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Reviewer: Johannes Schade ( talk · contribs) 10:23, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Good day
Gitz6666. I propose to review your GA nomination "Hugo Krabbe". Admittedly, I am only an apprentice-reviewer. I must also warn you that my English is 2nd language and that I am no subject-matter expert. I will propose corrections and suggest optional improvements. The corrections rely on the GA criteria (WP:GACR). Some are tentative. Please tell me whenever you disagree with a correction. I am probably wrong. You can ignore my suggestions. They have no effect on the article's promotion. Should I lack in respect, do not hesitate to complain (see WP:CIVIL).
I will start with the preliminaries and then go through the article's section, sometimes returning to previous sections when needed. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 10:23, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
|birth_date=
– I would add the lifespan in years as "(1857–1936)" (see WP:SDDATES) and omit the "public" (I see that the article
International law mentions the term "public international law" but "public lawyer" does not seem to be widely used).|
– I suggest (but am not very sure about it)|
– Please remove, it has no effectI believe you do not want the frame around the image.
|image=
– I would use the template "CSS image crop" to ged rid of the frame; e.g. | image = {{CSS image crop|Image=Portret van Hugo Krabbe, hoogleraar Rechtsgeleerdheid te Leiden Icones 323.tiff|bSize=450|cWidth=220|cHeight=250|oTop=75|oLeft=140|Location=center}}|discipline=
– I would believe the discipline is "law" or "international law" and not "public lawyer".
Johannes Schade (
talk)
18:02, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
|discipline=
– The lead calls his discipline "public international law" and links it to the article
International law. Which one is right? Whatever you choose, link it also in the infobox. Links in the lead, the body, and in each entry in the infobox are considered separate (MOS:REPEATLINK).|Institutions=
– Link "Leiden University" (MOS:REPEATLINK)|Notable ideas=
– Wikipedia has an article
Monism and dialism in international law link the word "monism" to it.The lead should probably also mention that Krabbe was a professor at the universities of Groningen and Leiden.
... (3 February 1857 – 4 February 1936) ...– I know many or most biographies do it so, but please consider also the option to give the years only, i.e. (1857–1936) in the lead and then give the full dates in the body. Besides, as I understand it, you cannot give the dates only in the lead, as you do. With very few exceptions, everything in the lead should summarise more detailed information in the body.
... Hans Kelsen ...– The juxtaposition of the name Hans Kelsen at the end of the 2nd sentence and the beginning of the 3rd sentence is awkward. I would think that most readers never heard before of either Krabbe or Kelsen. I feel that Kelsen should be introduced further down and the immediate repetition of the name should be avoided, but there are obviously also other solutions.
... identified state and law ...– I would guess you mean "identified the state with its laws" or in other words "identified the state and its laws with each other". I wonder whether there is not a better verb for "identify".
We will probably have to return to the Lead after a first traverse of the text. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Born ... University– The first sentence brings us from his birth to university. in one long sentence. I would break that sentence at least into two. Beyond the length of the sentence, the reason to break it is that in the 2nd sentence to jump back to the time when he already worked while still in highschool. A biography should as far as possible present events in chronological order.
... his diploma ...– "his diploma" sounds very vague. Do you mean his matric?
While in collage ...– I believe this is based on Kranenburg (1937b) "terwijl hij reeds als ambtenaar in de practijk der administratie werkzaam was, aan deze Universiteit gepromoveerd", meening that he was employed by the Dutch state (in fact the courts) at a time near the end of his studies before his thesis. The work "college" in English can mean either a highschool or a college as part of a university (see College). So please reformulate this sentence to make this clear that he was studying at the university at the time.
On 2 July 1883 he obtained his doctorate ...– Peletier tells us that his Ph. D. advisor was Johannes Theodorus Buys . It would be nice to mention him as the Dutch (quite short) and the German (with some more detail) Wikipedias have articles on him.
Krabbe was subsequently ...– The parentheses in this sentence serve purposes that are too disparate. Please try to do without them or at least use them less. You are probably right to give these three Dutch administrative ranks without translation. It seems all three mentioned rank names are now obsolete.
In 1888, he became ...– Please reformulate to make it clear that his move from Justice to the Department of Home Affairs is more important than the change in the name of his rank. I suspect that the names commies-chef and hoofdcommies mean the same rank, only that Home-Affairs styled it more Dutch and Justice more French. These are low ranks. I would guess his move to Home Affairs was a clever career move with some help from his liberal friends, among which, Professor Buys.
Under the direction of the minister ...– I feel this should be treated with a bit more detail. The reader must understand that the Dutch democracy at that time was quite plutocratic and elitist, which was not an exeption in Europe at the time. Give a date for when this reform of the electoral system was proposed and finally rejected.
Partly through Tak van Poortvliet's ...– I suggest to start a new paragraph with the beginning of this sentence as we enter now the subject's university career. With thanks and greetings, Johannes Schade ( talk) 17:20, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
|
– Please remove, it has no effect|notable works ...=
– Despite WP:NOBR, the use of the break tag is often difficult to avoid entirely. In Wikipedia always use <br />, not <br> or <br/>. However, for the infobox parameter "no_works" use a list, e.g. .With thanks Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
... and Maria Adriana Machteld Scholten.– I suggest you insert "his wife" before her name as you cite (rightly so) his mother's maiden name in this place.
