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This article has largely been edited by those that don't know anything about what hog dogging is actually about the entire article is a problem since even a controversial name is used. Hog dogging is the correct term, not baiting. Baiting has connotations of deliberate cruelty which is not the case with the (very necessary) sport and hunting style of hog dogging. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.88.118.128 ( talk) 01:44, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I have my doubts about this. Now, I'd be the first to admit that I know nothing about hog baiting,but logic suggests that injuries should be fairly common. Should this be changed? My research seems to confirm it, so for now I'm changing "The dogs are outfitted with kevlar chest and neck armor, and major injuries to either animal is not common in any case." to "The dogs are outfitted with kevlar chest and neck armor to guard against injury." Aya McCabre ( talk) 22:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Show your "research" then little girl. Don't pretend that you know more about this than me, (I'm the one that made those previous edits). Show me some real verifiable research from a source that didn't just decide that they were going to have a problem with the hunting style/sport of hog dogging and then look for things that other people with the same problem have said without providing any proof, I have been to hundreds of these contests over the years and I have yet to see ANY dog which sustained more than a superficial cut from a boar, nor have I ever (in a contest) seen a hog get anything more than a slight puncture wound from teeth.
This comment: "Hog dogging is the hunting style which is far more popular than the boar trials will ever be and is very vital to controlling the explosion of wild pigs in texas and the deep south, let there be a hog dogging article, nerdlits. Also calling this "baiting" when that's nothing of the kind doesn't make some sort of political point, that only points out how petty you are, whoever did that editing" was left in the article by someone who knows more about hog dogging than any of the other editors. Chrisrus ( talk) 15:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
The immensely popular southern hunting style of hog dogging, which is the hunting style of countering wild boar populations using hunting dogs rather than hog dogging trials (erroneously referred to in this article under the politically motivated and incorrect ""hog baiting"") deserves an article. Could we please keep edits of this article and the other article that I suggest creating limited to the experts that would actually have the skill to even put a catch vest on properly. I know that the southern type of people (read "redneck" if you will) who go out for this hunting style aren't exactly well represented among the most powerful thousand or so of Wikipedia's editors and so their views are not going to be well displayed, but that doesn't mean that in the vacuum of knowledge created by that fact that the idiotic, self-centered, and politically motivated views of those not in the know should try to fill the void. Remember the early days of the evolution article on Wikipedia, this article shouldn't be payback on those people.
I'm about to revert everything you just did tonight, but maybe not for the reason you may think. This article is supposed to be about Hog-baiting, and as such is one of many articles, Rat baiting, bear baiting, even human-baiting. What you have done is written an article about something else, much of it about hunting hogs with dogs. The article I'm reverting this to has this problem as well, but at least it's in part about hog-baiting. So after reverting, I'm going to remove everything that isn't about hog-baiting. You are more than welcome to contribute to articles such as catch dog, or to create a new article. Chrisrus ( talk) 05:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Since this is the article that pops up when one searches for hog dogging, this is the hog dogging article rather than the far less common and less popular (illegal everywhere in the free world) "baiting". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brickell4 ( talk • contribs) 05:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Second, we'll need another article about hog-baiting to go with our articles about rat-baiting, monkey-baiting, and so on and so forth. I think we can use the history tab to find the way this article used to be, an article about hog-baiting, before someone added the "-dogging" information thereby conflating the two, and then we can use that to create the hog-baiting article if we want. Second, once the two phenomena are separated and we have one article about the one thing and another about the other, you might want to make this a good article on hog-dogging. WP:GOOD articles have pictures and such, but more importantly they have citations. There may be sources you can cite and other stuff you could use. Bay dog and Catch dog come to mind, and there may be more about hunting pigs with dogs. Should there be one article about hunting pigs with dogs and another about hog-dogging? The way you've written this one it's sometimes seems to conflate the concepts of pig hunting and hog dogging, but maybe that's ok. Chrisrus ( talk) 06:56, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
There isn't such a thing as hog baiting in the modern English speaking world, I can promise you that; if the article "hog baiting" were written about old times, other countries, or even if the article tried to inaccurately <read further> claim that hog dog trials are a form of hog baiting I wouldn't have a problem with that. However, the article goes out of the way to stamp out any view that opposes modern northern liberal thinking (I notice that somebody even eliminated my link that I posted which contained actual statistics about the hog problem in Texas and the importance that well trained dogs play in combating the problem.)
