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A summary of this article appears in Guatemala. |
This article contains a translation of Historia de Guatemala from es.wikipedia. |
Resource recommendations: Can anyone recommend outside resources (books, journal articles, newspaper articles, films, etc.) that would provide contrasting POVs on the causes and consequences of La Violencia?
What was the Central American Civil War (1826–1829)? Does it have a wikipedia page under a different name or should it have a page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg.collver ( talk • contribs) 15:10, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
This article betrays a distinct bias from scholars depending on Richard Hansen's version of events in Mesoamerican history. It needs to be balanced by scholars with equally valid views who work elsewhere in Mesoamerica, such as the in the Southern Maya area. Several of the claims, as well, are not attributable to peer-reviewed publications and, hence, are insupportable at this point.
I can see why the tag was put on as it just describes things from a left wing POV but getting a more fully accurate picture would take a lot of research. Any takers? SqueakBox 19:30, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
I guess terms like American paranoia, Communist threat, even CIA orchestrated. The whole post operation CIA enquiry also seems like it has been written from an anti American POV, and it is this as the only POV expressed which I imagine is the problem, SqueakBox 01:47, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't see how anyone can label this as a left wing POV. Any real examination of the events lead to the same conclusions. US interests, rather the interests of the United Fruit Company directly caused US interest in Guatemala. Bitter Fruit is an excellent examination of US intervention in Guatemala. I don't understand how the CIA was in any was obligated to do anything in the country. There is no liberal or pro-PBSSUCCESS stance. It was an utter failure.
But there is a pro US's cold war justification camp, whuich I understand is quite strong, and so I don't agree with your assessment, above anon. I am not American so I don't feel able to write expressing that POV, but the lack of it seems obvious to me, and we should strive to include all valid POV's, SqueakBox 17:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
This article really displays a mythical school textbook view of the Conquest. It didn't begin and end in 1534. The last Maya state, in Petén, was conquered in -- wait for it -- 1697! It is also mythical that Bartolomé de las Casas pacified the Q'eqchi'. The Wikipedia article on the Q'eqchi' correctly states: Bartolomé de las Casas was given permission to try to convert the Qʼeqchiʼ people to Christianity, however, only a small portion was converted and the church lost all ability to govern the Qʼeqchiʼ." Rexdwyer ( talk) 19:32, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Joanne Amaral ( talk · contribs) has written a series of terribly formatted and horribly named articles, some of which appear to be original research as she draws conclusions about their importance. Please merge the following back into this article, or help to write them in an encyclopedic manner:
Thank you. Harr o 5 01:21, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
To me these look like copyvios, I propose to make them into redirects here, SqueakBox 01:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Great job, thanks for fixing my mistakes on the 2 articles she just changed and if she comes back I will remove the text and speedy, SqueakBox 01:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
After receiving a message from Professor Derek Williams at the University of Toronto explaining the nature of Joanne's edits, I replied both to Professor Martin and to Joanne allowing her to resume editing on Wikipedia under conditions including always replying to messages, using talk pages, and most importantly, not posting any new articles until there is community support on this page. Harr o 5 22:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
This section needs to be exapnded further, compared to the Cold War era Guatemala is irrecognizable in just a short few decades. This fact needs to be highlighted further although there is much work to be done.
I dislike that Alfonso Portillo is portrayed in a positive light. On the last few hours that he enjoyed inmunity from prosecution he loaded up a plane full of cash stolen from the funds of the army and flew off to Mexico. He is a fugitive from justice and now lives in Mexico. These facts are well documented in the Guatemalan press.
His government is considered the most currupt in recent history and a complete failure. Organized crime picked up force during this era and now runs rampant. the administraiton did little or nothing to combat Guatemala's extensive problems; not to mention that it left the governemnt completely flat broke.
A link to people of the time are also needed like Efrain Rios Mont, Rogoberta Menchu, and other significant figures.
if you need resources for the expansion of pages on Guatemala might i point you in the direction of:
and especially
www.prensalibre.com
they are both great sources of information, keep extensive archives, are distributed nation-wide, and a harsh on the political class, although they are a little soft on big bisness.
