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After going through the article, here are some of my thoughts on how we can prune this article to about half of its present length.
well feel free to comment and modify this. talk , kaal 05:15, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
See, for example, Talk:History of science/Summary style; the prose which has found a home in other articles has been pruned. Please feel free to add items, or to move text to other articles as you see fit. Ancheta Wis 08:49, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC) -- Perhaps this summary could be the overview section in the navbox. Please feel free up add to it. It is addressed to the ADD audience (lots of pictures), but is taken from the main article, which is currently over 66KB, and growing. I find the main article easy to read, but maybe thats just me. Certainly, the length is not onerous right now. The Summary-style view is less than 30KB in the editor. Ancheta Wis 11:06, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I did some more shortening work and streamlining and the article is now 39 KB large. Much better than it used to be. Ancheta, what do you think still needs to be done to the article? I think the sections on physics and chemistry could be further shortened a little but otherwise I don't know. I believe this is getting near FA standard. -- Cugel 07:24, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
Looking at Obsolete scientific theory, I find some things missing from our treatment of the history of science and pre-science:
-- Beland 06:08, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
So we are currently presenting things chronologically under huge headings like "physics" and "chemistry". I think it would be a lot easier to follow if we consolidate around threads in the same subfield. For example, in physics, we shouldn't go back and forth between unrelated things, like thermodynamics and electricity. In trying to break things down into fine-grained threads, I've noticed that there's a lot of splitting, merging, and meandering of a subfield between e.g. physics and chemistry. I'm not sure if that means that the major field headings are too problematic to keep...whatever makes things coherent and avoids too much duplication of material.
Below is a very quickly thrown together partial outline to give an idea of what I mean. -- Beland 05:58, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The following section "Granularity and subthreads" is the list from Beland:
Beland and I propose a series of samplers, which trace an idea in a few words, of wide scope, intended to entice an ADD reader into an article. The idea is that a sampler could be placed at a standard spot in the History of science article, with content that rotates on some basis. A sampler addresses a difficulty with adding even more content to the main article. We could write some prose such as:
No foreseeable limit to the items. The prose is not meant to be a permanent part of the main article, only the location of the sampler would remain constant. But maybe if the prose were to be accepted into a child article, then it might live on.
While the pruning effort has addressed one of the big issues raised during the first FAC, the other objection questioned the completeness of this article. Before this article goes back for another attempt at FA status I would like to ask "Are there any other fields of study that need to be included?".
Two possible canidates are Library science and military science. I personally feel library science is as much organizational philosophy and management as anything. Military science, on the other hand, probably has as much claim to inclusion as political science. I am not saying either of these should be included, but to address potential completeness concerns we probably need a discussion. -- Allen3 talk 22:39, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
I think the list in the article Science is a good guide for what fields should be included. I added library and military science there. I think for the broad overview, it might not be a bad idea to lump all the computer and information sciences together...library science is something of a subset of information retrieval, though like every subfield or interdisciplinary field it has its own community of practitioners.
Looking at the current state of the info box, I think we may have too much subfield proliferation. I think the navbox should be used to tie together all the top-level subarticles, but subsubarticles should not be listed there. Otherwise, it gets too long. So there should probably be only one main article linked for health sciences and medicine, which itself summarizes the histories of the subfields. There's not enough room in the main "History of science" article to do anything but perhaps list the subsubfields by way of linking to the subsubarticles. I would say the same for earth sciences, which overlaps a lot with physics. "Communications studies" is not notable enough to be included here, I don't think. It also overlaps with psychology and information science, so any earth-shattering developments there should get coverage elsewhere already. Military science is OK to add, I guess, since it seems so different from anything else here. Planetary science drifts between earth sciences and astronomy, so I'm not sure about that. There are a number of enviroment-related sciences; perhaps there should be a "lump" for them as well. History is not a science; it belongs in the humanities, so "historiography" definitely does not belong in this series. I'll turn it into a See Also link.