Furthermore, "hog dog rodeos" (which is the name of the narrowly defined subject of wikipedia's fake article, "hog baiting"), are entirely different from hog baiting or any of the many animals that have been baited in the long human history of causing suffering to animals for human entertainment. The entire point of hog dog rodeos is only to show off which are the most capable dogs, never to cause undue pain to the pig. The animals are not fighting. Instead in most cases these are bay competitions where the dogs simply bark at the pigs and must get them to be still (rather like a herding competition between sheep and those small black and white dogs). And secondly even in a catch dog competition, THE ANIMALS DO NOT FIGHT, instead: the boar is released, two trained dogs wearing kevlar vests and collars go in and grab the pig by the ears, and then a person holds the pig by the back legs while others release the dogs from the ears and then as soon as the dogs are removed the pig is let go. I have never ever seen a pig come to any harm in the ring, (although very often the pigs are killed later and their meat is donated to local poor families). ALWAYS in any sort of a "baiting" contest the point is to cause pain and destruction to animals for entertainment. Hog dogging rodeos are instead very much like other types of rodeos where a dog must skillfully subdue a pig, instead of a man on horseback with a rope subduing a baby cow.
P.S. This really is showing how you probably shouldn't be editing this article at all. Hog dogging and pig hunting are the same thing (at least google the topic if you are going to edit), also a part of hog dogging though are Hog Dog rodeos which are the enclosure contests of various types dog skills useful in hog dogging in the field. And thank you I would appreciate help on the "move" tab. ;)
I am a great admirer of wikipedia and frankly I think the wikimedia foundation is one of monumental things to come about from web 2.0 (I'm currently in the seeding stage of my own project using Mediawiki, so I'm very Greatful;P). That's partly the reason why the initial way that this article was edited offends me so deeply, instead of trying to educate about something that actually happens and portray that in a nonjudgmental way instead a misguided "misdirect" (I'm not sure of the proper term) equated a passionate part of tens of thousands of modern day American's lives with the baiting days of olden times. The Nambla (North American Man Boy Love Association) had a less harsh page that's ridiculous, and to the best of my knowledge Nambla's page also didn't carry the type of exaggeration that was on this page to begin with. Boar baiting is as extinct in the western world as any of the other types of baiting (with the exception of cock fighting and dog fighting if you want to include those under the baiting title). Frankly I have never actually heard of hog baiting ever being that popular (off hand research I've done over the years) as compared to badgers, bulls, bears, ducks, or rats (baiting was more a sport of the lower masses and at the time boar hunting was something which was only carried about by the upper crust on gigantic estates, so that's kind of natural that there wouldn't be a lot of mixing between those ends). And sonny, are you really trying to imply that I am not an expert at this? ;) Surely you jest, good sir. I thank you for the tutorial on the move tab, I'll use this page as a reference for that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brickell4 ( talk • contribs) 10:54, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
The problem is, all we pretty much do here on Wikipedia is to basically report to the readers what's available in things that meet this description: WP:RS. If you use Google's "Scholar" for "hog-dogging" however, all Google Scholar returns here now is this:
I found it for in full and for free by doing a regular Google search, here: http://lawreview.richmond.edu/animal-law/.