Keep up the good work.
-- SvenGodo 07:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
The citation style with a number in {curly brackets} isn't working. I don't know which source is supposed to be verifying the statement about 12,000 years ago. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 01:39, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Removed the following para concerning El Mirador, contains way too many errors to retain without complete rewrite:
The city of El Mirador was the biggest city in ancient America, has the largest pyramid in the world, at 2,800,000 Mt2 of volume (some 200,000 more than the Giza pyramid in Egypt), and was by far the most populated city in the pre-Columbian America. In fact, Mirador was the first politically organized state in America, named the Kan Kingdom in ancient texts. There were 26 cities, some bigger than Tikal, the Jewel of the Classic period, all connected by huge Sacbeob (plural for highways ), or Sacbé (singular), meaning "White road", several km long and up to 40 mts. wide and 2 to 4 mts. above the ground, paved with stucco, that are clearly distinguishable from the air in the most extensive virgin tropical rain forest left in Mesoamerica. Thus, these were kingdoms equal in power and culture to those in Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, etc.
Calling it the biggest/most populous city in the pre-Columbian Americas is false in both aspects, as there are others with larger estimated extent and populations; the pyramid measurements are not so confidently known; it was a long way from being the 1st politically organised state, or momumental centre, in the Americas (for eg some cities of Norte Chico in Sth America pre-date by almost 2000 yrs), or even of the Mesoamerican region, or even of the central/southern lowlands; there are more than 26 Mirador Basin sites known; not all of them are connected by sacbeob (which are not so easy to spot from the air, in any case). The remainder of the pre-Columbian section has its problems, but this para is particularly misleading, and warrants removal. -- cjllw ʘ TALK 00:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
The content on the 36-year civil war is necessary for this article and should not be deleted. It is a good encapsulation of the war. Leaving the following two lines for this entire section is not sufficient:
"The Guatemalan Civil War was fought between 1960 and 1996 between the government and left-wing insurgents. The United States supported the government and Cuba and other Communist states the insurgents. 200,000 people were killed."
Do not delete this again without at least attempting to establish consensus here. Notmyrealname ( talk) 19:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Not a single concrete example of what is wrong. Why mention an earlier version not current anymore? References are in the main article. No need for them in an overview. Ultramarine ( talk) 18:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Besides the material on the civil war period in this article, much of the other material seems to have been copy and pasted from websites, possibly in violation of copyrights. For example, much of the material in the article appears here: [ [4]
Needs a link to Álvaro Colóm. Ends abruptly without such a link. Thammer302 ( talk) 03:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Any objections to merging these two sections? I don't see a distinction. Notmyrealname ( talk) 07:37, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I've gone in and found some citations that were not showing up because they were done incorrectly. I made the citations visible and rewrote the text to remove text that was confusing, opinionated and unnecessary. I hoped I've improved the section. I am slightly concerned that some of the text might be verbatim from the sources, but as they are not online sources was unable to check. Okiebradshaw ( talk) 17:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Gone through it again and tried to reorganize the text into a cohesive read. Hope it's better, still unsure on any plagiarism issues the section might have. Okiebradshaw ( talk) 19:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
It's clear there are several different overlapping writers:
"After Jacobo Arbenz came to power in 1951, he extended political freedom, allowing Communists in Guatemala to participate in politics. This move by Arbenz let many opponents in Ubico’s regime to recognize themselves as Communists. By 1952, Arbenz supported a land reform, and took unused agricultural land, about 225,000 acres (910 km2), from owners who had large properties, and made it available to rural workers and farmers. These lands were to be taken from the United Fruit Company with compensation; however, the UFC believed the compensation was not enough. Meantime, Arbenz allowed the Communist Party to organize and include leaders notably his adviser who were leftist. The propaganda effort that was led by United Fruit Company against the revolution in Guatemala persuaded the U.S. government to fight against communism in Guatemala. The United States clutched on small details to prove the existence of widespread Communism in Guatemala. The Eisenhower administration at the time in the U.S. were not happy about the Arbenz government, they considered Arbenz to be too close to Communism; there have been reports that Arbenz’s wife was a Communist and part of the Communist Party in Guatemala. Even though it was impossible for the U.S. to gather evidence and information about Guatemala’s relations to the Soviet Union, Americans wanted to believe that Communism existed in Guatemala. Many groups of Guatemalan exiles were armed and trained by the CIA, and commanded by Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas they invaded Guatemala on June 18, 1954. The Americans called it an Anti-Communist Coup against Arbenz. The coup was supported by CIA radio broadcasts and so the Guatemalan army refused to resist the coup, Arbenz was forced to resign. In 1954 a military government replaced Arbenz' government and disbanded the legislature and they arrested communist leaders, Castillo Armas became president. Arbenz was elected without a secret ballot. He considered himself a communist and joined the Communist Party in 1957. His land reform, designed by the Communist Party, was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, which he then purged. His regime openly praised Stalin, relied on the communists for key decisions, and received arms from the Soviet bloc.[17] He killed hundreds of his opponents.[18] The CIA intervened because it feared that a communist dictatorship would become a Soviet beachhead in the Western Hemisphere.[19]"
These two paragraphs are from different drafts and were just kind of stuck together.
