlation" without even saying what that correlation is is not helpful. If the correlation is borne out by all the facts it will surely be in the article with a good discussion soon. I will help see to that.
If, instead, you insist your one-liner is better, mind that you don't fall on the wrong side of WP:3RR. Lizard Wizard 20:26, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
If someone wants to track these down and see what they say that'd be great, otherwise I'll get back to them later. Lizard Wizard 20:41, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
I generally get larger when cold, what's all this about cold people losing circulation to the extremities? the penis is hardly an extremity, and you'd have to be pretty damn cold. generally i've found that when it's cold, circulation -increases- in an attempt to warm things.. with blood!
There's a sentence that says, "A Dutch study found in 2002 that about 20-30% of women consider the size of a penis to be important.." There's no source whatsoever or anything further. Shall I delete?
Re the paragraph reading: -
Rushton's '95 publication is probably the poorest citation one could grab considering the amount of debunking of his work that has gone on. For example, the fact that the worlds smallest people come from equatorial regions shoots holes in the longer appendage theory. Jachin 02:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
The problem is that Rushton is one of the few citations readily available that actually purports to present data. Nevertheless, as poor as Rushton's publications may be from a scientific perspective, Fanon's argument is worse: his assertions are entirely ideological. No data whatsoever, but he is the epitome of political correctness. I think it better to leave both in, with perspective for readers, because if we take either out, someone is bound to re-insert references to one or both. alteripse 02:47, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
An unregistered User:203.194.35.83 deleted a portion that was referenced. The information came from a book written by a renown Gynecologist. Unless there's data to dispute his book and support the other alternatives, then by all means "chop away"..... Ariele 15:01, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
In the beginning portion of this page, there are two studies listed, which are preformed by UCSF, both of which are conducted by staff, and during the same year, and yet they have different findings. Only one of these findings is correct, and futhermore, may I ask User:Willmcw to delete one of them. He seems to be the expert on editing(based on his professionalism, and comments on almost every area of this talk page. -- CivilCasualty 03:00, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
"One of these theories says that the size of a fully erect penis is the length from the tip of a man's thumb to the tip of his index finger, when a 90° angle is made with those two fingers."