It's a 2009 University of Richmond Law Review Association article entitled "ANIMAL LAW" from 2009summarizing laws in Virginia, mostly stuff about the techincal definition of stuff like "adequate water" and the fact that in Virginia cockfighting is a misdemeanor if you don't charge admission, but a felony is you do. Stuff like that. Point being, it's not about hog-dogging and isn't written by an expert on hog-dogging in detail, just an expert on Virginia animal law. But it does includes a definition of hog-dogging, and it says that hog-dogging is "an animal fight that involves putting a hog in a ring with pit bull." So, in Virginia, if your event is just bay dogs, that's ok and not illegal, but if you use catch dogs in some kind of "event", which I donno but I think is probably something people come to watch, it's called "hog-dogging". So at least officially in Virgina, "hog-dogging" events are illegal, but bay dog events aren't concidered "hog-dogging". That's just one definition, maybe. Maybe elsewhere, you don't need catch dogs for it to be hog dogging.
That's all I could find from peer-reviewed scholarly journals tonight by using Google Scholar. Chrisrus ( talk) 05:35, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Does this really seem like the type of subject to you where academic researchers in Virginia (a state which doesn't have as much of a hog problem) would know a lot about? I think the fact that this refers to all catch dogs as "pitbulls" pretty much sums up the lack of knowledge. Pit bulls can be used as catch dogs, but I wouldn't say they are even in the majority of dog breeds used (Dogos are my favorite since they are completely non dog agressive ;)). I as well as millions of active hog dogging enthusiasts in this country, as well as overseas, understand what hog dogging is, so the fact that lawyers in Virginia don't know what their talking about doesn't affect me in the slightest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brickell4 ( talk • contribs) 10:28, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I don't know how WP:RS this, http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/hog_dogging/ dictionary site is, but check out the sources that it uses. It's pretty interesting, don't miss the extensive notes after the definition I'm sure you won't like. Chrisrus ( talk) 06:39, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
No offense, but I'm not really that impressed with this find of yours, i.e. a very short time ago somebody referencing wikipedia about this subject could have been equally mislead. There are millions of websites run by millions of different people, you don't have to have a degree or any experience to pretend that you know about a subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brickell4 ( talk • contribs) 10:20, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, we're going to have to cite this stuff somehow, because much as you seem to think it should be, the authority of some user named Brickell4 is never going to be enough. This citation says "Though both are often called hog-dogging, some participants make a distinction between hog-baying, in which the dogs are only permitted to howl, bark, and bay to keep the hogs in check, and hog-dogging, in which the dogs are permitted to fight and bite the hogs. The former activity is usually part of a hog dog rodeo and the latter is not." Then it gives it's own citations. You may be frustrated by the obviousness that I don't know much about hog dogging compared to you, but you don't seem to know much about writing Wikipedia articles and how it's supposed to be done. So between us we can fix this up. Do you have a picture or two? We can't have too many, just the best, most informative ones. Chrisrus ( talk) 13:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Brickell, if this were an "ask an expert" website or a blog or something like that, your personal opinions and experience would no doubt be a valued resource. Here on Wikipedia, we are required to go by what is published in reliable sources, as I can see Chrisus has been trying to explain to you for some time now. I'm sorry if that doesn't comport with your idea of how things ought to be, but that is how things work here. Verification of content through the use of reliable sources is one of the five pillars of Wikipedia, the core principles under which this site is operated, so we can't just go ignoring it if it happens to be inconvenient. Beeblebrox ( talk) 05:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
Beetlejuice, did I fucking ask ur opinion on anything? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Brickell4 (
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contribs)
You don't have to ask my opinion, this website is run through collaboration, anyone is free to participate in any content discussion they wish. You may find you get along better if you stop being so openly hostile towards other users. that may play on other websites, but it is not appropriate for a collaborative encylopdia project and will only lead to more problems. Beeblebrox ( talk)
