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"The list below shows the more popular and/or historically significant home/personal computers (and computer ranges) of the 1980s and their initial year of release." and you've removed the IBM PC. WTF? - Tagishsimon
Just to give a rationale for my revert of User:65.87.129.55's recent modifications to the "Notable home computers" list: the list is meant as a quick reference to the most common/notable home computers, and, as such, does not need to give more that a bare essence of characteristics of each machine. The interested reader will get the details by visiting the articles. -- Wernher 00:48, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Follow-up regarding my pruning of the computer list of 25 Sep 2005 (check the diff to see the removals) :
I boldly commented out all the previously listed Japanese computers except the MSX, which was marketed more or less worldwide, and had some popularity outside its home market, especially in certain countries. It also represented the novel concept, in home computing, of attempting to establish a cross-vendor standard platform for several manufacturers to adopt (the latter presumably having to pay royalties to MS & ASCII).
If there are weighty reasons to reinstate one or more of the other Japanese computers into the list, arguments should be held forward for that case. One point might be that the Japanese home market is quite large (125m+ people), and as such should count more than smaller single countries. However, there is also a large number of home computers made in the more-populated U.S. which have not been included. -- Wernher 16:15, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
I think that the Odyssey entry should be restored. Just by being the first attempt at a home gaming device it owns its place on the notable consoles list. And I did also disagree with the editor when he said it was "too early to have an impact". It was indeed because it was a very early release that the Odyssey had any impact after all. It was a key factor for the development of the video-game industry, and had great impact in the development of the Atari system, mainly because of patents owned by Magnavox due to it´s early realease of the Odyssey. Loudenvier 08:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Quoting Apple II article:
Quoting IBM-PC article:
I think that the Apple II only had any impact in the home-computing area because there were no other options at it´s time. When the PC was realeased, although techically supperior and around the same price range, there were lot´s of other actual home-computers on the market. The IBM-PC was affordable for the middle-class, it was only not worth it. I think there should be some clarification on this matter in the article. It´s my opinion that the Apple II was a personnal computer that happened to have some impact in the home computer scene (or that it even helped starting it). It was not a home-computer per se. Loudenvier 15:17, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The TRS-80 which was priced at $595 and had the most number of software titles available till 1980. Alatari 20:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
It's odd that the TRS-80 which was priced at $595 and sold 100k units and was the most successful machine from 1977 to 1981 only being seriously competed with by Atari sales is neglected in these articles. The success of the Apple ][ marketing program to schools and the number of children growing up with them seems to have paid off. Alatari 20:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Remember the replacement of the whole article with just one sentence? That was because I took "Home computer" literally.
From what I understand you say the apple II is the first home computer in 1977. On the "history of computing hardware" they say "The MITS Altair, the first home computer, was featured on the cover of Popular Electronics for January 1975. It was the world's first mass-produced personal computer kit"
I'm not sure if this is due to a disagreement in what a home computer is. I thought it should be highlighted though.
Thanks
MarkeyC
Tnis article needs a complete re-write . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.1.227.70 ( talk • contribs)
The current text of the article could have been written in the early 90's. There doesn't appear to be any information on the last two decades of computing. Is there a reason for such omissions? -- Android Mouse 05:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
It is very unclear that the usage of the term 'Home Computer' is dead. I still use it to refer to the machine not at work and I don't mean the game console or the laptop. I mean the desktop personal computer. It is possible once computers start controlling the house as in Eureka's sheriff's bunker the 'Home Computer' article will take on new meaning. Pulled: (Use of the term "home computer" largely died out at the end of the decade (in the U.S.) or in the early 1990s (in Europe). This was due to the rise of the IBM PC compatible personal computer (the IBM PC and its clones are not covered in this article), and the consequent preference for the term "PC" rather than "home computer." ) Alatari 22:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm proposing this article be merged with the personal computer article. I haven't seen a citation that clearly distinguishes between the two terms. If you do believe there is a clear distinction then please provide a citation-- as currently both articles indicate the terms are interchangeable. -- Android Mouse 06:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
The problem is, the personal computer article essentially covers everything in the home computer article but more. I'll also point out again the Home computer article states "They are also known as personal computers." The fact that the term 'home computer' has largely fallen out of use and been replaced by the term pc indicates that there is little difference between them. -- Android Mouse 18:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Merge with History of computing hardware (1960s-present). This article mainly discusses the history of a particular era of computers (70's - 80's), vs. the concept of a home computer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cander0000 ( talk • contribs) 04:12, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
Here's what I think this article should be describing:
A personal microcomputer that:
Some instances:
It's not crisply defined so discussions as to if the Binford 6100 was or was not a "home computer" are profitless. But there were tens of millions of these things sold so it's an important bit of computing history. Don't merge! -- Wtshymanski 19:45, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
How can an article be seriously considered for FA if it has no references? Get the references in first, *then* nominate for FA. FA status is supposed to indicate some of Wikipedia's best work. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 17:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
This was indeed a premature FAC nomination; I have archived it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Home computer/archive1. A better first step would be peer review. Good luck! Maralia ( talk) 20:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I removed this sentence from the article:
because it is unclear. Does it mean that the BBC Micro, the Z81, the Spectrum and the Amstrad/Schneider sold more units than other systems sold in the US? Or that they were more popular with Europeans than they were with Americans, but didn't necessarily sell more total units? And was the C64 better than all those systems in Europe or the US? It needs to be clarified. It also really needs a reference. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 11:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
It textually says "Before long, a backlash set in—computer users were "geeks", "nerds" or worse, "hackers"." I think that using the word "worse" can be despective to the hacker community. -- Threpwood ( talk) 01:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
This section looks like original research. It reads more like an essay than an article. David Delony ( talk) 18:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
An anonymous user, who seems to be also editing this article legitimately, has been removing Kc85-3.jpg from this article, claiming that it misrepresents the appearance of a home computer. I've been reverting said user, but I'd like some input on the image. Any thoughts? Bart133 t c @ How's my driving? 21:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I have checked this article because I was looking for figures on sales of different home computer models, and I have just found that there were just but a few numbers available, and what is worse, without any reference. So I just would like to expose the question here, since I found I could rely on a number like 17 million units for C64, which I guess that makes sense, but on the other side I wonder how come the figure is just 5 million for MSX computers. Does it include the whole line-up of models up to Turbo-R or just the first generations? Do the numbers refer to the western markets or do also include the home market of Japan and even secondary Asian markets such as Korea with the Daewoo rip-off models? I am not sure about the figures -again, that's how I reached here on the first place- but I have my doubts about the MSX figure for the reasons exposed above, and I think that the data should be contrasted or either removed. Thank you for your attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.131.65.190 ( talk) 13:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
As I read the Linux article, it seems in order.
