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Is there any reason for not redirecting Motherland and Fatherland to Homeland? Brallan 14:32, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
the merger is necessary simply because Motherland and Fatherland had no content other than what is here, plus a completely unreferenced list of terms.
Of course it would be possible to turn Motherland and Fatherland into standalone articles, but for that we would need referenced content that goes beyond a short paragraph. -- dab (𒁳) 11:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
«The term "Motherland" is very often applied to Africa due to it being the origin of humanity and civilization», is declared in this article. Well, mmmh, yes, there seems to be full agreement on an Oldowan origin of mankind (hence civilization). But I really never heard or read anybody applying the term " Motherland" to Olduvai Gorge or the like in Africa. Would someone provide with references for such a strong expresion "very often applied"?
Fatherland needs to be merged into this article. They are the same topic. I read some comments about fatherland having a different connotation. This is mostly untrue. The word fatherland does tend to be used in different contexts than homeland but that does not make them different topics, just different words for the same topic. Regardless the fatherland article is currently mostly a lookup of translations into different languages.
-- 192.88.165.35 ( talk) 19:19, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Within the 'Fatherland' heading is the bullet point: -*Scots heauinlie (besides the more common faitherland)*
I'm fairly sure that this is nonsensical. The Dictionary of the Scots language doesn't have a definition for 'heauinlie', but it arises in the supporting quotations for a number of other words from which it is clear that it is an antique spelling of 'heavenly'. I suspect the confusion has arisen from the definition for ' Patrie-(One's) fatherland or native country' which includes a quoted line from a prayer 'In my patrie of ȝour heauinlie kingdom; '
I am not and have no ambition to be an editor, and I'm not even sure if I'll get this posted successfully, but hopefully next time and editor wanders by they could look at this apparent misapprehension? Many thanks 164.134.0.180 ( talk) 10:11, 4 August 2017 (UTC) [1]
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Homeland, motherland, and fatherland are all synonyms. The lead in this article even says so. The key here is WP:NAD. We do not create articles simply to provide a definition of each word. Unless there is something especially important about the word itself that merits a whole article separate from topic the word describes, creating a separate article for each word is a violation of WP:NAD. As it stands, the Fatherland article is nothing but a listing of translations of the word into different languages. ???
Let's merge and clean up.
-- MC 141.131.2.3 ( talk) 23:35, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
I agree. Both articles are already short enough as is and Homeland already features a Fatherland section which is mostly a repeat of the translations already mentioned here. I say we scrap this one altogether and just copy it wholesale into the aforementioned Homeland section. Fritz1776 ( talk) 17:15, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
I would support this merge. I think Homeland is an obvious search term and the concepts of Fatherland and Motherland could be described as being part of the wider idea of Homeland. Dunarc ( talk) 17:54, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Most dictionaries state that all three words are synonymous with each other and every time someone searches "motherland" they get redirected to "homeland." I believe we should just do away with this article and and contribute it to the homeland article. -- Scarslayer01 ( talk) 01:28, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Discussion is very much closed. See for yourself. I can indeed see that the 2011-13 proposal, was a clear no, but I also note that this is 2018 proposal is a clear yes. Perhaps times and views have changed? Given that the discussion is for the merge, perhaps you could close it with a merge recommendation or replace the merge template and add your views here? Klbrain ( talk) 16:20, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
As a separate concern, the current structure/content of this article has some problems. A lot of the article is devoted to discussing which cultures use the "mother" concept and which use the "father" concept. While this is an interesting thing to discuss, it hardly deserves the space that is currently allotted. Even the "Various connotations" section largely talks about how the term is used.
IMHO the existing content should be simplified and meaningful content added. The concept of a homeland actually is an important topic. See the following as examples of scholarly discussions of homelands:
-- MC 141.131.2.3 ( talk) 23:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( non-admin closure) ~SS49~ {talk} 12:37, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
– Like the recently moved The Americans, the award-winning and historically significant drama TV series Homeland is the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC here, and so this use, though the root term of many other uses including Homeland security, needs to be disambiguated since the page view stats show there is relatively very little interest in this article (for better or for worse), and the vast, vast majority of those searching with "homeland" are searching for the TV series, and are not served well by being taken to this article. Four to five THOUSAND users view the TV series page daily; while the others get 200 or fewer each, including the ones when a WP search for the series incorrectly takes the user to this page. This is not a close at all by any measure. If you support this move in general but prefer a different disambiguator (or a different title altogether), please support and propose the alternative disambiguator in your comment. A hatnote to Homeland (disambiguation) will be more than adequate to manage the few that end up at this page mistakenly. В²C ☎ 17:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
in no case does "what comes first to mind" to any particular person have much bearing, either positive or negative, on which topic, if any, actually is the primary topic.Just because the TV series does not come to mind first to you when you hear "homeland", I'm sure it does to the thousands of users who seek and read the TV series article every single day. -- В²C ☎ 21:15, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Homeland article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
![]() | Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | The contents of the Fatherland page were merged into Homeland on 24 August 2019. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
Is there any reason for not redirecting Motherland and Fatherland to Homeland? Brallan 14:32, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
the merger is necessary simply because Motherland and Fatherland had no content other than what is here, plus a completely unreferenced list of terms.