Also note the section on "Missing material" above, which outlines some things which should probably be mentioned in the sections we already include. -- Beland 05:05, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The section on Greek science was moved to a proper page in this series. Ancheta Wis 11:13, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
I added a small section on greek science. Where was it moved? I think it's wrong to limit greek contribution to science to Aristotle, and then conclude that the greek were pre-scientific, completely ignoring the impressive achievements of the third century B.C.. For sure my contribution can be greatly improved. Carlo Marchiori 15:25, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 8 |
After going through the article, here are some of my thoughts on how we can prune this article to about half of its present length.
well feel free to comment and modify this. talk , kaal 05:15, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
See, for example, Talk:History of science/Summary style; the prose which has found a home in other articles has been pruned. Please feel free to add items, or to move text to other articles as you see fit. Ancheta Wis 08:49, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC) -- Perhaps this summary could be the overview section in the navbox. Please feel free up add to it. It is addressed to the ADD audience (lots of pictures), but is taken from the main article, which is currently over 66KB, and growing. I find the main article easy to read, but maybe thats just me. Certainly, the length is not onerous right now. The Summary-style view is less than 30KB in the editor. Ancheta Wis 11:06, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I did some more shortening work and streamlining and the article is now 39 KB large. Much better than it used to be. Ancheta, what do you think still needs to be done to the article? I think the sections on physics and chemistry could be further shortened a little but otherwise I don't know. I believe this is getting near FA standard. -- Cugel 07:24, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
Looking at Obsolete scientific theory, I find some things missing from our treatment of the history of science and pre-science:
-- Beland 06:08, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
So we are currently presenting things chronologically under huge headings like "physics" and "chemistry". I think it would be a lot easier to follow if we consolidate around threads in the same subfield. For example, in physics, we shouldn't go back and forth between unrelated things, like thermodynamics and electricity. In trying to break things down into fine-grained threads, I've noticed that there's a lot of splitting, merging, and meandering of a subfield between e.g. physics and chemistry. I'm not sure if that means that the major field headings are too problematic to keep...whatever makes things coherent and avoids too much duplication of material.
Below is a very quickly thrown together partial outline to give an idea of what I mean. -- Beland 05:58, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The following section "Granularity and subthreads" is the list from Beland:
Beland and I propose a series of samplers, which trace an idea in a few words, of wide scope, intended to entice an ADD reader into an article. The idea is that a sampler could be placed at a standard spot in the History of science article, with content that rotates on some basis. A sampler addresses a difficulty with adding even more content to the main article. We could write some prose such as:
No foreseeable limit to the items. The prose is not meant to be a permanent part of the main article, only the location of the sampler would remain constant. But maybe if the prose were to be accepted into a child article, then it might live on.
While the pruning effort has addressed one of the big issues raised during the first FAC, the other objection questioned the completeness of this article. Before this article goes back for another attempt at FA status I would like to ask "Are there any other fields of study that need to be included?".
Two possible canidates are Library science and military science. I personally feel library science is as much organizational philosophy and management as anything. Military science, on the other hand, probably has as much claim to inclusion as political science. I am not saying either of these should be included, but to address potential completeness concerns we probably need a discussion. -- Allen3 talk 22:39, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
I think the list in the article Science is a good guide for what fields should be included. I added library and military science there. I think for the broad overview, it might not be a bad idea to lump all the computer and information sciences together...library science is something of a subset of information retrieval, though like every subfield or interdisciplinary field it has its own community of practitioners.
Looking at the current state of the info box, I think we may have too much subfield proliferation. I think the navbox should be used to tie together all the top-level subarticles, but subsubarticles should not be listed there. Otherwise, it gets too long. So there should probably be only one main article linked for health sciences and medicine, which itself summarizes the histories of the subfields. There's not enough room in the main "History of science" article to do anything but perhaps list the subsubfields by way of linking to the subsubarticles. I would say the same for earth sciences, which overlaps a lot with physics. "Communications studies" is not notable enough to be included here, I don't think. It also overlaps with psychology and information science, so any earth-shattering developments there should get coverage elsewhere already. Military science is OK to add, I guess, since it seems so different from anything else here. Planetary science drifts between earth sciences and astronomy, so I'm not sure about that. There are a number of enviroment-related sciences; perhaps there should be a "lump" for them as well. History is not a science; it belongs in the humanities, so "historiography" definitely does not belong in this series. I'll turn it into a See Also link.
Also note the section on "Missing material" above, which outlines some things which should probably be mentioned in the sections we already include. -- Beland 05:05, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The section on Greek science was moved to a proper page in this series. Ancheta Wis 11:13, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
I added a small section on greek science. Where was it moved? I think it's wrong to limit greek contribution to science to Aristotle, and then conclude that the greek were pre-scientific, completely ignoring the impressive achievements of the third century B.C.. For sure my contribution can be greatly improved. Carlo Marchiori 15:25, 12 May 2005 (UTC)