But, when I go to Print Preview, pages 5 and 8 are blank. If I try to print them, they remain blank. Why does this happen?
Thundermist04167 ( talk) 12:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
We shouldn't confuse the type of keytop with the switch mechanism. Some keyboards were made of individual switches soldered to a board, with separate keycaps (one ancient terminal I dismantled used magnets in each key and a reed switch for each button). Most keyboards are membrane-type, with two sheets of plastic printed with flexible conductors, pressed together to make contact. If you're on a slightly more posh machine, you'll have a keytop that presses on the membrane; if the designers were aiming at cheap and cheerful, instead you'll be pressing your fingers on a plastic sheet that is the top side of the contact membrane. I've never dismantled a PC Jr or any of the Atari machines; were their "chicklet" keytops operating discrete switches, pressing on membranes, or using those detestable carbon buttons that get oily after a few months and cause you to throw the remote control at the wall? All original research, citations would be useful (product reviewers would have commented on this sort of detail in the day). -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 16:41, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
"In the late 1970s and early 1980s, from about 1977 to 1983, it was widely predicted [24] that computers would soon revolutionize many aspects of home and family life as they had business practices in the previous decades.[25] Mothers would keep their recipe catalog in "kitchen computer" databases and turn to a medical database for help with child care, fathers would use the family's computer to manage family finances and track automobile maintenance. Children would use disk-based encyclopedias for school work and would be avid video gamers. Home automation would bring about the intelligent home of the '80s. Using Videotex, NAPLPS or some sort of as-yet unrealized computer technology, television would gain interactivity. The "personalized newspaper" (to be displayed on the television screen) was a commonly-predicted application. Morning coffee would be brewed automatically under computer control. The same computer would control the house lighting and temperature. Robots would take the garbage out, and be programmed to perform new tasks via the home computer. Electronics were expensive, so it was generally assumed that each home would have only one multitasking computer for the entire family to use in a timesharing arrangement, with interfaces to the various devices it was expected to control.
“ The single most important item in 2008 households is the computer. These electronic brains govern everything from meal preparation and waking up the household to assembling shopping lists and keeping track of the bank balance. Sensors in kitchen appliances, climatizing units, communicators, power supply and other household utilities warn the computer when the item is likely to fail. A repairman will show up even before any obvious breakdown occurs.
Computers also handle travel reservations, relay telephone messages, keep track of birthdays and anniversaries, compute taxes and even figure the monthly bills for electricity, water, telephone and other utilities. Not every family has its private computer. Many families reserve time on a city or regional computer to serve their needs. The machine tallies up its own services and submits a bill, just as it does with other utilities.[26]
—Mechanix Illustrated, November 1968 edition
All this was predicted to be commonplace sometime before the end of the decade, but virtually every aspect of the predicted revolution would be delayed to later years. The computers available to consumers of the time period just weren't powerful enough to perform any single task required to realize this vision, much less do them all simultaneously."
Did a significant number of people find the process of plugging the computer into the TV, going into the drawer of cassettes and pulling out the one marked "Pineapple upside down cake recipe", pressing "Play" on the cassette deck and waiting 2 1/2 minutes for the first 40 character-wide-screen to come up *useful*? That's what you got for £150 in 1983. This wasn't useful in any era; aside from video games there was little that an early 1980's home computer did that couldn't be done better with a box of file cards and a typewriter. The MI article describes the wonderland that awaited us - the actual delivery, as so often is the case, took quite a bit longer. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 14:49, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
We're now at the stage of loudly repeating ourselves. By the time you'd purchased all the crap you needed to make a TI-99 or C-64 or TRS 80 Model 1 actually *useful*, you'd spent a couple of months pay, making the "home computer" the second most expensive object in the household after the family car with vastly less daily use. Not surprisingly, very few people did this. The £150 ( say, US $300) 1983 box referred to above was only good for games and didn't even have a dedicated screen - which meant that to play "Centipedes" on it you had to take over the family TV. So, even at the time these things flourished, very few people found "use" for them as anything other than games consoles or fancy desk calculators. You couldn't even *print* anything without spending a fortune on some shaky printer that would not have competed with a 1920's Underwood for quality of type impression.