... Stedelijk Gymnasium in Leiden– Wikipedia has an article about the school Stedelijk Gymnasium Leiden. I suggest you link to this rather than to Gymnasium (school).
... De werkkring van den staat ...– The word werkkring "work ring" is difficult to translate. I think your translation comes from the German version of the article, which uses office (besides, in the plural: "Büros"). Krabbe's speech is available at Google Books at https://www.google.com/books?id=uQpWAAAAcAAJ. I had a look and I find that Krabbe's speech focuses on the question of how far the state should intervene and how far it should refrein from action— the "laissez-faire" of the liberal economists—and unsurprisingly answers it with: "as far as the law gdictates it". I therefore think that the German translation is quite misleading. I thought of "The State's Scope of Action", but perhaps you can find better.
Krabbe was the teacher ...– The various components of this 3rd paragraph should be moved to where they belong in the chronoloy of the "Life". As already said, a biography goes from the cradle to the grave and that is where it stops. His marriage should also appear in the Life section in its chronological place.
Done
His full portrait, aligned left at present, should appear on the right-hand side of the text so that he looks inside (see MOS:PORTRAIT). In order to equilibrate the page, it would be nice (in my opinion) to find a third picture that could appear on the left side, perhaps showing one of the buildings of the University Leiden? Perhaps you have a better idea.
Done
The article should have a consistent citation style, in this case {{ Sfn}} in the text and the {{ Cite book}} etc. in the list of sources. Cited sources should be separated from those that are not. The cited ones go into a list of sources; the others into a "Further reading" section (see WP:Further reading). "language=en" (or "language=English") is assumed in the English Wikipedia. It should not be stated explicitly. Please remove. Otherwise please consistently use the international two-letter abbreviation for the languages, not the names. Change KRABBE to Krabbe, even if it is used so in the book. Treat it like a quotation (MOS:CONFORM). Regularise the spacing. Spaces should appear before all the pipe characters (|) except when preceded by the template name. At least that is the rule I apply. You seem to do the same but sometime you disregard it. I know it has no impact on the text as displayed, but the code looks better and reads more easily. It is the hallmark of well-done work (in my opinion). Greetings, Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
|image_size=
. In haste, sorry,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
21:19, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
The various components of this 3rd paragraph should be moved to where they belong in the chronoloy of the "Life". This proposal raises several difficulties. First of all, the sources don't tell us when Krabbe met and supervised his remarkable pupils. It was probably in Laiden instead of Groningen, but I don't know for sure because I lack a precise year to refer to. Secondly, if I were to include this kind of information in the paragraph above, I would overemphasise it: "in 19XX Krabbe supervised his pupil Roelof Kranenburg, in 19YY he met Ernst van Raalte, etc." It seems to me that it's better to gather this kind of information in the concluding paragraph of the section "Life", which is thus devoted to the legacy of Krabbe's teaching. Alternatively, we could eliminate the legacy of Krabbe's teaching altogether, but that would perhaps be a pity. Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 01:22, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
consistent citation style, in this case {{Sfn}}. I had originally decided to use template:harvnb because it is more flexible. It allows you to bundle citations (see footnote No 17) and it is also much easier to add quotes or additional comments into the footnote (see footnote No 35). But a fellow user didn't like that template and replaced it with sfn (e.g. [5]). That was fine with me, because I thought using both sfn and harvnb was acceptable. However, if I was wrong and we have to go back to harvnb that's fine, but I wanted to ask you first @ Johannes Schade, because the change of citation style here has to be done manually (since I'll have to add <ref></ref>) and before doing so I want to be sure: since you said
in this case {{Sfn}}, is it OK for you if we switch to template:Harvnb? Thanks, Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 02:21, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
|ps=
parameter (see e.g.
Antoine Hamilton). Best regards,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
20:16, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
The "Life" section once consisted of three paragraphs but is now one huge continuous piece of text. I believe it should be broken up into several paragraphs again (at least three?). I think this would make this section more readable.
One of these paragraphs could cover his marriage and children. This is a topic that would perhaps merit more detail. His wife's father, Johannes Tavenraat (1809–1881), was a painter of romantic landscapes. The Dutch and the German Wikipedias have articles about him. Krabbe's daughter, Maria Krabbe (1889–1965), became a speech therapist and feminist. She wrote a book "Beelddenken en woordblindheid", "word blindness" being an old term for dyslexia. The Dutch Wikipedia has an article about her.
... Ill ...– I suggest to also link to the Dutch article to offer the reader the choice of the language, thus: {{Ill|Johannes Theodorus Buys|de|Joannes Theodorus Buys|nl|Johannes Theodorus Buys}}. Ill can link to more than one language in the same invocation (see Template:Interlanguage link). Strangely enough, the Dutch article had in error been called "Joannes Theodorus Buys". I renamed it to "Johannes Theodorus Buys". Besides I would think that in English His second firstname should be Theodorus and not Theodoor. What do you think?
... of Gelderland and North Holland,– I suggest: "... first of Gelderland and then of North Holland," to make it clearer that these were two successive steps.
... that, if approved, would ...– I suggest: "... that, had it been approoved, would ..." to make it clearer, from the beginning that this endeavour failed.
... intercession, in 1894 Krabbe was appointed ...– I suggest: "... intercession, Krabbe was in 1894 appointed ..." placement after the auxiliary verb.
... Laiden ...– Leiden.