This article, http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-05-hog-dogging_x.htm, seems to be usable. Although it first gives the Anti-hog-dogging case, it does also give the hog-doggers their chance to make the case that this is not the same as boar-baiting and takes a pretty neutral tone when the reporter is speaking. We could probably use it to cite some of the things in this article. And please, before you tell me that it's not good enough, at least I'm trying to cite some of the stuff you've added to the article. I don't see you helping. The only citation you've provided isn't even about hog-dogging but about the feral hog problem. Don't get me wrong, it's useable for that one statement but everything else is uncited and I feel like I'm trying to help you and keep this hog-dogging article and so you should thank me for even an imperfect citation as you've got like almost nothing. So again, have you got any association manual or rulebook from some governing authority of hog-dogging or some "Pig Hunter" magazine article about the arena events or anything with any kind of authority? YOu're the expert here, not me, you should be able to come up with something. As it stands, anybody could just come along and delete the whole thing and there couldn't be a damn thing we could do about it so move quickly with some citations or you're going to lose the whole thing, and it won't necessarily be because, as you will claim, that a bunch of snobby northern liberals hate you, but simply because we've got a poorly cited article and so there's no way we as simple Wikipedians can check up on anything. Please agree that we can't allow uncited article like this for long or else people would say that we write articles based on the say-so of some nameless faceless credentialless username who seemed to know what he was talking about. So I ask you again, should we use this USA today article to cite what we can of the article or can you come up with anything better? Chrisrus ( talk) 07:26, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
Activating
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12:23, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
A hog-dog rodeo, as this article says, is an event which features bay dog trials. Boar baiting, in contrast, is an event in which dogs and pigs are pitted against each other to fight it was popular in England a long time ago. Bay dogs, as the article says, are not supposed to touch the pig. They don't make contact with the pig. If they don't even make contact, how can it be boar-batiing. Hog-dog rodeo is different from boar-baiting.
However, sometimes, catch dog trials are featured in hog-dog rodeos. Catch dogs are supposed to actually catch and hold the pig. This is closer to boar-baiting, and people could reasonably maybe say that it is boar-baiting. However, not all hog-dog rodeos feature catch dog events. Therefore, even if catch dog events are boar-baiting, as few hog-dog rodeos feature catch dog events, few hog-dog rodeos can be said to feature as a part of them any boar-baiting.
Also, even those hog-dog rodeos that feature catch dog events couldn't be considered the same as boar-baiting unless that was all they did. If much or all of the events at a hog-dog were catch-dog events, that specific hog-dog rodeo would maybe be the same as a boar-baiting event. However, there is no sign of any hog-dog rodeo that consists of only catch dog events and no bay dog events.
However, it is not clear that a catch-dog event really is boar baiting either. Boar baiting is a sort of arranged spectator fight between animals, where the idea is for the animals to battle it out. But catch dogs are expected to simply hold and immobilize the pig, so that the nuisance animal man can come along and hog-tie it or dispatch it right then and there, and a trial simply is practice for this activity. So it's not even clear that even catch dog events are nothing but boar-baiting. Chrisrus ( talk) 21:21, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Dog baiting is setting game dogs against a chained or confined animal for sport. The dogs bite, and tear to subdue the opposing animal by incapacitating or killing it. Baiting is a blood sport used for entertainment and gambling.
(edit conflict)
A more reasonable offer on your part would be for a redirect to a subsection of this article specifically about catch dog events. But as bay dog events constitute the bulk of what a hog-dog rodeo is, one can't rightly say a hog-dog rodeo is a catch dog event.
That might work but an event in which catch dogs immobilize pigs by the ears and then a man comes along and hog-ties it and someone calls "time" and it's on to the next man/dog team competitors one isn't same as an event pitting dogs against a boar, bear or whatever and to see which will win, the dogs or the boar. There's a qualitative difference between catch dog trials and baiting (animals).