Contrast this with the 1960's vision of an information appliance that would keep your files, record your appointments, regulate your house temperature, etc. - this is still leading-edge costly stuff today as far as home automation goes and would have been ludicrous in 1983. You couldn't look up a bus timetable with a 1983 home computer (that wasn't ludicrously expanded) - how often have you checked, oh, say, movie show times? Could you have done that with the $300 1983 "home computer". No. Did anyone do income tax on a 1983 home computer? Not without spending a fortune on expansion boxes, disk drives, printers, cables, and software. You bought a computer in 1983 out of curiosity and teh desire to say "I have a computer", maybe to play some games or learn a little about programming; most people didn't buy it to file their record collections or keep their photo albums on. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 14:32, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
I recall a user group meeting I attended where we all tried to help one gentleman who was trying to keep a name and address list for his club on an Osbonre 1 with dual floppy drives - unluckily, his group had just enough members ( in one city!) that the contact data could not fit in the available memory, and the best we could come up with was to split the membership up by first letter of last name over multiple floppy disks. And this was on a CDN $2200 machine that came *with* *two* floppy drives. He needed a hard disk, but the only thing available in that era was a $2500 add-on to a $2200 machine that instantly made it a piece of furniture, no longer portable. This was around 1982 or so. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 14:17, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
According to CD-ROM, the drives were available in 1985, and the Grolier encyclopedia was available on CD-ROM in 1986. Please stop trying to change history.-- Asher196 ( talk) 04:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
If you actually read the link to IBM Personal Computer, you will see that the IBM PC and Home Computer are synonymous.-- Asher196 ( talk) 18:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
The $1,565 price bought a system unit, a keyboard and a color/graphics capability. Options included a display, a printer, two diskette drives, extra memory, communications, game adapter and application packages — including one for text processing. The development team referred to their creation as a mini-compact, at a mini-price, with IBM engineering under the hood. The system unit was powered by an Intel 8088 microprocessor operating at speeds measured in millionths of a second. It was the size of a portable typewriter and contained 40K of read-only memory and 16K of user memory, as well as a built-in speaker for generating music. Its five expansion slots could be used to connect such features as expanded memory, display and printing units and game "paddles." The unit also ran self-diagnostic checks."
I would like to reintroduce a little reality ...
No home computer had a CD-ROM in 1985. Most people did not even have CD players for home audio in 1985, nevermind a home computer or a home computer with a CD-ROM in 1985. The existence of a CD-ROM is irrelevant - battery powered cars existed then too, but one would not claim they were readily available. Most people did not start to see CD-ROMs until the multi-media craze of the early 1990s. (More like 1992 to 1994.) A hard drive in 1985 would made made a machine a higher end machine.
Claiming the IBM PC 5150 was not a home computer is inane. Sure, IBM stands for "International Business Machines". But a lot of those early PCs did double duty in people's homes. How would one explain the existence of MS Flight Simulator and all of the other games people were purchasing for the IBM PC back then? If a machine was commonly found in homes, then it should be considered a home computer. And clearly IBM PCs were found in home environments, for a variety of reasons.
The PCjr is another great example of problems with the definitions used in this article. It was IBM's vision of a home computer, clearly targeted at the home market. Yet it fails to make the list. Why? Was it really a mainframe and that is why it was not popular? Whether it was considered a flop or not, it still sold well over 100,000 copies. (Plausible estimates go up to 250,000 units shipped.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.42.84.69 ( talk) 21:41, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Sofia Koutsouveli added this section to the lead:
While undeniably correct information, I'm not certain it belongs in the lead. I don't think there is any assumption on the part of the reader that consumers were expected to assemble home computers themselves. And the Newbear was not a major player in the home computer market. While I think it's okay to include this information, I think it needs to go elsewhere in the article. Any suggestions? — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 15:44, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
The article seems to describe events of one country only. In Europe, the home computer revolution really happened. Not for controlling lighting or for brewing coffee in the morning, but for a big games market and home office use. It was interesting to read what happened in USA - I think many Europeans wonder what you did for games, for example, during the period that the PC was unusable for games and Atari 8-bits were 10 years old technology. But it seems to me the entire article is US-centric and incorrectly depicts the commercial success of home computer companies, home computer software companies, home computer peripheral companies, and the many home computer magazines in Europe from circa 1982-1992.
Henrik Erlandsson 13:40, 16 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HenrikErlandsson ( talk • contribs)
The "revolution" was specifically about home control, brewing coffee, online newspaper/shopping. It was not about video games and word processing, anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OMPIRE ( talk • contribs) 12:33, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
I tried to fix the article regarding the Amiga 1000 cited as an home computer, but OMPIRE continuously reverted my changes. The point is that this computer isn't an home but a personal computer, as correctly reported in its page.