... an important constitutional lawyer ...– I suggest simply: "... a constitutional lawyer ..." (encyclopedic style).
Done Excellent suggestions, thank you.
Gitz (
talk) (
contribs)
22:44, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Soon before ...– I suggest: "Shortly before ...". Soon is used with future tens or "future in the past".
... a theory of law and state which was ...– I suggest: "... a theory of law and state that was ...".
Legal normativity ...– GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; I have some difficulties to understand what Legal normativity is. Do you thin a link to the article Normativity would be helpful?
Done. Thanks. As explained in
this edit summary, I replaced legal normativity with "binding force of law}}.
Gitz (
talk) (
contribs)
22:56, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
These two strands of jurisprudence ...– Perhaps better: "Both these strands of jurisprudence ...".
Gerardus Heymans, who was a personal friend of his ...– I they were friends, why does the article Gerardus Heymans not mention Krabbe? I suggest: "Gerardus Heymans, who was a friend of his while in Groningen ...".
... and helped him to translate his works ...– I suggest: "and helped him translate some of his publications int German." This almost surely concerns the "Die Lehre der Rechtssouveränität", but Kranenburg does not say. Krabbe, indeed states in his preface that a friend, who wants to stay anonymous, has translated the work. It is hard ro believe that a colleague from a different discipline found the time to translate a work of 250 pages, but so they say.
Done
This section consists of one huge continuous piece of text. I believe it should be broken up into paragraphs to make it more readable.
... Dutch law science ...– Is law a science? Perhaps Dutch jurisprudence?
... The fact that ...– I think it is Microsoft Word that always tells us we should avoid "the fact that". They are right.
... two well-established American academics ...– You probably mean "well-known' or "renowned".
... Krabbe's international acknowledgement ...– You probably mean "standing". Best regatds, Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:44, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Dear Gitz thanks for breaking the Life section up into paragraphs.
... {{Ill|Johannes Theodorus Buys|de|Johannes Theodorus Buys|nl|Johannes Theodorus Buys}} ...– The German link does not work. This is my fault: the article in the German Wikipedia is called "Johannes Theodoor Buys" (not Theodorus). So it should have been {{Ill|Johannes Theodorus Buys|de|Johannes Theodoor Buys|nl|Johannes Theodorus Buys}}.
... {{Ill|Johannes Theodorus Buys|de|Johannes Tavenraat|nl|Johannes Tavenraat}} (1809-1881), ...– The {{ Ill}}'s label should have been Johannes Tavenraat (not "Theodorus Buys"). The two years in the lifespan should have been separated by a n-dash (not a hyphen), as always in ranges in Wikipedia.
... {{Sfn|Kranenburg|1937a|pp=155–160}}.– The page range is excessive. Please do not make readers or reviewers read through 5 pages if you can point them directly to the right page (see the essay WP:CITATIONUNDERKILL). The passage supporting the statement is entirely on page 155. Your citation should therefore read: {{Sfn|Kranenburg|1937a|p=155}}. There are probably other citations with excessive ranges that should also be amended.
... {{Sfn|Eyffinger|2019|p=709}}.– Access to the source seems to be restricted. This needs to be made explicit in the source description, possible by the use of a parameter like
|
. Besr regards,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
20:47, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
... {{Sfn|Congleton|2011|pp=441–2}}.– Always give full page numbers in ranges, hence "441–442", see MOS:PAGERANGE. This problem might also occur elsewhere. Please fix it everywhere. You should also adopt and observe a fixed order for the parameters of {{ Cite book}} and the other Cite templates. I suggest to adopt the order given in Template:Cite book in the horizontal and vertical lists of the full parameter sets. Also,
|date=
should be used for the publications dates of books. The |year=
is meant for the year of a periodic in {{
Cite journal}}, as I understand it. In the documentation see "Date" under "Description", which discourages the use of the |year=
, also see "Title and year" under "Examples", where you will see that |date=
is used for the year of publication. Best regards,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
18:50, 1 March 2023 (UTC)... {{Sfn|Kiewiet|2018|p=67}}.– The DOI, given in the description of Kiewiet (2018), opens the website of the cited journal, which indeed shows the cited article, but in continous HTML text without facsimile of the printed text and the page numbers are therefore missing. Worldcat calls the Utrecht Journal for European and International Law (ISSN=2053-5341) an "ejournal", it probably does not get printed at all. Eventually most journals might go that way. After some searching around, I found that one can download a PDF from that website that shows the page numbers. It would be helpful for the reader or reviewer to alert them to the availability of this download. Perhaps in form of a comment after the Cite book, e.g. " – Download PDF to find the page" or similar. I use such comments quite often to explain some particularity of a source; see e.g. Charles Vavasour, 1st Baronet, of Killingthorpe. Perhaps you have a better idea how to help the reader. I have encountered similar problems with references for books or journal articles published without page numbers. It sometimes then becomes inpossible to find the relevant passage. I would appreciate your comment. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 16:56, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
... {{Sfn|Elzinga|1990|p=72–73}}– This source does not seem available of the web. How could you read it?
