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First of all, according to the wiki article islam and abortion, while abortion is a hotly debated subject in Islamic jurisprudence, "the majority of Muslim scholars permit abortion, although they differ on the stage of fetal development beyond which it becomes prohibited."; second, the given Quranic passages do not explicitly say anything that contradicts this statement; third, the entire espousal of this emotionally charged and singular view is irrelevant to the article anyways. Extrabadfish ( talk) 02:36, 29 July 2011 (UTC)extrabadfish
I did not find anything related to Gabriel or a spirit in Genesis 18. Might this refer to Genesis 16? In there at least I can see references to "the angel of the Lord". If you know about this, please correct. God Head /*26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [1]
For people who believe the bible Genesis Chapter 1 verse #26 God said "Let Us make man in our image,after our likeness"/ [2] This shows God was speaking to another part of being The Creator. This has to be at least His Son Jesus. This in my view shows there is a God Head of at least 2 forms. I believe three because when God and/or Jesus said something The Holy Spirit performed the action. Fishenfun ( talk) 02:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC)Fishenfunx
References
I would argue that the Allah of the Quran IS a Trinity, as the text speaks for itself. In Muslim exegesis, however, this is explained away via the application of the name of Angel Gabriel to the Holy Spirit, even though the Spirit of Allah has all the attributes of God, such as the ability to create life and omnipresence, and is never associated with an angel or with any other created entity which is subordinate to God. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.158.14 ( talk) 00:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I am not going to argue what the concept of Allah is in the Quran; but the English translation of the Quran used here has a flaw. It translates the passages regarding the beliefs of others as "Trinity", however this is not the word used by Arabic Christians, in fact the word used is better translated "Three" a pantheon concept of Allah held by some sects in Arabia at the time of the Prophet.It is misleading in an English text to use such a translation. It is obviously the bias of the translated rather than faithful study of the text. A comparison can be made by looking at the Arabic text of the Quran and Arabic Christian documents regarding the "Trinity" such as the Canons of their Churches User:Alaxdar —Preceding undated comment added 18:23, 5 September 2011 (UTC).
That is a mistranslation of 5 Al-Maeda 73, it does not use those words.إِلَـٰهٌ Ila is אל El in Hebrew, and means a God, اللَّهَ Allah is אלהי Elohey in Hebrew, the Highest El, and he is Holy Spirit, and to put the Highest El the third of three, is the blasphemy against Holy Spirit that Jesus said has no forgiveness in this life, or the life to come like Muhammad is saying. You are are each an El, a group is plural El, אלהים Elohim. Speaking of Jerusalem from above as Christ Joseph's Bride, and speaking of the Prophet like unto Moses Joseph as Elohim, speaking of Joseph's son Jesus as the High Priest like unto Aaron, calling the Father and Son each, an El, putting Holy Spirit Yahweh our Creator as the third of three is blasphemy. I am the Prophet Joseph. Psalm 82:6 אני־אמרתי אלהים אתם ובני עליון כלכם׃ "I said, You are Elohim, and my son Highest all you!
.5 Al-Maeda 73
"Have disbelieved who say that Allah is the third of three and no El but one El, although not finished what they say to the elders who disbelieve their painful torment."
لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلَاثَةٍ ۘ وَمَا مِنْ إِلَـٰهٍ إِلَّا إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۚ وَإِن لَّمْ يَنتَهُوا عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ 2001:558:6014:31:1174:DC89:7267:6449 ( talk) 17:59, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Normally in a Wikipedia article the title term goes first, then related terms, then not directly related items, hence:
The term Holy Spirit is never used by Muslims and just causes confusion (ie. makes some people believe that Muslims agree with the Christian concept of Trinity) - 175.107.232.114 ( talk) 17:09, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
There seem to be two accepted terms in Arabic for The Holy Spirit, الروح القدس ar-rūḥ al-qudus, which is used here, and روح القدس rūḥ al-qudus.
The difference is primarily a grammatical one, in the first the word qudus is used as an adjective, and in the other it's used as a noun. But, I have also found that the former alternative is used in the Arabic Bible, while the latter is used in the Quran. Since this article is about The Holy Spirit in Islam, I think it would be more appropriate to use the term used in the Quran. There is also a problem with the transliteration of the word قدس into quddus, with gemination, instead of qudus, without gemination, which is the proper transliteration of the word. There might be some confusion with the word قدّوس quddūs, which means most holy.
Wazzafak ( talk) 12:45, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
The article states:
The intro says two things: that the Islam version of the HS is J (aka Gabriel) and also that its the same as the Christian view. The Christian view is that the HS is the third aspect of the Trinity; and not at all Gabriel.
Or so it seems to me.
Clarification?