The Amiga is a line of personal computers, where the low-end machines were basically sold as home computers, as reported also in the main article which in general talks about them.
For those reason, I think that the Amiga 1000 should be completely removed both from Technology and the 1980s sections (the latter reports a Commodore Amiga on July 1985, which is clearly the 1000).
BTW, the same should apply for the Apple IIGS and the Acorn Archimedes, which are other examples of personal computers wrongly reported in this article. Cdimauro ( talk) 21:37, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
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Today I made bold and posted the new History section I have been working on for a week now (you are looking at about 9 hours of work here, phew!!! The chart alone took about 2+ hours.)
My reason for doing this was that I thought the presentation of all the home computers was a little haphazard. The list at the end of the article just didn't do it for me. And I thought a visual presentation would look better and be more intuitive. Then, of course, I had to devise some prose to explain it. I tried to keep it short but still get in the historical story and the forces that shaped events as they did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikkileaker ( talk • contribs) 22:48, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm interested in how the bar chart looks on other people's monitors. I had to fiddle around with the parameters quite a bit to get it to look "just right" on my PC. I copied the template from the article for "video game console" and just tweaked the params around till it seemed to work out. I think we could choose better colors for the bars, but I have absolutely no idea how the figures work in the Color section of the template. All I could figure out was how to get the Golden Age of the 8-bits to come out in a shade of yellow that seems to come close to Gold!
I hope no one disagrees with my cut-off dates for the Five Waves of Home computer. It all seemed logical but I haven't time right now to explain. But it should be obvious that the Sinclair Spectrum was the last of the Second Wave (chiclet keyboard, black and white video) and that the C-64 was the first of the new breed comprising the Third Wave. It also seems right that the Amstrad CPC was the last of the Third Wave (early 1984), which is right where IBM came out with the PCjr which started the 16-bit PC trend that, with MS-Windows, eventually doomed all the home computers.
As for the legend of the bar chart: the computers are presented in chronological order. May I stress that the dates used are those at which the computers first shipped in quantity, NOT the dates that their manufacturers announced the product. In some cases half a year or even 10 months elapsed until the computers were actually shipped. Furthermore, please bear in mind that these spans of time represented by the bars DO NOT represent the lifetimes of the computers -- ONLY their dates of first introduction to the market. Each Wave represents a series of introductions by the various manufacturers which, I believe, typify an era in the evolution of home computers. Please read the accompanying paragraphs describing each Wave closely. I explain that the market lifetime of the computers extends well beyond the spans of time shown by the bars in the graph. It is a series of EVENTs, not DURATIONs of the home computers.
Whew! I'm done. I KNOW this is a big change to the article and hope not too many people here will get upset with me. I do realize that there will need a few tweaks here and there and even some things might be improved. I hope I won't have to explain too much what I've done and why. Well, we shall see. Wikkileaker ( talk) 22:39, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
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The displayed KC 85/3 is a really bad example for a "home computer". This is as in East-Germany all pre-assembled computers were extremely short in supply that it was almost impossible to own one privately - and therefore to have it at home - which is the defining feature of a home computer as per top section of this Wiki page.
I was born in 1973 in East-Germany and one could buy very basic computer boards with down-rated components for self-assembly, or, one could go to public libraries and training centres to have access there to such pre-assembled computers.
Alternatively, one could ask ones grannies (who could travel freely after reaching retirement age) to bring a C64/C16/Atari back from West Germany, or, one could ask your parents to spend around 4000 East Marks (according to the unofficial exchange rate of 1:20) to buy a used C64 there. That were the ways I and some of my friends got their home computers around 1987 - without getting in any trouble, as it was officially not just tolerated but even kind of encouraged to ease supply issues.
Honestly, I don't know anyone who would own a pre-assembled East-German computer privately. Even the communist government acknowledged that KCs are not home computers by renaming them from "HC" (home computer) to "KC" (klein/small computer) and also by not distributing them on public sales channels. (See the German Wiki entry on KCs for further details.)
The situation in other communist states was different. For example, in the SU there were several pre-assembled home computers for sale.
Finally, it is possible that a few KCs were privately owned - but just by higher party members etc. via non-public channels. Also, I don't dispute at all that there were fan clubs for the KC line of computers.
I recommend removing the info box about the KC 85/3 entirely as there is another info box about KC systems further down on the same page and also because the design is not that unusual.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2454:8D55:500:29F0:5908:5582:911F ( talk) 19:24, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
"The line between 'business' and 'home' computer market segments vanished completely once IBM PC compatibles became commonly used in the home" needs correcting, as it has not 'vanished completely'. The number of home computers since the 90s I would argue has increased (not including IBM Compatible or Windows based computers) in numbers, but decreased in percentage. As you should already know there are more home computers being release - Commander X16, Mega 65, Spectrum Next, variants of Commodore 64, Amstrad CPC, ZX Spectrum, ZX81, Amiga etc. These are all home computers - Amiga is a crossover business one, because it was orignally marketed in both sectors but even now it is still growing (after it shrunk) in the home market - soon to be released A1200 Maxi. 157.211.156.37 ( talk) 07:17, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
I ddo not think this characterization is precise, because PDP-11, unlike BK did not have graphical display. So, I would not call BK "stripped down". Reciprocist ( talk) 10:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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"The list below shows the more popular and/or historically significant home/personal computers (and computer ranges) of the 1980s and their initial year of release." and you've removed the IBM PC. WTF? - Tagishsimon
Just to give a rationale for my revert of User:65.87.129.55's recent modifications to the "Notable home computers" list: the list is meant as a quick reference to the most common/notable home computers, and, as such, does not need to give more that a bare essence of characteristics of each machine. The interested reader will get the details by visiting the articles. -- Wernher 00:48, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Follow-up regarding my pruning of the computer list of 25 Sep 2005 (check the diff to see the removals) :
I boldly commented out all the previously listed Japanese computers except the MSX, which was marketed more or less worldwide, and had some popularity outside its home market, especially in certain countries. It also represented the novel concept, in home computing, of attempting to establish a cross-vendor standard platform for several manufacturers to adopt (the latter presumably having to pay royalties to MS & ASCII).