Please don't delete without discussion. THis is the history of a real country, a wealth of studies into its history have been done, this article should not be so shitty, poorly written and back and forth. It needs to be coherant for people trying to learn about the histroy of the country and see what's truthful.
155.247.134.211 ( talk) 21:19, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is currently 142kb of text, far larger than the size at which the guidelines suggest breaking it up. There are no shortage of subsidiary articles in this area, so it seems to me that some content detail may safely be shifted to these. Unless any objections are raised, I will do so in a little while.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
15:45, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
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Is this article ready for a Good article nomination? It seems very comprehensive. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 23:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
This article is missing information about its crucial colonial period, between the Conquest and the Independence. It would be great if someone can add it. Regards, -- Thinker78 (talk) 00:56, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A summary of this article appears in Guatemala. |
This article contains a translation of Historia de Guatemala from es.wikipedia. |
Resource recommendations: Can anyone recommend outside resources (books, journal articles, newspaper articles, films, etc.) that would provide contrasting POVs on the causes and consequences of La Violencia?
What was the Central American Civil War (1826–1829)? Does it have a wikipedia page under a different name or should it have a page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg.collver ( talk • contribs) 15:10, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
This article betrays a distinct bias from scholars depending on Richard Hansen's version of events in Mesoamerican history. It needs to be balanced by scholars with equally valid views who work elsewhere in Mesoamerica, such as the in the Southern Maya area. Several of the claims, as well, are not attributable to peer-reviewed publications and, hence, are insupportable at this point.
I can see why the tag was put on as it just describes things from a left wing POV but getting a more fully accurate picture would take a lot of research. Any takers? SqueakBox 19:30, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
I guess terms like American paranoia, Communist threat, even CIA orchestrated. The whole post operation CIA enquiry also seems like it has been written from an anti American POV, and it is this as the only POV expressed which I imagine is the problem, SqueakBox 01:47, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't see how anyone can label this as a left wing POV. Any real examination of the events lead to the same conclusions. US interests, rather the interests of the United Fruit Company directly caused US interest in Guatemala. Bitter Fruit is an excellent examination of US intervention in Guatemala. I don't understand how the CIA was in any was obligated to do anything in the country. There is no liberal or pro-PBSSUCCESS stance. It was an utter failure.