Of course it would be possible to turn Motherland and Fatherland into standalone articles, but for that we would need referenced content that goes beyond a short paragraph. -- dab (𒁳) 11:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
«The term "Motherland" is very often applied to Africa due to it being the origin of humanity and civilization», is declared in this article. Well, mmmh, yes, there seems to be full agreement on an Oldowan origin of mankind (hence civilization). But I really never heard or read anybody applying the term " Motherland" to Olduvai Gorge or the like in Africa. Would someone provide with references for such a strong expresion "very often applied"?
Fatherland needs to be merged into this article. They are the same topic. I read some comments about fatherland having a different connotation. This is mostly untrue. The word fatherland does tend to be used in different contexts than homeland but that does not make them different topics, just different words for the same topic. Regardless the fatherland article is currently mostly a lookup of translations into different languages.
-- 192.88.165.35 ( talk) 19:19, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Within the 'Fatherland' heading is the bullet point: -*Scots heauinlie (besides the more common faitherland)*
I'm fairly sure that this is nonsensical. The Dictionary of the Scots language doesn't have a definition for 'heauinlie', but it arises in the supporting quotations for a number of other words from which it is clear that it is an antique spelling of 'heavenly'. I suspect the confusion has arisen from the definition for ' Patrie-(One's) fatherland or native country' which includes a quoted line from a prayer 'In my patrie of ȝour heauinlie kingdom; '
I am not and have no ambition to be an editor, and I'm not even sure if I'll get this posted successfully, but hopefully next time and editor wanders by they could look at this apparent misapprehension? Many thanks 164.134.0.180 ( talk) 10:11, 4 August 2017 (UTC) [1]
References
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Homeland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:43, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
Homeland, motherland, and fatherland are all synonyms. The lead in this article even says so. The key here is WP:NAD. We do not create articles simply to provide a definition of each word. Unless there is something especially important about the word itself that merits a whole article separate from topic the word describes, creating a separate article for each word is a violation of WP:NAD. As it stands, the Fatherland article is nothing but a listing of translations of the word into different languages. ???
Let's merge and clean up.
-- MC 141.131.2.3 ( talk) 23:35, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
I agree. Both articles are already short enough as is and Homeland already features a Fatherland section which is mostly a repeat of the translations already mentioned here. I say we scrap this one altogether and just copy it wholesale into the aforementioned Homeland section. Fritz1776 ( talk) 17:15, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
I would support this merge. I think Homeland is an obvious search term and the concepts of Fatherland and Motherland could be described as being part of the wider idea of Homeland. Dunarc ( talk) 17:54, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Most dictionaries state that all three words are synonymous with each other and every time someone searches "motherland" they get redirected to "homeland." I believe we should just do away with this article and and contribute it to the homeland article. -- Scarslayer01 ( talk) 01:28, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Discussion is very much closed. See for yourself. I can indeed see that the 2011-13 proposal, was a clear no, but I also note that this is 2018 proposal is a clear yes. Perhaps times and views have changed? Given that the discussion is for the merge, perhaps you could close it with a merge recommendation or replace the merge template and add your views here? Klbrain ( talk) 16:20, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
As a separate concern, the current structure/content of this article has some problems. A lot of the article is devoted to discussing which cultures use the "mother" concept and which use the "father" concept. While this is an interesting thing to discuss, it hardly deserves the space that is currently allotted. Even the "Various connotations" section largely talks about how the term is used.
IMHO the existing content should be simplified and meaningful content added. The concept of a homeland actually is an important topic. See the following as examples of scholarly discussions of homelands:
-- MC 141.131.2.3 ( talk) 23:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( non-admin closure) ~SS49~ {talk} 12:37, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
– Like the recently moved The Americans, the award-winning and historically significant drama TV series Homeland is the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC here, and so this use, though the root term of many other uses including Homeland security, needs to be disambiguated since the page view stats show there is relatively very little interest in this article (for better or for worse), and the vast, vast majority of those searching with "homeland" are searching for the TV series, and are not served well by being taken to this article. Four to five THOUSAND users view the TV series page daily; while the others get 200 or fewer each, including the ones when a WP search for the series incorrectly takes the user to this page. This is not a close at all by any measure. If you support this move in general but prefer a different disambiguator (or a different title altogether), please support and propose the alternative disambiguator in your comment. A hatnote to Homeland (disambiguation) will be more than adequate to manage the few that end up at this page mistakenly. В²C ☎ 17:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
in no case does "what comes first to mind" to any particular person have much bearing, either positive or negative, on which topic, if any, actually is the primary topic.Just because the TV series does not come to mind first to you when you hear "homeland", I'm sure it does to the thousands of users who seek and read the TV series article every single day. -- В²C ☎ 21:15, 26 June 2019 (UTC)