If there are weighty reasons to reinstate one or more of the other Japanese computers into the list, arguments should be held forward for that case. One point might be that the Japanese home market is quite large (125m+ people), and as such should count more than smaller single countries. However, there is also a large number of home computers made in the more-populated U.S. which have not been included. -- Wernher 16:15, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
I think that the Odyssey entry should be restored. Just by being the first attempt at a home gaming device it owns its place on the notable consoles list. And I did also disagree with the editor when he said it was "too early to have an impact". It was indeed because it was a very early release that the Odyssey had any impact after all. It was a key factor for the development of the video-game industry, and had great impact in the development of the Atari system, mainly because of patents owned by Magnavox due to it´s early realease of the Odyssey. Loudenvier 08:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Quoting Apple II article:
Quoting IBM-PC article:
I think that the Apple II only had any impact in the home-computing area because there were no other options at it´s time. When the PC was realeased, although techically supperior and around the same price range, there were lot´s of other actual home-computers on the market. The IBM-PC was affordable for the middle-class, it was only not worth it. I think there should be some clarification on this matter in the article. It´s my opinion that the Apple II was a personnal computer that happened to have some impact in the home computer scene (or that it even helped starting it). It was not a home-computer per se. Loudenvier 15:17, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The TRS-80 which was priced at $595 and had the most number of software titles available till 1980. Alatari 20:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
It's odd that the TRS-80 which was priced at $595 and sold 100k units and was the most successful machine from 1977 to 1981 only being seriously competed with by Atari sales is neglected in these articles. The success of the Apple ][ marketing program to schools and the number of children growing up with them seems to have paid off. Alatari 20:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Remember the replacement of the whole article with just one sentence? That was because I took "Home computer" literally.
From what I understand you say the apple II is the first home computer in 1977. On the "history of computing hardware" they say "The MITS Altair, the first home computer, was featured on the cover of Popular Electronics for January 1975. It was the world's first mass-produced personal computer kit"
I'm not sure if this is due to a disagreement in what a home computer is. I thought it should be highlighted though.
Thanks
MarkeyC
Tnis article needs a complete re-write . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.1.227.70 ( talk • contribs)
The current text of the article could have been written in the early 90's. There doesn't appear to be any information on the last two decades of computing. Is there a reason for such omissions? -- Android Mouse 05:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
It is very unclear that the usage of the term 'Home Computer' is dead. I still use it to refer to the machine not at work and I don't mean the game console or the laptop. I mean the desktop personal computer. It is possible once computers start controlling the house as in Eureka's sheriff's bunker the 'Home Computer' article will take on new meaning. Pulled: (Use of the term "home computer" largely died out at the end of the decade (in the U.S.) or in the early 1990s (in Europe). This was due to the rise of the IBM PC compatible personal computer (the IBM PC and its clones are not covered in this article), and the consequent preference for the term "PC" rather than "home computer." ) Alatari 22:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm proposing this article be merged with the personal computer article. I haven't seen a citation that clearly distinguishes between the two terms. If you do believe there is a clear distinction then please provide a citation-- as currently both articles indicate the terms are interchangeable. -- Android Mouse 06:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
The problem is, the personal computer article essentially covers everything in the home computer article but more. I'll also point out again the Home computer article states "They are also known as personal computers." The fact that the term 'home computer' has largely fallen out of use and been replaced by the term pc indicates that there is little difference between them. -- Android Mouse 18:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Merge with History of computing hardware (1960s-present). This article mainly discusses the history of a particular era of computers (70's - 80's), vs. the concept of a home computer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cander0000 ( talk • contribs) 04:12, August 21, 2007 (UTC).