Besides Roelof Kranenburg, other constitutional scholars were also inspired by Krabbe. Elzinga mentions E. van Raalte, F.J.A. Huart and I. Samkalden. I would add to this list J.J. Boasson who wrote on theory of the legal consciousness (‘leer van het rechtsbewustzijn’) the well-wrought book J.J. Boasson, Het rechtsbewustzijn. Een onderzoek naar het leven der rechtsidee in het individueel bewustzijn (Martinus Nijhoff 1919)
Elzinga (1990), p. 72–73, cited in Kiewiet (2018), p. 67
<ref>{{Harvnb|Elzinga|1990|pp=72–73}}, cited in {{Harvnb|Kiewiet|2018|p=67}}</ref>
|ps=
serves to provide the extra text and to suppress the semicolon, but does not seem to be able to do both at the same time.{{Sfnm|1a1=Elzinga|1y=1990|1pp=72–73|1ps=none, cited in |2a1=Kiewiet|2y=2018|p=67}}
... .{{Sfn|Krabbe|1927|p=407}}– This source is listed under the heading "Writings" in the section "Essays and lectures" and only there. I feel this article should appear twice, once under his works and once in the list of sources. Its URL is given as: https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_gid001192701_01/_gid001192701_01_0061.php#257
I wonder where the #257 comes from as the article starts on page 407.
... .{{Sfn|Peletier|2013}}– This is an article of the Biografisch Woordenboek van Nederland. The argument of the
|first=
should be spaced "W. M." not "W.M.", see
MOS:INITIALS. Done
... [17][18][19][20]– What needs to be supported at the end of this introductory paragraph is where the summary of Krabbe's thought in 5 themes comes from. Unless this is found in more than one source, a single citation should suffice. - or did you invent these 5 points?
... .{{Sfn|Krabbe|1922|p=46ff}}– This citation refers to the source description under "Writings". But this source should also be listed under "Sources". Please remove the useless "mode/2up/" at the end of the URL here and elsewhere wherever it occurs.
... .{{Sfn|Stella|2016}}– his refers to all the 6 pages of Stella, This range is probably excessive.
Done
Headings should always be preceded by an empty line.
The translation ...– Expand to: "The English translation ...".
... and professor od political science ...– Expand to: "... and the professor of political science ...".
Done
The capialisation of the heading should probably be "Theory of sovereignty and state". I do not think there is a good reason to uppercase "State".
... <ref> ... </ref> ...– It looks to me as if this is not a citation that support some content in the text before it but some additional statement. I feel it should be brought up to the same level as the text around it in this pargraph. Otherwise, it could be an {{Tl:Efn}}. Efns open a second more technical or critical level of reading. Quotations must be supported by citations. I do not know what is supported by {{Sfn|Stella|2013|p=61}}; the source does not seem to be available on the web. In addition it is in Italian, which most readers can probably not understand. Is it essential or could it be replaced by another source?
Done
Done
Dear Gitz, we are getting very near now. You citation [50] is rather a comment or explanation. I would make it an Efn and cite Canihac with an Sfn inside it. The Citation [53] throws an error "Harv error: link from CITREFKrabbe1919 does not point to any citation". I think that means you need to add a Cite book for Krabbe (1919). I think this is all. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 17:29, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
I still think that your Note [51] should become an Efn, but you didn't mention Note [51] before - you mentioned Note [53], which is now Efn [b]. Would you like also Note [51] to become en Efn? To me Note [51] (
Schmitt 2005, p. 24. Schmitt is quoting from Krabbe 1919, p. 39.) looks purely bibliographical: it supports the statement in the text (
as Carl Schmitt noted in 1922, Krabbe did not subscribe to the neo-Kantian epistemological and methodological assumptions of Kelsen, and was rather engaged in a sociological investigation...) and clarifies that that the quotation made by Schmitt from Krabbe (
"[w]e no longer live under the authority of persons...") is taken from Krabbe 1919, p. 39.
If I use Harvnb, I get this:Canihac also mentions Walther Schücking, de:Hans Wehberg, de:Erich Kaufmann, Max Huber and de:Alfred Verdross as advocates of "peace-through-law movement". [1]
Canihac 2019, p. 721 also mentions Walther Schücking, de:Hans Wehberg, de:Erich Kaufmann, Max Huber and de:Alfred Verdross as advocates of "peace-through-law movement".
These ... ideas [were] typical of the interwar "peace-through-law movement". Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 16:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
the "peace-through-law movement" was also advocated by Walther Schücking, Hans Wehberg [de], Erich Kaufmann [de], Max Huber and Alfred Verdross [de]+ fn leading to
Canhihac 2019is not satisfactory because Canhihac's list is seriously incomplete. One should add at the very least Hans Kelsen and others, like William Howard Taft and the founders of the French Association de la paix par le droit, such as Frédéric Passy. Mentioning Alfred Verdross (who was a Nazi sympathiser) and omitting Kelsen and Passy doesn't make any sense. I could provide sources on the "peace-through-law movement" to complete Canhihac's list but unfortuntately they do not mention Krabbe, so we would be in the WP:SYNTH territory. However, what is now in the article is fully verifiable and informative:
These cosmopolitan and progressive ideas, typical of the interwar "peace-through-law movement"...+ Efn leading to
Canihac 2019, p. 721, who also mentions Walther Schücking, Hans Wehberg [de], Erich Kaufmann [de], Max Huber and Alfred Verdross [de] as advocates of "peace-through-law movement"(obviously Canihac also mentions Krabbe). Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 02:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
I have promoted. Thanks for your amazing collaboration and patience. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 10:04, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Johannes Schade ( talk · contribs) 10:23, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Good day
Gitz6666. I propose to review your GA nomination "Hugo Krabbe". Admittedly, I am only an apprentice-reviewer. I must also warn you that my English is 2nd language and that I am no subject-matter expert. I will propose corrections and suggest optional improvements. The corrections rely on the GA criteria (WP:GACR). Some are tentative. Please tell me whenever you disagree with a correction. I am probably wrong. You can ignore my suggestions. They have no effect on the article's promotion. Should I lack in respect, do not hesitate to complain (see WP:CIVIL).