But there is a pro US's cold war justification camp, whuich I understand is quite strong, and so I don't agree with your assessment, above anon. I am not American so I don't feel able to write expressing that POV, but the lack of it seems obvious to me, and we should strive to include all valid POV's, SqueakBox 17:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
This article really displays a mythical school textbook view of the Conquest. It didn't begin and end in 1534. The last Maya state, in Petén, was conquered in -- wait for it -- 1697! It is also mythical that Bartolomé de las Casas pacified the Q'eqchi'. The Wikipedia article on the Q'eqchi' correctly states: Bartolomé de las Casas was given permission to try to convert the Qʼeqchiʼ people to Christianity, however, only a small portion was converted and the church lost all ability to govern the Qʼeqchiʼ." Rexdwyer ( talk) 19:32, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Joanne Amaral ( talk · contribs) has written a series of terribly formatted and horribly named articles, some of which appear to be original research as she draws conclusions about their importance. Please merge the following back into this article, or help to write them in an encyclopedic manner:
Thank you. Harr o 5 01:21, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
To me these look like copyvios, I propose to make them into redirects here, SqueakBox 01:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Great job, thanks for fixing my mistakes on the 2 articles she just changed and if she comes back I will remove the text and speedy, SqueakBox 01:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
After receiving a message from Professor Derek Williams at the University of Toronto explaining the nature of Joanne's edits, I replied both to Professor Martin and to Joanne allowing her to resume editing on Wikipedia under conditions including always replying to messages, using talk pages, and most importantly, not posting any new articles until there is community support on this page. Harr o 5 22:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
This section needs to be exapnded further, compared to the Cold War era Guatemala is irrecognizable in just a short few decades. This fact needs to be highlighted further although there is much work to be done.
I dislike that Alfonso Portillo is portrayed in a positive light. On the last few hours that he enjoyed inmunity from prosecution he loaded up a plane full of cash stolen from the funds of the army and flew off to Mexico. He is a fugitive from justice and now lives in Mexico. These facts are well documented in the Guatemalan press.
His government is considered the most currupt in recent history and a complete failure. Organized crime picked up force during this era and now runs rampant. the administraiton did little or nothing to combat Guatemala's extensive problems; not to mention that it left the governemnt completely flat broke.
A link to people of the time are also needed like Efrain Rios Mont, Rogoberta Menchu, and other significant figures.
if you need resources for the expansion of pages on Guatemala might i point you in the direction of:
and especially
www.prensalibre.com
they are both great sources of information, keep extensive archives, are distributed nation-wide, and a harsh on the political class, although they are a little soft on big bisness.
Keep up the good work.
-- SvenGodo 07:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
The citation style with a number in {curly brackets} isn't working. I don't know which source is supposed to be verifying the statement about 12,000 years ago. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 01:39, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Removed the following para concerning El Mirador, contains way too many errors to retain without complete rewrite:
The city of El Mirador was the biggest city in ancient America, has the largest pyramid in the world, at 2,800,000 Mt2 of volume (some 200,000 more than the Giza pyramid in Egypt), and was by far the most populated city in the pre-Columbian America. In fact, Mirador was the first politically organized state in America, named the Kan Kingdom in ancient texts. There were 26 cities, some bigger than Tikal, the Jewel of the Classic period, all connected by huge Sacbeob (plural for highways ), or Sacbé (singular), meaning "White road", several km long and up to 40 mts. wide and 2 to 4 mts. above the ground, paved with stucco, that are clearly distinguishable from the air in the most extensive virgin tropical rain forest left in Mesoamerica. Thus, these were kingdoms equal in power and culture to those in Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, etc.
Calling it the biggest/most populous city in the pre-Columbian Americas is false in both aspects, as there are others with larger estimated extent and populations; the pyramid measurements are not so confidently known; it was a long way from being the 1st politically organised state, or momumental centre, in the Americas (for eg some cities of Norte Chico in Sth America pre-date by almost 2000 yrs), or even of the Mesoamerican region, or even of the central/southern lowlands; there are more than 26 Mirador Basin sites known; not all of them are connected by sacbeob (which are not so easy to spot from the air, in any case). The remainder of the pre-Columbian section has its problems, but this para is particularly misleading, and warrants removal. -- cjllw ʘ TALK 00:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
The content on the 36-year civil war is necessary for this article and should not be deleted. It is a good encapsulation of the war. Leaving the following two lines for this entire section is not sufficient:
"The Guatemalan Civil War was fought between 1960 and 1996 between the government and left-wing insurgents. The United States supported the government and Cuba and other Communist states the insurgents. 200,000 people were killed."