Here's what I think this article should be describing:
A personal microcomputer that:
Some instances:
It's not crisply defined so discussions as to if the Binford 6100 was or was not a "home computer" are profitless. But there were tens of millions of these things sold so it's an important bit of computing history. Don't merge! -- Wtshymanski 19:45, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
How can an article be seriously considered for FA if it has no references? Get the references in first, *then* nominate for FA. FA status is supposed to indicate some of Wikipedia's best work. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 17:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
This was indeed a premature FAC nomination; I have archived it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Home computer/archive1. A better first step would be peer review. Good luck! Maralia ( talk) 20:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I removed this sentence from the article:
because it is unclear. Does it mean that the BBC Micro, the Z81, the Spectrum and the Amstrad/Schneider sold more units than other systems sold in the US? Or that they were more popular with Europeans than they were with Americans, but didn't necessarily sell more total units? And was the C64 better than all those systems in Europe or the US? It needs to be clarified. It also really needs a reference. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 11:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
It textually says "Before long, a backlash set in—computer users were "geeks", "nerds" or worse, "hackers"." I think that using the word "worse" can be despective to the hacker community. -- Threpwood ( talk) 01:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
This section looks like original research. It reads more like an essay than an article. David Delony ( talk) 18:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
An anonymous user, who seems to be also editing this article legitimately, has been removing Kc85-3.jpg from this article, claiming that it misrepresents the appearance of a home computer. I've been reverting said user, but I'd like some input on the image. Any thoughts? Bart133 t c @ How's my driving? 21:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I have checked this article because I was looking for figures on sales of different home computer models, and I have just found that there were just but a few numbers available, and what is worse, without any reference. So I just would like to expose the question here, since I found I could rely on a number like 17 million units for C64, which I guess that makes sense, but on the other side I wonder how come the figure is just 5 million for MSX computers. Does it include the whole line-up of models up to Turbo-R or just the first generations? Do the numbers refer to the western markets or do also include the home market of Japan and even secondary Asian markets such as Korea with the Daewoo rip-off models? I am not sure about the figures -again, that's how I reached here on the first place- but I have my doubts about the MSX figure for the reasons exposed above, and I think that the data should be contrasted or either removed. Thank you for your attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.131.65.190 ( talk) 13:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
As I read the Linux article, it seems in order.
But, when I go to Print Preview, pages 5 and 8 are blank. If I try to print them, they remain blank. Why does this happen?
Thundermist04167 ( talk) 12:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
We shouldn't confuse the type of keytop with the switch mechanism. Some keyboards were made of individual switches soldered to a board, with separate keycaps (one ancient terminal I dismantled used magnets in each key and a reed switch for each button). Most keyboards are membrane-type, with two sheets of plastic printed with flexible conductors, pressed together to make contact. If you're on a slightly more posh machine, you'll have a keytop that presses on the membrane; if the designers were aiming at cheap and cheerful, instead you'll be pressing your fingers on a plastic sheet that is the top side of the contact membrane. I've never dismantled a PC Jr or any of the Atari machines; were their "chicklet" keytops operating discrete switches, pressing on membranes, or using those detestable carbon buttons that get oily after a few months and cause you to throw the remote control at the wall? All original research, citations would be useful (product reviewers would have commented on this sort of detail in the day). -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 16:41, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
"In the late 1970s and early 1980s, from about 1977 to 1983, it was widely predicted [24] that computers would soon revolutionize many aspects of home and family life as they had business practices in the previous decades.[25] Mothers would keep their recipe catalog in "kitchen computer" databases and turn to a medical database for help with child care, fathers would use the family's computer to manage family finances and track automobile maintenance. Children would use disk-based encyclopedias for school work and would be avid video gamers. Home automation would bring about the intelligent home of the '80s. Using Videotex, NAPLPS or some sort of as-yet unrealized computer technology, television would gain interactivity. The "personalized newspaper" (to be displayed on the television screen) was a commonly-predicted application. Morning coffee would be brewed automatically under computer control. The same computer would control the house lighting and temperature. Robots would take the garbage out, and be programmed to perform new tasks via the home computer. Electronics were expensive, so it was generally assumed that each home would have only one multitasking computer for the entire family to use in a timesharing arrangement, with interfaces to the various devices it was expected to control.
“ The single most important item in 2008 households is the computer. These electronic brains govern everything from meal preparation and waking up the household to assembling shopping lists and keeping track of the bank balance. Sensors in kitchen appliances, climatizing units, communicators, power supply and other household utilities warn the computer when the item is likely to fail. A repairman will show up even before any obvious breakdown occurs.
Computers also handle travel reservations, relay telephone messages, keep track of birthdays and anniversaries, compute taxes and even figure the monthly bills for electricity, water, telephone and other utilities. Not every family has its private computer. Many families reserve time on a city or regional computer to serve their needs. The machine tallies up its own services and submits a bill, just as it does with other utilities.[26]
—Mechanix Illustrated, November 1968 edition
All this was predicted to be commonplace sometime before the end of the decade, but virtually every aspect of the predicted revolution would be delayed to later years. The computers available to consumers of the time period just weren't powerful enough to perform any single task required to realize this vision, much less do them all simultaneously."
Did a significant number of people find the process of plugging the computer into the TV, going into the drawer of cassettes and pulling out the one marked "Pineapple upside down cake recipe", pressing "Play" on the cassette deck and waiting 2 1/2 minutes for the first 40 character-wide-screen to come up *useful*? That's what you got for £150 in 1983. This wasn't useful in any era; aside from video games there was little that an early 1980's home computer did that couldn't be done better with a box of file cards and a typewriter. The MI article describes the wonderland that awaited us - the actual delivery, as so often is the case, took quite a bit longer. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 14:49, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
We're now at the stage of loudly repeating ourselves. By the time you'd purchased all the crap you needed to make a TI-99 or C-64 or TRS 80 Model 1 actually *useful*, you'd spent a couple of months pay, making the "home computer" the second most expensive object in the household after the family car with vastly less daily use. Not surprisingly, very few people did this. The £150 ( say, US $300) 1983 box referred to above was only good for games and didn't even have a dedicated screen - which meant that to play "Centipedes" on it you had to take over the family TV. So, even at the time these things flourished, very few people found "use" for them as anything other than games consoles or fancy desk calculators. You couldn't even *print* anything without spending a fortune on some shaky printer that would not have competed with a 1920's Underwood for quality of type impression.