I will start with the preliminaries and then go through the article's section, sometimes returning to previous sections when needed. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 10:23, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
|birth_date=
– I would add the lifespan in years as "(1857–1936)" (see WP:SDDATES) and omit the "public" (I see that the article
International law mentions the term "public international law" but "public lawyer" does not seem to be widely used).|
– I suggest (but am not very sure about it)|
– Please remove, it has no effectI believe you do not want the frame around the image.
|image=
– I would use the template "CSS image crop" to ged rid of the frame; e.g. | image = {{CSS image crop|Image=Portret van Hugo Krabbe, hoogleraar Rechtsgeleerdheid te Leiden Icones 323.tiff|bSize=450|cWidth=220|cHeight=250|oTop=75|oLeft=140|Location=center}}|discipline=
– I would believe the discipline is "law" or "international law" and not "public lawyer".
Johannes Schade (
talk)
18:02, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
|discipline=
– The lead calls his discipline "public international law" and links it to the article
International law. Which one is right? Whatever you choose, link it also in the infobox. Links in the lead, the body, and in each entry in the infobox are considered separate (MOS:REPEATLINK).|Institutions=
– Link "Leiden University" (MOS:REPEATLINK)|Notable ideas=
– Wikipedia has an article
Monism and dialism in international law link the word "monism" to it.The lead should probably also mention that Krabbe was a professor at the universities of Groningen and Leiden.
... (3 February 1857 – 4 February 1936) ...– I know many or most biographies do it so, but please consider also the option to give the years only, i.e. (1857–1936) in the lead and then give the full dates in the body. Besides, as I understand it, you cannot give the dates only in the lead, as you do. With very few exceptions, everything in the lead should summarise more detailed information in the body.
... Hans Kelsen ...– The juxtaposition of the name Hans Kelsen at the end of the 2nd sentence and the beginning of the 3rd sentence is awkward. I would think that most readers never heard before of either Krabbe or Kelsen. I feel that Kelsen should be introduced further down and the immediate repetition of the name should be avoided, but there are obviously also other solutions.
... identified state and law ...– I would guess you mean "identified the state with its laws" or in other words "identified the state and its laws with each other". I wonder whether there is not a better verb for "identify".
We will probably have to return to the Lead after a first traverse of the text. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
Born ... University– The first sentence brings us from his birth to university. in one long sentence. I would break that sentence at least into two. Beyond the length of the sentence, the reason to break it is that in the 2nd sentence to jump back to the time when he already worked while still in highschool. A biography should as far as possible present events in chronological order.
... his diploma ...– "his diploma" sounds very vague. Do you mean his matric?
While in collage ...– I believe this is based on Kranenburg (1937b) "terwijl hij reeds als ambtenaar in de practijk der administratie werkzaam was, aan deze Universiteit gepromoveerd", meening that he was employed by the Dutch state (in fact the courts) at a time near the end of his studies before his thesis. The work "college" in English can mean either a highschool or a college as part of a university (see College). So please reformulate this sentence to make this clear that he was studying at the university at the time.
On 2 July 1883 he obtained his doctorate ...– Peletier tells us that his Ph. D. advisor was Johannes Theodorus Buys . It would be nice to mention him as the Dutch (quite short) and the German (with some more detail) Wikipedias have articles on him.
Krabbe was subsequently ...– The parentheses in this sentence serve purposes that are too disparate. Please try to do without them or at least use them less. You are probably right to give these three Dutch administrative ranks without translation. It seems all three mentioned rank names are now obsolete.
In 1888, he became ...– Please reformulate to make it clear that his move from Justice to the Department of Home Affairs is more important than the change in the name of his rank. I suspect that the names commies-chef and hoofdcommies mean the same rank, only that Home-Affairs styled it more Dutch and Justice more French. These are low ranks. I would guess his move to Home Affairs was a clever career move with some help from his liberal friends, among which, Professor Buys.
Under the direction of the minister ...– I feel this should be treated with a bit more detail. The reader must understand that the Dutch democracy at that time was quite plutocratic and elitist, which was not an exeption in Europe at the time. Give a date for when this reform of the electoral system was proposed and finally rejected.
Partly through Tak van Poortvliet's ...– I suggest to start a new paragraph with the beginning of this sentence as we enter now the subject's university career. With thanks and greetings, Johannes Schade ( talk) 17:20, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
|
– Please remove, it has no effect|notable works ...=
– Despite WP:NOBR, the use of the break tag is often difficult to avoid entirely. In Wikipedia always use <br />, not <br> or <br/>. However, for the infobox parameter "no_works" use a list, e.g. .With thanks Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
... and Maria Adriana Machteld Scholten.– I suggest you insert "his wife" before her name as you cite (rightly so) his mother's maiden name in this place.