I offer you this: include this article in the category "Animal Cruelty". No one will argue that those pigs aren't really unhappy, to put it mildly, during these events, so if enjoyment at the panic of another is cruelty, then all will agree this qualifies for that category. You could do the same with the article Pig scramble. But these events are not the same as old-time English-style boar baiting, something Wikipedia seems not to have an article about at the moment. Chrisrus ( talk) 20:35, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
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This article has largely been edited by those that don't know anything about what hog dogging is actually about the entire article is a problem since even a controversial name is used. Hog dogging is the correct term, not baiting. Baiting has connotations of deliberate cruelty which is not the case with the (very necessary) sport and hunting style of hog dogging. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.88.118.128 ( talk) 01:44, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I have my doubts about this. Now, I'd be the first to admit that I know nothing about hog baiting,but logic suggests that injuries should be fairly common. Should this be changed? My research seems to confirm it, so for now I'm changing "The dogs are outfitted with kevlar chest and neck armor, and major injuries to either animal is not common in any case." to "The dogs are outfitted with kevlar chest and neck armor to guard against injury." Aya McCabre ( talk) 22:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Show your "research" then little girl. Don't pretend that you know more about this than me, (I'm the one that made those previous edits). Show me some real verifiable research from a source that didn't just decide that they were going to have a problem with the hunting style/sport of hog dogging and then look for things that other people with the same problem have said without providing any proof, I have been to hundreds of these contests over the years and I have yet to see ANY dog which sustained more than a superficial cut from a boar, nor have I ever (in a contest) seen a hog get anything more than a slight puncture wound from teeth.
This comment: "Hog dogging is the hunting style which is far more popular than the boar trials will ever be and is very vital to controlling the explosion of wild pigs in texas and the deep south, let there be a hog dogging article, nerdlits. Also calling this "baiting" when that's nothing of the kind doesn't make some sort of political point, that only points out how petty you are, whoever did that editing" was left in the article by someone who knows more about hog dogging than any of the other editors. Chrisrus ( talk) 15:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
The immensely popular southern hunting style of hog dogging, which is the hunting style of countering wild boar populations using hunting dogs rather than hog dogging trials (erroneously referred to in this article under the politically motivated and incorrect ""hog baiting"") deserves an article. Could we please keep edits of this article and the other article that I suggest creating limited to the experts that would actually have the skill to even put a catch vest on properly. I know that the southern type of people (read "redneck" if you will) who go out for this hunting style aren't exactly well represented among the most powerful thousand or so of Wikipedia's editors and so their views are not going to be well displayed, but that doesn't mean that in the vacuum of knowledge created by that fact that the idiotic, self-centered, and politically motivated views of those not in the know should try to fill the void. Remember the early days of the evolution article on Wikipedia, this article shouldn't be payback on those people.
I'm about to revert everything you just did tonight, but maybe not for the reason you may think. This article is supposed to be about Hog-baiting, and as such is one of many articles, Rat baiting, bear baiting, even human-baiting. What you have done is written an article about something else, much of it about hunting hogs with dogs. The article I'm reverting this to has this problem as well, but at least it's in part about hog-baiting. So after reverting, I'm going to remove everything that isn't about hog-baiting. You are more than welcome to contribute to articles such as catch dog, or to create a new article. Chrisrus ( talk) 05:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Since this is the article that pops up when one searches for hog dogging, this is the hog dogging article rather than the far less common and less popular (illegal everywhere in the free world) "baiting". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brickell4 ( talk • contribs) 05:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Second, we'll need another article about hog-baiting to go with our articles about rat-baiting, monkey-baiting, and so on and so forth. I think we can use the history tab to find the way this article used to be, an article about hog-baiting, before someone added the "-dogging" information thereby conflating the two, and then we can use that to create the hog-baiting article if we want. Second, once the two phenomena are separated and we have one article about the one thing and another about the other, you might want to make this a good article on hog-dogging. WP:GOOD articles have pictures and such, but more importantly they have citations. There may be sources you can cite and other stuff you could use. Bay dog and Catch dog come to mind, and there may be more about hunting pigs with dogs. Should there be one article about hunting pigs with dogs and another about hog-dogging? The way you've written this one it's sometimes seems to conflate the concepts of pig hunting and hog dogging, but maybe that's ok. Chrisrus ( talk) 06:56, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
There isn't such a thing as hog baiting in the modern English speaking world, I can promise you that; if the article "hog baiting" were written about old times, other countries, or even if the article tried to inaccurately <read further> claim that hog dog trials are a form of hog baiting I wouldn't have a problem with that. However, the article goes out of the way to stamp out any view that opposes modern northern liberal thinking (I notice that somebody even eliminated my link that I posted which contained actual statistics about the hog problem in Texas and the importance that well trained dogs play in combating the problem.)