William M. Connolley ( talk) 23:22, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Holy Spirit (Christianity) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 19:46, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Holy Spirit in Christianity which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 00:02, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
The "Military campaigns" is a common characteristic for the archangel jabrail, but I think not of "the holy spirit", except one hold them as the same. This might be the case for several scholars, especially whose who reject most anthropomorphic characteristics of angels, but the main characteristics of "holy spirit" is revelation, while Jabrail is both revelation and "destruction" (also for Sodom & Gomorrah, War, ...), while the "Holy Spirit" is not. Some sources even consider the "Ruh" (as long I do not confuse something here, is seems to be the same as the "Holy Spirit" (Ruh al Qudus)) as another angels above Jabrail, or the Ruh something that Jabrail is entrustet with. My suggestion is, to move this section to Gabriel#Islam?-- VenusFeuerFalle ( talk) 11:39, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
First of all, according to the wiki article islam and abortion, while abortion is a hotly debated subject in Islamic jurisprudence, "the majority of Muslim scholars permit abortion, although they differ on the stage of fetal development beyond which it becomes prohibited."; second, the given Quranic passages do not explicitly say anything that contradicts this statement; third, the entire espousal of this emotionally charged and singular view is irrelevant to the article anyways. Extrabadfish ( talk) 02:36, 29 July 2011 (UTC)extrabadfish
I did not find anything related to Gabriel or a spirit in Genesis 18. Might this refer to Genesis 16? In there at least I can see references to "the angel of the Lord". If you know about this, please correct. God Head /*26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [1]
For people who believe the bible Genesis Chapter 1 verse #26 God said "Let Us make man in our image,after our likeness"/ [2] This shows God was speaking to another part of being The Creator. This has to be at least His Son Jesus. This in my view shows there is a God Head of at least 2 forms. I believe three because when God and/or Jesus said something The Holy Spirit performed the action. Fishenfun ( talk) 02:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC)Fishenfunx
References
I would argue that the Allah of the Quran IS a Trinity, as the text speaks for itself. In Muslim exegesis, however, this is explained away via the application of the name of Angel Gabriel to the Holy Spirit, even though the Spirit of Allah has all the attributes of God, such as the ability to create life and omnipresence, and is never associated with an angel or with any other created entity which is subordinate to God. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.158.14 ( talk) 00:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I am not going to argue what the concept of Allah is in the Quran; but the English translation of the Quran used here has a flaw. It translates the passages regarding the beliefs of others as "Trinity", however this is not the word used by Arabic Christians, in fact the word used is better translated "Three" a pantheon concept of Allah held by some sects in Arabia at the time of the Prophet.It is misleading in an English text to use such a translation. It is obviously the bias of the translated rather than faithful study of the text. A comparison can be made by looking at the Arabic text of the Quran and Arabic Christian documents regarding the "Trinity" such as the Canons of their Churches User:Alaxdar —Preceding undated comment added 18:23, 5 September 2011 (UTC).
That is a mistranslation of 5 Al-Maeda 73, it does not use those words.إِلَـٰهٌ Ila is אל El in Hebrew, and means a God, اللَّهَ Allah is אלהי Elohey in Hebrew, the Highest El, and he is Holy Spirit, and to put the Highest El the third of three, is the blasphemy against Holy Spirit that Jesus said has no forgiveness in this life, or the life to come like Muhammad is saying. You are are each an El, a group is plural El, אלהים Elohim. Speaking of Jerusalem from above as Christ Joseph's Bride, and speaking of the Prophet like unto Moses Joseph as Elohim, speaking of Joseph's son Jesus as the High Priest like unto Aaron, calling the Father and Son each, an El, putting Holy Spirit Yahweh our Creator as the third of three is blasphemy. I am the Prophet Joseph. Psalm 82:6 אני־אמרתי אלהים אתם ובני עליון כלכם׃ "I said, You are Elohim, and my son Highest all you!
.5 Al-Maeda 73
"Have disbelieved who say that Allah is the third of three and no El but one El, although not finished what they say to the elders who disbelieve their painful torment."
لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلَاثَةٍ ۘ وَمَا مِنْ إِلَـٰهٍ إِلَّا إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۚ وَإِن لَّمْ يَنتَهُوا عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ 2001:558:6014:31:1174:DC89:7267:6449 ( talk) 17:59, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Normally in a Wikipedia article the title term goes first, then related terms, then not directly related items, hence:
The term Holy Spirit is never used by Muslims and just causes confusion (ie. makes some people believe that Muslims agree with the Christian concept of Trinity) - 175.107.232.114 ( talk) 17:09, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
There seem to be two accepted terms in Arabic for The Holy Spirit, الروح القدس ar-rūḥ al-qudus, which is used here, and روح القدس rūḥ al-qudus.
The difference is primarily a grammatical one, in the first the word qudus is used as an adjective, and in the other it's used as a noun. But, I have also found that the former alternative is used in the Arabic Bible, while the latter is used in the Quran. Since this article is about The Holy Spirit in Islam, I think it would be more appropriate to use the term used in the Quran. There is also a problem with the transliteration of the word قدس into quddus, with gemination, instead of qudus, without gemination, which is the proper transliteration of the word. There might be some confusion with the word قدّوس quddūs, which means most holy.
Wazzafak ( talk) 12:45, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
The article states:
The intro says two things: that the Islam version of the HS is J (aka Gabriel) and also that its the same as the Christian view. The Christian view is that the HS is the third aspect of the Trinity; and not at all Gabriel.
Or so it seems to me.
Clarification?
William M. Connolley ( talk) 23:22, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Holy Spirit (Christianity) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 19:46, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Holy Spirit in Christianity which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 00:02, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
The "Military campaigns" is a common characteristic for the archangel jabrail, but I think not of "the holy spirit", except one hold them as the same. This might be the case for several scholars, especially whose who reject most anthropomorphic characteristics of angels, but the main characteristics of "holy spirit" is revelation, while Jabrail is both revelation and "destruction" (also for Sodom & Gomorrah, War, ...), while the "Holy Spirit" is not. Some sources even consider the "Ruh" (as long I do not confuse something here, is seems to be the same as the "Holy Spirit" (Ruh al Qudus)) as another angels above Jabrail, or the Ruh something that Jabrail is entrustet with. My suggestion is, to move this section to Gabriel#Islam?-- VenusFeuerFalle ( talk) 11:39, 3 February 2019 (UTC)