... Stedelijk Gymnasium in Leiden– Wikipedia has an article about the school Stedelijk Gymnasium Leiden. I suggest you link to this rather than to Gymnasium (school).
... De werkkring van den staat ...– The word werkkring "work ring" is difficult to translate. I think your translation comes from the German version of the article, which uses office (besides, in the plural: "Büros"). Krabbe's speech is available at Google Books at https://www.google.com/books?id=uQpWAAAAcAAJ. I had a look and I find that Krabbe's speech focuses on the question of how far the state should intervene and how far it should refrein from action— the "laissez-faire" of the liberal economists—and unsurprisingly answers it with: "as far as the law gdictates it". I therefore think that the German translation is quite misleading. I thought of "The State's Scope of Action", but perhaps you can find better.
Krabbe was the teacher ...– The various components of this 3rd paragraph should be moved to where they belong in the chronoloy of the "Life". As already said, a biography goes from the cradle to the grave and that is where it stops. His marriage should also appear in the Life section in its chronological place.
Done
His full portrait, aligned left at present, should appear on the right-hand side of the text so that he looks inside (see MOS:PORTRAIT). In order to equilibrate the page, it would be nice (in my opinion) to find a third picture that could appear on the left side, perhaps showing one of the buildings of the University Leiden? Perhaps you have a better idea.
Done
The article should have a consistent citation style, in this case {{ Sfn}} in the text and the {{ Cite book}} etc. in the list of sources. Cited sources should be separated from those that are not. The cited ones go into a list of sources; the others into a "Further reading" section (see WP:Further reading). "language=en" (or "language=English") is assumed in the English Wikipedia. It should not be stated explicitly. Please remove. Otherwise please consistently use the international two-letter abbreviation for the languages, not the names. Change KRABBE to Krabbe, even if it is used so in the book. Treat it like a quotation (MOS:CONFORM). Regularise the spacing. Spaces should appear before all the pipe characters (|) except when preceded by the template name. At least that is the rule I apply. You seem to do the same but sometime you disregard it. I know it has no impact on the text as displayed, but the code looks better and reads more easily. It is the hallmark of well-done work (in my opinion). Greetings, Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
|image_size=
. In haste, sorry,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
21:19, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
The various components of this 3rd paragraph should be moved to where they belong in the chronoloy of the "Life". This proposal raises several difficulties. First of all, the sources don't tell us when Krabbe met and supervised his remarkable pupils. It was probably in Laiden instead of Groningen, but I don't know for sure because I lack a precise year to refer to. Secondly, if I were to include this kind of information in the paragraph above, I would overemphasise it: "in 19XX Krabbe supervised his pupil Roelof Kranenburg, in 19YY he met Ernst van Raalte, etc." It seems to me that it's better to gather this kind of information in the concluding paragraph of the section "Life", which is thus devoted to the legacy of Krabbe's teaching. Alternatively, we could eliminate the legacy of Krabbe's teaching altogether, but that would perhaps be a pity. Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 01:22, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
consistent citation style, in this case {{Sfn}}. I had originally decided to use template:harvnb because it is more flexible. It allows you to bundle citations (see footnote No 17) and it is also much easier to add quotes or additional comments into the footnote (see footnote No 35). But a fellow user didn't like that template and replaced it with sfn (e.g. [5]). That was fine with me, because I thought using both sfn and harvnb was acceptable. However, if I was wrong and we have to go back to harvnb that's fine, but I wanted to ask you first @ Johannes Schade, because the change of citation style here has to be done manually (since I'll have to add <ref></ref>) and before doing so I want to be sure: since you said
in this case {{Sfn}}, is it OK for you if we switch to template:Harvnb? Thanks, Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 02:21, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
|ps=
parameter (see e.g.
Antoine Hamilton). Best regards,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
20:16, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
The "Life" section once consisted of three paragraphs but is now one huge continuous piece of text. I believe it should be broken up into several paragraphs again (at least three?). I think this would make this section more readable.
One of these paragraphs could cover his marriage and children. This is a topic that would perhaps merit more detail. His wife's father, Johannes Tavenraat (1809–1881), was a painter of romantic landscapes. The Dutch and the German Wikipedias have articles about him. Krabbe's daughter, Maria Krabbe (1889–1965), became a speech therapist and feminist. She wrote a book "Beelddenken en woordblindheid", "word blindness" being an old term for dyslexia. The Dutch Wikipedia has an article about her.
... Ill ...– I suggest to also link to the Dutch article to offer the reader the choice of the language, thus: {{Ill|Johannes Theodorus Buys|de|Joannes Theodorus Buys|nl|Johannes Theodorus Buys}}. Ill can link to more than one language in the same invocation (see Template:Interlanguage link). Strangely enough, the Dutch article had in error been called "Joannes Theodorus Buys". I renamed it to "Johannes Theodorus Buys". Besides I would think that in English His second firstname should be Theodorus and not Theodoor. What do you think?
... of Gelderland and North Holland,– I suggest: "... first of Gelderland and then of North Holland," to make it clearer that these were two successive steps.
... that, if approved, would ...– I suggest: "... that, had it been approoved, would ..." to make it clearer, from the beginning that this endeavour failed.
... intercession, in 1894 Krabbe was appointed ...– I suggest: "... intercession, Krabbe was in 1894 appointed ..." placement after the auxiliary verb.
... Laiden ...– Leiden.