Do not delete this again without at least attempting to establish consensus here. Notmyrealname ( talk) 19:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Not a single concrete example of what is wrong. Why mention an earlier version not current anymore? References are in the main article. No need for them in an overview. Ultramarine ( talk) 18:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Besides the material on the civil war period in this article, much of the other material seems to have been copy and pasted from websites, possibly in violation of copyrights. For example, much of the material in the article appears here: [ [4]
Needs a link to Álvaro Colóm. Ends abruptly without such a link. Thammer302 ( talk) 03:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Any objections to merging these two sections? I don't see a distinction. Notmyrealname ( talk) 07:37, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I've gone in and found some citations that were not showing up because they were done incorrectly. I made the citations visible and rewrote the text to remove text that was confusing, opinionated and unnecessary. I hoped I've improved the section. I am slightly concerned that some of the text might be verbatim from the sources, but as they are not online sources was unable to check. Okiebradshaw ( talk) 17:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Gone through it again and tried to reorganize the text into a cohesive read. Hope it's better, still unsure on any plagiarism issues the section might have. Okiebradshaw ( talk) 19:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
It's clear there are several different overlapping writers:
"After Jacobo Arbenz came to power in 1951, he extended political freedom, allowing Communists in Guatemala to participate in politics. This move by Arbenz let many opponents in Ubico’s regime to recognize themselves as Communists. By 1952, Arbenz supported a land reform, and took unused agricultural land, about 225,000 acres (910 km2), from owners who had large properties, and made it available to rural workers and farmers. These lands were to be taken from the United Fruit Company with compensation; however, the UFC believed the compensation was not enough. Meantime, Arbenz allowed the Communist Party to organize and include leaders notably his adviser who were leftist. The propaganda effort that was led by United Fruit Company against the revolution in Guatemala persuaded the U.S. government to fight against communism in Guatemala. The United States clutched on small details to prove the existence of widespread Communism in Guatemala. The Eisenhower administration at the time in the U.S. were not happy about the Arbenz government, they considered Arbenz to be too close to Communism; there have been reports that Arbenz’s wife was a Communist and part of the Communist Party in Guatemala. Even though it was impossible for the U.S. to gather evidence and information about Guatemala’s relations to the Soviet Union, Americans wanted to believe that Communism existed in Guatemala. Many groups of Guatemalan exiles were armed and trained by the CIA, and commanded by Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas they invaded Guatemala on June 18, 1954. The Americans called it an Anti-Communist Coup against Arbenz. The coup was supported by CIA radio broadcasts and so the Guatemalan army refused to resist the coup, Arbenz was forced to resign. In 1954 a military government replaced Arbenz' government and disbanded the legislature and they arrested communist leaders, Castillo Armas became president. Arbenz was elected without a secret ballot. He considered himself a communist and joined the Communist Party in 1957. His land reform, designed by the Communist Party, was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, which he then purged. His regime openly praised Stalin, relied on the communists for key decisions, and received arms from the Soviet bloc.[17] He killed hundreds of his opponents.[18] The CIA intervened because it feared that a communist dictatorship would become a Soviet beachhead in the Western Hemisphere.[19]"
These two paragraphs are from different drafts and were just kind of stuck together.
Please don't delete without discussion. THis is the history of a real country, a wealth of studies into its history have been done, this article should not be so shitty, poorly written and back and forth. It needs to be coherant for people trying to learn about the histroy of the country and see what's truthful.
155.247.134.211 ( talk) 21:19, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is currently 142kb of text, far larger than the size at which the guidelines suggest breaking it up. There are no shortage of subsidiary articles in this area, so it seems to me that some content detail may safely be shifted to these. Unless any objections are raised, I will do so in a little while.
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
15:45, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 7 external links on
History of Guatemala. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:22, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:57, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Is this article ready for a Good article nomination? It seems very comprehensive. — Mr. Guye ( talk) ( contribs) 23:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
This article is missing information about its crucial colonial period, between the Conquest and the Independence. It would be great if someone can add it. Regards, -- Thinker78 (talk) 00:56, 21 May 2023 (UTC)