Furthermore, "hog dog rodeos" (which is the name of the narrowly defined subject of wikipedia's fake article, "hog baiting"), are entirely different from hog baiting or any of the many animals that have been baited in the long human history of causing suffering to animals for human entertainment. The entire point of hog dog rodeos is only to show off which are the most capable dogs, never to cause undue pain to the pig. The animals are not fighting. Instead in most cases these are bay competitions where the dogs simply bark at the pigs and must get them to be still (rather like a herding competition between sheep and those small black and white dogs). And secondly even in a catch dog competition, THE ANIMALS DO NOT FIGHT, instead: the boar is released, two trained dogs wearing kevlar vests and collars go in and grab the pig by the ears, and then a person holds the pig by the back legs while others release the dogs from the ears and then as soon as the dogs are removed the pig is let go. I have never ever seen a pig come to any harm in the ring, (although very often the pigs are killed later and their meat is donated to local poor families). ALWAYS in any sort of a "baiting" contest the point is to cause pain and destruction to animals for entertainment. Hog dogging rodeos are instead very much like other types of rodeos where a dog must skillfully subdue a pig, instead of a man on horseback with a rope subduing a baby cow.
P.S. This really is showing how you probably shouldn't be editing this article at all. Hog dogging and pig hunting are the same thing (at least google the topic if you are going to edit), also a part of hog dogging though are Hog Dog rodeos which are the enclosure contests of various types dog skills useful in hog dogging in the field. And thank you I would appreciate help on the "move" tab. ;)
I am a great admirer of wikipedia and frankly I think the wikimedia foundation is one of monumental things to come about from web 2.0 (I'm currently in the seeding stage of my own project using Mediawiki, so I'm very Greatful;P). That's partly the reason why the initial way that this article was edited offends me so deeply, instead of trying to educate about something that actually happens and portray that in a nonjudgmental way instead a misguided "misdirect" (I'm not sure of the proper term) equated a passionate part of tens of thousands of modern day American's lives with the baiting days of olden times. The Nambla (North American Man Boy Love Association) had a less harsh page that's ridiculous, and to the best of my knowledge Nambla's page also didn't carry the type of exaggeration that was on this page to begin with. Boar baiting is as extinct in the western world as any of the other types of baiting (with the exception of cock fighting and dog fighting if you want to include those under the baiting title). Frankly I have never actually heard of hog baiting ever being that popular (off hand research I've done over the years) as compared to badgers, bulls, bears, ducks, or rats (baiting was more a sport of the lower masses and at the time boar hunting was something which was only carried about by the upper crust on gigantic estates, so that's kind of natural that there wouldn't be a lot of mixing between those ends). And sonny, are you really trying to imply that I am not an expert at this? ;) Surely you jest, good sir. I thank you for the tutorial on the move tab, I'll use this page as a reference for that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brickell4 ( talk • contribs) 10:54, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
The problem is, all we pretty much do here on Wikipedia is to basically report to the readers what's available in things that meet this description: WP:RS. If you use Google's "Scholar" for "hog-dogging" however, all Google Scholar returns here now is this:
I found it for in full and for free by doing a regular Google search, here: http://lawreview.richmond.edu/animal-law/.