Contrast this with the 1960's vision of an information appliance that would keep your files, record your appointments, regulate your house temperature, etc. - this is still leading-edge costly stuff today as far as home automation goes and would have been ludicrous in 1983. You couldn't look up a bus timetable with a 1983 home computer (that wasn't ludicrously expanded) - how often have you checked, oh, say, movie show times? Could you have done that with the $300 1983 "home computer". No. Did anyone do income tax on a 1983 home computer? Not without spending a fortune on expansion boxes, disk drives, printers, cables, and software. You bought a computer in 1983 out of curiosity and teh desire to say "I have a computer", maybe to play some games or learn a little about programming; most people didn't buy it to file their record collections or keep their photo albums on. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 14:32, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
I recall a user group meeting I attended where we all tried to help one gentleman who was trying to keep a name and address list for his club on an Osbonre 1 with dual floppy drives - unluckily, his group had just enough members ( in one city!) that the contact data could not fit in the available memory, and the best we could come up with was to split the membership up by first letter of last name over multiple floppy disks. And this was on a CDN $2200 machine that came *with* *two* floppy drives. He needed a hard disk, but the only thing available in that era was a $2500 add-on to a $2200 machine that instantly made it a piece of furniture, no longer portable. This was around 1982 or so. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 14:17, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
According to CD-ROM, the drives were available in 1985, and the Grolier encyclopedia was available on CD-ROM in 1986. Please stop trying to change history.-- Asher196 ( talk) 04:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
If you actually read the link to IBM Personal Computer, you will see that the IBM PC and Home Computer are synonymous.-- Asher196 ( talk) 18:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
The $1,565 price bought a system unit, a keyboard and a color/graphics capability. Options included a display, a printer, two diskette drives, extra memory, communications, game adapter and application packages — including one for text processing. The development team referred to their creation as a mini-compact, at a mini-price, with IBM engineering under the hood. The system unit was powered by an Intel 8088 microprocessor operating at speeds measured in millionths of a second. It was the size of a portable typewriter and contained 40K of read-only memory and 16K of user memory, as well as a built-in speaker for generating music. Its five expansion slots could be used to connect such features as expanded memory, display and printing units and game "paddles." The unit also ran self-diagnostic checks."
I would like to reintroduce a little reality ...
No home computer had a CD-ROM in 1985. Most people did not even have CD players for home audio in 1985, nevermind a home computer or a home computer with a CD-ROM in 1985. The existence of a CD-ROM is irrelevant - battery powered cars existed then too, but one would not claim they were readily available. Most people did not start to see CD-ROMs until the multi-media craze of the early 1990s. (More like 1992 to 1994.) A hard drive in 1985 would made made a machine a higher end machine.
Claiming the IBM PC 5150 was not a home computer is inane. Sure, IBM stands for "International Business Machines". But a lot of those early PCs did double duty in people's homes. How would one explain the existence of MS Flight Simulator and all of the other games people were purchasing for the IBM PC back then? If a machine was commonly found in homes, then it should be considered a home computer. And clearly IBM PCs were found in home environments, for a variety of reasons.
The PCjr is another great example of problems with the definitions used in this article. It was IBM's vision of a home computer, clearly targeted at the home market. Yet it fails to make the list. Why? Was it really a mainframe and that is why it was not popular? Whether it was considered a flop or not, it still sold well over 100,000 copies. (Plausible estimates go up to 250,000 units shipped.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.42.84.69 ( talk) 21:41, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Sofia Koutsouveli added this section to the lead:
While undeniably correct information, I'm not certain it belongs in the lead. I don't think there is any assumption on the part of the reader that consumers were expected to assemble home computers themselves. And the Newbear was not a major player in the home computer market. While I think it's okay to include this information, I think it needs to go elsewhere in the article. Any suggestions? — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 15:44, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
The article seems to describe events of one country only. In Europe, the home computer revolution really happened. Not for controlling lighting or for brewing coffee in the morning, but for a big games market and home office use. It was interesting to read what happened in USA - I think many Europeans wonder what you did for games, for example, during the period that the PC was unusable for games and Atari 8-bits were 10 years old technology. But it seems to me the entire article is US-centric and incorrectly depicts the commercial success of home computer companies, home computer software companies, home computer peripheral companies, and the many home computer magazines in Europe from circa 1982-1992.
Henrik Erlandsson 13:40, 16 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HenrikErlandsson ( talk • contribs)
The "revolution" was specifically about home control, brewing coffee, online newspaper/shopping. It was not about video games and word processing, anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OMPIRE ( talk • contribs) 12:33, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
I tried to fix the article regarding the Amiga 1000 cited as an home computer, but OMPIRE continuously reverted my changes. The point is that this computer isn't an home but a personal computer, as correctly reported in its page.