... an important constitutional lawyer ...– I suggest simply: "... a constitutional lawyer ..." (encyclopedic style).
Done Excellent suggestions, thank you.
Gitz (
talk) (
contribs)
22:44, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Soon before ...– I suggest: "Shortly before ...". Soon is used with future tens or "future in the past".
... a theory of law and state which was ...– I suggest: "... a theory of law and state that was ...".
Legal normativity ...– GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; I have some difficulties to understand what Legal normativity is. Do you thin a link to the article Normativity would be helpful?
Done. Thanks. As explained in
this edit summary, I replaced legal normativity with "binding force of law}}.
Gitz (
talk) (
contribs)
22:56, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
These two strands of jurisprudence ...– Perhaps better: "Both these strands of jurisprudence ...".
Gerardus Heymans, who was a personal friend of his ...– I they were friends, why does the article Gerardus Heymans not mention Krabbe? I suggest: "Gerardus Heymans, who was a friend of his while in Groningen ...".
... and helped him to translate his works ...– I suggest: "and helped him translate some of his publications int German." This almost surely concerns the "Die Lehre der Rechtssouveränität", but Kranenburg does not say. Krabbe, indeed states in his preface that a friend, who wants to stay anonymous, has translated the work. It is hard ro believe that a colleague from a different discipline found the time to translate a work of 250 pages, but so they say.
Done
This section consists of one huge continuous piece of text. I believe it should be broken up into paragraphs to make it more readable.
... Dutch law science ...– Is law a science? Perhaps Dutch jurisprudence?
... The fact that ...– I think it is Microsoft Word that always tells us we should avoid "the fact that". They are right.
... two well-established American academics ...– You probably mean "well-known' or "renowned".
... Krabbe's international acknowledgement ...– You probably mean "standing". Best regatds, Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:44, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Dear Gitz thanks for breaking the Life section up into paragraphs.
... {{Ill|Johannes Theodorus Buys|de|Johannes Theodorus Buys|nl|Johannes Theodorus Buys}} ...– The German link does not work. This is my fault: the article in the German Wikipedia is called "Johannes Theodoor Buys" (not Theodorus). So it should have been {{Ill|Johannes Theodorus Buys|de|Johannes Theodoor Buys|nl|Johannes Theodorus Buys}}.
... {{Ill|Johannes Theodorus Buys|de|Johannes Tavenraat|nl|Johannes Tavenraat}} (1809-1881), ...– The {{ Ill}}'s label should have been Johannes Tavenraat (not "Theodorus Buys"). The two years in the lifespan should have been separated by a n-dash (not a hyphen), as always in ranges in Wikipedia.
... {{Sfn|Kranenburg|1937a|pp=155–160}}.– The page range is excessive. Please do not make readers or reviewers read through 5 pages if you can point them directly to the right page (see the essay WP:CITATIONUNDERKILL). The passage supporting the statement is entirely on page 155. Your citation should therefore read: {{Sfn|Kranenburg|1937a|p=155}}. There are probably other citations with excessive ranges that should also be amended.
... {{Sfn|Eyffinger|2019|p=709}}.– Access to the source seems to be restricted. This needs to be made explicit in the source description, possible by the use of a parameter like
|
. Besr regards,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
20:47, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
... {{Sfn|Congleton|2011|pp=441–2}}.– Always give full page numbers in ranges, hence "441–442", see MOS:PAGERANGE. This problem might also occur elsewhere. Please fix it everywhere. You should also adopt and observe a fixed order for the parameters of {{ Cite book}} and the other Cite templates. I suggest to adopt the order given in Template:Cite book in the horizontal and vertical lists of the full parameter sets. Also,
|date=
should be used for the publications dates of books. The |year=
is meant for the year of a periodic in {{
Cite journal}}, as I understand it. In the documentation see "Date" under "Description", which discourages the use of the |year=
, also see "Title and year" under "Examples", where you will see that |date=
is used for the year of publication. Best regards,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
18:50, 1 March 2023 (UTC)... {{Sfn|Kiewiet|2018|p=67}}.– The DOI, given in the description of Kiewiet (2018), opens the website of the cited journal, which indeed shows the cited article, but in continous HTML text without facsimile of the printed text and the page numbers are therefore missing. Worldcat calls the Utrecht Journal for European and International Law (ISSN=2053-5341) an "ejournal", it probably does not get printed at all. Eventually most journals might go that way. After some searching around, I found that one can download a PDF from that website that shows the page numbers. It would be helpful for the reader or reviewer to alert them to the availability of this download. Perhaps in form of a comment after the Cite book, e.g. " – Download PDF to find the page" or similar. I use such comments quite often to explain some particularity of a source; see e.g. Charles Vavasour, 1st Baronet, of Killingthorpe. Perhaps you have a better idea how to help the reader. I have encountered similar problems with references for books or journal articles published without page numbers. It sometimes then becomes inpossible to find the relevant passage. I would appreciate your comment. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 16:56, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
... {{Sfn|Elzinga|1990|p=72–73}}– This source does not seem available of the web. How could you read it?