It's a 2009 University of Richmond Law Review Association article entitled "ANIMAL LAW" from 2009summarizing laws in Virginia, mostly stuff about the techincal definition of stuff like "adequate water" and the fact that in Virginia cockfighting is a misdemeanor if you don't charge admission, but a felony is you do. Stuff like that. Point being, it's not about hog-dogging and isn't written by an expert on hog-dogging in detail, just an expert on Virginia animal law. But it does includes a definition of hog-dogging, and it says that hog-dogging is "an animal fight that involves putting a hog in a ring with pit bull." So, in Virginia, if your event is just bay dogs, that's ok and not illegal, but if you use catch dogs in some kind of "event", which I donno but I think is probably something people come to watch, it's called "hog-dogging". So at least officially in Virgina, "hog-dogging" events are illegal, but bay dog events aren't concidered "hog-dogging". That's just one definition, maybe. Maybe elsewhere, you don't need catch dogs for it to be hog dogging.
That's all I could find from peer-reviewed scholarly journals tonight by using Google Scholar. Chrisrus ( talk) 05:35, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Does this really seem like the type of subject to you where academic researchers in Virginia (a state which doesn't have as much of a hog problem) would know a lot about? I think the fact that this refers to all catch dogs as "pitbulls" pretty much sums up the lack of knowledge. Pit bulls can be used as catch dogs, but I wouldn't say they are even in the majority of dog breeds used (Dogos are my favorite since they are completely non dog agressive ;)). I as well as millions of active hog dogging enthusiasts in this country, as well as overseas, understand what hog dogging is, so the fact that lawyers in Virginia don't know what their talking about doesn't affect me in the slightest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brickell4 ( talk • contribs) 10:28, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I don't know how WP:RS this, http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/hog_dogging/ dictionary site is, but check out the sources that it uses. It's pretty interesting, don't miss the extensive notes after the definition I'm sure you won't like. Chrisrus ( talk) 06:39, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
No offense, but I'm not really that impressed with this find of yours, i.e. a very short time ago somebody referencing wikipedia about this subject could have been equally mislead. There are millions of websites run by millions of different people, you don't have to have a degree or any experience to pretend that you know about a subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brickell4 ( talk • contribs) 10:20, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, we're going to have to cite this stuff somehow, because much as you seem to think it should be, the authority of some user named Brickell4 is never going to be enough. This citation says "Though both are often called hog-dogging, some participants make a distinction between hog-baying, in which the dogs are only permitted to howl, bark, and bay to keep the hogs in check, and hog-dogging, in which the dogs are permitted to fight and bite the hogs. The former activity is usually part of a hog dog rodeo and the latter is not." Then it gives it's own citations. You may be frustrated by the obviousness that I don't know much about hog dogging compared to you, but you don't seem to know much about writing Wikipedia articles and how it's supposed to be done. So between us we can fix this up. Do you have a picture or two? We can't have too many, just the best, most informative ones. Chrisrus ( talk) 13:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Brickell, if this were an "ask an expert" website or a blog or something like that, your personal opinions and experience would no doubt be a valued resource. Here on Wikipedia, we are required to go by what is published in reliable sources, as I can see Chrisus has been trying to explain to you for some time now. I'm sorry if that doesn't comport with your idea of how things ought to be, but that is how things work here. Verification of content through the use of reliable sources is one of the five pillars of Wikipedia, the core principles under which this site is operated, so we can't just go ignoring it if it happens to be inconvenient. Beeblebrox ( talk) 05:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
Beetlejuice, did I fucking ask ur opinion on anything? — Preceding
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Brickell4 (
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You don't have to ask my opinion, this website is run through collaboration, anyone is free to participate in any content discussion they wish. You may find you get along better if you stop being so openly hostile towards other users. that may play on other websites, but it is not appropriate for a collaborative encylopdia project and will only lead to more problems. Beeblebrox ( talk)