The Amiga is a line of personal computers, where the low-end machines were basically sold as home computers, as reported also in the main article which in general talks about them.
For those reason, I think that the Amiga 1000 should be completely removed both from Technology and the 1980s sections (the latter reports a Commodore Amiga on July 1985, which is clearly the 1000).
BTW, the same should apply for the Apple IIGS and the Acorn Archimedes, which are other examples of personal computers wrongly reported in this article. Cdimauro ( talk) 21:37, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
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Today I made bold and posted the new History section I have been working on for a week now (you are looking at about 9 hours of work here, phew!!! The chart alone took about 2+ hours.)
My reason for doing this was that I thought the presentation of all the home computers was a little haphazard. The list at the end of the article just didn't do it for me. And I thought a visual presentation would look better and be more intuitive. Then, of course, I had to devise some prose to explain it. I tried to keep it short but still get in the historical story and the forces that shaped events as they did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikkileaker ( talk • contribs) 22:48, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm interested in how the bar chart looks on other people's monitors. I had to fiddle around with the parameters quite a bit to get it to look "just right" on my PC. I copied the template from the article for "video game console" and just tweaked the params around till it seemed to work out. I think we could choose better colors for the bars, but I have absolutely no idea how the figures work in the Color section of the template. All I could figure out was how to get the Golden Age of the 8-bits to come out in a shade of yellow that seems to come close to Gold!
I hope no one disagrees with my cut-off dates for the Five Waves of Home computer. It all seemed logical but I haven't time right now to explain. But it should be obvious that the Sinclair Spectrum was the last of the Second Wave (chiclet keyboard, black and white video) and that the C-64 was the first of the new breed comprising the Third Wave. It also seems right that the Amstrad CPC was the last of the Third Wave (early 1984), which is right where IBM came out with the PCjr which started the 16-bit PC trend that, with MS-Windows, eventually doomed all the home computers.
As for the legend of the bar chart: the computers are presented in chronological order. May I stress that the dates used are those at which the computers first shipped in quantity, NOT the dates that their manufacturers announced the product. In some cases half a year or even 10 months elapsed until the computers were actually shipped. Furthermore, please bear in mind that these spans of time represented by the bars DO NOT represent the lifetimes of the computers -- ONLY their dates of first introduction to the market. Each Wave represents a series of introductions by the various manufacturers which, I believe, typify an era in the evolution of home computers. Please read the accompanying paragraphs describing each Wave closely. I explain that the market lifetime of the computers extends well beyond the spans of time shown by the bars in the graph. It is a series of EVENTs, not DURATIONs of the home computers.
Whew! I'm done. I KNOW this is a big change to the article and hope not too many people here will get upset with me. I do realize that there will need a few tweaks here and there and even some things might be improved. I hope I won't have to explain too much what I've done and why. Well, we shall see. Wikkileaker ( talk) 22:39, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
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The displayed KC 85/3 is a really bad example for a "home computer". This is as in East-Germany all pre-assembled computers were extremely short in supply that it was almost impossible to own one privately - and therefore to have it at home - which is the defining feature of a home computer as per top section of this Wiki page.
I was born in 1973 in East-Germany and one could buy very basic computer boards with down-rated components for self-assembly, or, one could go to public libraries and training centres to have access there to such pre-assembled computers.
Alternatively, one could ask ones grannies (who could travel freely after reaching retirement age) to bring a C64/C16/Atari back from West Germany, or, one could ask your parents to spend around 4000 East Marks (according to the unofficial exchange rate of 1:20) to buy a used C64 there. That were the ways I and some of my friends got their home computers around 1987 - without getting in any trouble, as it was officially not just tolerated but even kind of encouraged to ease supply issues.
Honestly, I don't know anyone who would own a pre-assembled East-German computer privately. Even the communist government acknowledged that KCs are not home computers by renaming them from "HC" (home computer) to "KC" (klein/small computer) and also by not distributing them on public sales channels. (See the German Wiki entry on KCs for further details.)
The situation in other communist states was different. For example, in the SU there were several pre-assembled home computers for sale.
Finally, it is possible that a few KCs were privately owned - but just by higher party members etc. via non-public channels. Also, I don't dispute at all that there were fan clubs for the KC line of computers.
I recommend removing the info box about the KC 85/3 entirely as there is another info box about KC systems further down on the same page and also because the design is not that unusual.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2454:8D55:500:29F0:5908:5582:911F ( talk) 19:24, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
"The line between 'business' and 'home' computer market segments vanished completely once IBM PC compatibles became commonly used in the home" needs correcting, as it has not 'vanished completely'. The number of home computers since the 90s I would argue has increased (not including IBM Compatible or Windows based computers) in numbers, but decreased in percentage. As you should already know there are more home computers being release - Commander X16, Mega 65, Spectrum Next, variants of Commodore 64, Amstrad CPC, ZX Spectrum, ZX81, Amiga etc. These are all home computers - Amiga is a crossover business one, because it was orignally marketed in both sectors but even now it is still growing (after it shrunk) in the home market - soon to be released A1200 Maxi. 157.211.156.37 ( talk) 07:17, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
I ddo not think this characterization is precise, because PDP-11, unlike BK did not have graphical display. So, I would not call BK "stripped down". Reciprocist ( talk) 10:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC)