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The same old question. Was Hong Taiji's personal name really Abahai? Nanshu 22:57, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
As suggested by Mgmei, I read "The emperor 'Abahai': Analysis of a Historical Mistake," by Giovanni Stary (Central Asiatic Journal, 28, Nos. 3-4 (1984), pp. 296-9). Neither Manchu, Chinese nor Korean sources refer him as Abahai. So Giovanni Stary investigated when and why the Western mistake had happened. He found Russian documents call him Abachaj in the middle 19th century. He supposed that Abahai was the misinterpretation of "abkai sure," the first era name of Hong Taiji. He guessed that Abahai came from the Chinese syllabic pronunciation of abkai (abka "sky" + GEN.) but I think it's likely that they misread abkai in Manchu (as I often did). -- Nanshu 01:40, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Wonderful. You're discrediting a learned source with your own hunch????
What is the Manchu romanisation of Hong Taiji (like Nurhaci)? — Instantnood 01:49, Jan 31 2005 (UTC)
i've never heard of him referred to as hong taiji before reading this article. i'd always thought he was huang taiji. is hong taiji the manchu pronunciation? if so is there a source for this opinion?-- Sumple 04:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Sumple, you are right. Hong Taiji in Manchu, or Хунтайж in Mongolian is a title amongst the Sino-Manchu-Mongol aristocracy. It is a corruption of the chinese title Huangtaiji. 简明满汉词典 has a long list of emperors' titles at the end of the book. Funny enough, the Mongols refer Prince Harry as Британийн хунтайж Гарри, Hong Taiji Harry of Britain. The title can be translated into Englsih as "Crown Prince". -- GoogleMonkey 20:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
so it is "Hong Taiji"? well all we need now is sb to (or to tell me how to) redirect Huang Taiji and Huangtaiji here. -- 1698 08:06, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
+++++++++++++++++++++++ because the chinese have their unique language and their letters must have such a transition of hung to huang maybe. Today too they do it still. they would notice all the foreign names weird. But Hung taiji is prince. mongolian title for kingskids. In old mongolian script are U and O with same letter described. The manju script is a copy of mongolscript. That's the reason ,why are there Hong taiji or Hung taiji. so in manju script here in wiki in manju says too Hung Taiji. that must be the origin. not Huang taiji. Huang is chinese transition. Prince Harry is Hung taiji too. Because he is hung taiji. he comes from kingsfamily and he can be King in the Future. That's what hung taji these words say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.120.91 ( talk) 23:33, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
its weird theres just on wife at the bottom of the whole article. maybe, a list of consorts somewhere above the succession box? -- 1698 07:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
These Chinese articles are almost uniformly unreadable. There are no sections. There is no introduction. There are many different names in different scripts, stated right at the start of the article that buries the reader under a load of minutae. This makes it completely inaccessible to almost 99% of the readers. I will make a few changes.-- Filll 18:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I have tried to make this a bit clearer and reorganize it. I hope I did not introduce any errors. Please check my edits.-- Filll 18:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
If anyone can make sense of this information about Hung Taiji's marriages and children, all the names are in Wades-Giles, or at least a form of it =( feel free and give a shot. Abstrakt 03:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
http://www.4dw.net/royalark/China/manchu4.htm
There seems to be two different versions of Hong Taiji's Manchurian name:
The second words for both these files (which both appear on the page) seem to match, but there is a definite difference with the first.
Does anyone know which one (if either) is correct?
Mjb1981 ( talk) 20:28, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
the first one is Hung taiji for mgl-ian , the second can be only by manchu people interpreted. as a mgl i cant say it's hung or hong, because it'll be grammatically not right. For me it'll be Gung like Duke in english, something isn't right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.120.91 ( talk) 23:52, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Why does Empress Xiaolie and Empress Xiao-Lie redirect here none of his wives bear that name? I am going to redirect the links to the Ming Empress of that name.-- Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy ( talk) 00:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Hong Taiji had a very negative personal opinion of Tibetan buddhism and its lamas, although he used them for political purposes. The manchus also did not convert to Buddhism.
http://books.google.com/books?id=hi2THl2FUZ4C&pg=PA64#v=onepage&q&f=false
Hong Taiji dissasociated the Manchu from the Jurchen identity.
http://books.google.com/books?id=WChrSv86uIsC&pg=PA187#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=WChrSv86uIsC&pg=PA190#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan ( talk) 04:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Did he speak, read and write Han Chinese? 86.184.52.111 ( talk) 09:31, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 10:08, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
To add to this article: the date Hong Taiji conquered Ligdan Khan (and put an end to the Northern Yuan Dynasty). 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 06:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
The same old question. Was Hong Taiji's personal name really Abahai? Nanshu 22:57, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
As suggested by Mgmei, I read "The emperor 'Abahai': Analysis of a Historical Mistake," by Giovanni Stary (Central Asiatic Journal, 28, Nos. 3-4 (1984), pp. 296-9). Neither Manchu, Chinese nor Korean sources refer him as Abahai. So Giovanni Stary investigated when and why the Western mistake had happened. He found Russian documents call him Abachaj in the middle 19th century. He supposed that Abahai was the misinterpretation of "abkai sure," the first era name of Hong Taiji. He guessed that Abahai came from the Chinese syllabic pronunciation of abkai (abka "sky" + GEN.) but I think it's likely that they misread abkai in Manchu (as I often did). -- Nanshu 01:40, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Wonderful. You're discrediting a learned source with your own hunch????
What is the Manchu romanisation of Hong Taiji (like Nurhaci)? — Instantnood 01:49, Jan 31 2005 (UTC)
i've never heard of him referred to as hong taiji before reading this article. i'd always thought he was huang taiji. is hong taiji the manchu pronunciation? if so is there a source for this opinion?-- Sumple 04:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Sumple, you are right. Hong Taiji in Manchu, or Хунтайж in Mongolian is a title amongst the Sino-Manchu-Mongol aristocracy. It is a corruption of the chinese title Huangtaiji. 简明满汉词典 has a long list of emperors' titles at the end of the book. Funny enough, the Mongols refer Prince Harry as Британийн хунтайж Гарри, Hong Taiji Harry of Britain. The title can be translated into Englsih as "Crown Prince". -- GoogleMonkey 20:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
so it is "Hong Taiji"? well all we need now is sb to (or to tell me how to) redirect Huang Taiji and Huangtaiji here. -- 1698 08:06, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
+++++++++++++++++++++++ because the chinese have their unique language and their letters must have such a transition of hung to huang maybe. Today too they do it still. they would notice all the foreign names weird. But Hung taiji is prince. mongolian title for kingskids. In old mongolian script are U and O with same letter described. The manju script is a copy of mongolscript. That's the reason ,why are there Hong taiji or Hung taiji. so in manju script here in wiki in manju says too Hung Taiji. that must be the origin. not Huang taiji. Huang is chinese transition. Prince Harry is Hung taiji too. Because he is hung taiji. he comes from kingsfamily and he can be King in the Future. That's what hung taji these words say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.120.91 ( talk) 23:33, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
its weird theres just on wife at the bottom of the whole article. maybe, a list of consorts somewhere above the succession box? -- 1698 07:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
These Chinese articles are almost uniformly unreadable. There are no sections. There is no introduction. There are many different names in different scripts, stated right at the start of the article that buries the reader under a load of minutae. This makes it completely inaccessible to almost 99% of the readers. I will make a few changes.-- Filll 18:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I have tried to make this a bit clearer and reorganize it. I hope I did not introduce any errors. Please check my edits.-- Filll 18:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
If anyone can make sense of this information about Hung Taiji's marriages and children, all the names are in Wades-Giles, or at least a form of it =( feel free and give a shot. Abstrakt 03:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
http://www.4dw.net/royalark/China/manchu4.htm
There seems to be two different versions of Hong Taiji's Manchurian name:
The second words for both these files (which both appear on the page) seem to match, but there is a definite difference with the first.
Does anyone know which one (if either) is correct?
Mjb1981 ( talk) 20:28, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
the first one is Hung taiji for mgl-ian , the second can be only by manchu people interpreted. as a mgl i cant say it's hung or hong, because it'll be grammatically not right. For me it'll be Gung like Duke in english, something isn't right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.120.91 ( talk) 23:52, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Why does Empress Xiaolie and Empress Xiao-Lie redirect here none of his wives bear that name? I am going to redirect the links to the Ming Empress of that name.-- Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy ( talk) 00:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Hong Taiji had a very negative personal opinion of Tibetan buddhism and its lamas, although he used them for political purposes. The manchus also did not convert to Buddhism.
http://books.google.com/books?id=hi2THl2FUZ4C&pg=PA64#v=onepage&q&f=false
Hong Taiji dissasociated the Manchu from the Jurchen identity.
http://books.google.com/books?id=WChrSv86uIsC&pg=PA187#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=WChrSv86uIsC&pg=PA190#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan ( talk) 04:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Did he speak, read and write Han Chinese? 86.184.52.111 ( talk) 09:31, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 10:08, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
To add to this article: the date Hong Taiji conquered Ligdan Khan (and put an end to the Northern Yuan Dynasty). 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 06:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)