This article, http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-05-hog-dogging_x.htm, seems to be usable. Although it first gives the Anti-hog-dogging case, it does also give the hog-doggers their chance to make the case that this is not the same as boar-baiting and takes a pretty neutral tone when the reporter is speaking. We could probably use it to cite some of the things in this article. And please, before you tell me that it's not good enough, at least I'm trying to cite some of the stuff you've added to the article. I don't see you helping. The only citation you've provided isn't even about hog-dogging but about the feral hog problem. Don't get me wrong, it's useable for that one statement but everything else is uncited and I feel like I'm trying to help you and keep this hog-dogging article and so you should thank me for even an imperfect citation as you've got like almost nothing. So again, have you got any association manual or rulebook from some governing authority of hog-dogging or some "Pig Hunter" magazine article about the arena events or anything with any kind of authority? YOu're the expert here, not me, you should be able to come up with something. As it stands, anybody could just come along and delete the whole thing and there couldn't be a damn thing we could do about it so move quickly with some citations or you're going to lose the whole thing, and it won't necessarily be because, as you will claim, that a bunch of snobby northern liberals hate you, but simply because we've got a poorly cited article and so there's no way we as simple Wikipedians can check up on anything. Please agree that we can't allow uncited article like this for long or else people would say that we write articles based on the say-so of some nameless faceless credentialless username who seemed to know what he was talking about. So I ask you again, should we use this USA today article to cite what we can of the article or can you come up with anything better? Chrisrus ( talk) 07:26, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
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Ankit Maity
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12:23, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
A hog-dog rodeo, as this article says, is an event which features bay dog trials. Boar baiting, in contrast, is an event in which dogs and pigs are pitted against each other to fight it was popular in England a long time ago. Bay dogs, as the article says, are not supposed to touch the pig. They don't make contact with the pig. If they don't even make contact, how can it be boar-batiing. Hog-dog rodeo is different from boar-baiting.
However, sometimes, catch dog trials are featured in hog-dog rodeos. Catch dogs are supposed to actually catch and hold the pig. This is closer to boar-baiting, and people could reasonably maybe say that it is boar-baiting. However, not all hog-dog rodeos feature catch dog events. Therefore, even if catch dog events are boar-baiting, as few hog-dog rodeos feature catch dog events, few hog-dog rodeos can be said to feature as a part of them any boar-baiting.
Also, even those hog-dog rodeos that feature catch dog events couldn't be considered the same as boar-baiting unless that was all they did. If much or all of the events at a hog-dog were catch-dog events, that specific hog-dog rodeo would maybe be the same as a boar-baiting event. However, there is no sign of any hog-dog rodeo that consists of only catch dog events and no bay dog events.
However, it is not clear that a catch-dog event really is boar baiting either. Boar baiting is a sort of arranged spectator fight between animals, where the idea is for the animals to battle it out. But catch dogs are expected to simply hold and immobilize the pig, so that the nuisance animal man can come along and hog-tie it or dispatch it right then and there, and a trial simply is practice for this activity. So it's not even clear that even catch dog events are nothing but boar-baiting. Chrisrus ( talk) 21:21, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Dog baiting is setting game dogs against a chained or confined animal for sport. The dogs bite, and tear to subdue the opposing animal by incapacitating or killing it. Baiting is a blood sport used for entertainment and gambling.
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A more reasonable offer on your part would be for a redirect to a subsection of this article specifically about catch dog events. But as bay dog events constitute the bulk of what a hog-dog rodeo is, one can't rightly say a hog-dog rodeo is a catch dog event.
That might work but an event in which catch dogs immobilize pigs by the ears and then a man comes along and hog-ties it and someone calls "time" and it's on to the next man/dog team competitors one isn't same as an event pitting dogs against a boar, bear or whatever and to see which will win, the dogs or the boar. There's a qualitative difference between catch dog trials and baiting (animals).
I offer you this: include this article in the category "Animal Cruelty". No one will argue that those pigs aren't really unhappy, to put it mildly, during these events, so if enjoyment at the panic of another is cruelty, then all will agree this qualifies for that category. You could do the same with the article Pig scramble. But these events are not the same as old-time English-style boar baiting, something Wikipedia seems not to have an article about at the moment. Chrisrus ( talk) 20:35, 14 July 2013 (UTC)