Besides Roelof Kranenburg, other constitutional scholars were also inspired by Krabbe. Elzinga mentions E. van Raalte, F.J.A. Huart and I. Samkalden. I would add to this list J.J. Boasson who wrote on theory of the legal consciousness (‘leer van het rechtsbewustzijn’) the well-wrought book J.J. Boasson, Het rechtsbewustzijn. Een onderzoek naar het leven der rechtsidee in het individueel bewustzijn (Martinus Nijhoff 1919)
Elzinga (1990), p. 72–73, cited in Kiewiet (2018), p. 67
<ref>{{Harvnb|Elzinga|1990|pp=72–73}}, cited in {{Harvnb|Kiewiet|2018|p=67}}</ref>
|ps=
serves to provide the extra text and to suppress the semicolon, but does not seem to be able to do both at the same time.{{Sfnm|1a1=Elzinga|1y=1990|1pp=72–73|1ps=none, cited in |2a1=Kiewiet|2y=2018|p=67}}
... .{{Sfn|Krabbe|1927|p=407}}– This source is listed under the heading "Writings" in the section "Essays and lectures" and only there. I feel this article should appear twice, once under his works and once in the list of sources. Its URL is given as: https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_gid001192701_01/_gid001192701_01_0061.php#257
I wonder where the #257 comes from as the article starts on page 407.
... .{{Sfn|Peletier|2013}}– This is an article of the Biografisch Woordenboek van Nederland. The argument of the
|first=
should be spaced "W. M." not "W.M.", see
MOS:INITIALS. Done
... [17][18][19][20]– What needs to be supported at the end of this introductory paragraph is where the summary of Krabbe's thought in 5 themes comes from. Unless this is found in more than one source, a single citation should suffice. - or did you invent these 5 points?
... .{{Sfn|Krabbe|1922|p=46ff}}– This citation refers to the source description under "Writings". But this source should also be listed under "Sources". Please remove the useless "mode/2up/" at the end of the URL here and elsewhere wherever it occurs.
... .{{Sfn|Stella|2016}}– his refers to all the 6 pages of Stella, This range is probably excessive.
Done
Headings should always be preceded by an empty line.
The translation ...– Expand to: "The English translation ...".
... and professor od political science ...– Expand to: "... and the professor of political science ...".
Done
The capialisation of the heading should probably be "Theory of sovereignty and state". I do not think there is a good reason to uppercase "State".
... <ref> ... </ref> ...– It looks to me as if this is not a citation that support some content in the text before it but some additional statement. I feel it should be brought up to the same level as the text around it in this pargraph. Otherwise, it could be an {{Tl:Efn}}. Efns open a second more technical or critical level of reading. Quotations must be supported by citations. I do not know what is supported by {{Sfn|Stella|2013|p=61}}; the source does not seem to be available on the web. In addition it is in Italian, which most readers can probably not understand. Is it essential or could it be replaced by another source?
Done
Done
Dear Gitz, we are getting very near now. You citation [50] is rather a comment or explanation. I would make it an Efn and cite Canihac with an Sfn inside it. The Citation [53] throws an error "Harv error: link from CITREFKrabbe1919 does not point to any citation". I think that means you need to add a Cite book for Krabbe (1919). I think this is all. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 17:29, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
I still think that your Note [51] should become an Efn, but you didn't mention Note [51] before - you mentioned Note [53], which is now Efn [b]. Would you like also Note [51] to become en Efn? To me Note [51] (
Schmitt 2005, p. 24. Schmitt is quoting from Krabbe 1919, p. 39.) looks purely bibliographical: it supports the statement in the text (
as Carl Schmitt noted in 1922, Krabbe did not subscribe to the neo-Kantian epistemological and methodological assumptions of Kelsen, and was rather engaged in a sociological investigation...) and clarifies that that the quotation made by Schmitt from Krabbe (
"[w]e no longer live under the authority of persons...") is taken from Krabbe 1919, p. 39.
If I use Harvnb, I get this:Canihac also mentions Walther Schücking, de:Hans Wehberg, de:Erich Kaufmann, Max Huber and de:Alfred Verdross as advocates of "peace-through-law movement". [1]
Canihac 2019, p. 721 also mentions Walther Schücking, de:Hans Wehberg, de:Erich Kaufmann, Max Huber and de:Alfred Verdross as advocates of "peace-through-law movement".
These ... ideas [were] typical of the interwar "peace-through-law movement". Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 16:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
the "peace-through-law movement" was also advocated by Walther Schücking, Hans Wehberg [de], Erich Kaufmann [de], Max Huber and Alfred Verdross [de]+ fn leading to
Canhihac 2019is not satisfactory because Canhihac's list is seriously incomplete. One should add at the very least Hans Kelsen and others, like William Howard Taft and the founders of the French Association de la paix par le droit, such as Frédéric Passy. Mentioning Alfred Verdross (who was a Nazi sympathiser) and omitting Kelsen and Passy doesn't make any sense. I could provide sources on the "peace-through-law movement" to complete Canhihac's list but unfortuntately they do not mention Krabbe, so we would be in the WP:SYNTH territory. However, what is now in the article is fully verifiable and informative:
These cosmopolitan and progressive ideas, typical of the interwar "peace-through-law movement"...+ Efn leading to
Canihac 2019, p. 721, who also mentions Walther Schücking, Hans Wehberg [de], Erich Kaufmann [de], Max Huber and Alfred Verdross [de] as advocates of "peace-through-law movement"(obviously Canihac also mentions Krabbe). Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 02:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
I have promoted. Thanks for your amazing collaboration and patience. Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 10:04, 18 March 2023 (UTC)