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Hindus in Bali and Nepal also have jaati system and wear Bindis. Naturally there are variations in India and outside India.
They have incorrectly been placed with other shurti texts like the vedas and upanishads, down at the bottom in the links section.
They are Ithihasas or Epics.
Above discussion is further evidence of negationist trend in Hinduism. To quote Nehru, whatever is not Islam is Hinduism. In the same way, our friend, despite being alloted a Wiikipedia topic to explain hinduism has to fall back on allah to explain some feature of Hinduism.
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-- ashwatha 21:51, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
--
As far as my memory serves me right, there were such restrictions regarding the utterance of Gayathri mantra in the past and Ramanujar or someone else was the first person to enunciate the mantra from atop a gopura in Sri Rangam so that non-brahmins could hear that. But, definitely the restriction is close to being not there in modern times except for an occasional weak cribbing by some orthodox brahmins. -- Sundar 10:48, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
I wrote two months ago in Talk:Hinduism : Images on Hinduism, for example Image:Sadhu(www.kamat.com).jpg, are not under the GNU Free Documentation License. Image page says: "This image is not licenced under the GFDL. It is under a non-commercial-use only licence." Doesn't this prevent republishing Wikipedia? Tero 16:02, 2004 Apr 24 (UTC)
See also a message by Jimbo. Should this page be added to copyright violations?
statue A three-dimensional form or likeness sculpted, modeled, carved, or cast in material such as stone, clay, wood, or bronze.
idol An image used as an object of worship.
icon- a usually pictorial representation (a conventional religious image typically painted on a small wooden panel and used in the devotions of Eastern Christians)
I think that in the usage of terminologies, common practice of usage should be respected, especially in the area where the usage originates or has maximum usage. In India, everyone uses the word idol only to mean the concrete form of deities, not statues( see meaning) and not icons( they have a Russian/ Byzantine context of use).
The argument that idol means a false God has no validity because in India we use idol to mean representation of God. I don't think it is right to choose terminologies solely on the basis of how the West views the same terms. As an illustration is the recent inclusion of so many Indian words in British dictionaries. KRS 06:23, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
A false god.
One that is adored, often blindly or excessively.
I believe the negative connotation of 'idol' originates in (and is limited to) the Judao-Christian culture. There is a well-known story in the Old Testament about how Moses came down from the mountain after communing with God and found his followers worshipping a golden calf. (I won't go into the details of the story.) This negative connotation is a classic example of cultural baggage. Don't know if there's an article on that but there should be. -- Smithfarm 16:16, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I agree with you completely, KRS. 'Idol' should not be used in place of 'statue'. However, Hindus essentially worship these 'statues' with ceremonies, so, wouldn't it be considered an 'Idol'? I see but still have questions, Websurfer11 00:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I need help from Hindus in an attempt to speak of a common ground among believers. Are there any Hindus here who could either help me or direct me to a group where I might find knowledgeable and mature Hindus willing to help me for a while explore the feasibility of a universalist Wiki type project on core universal truths such as possibly eternity, sacrificial love, and soul? Tom - Talk 06:59, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Here is a sentence in this article:
"caste plays a significant role in Hindu society, although it is now losing favor and is illegal in India."
This doesn't make sense - discrimination based on a person's caste is certainly illegal; but what does it mean to say that caste itself is illegal? -- ashwatha 17:35, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Though pretty late in the thread, I can definitively say that caste by itself is not illegal in India. In fact, the Tehsildars issue certificates (I hold one.) for one's caste so that they can avail some benefits (like reservation in educational institutions) if they belong to a backward or scheduled community. -- Sundar 10:52, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
Also late to the discussion...I believe the Indian Constitution outlaws the caste system in one of its early articles. But then in some later articles, the Constitution outlaws discrimination based on caste. In effect, the Constitution attempts to destroy the system but then proceeds to reinforce it by attempting to protect those who are most hurt by the system. Parthepan 07:12, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Look, caste is not illegal. Change the sentence. Make it say 'discrimination based on castes is illegal. Websurfer11 22:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
There is a debate which is causing some trouble on the God article. Please have a look @ Talk:God#Brahman and see if you can add your wisdom to our debate. Cheers, Sam [ Spade] 16:47, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The aspect of Karma in Hinduism is not written well and needs to be updated. If anyone who has a substantial knowledge of karma and can write well, please revise the Karma article from a Hindu point of view. Also if someone can write on the Hindu aspect of sin, that would be great. Raj2004 14:06, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC) Well, I consulted references and wrote the article. Raj2004 18:53, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
In CIA world fact book [1] hindus make 13.28% of world population which results in 850 million people. And even more intrestingly the Page (on hinduism on wikipedia) says 96% of hindus live in India now if I take statistics from Page of India Population of india is 1065 Million Hindus make 80.5 Percent (According to that Page) which result in 857 million. If they are 96% of the population Even this wont make 1.05 billion figure! At best it is below 890 million. Even by using Indias population and 96% argument Thanks with regards Zain 09:34, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Why is Bharat listed here and then followed by India in parentheses? I know Bharat is part of the nation's official name, but it is rarely used in everyday circumstances and even less so in the English-speaking world, which is what this article and and other articles in English in this encyclopedia are aimed at. The fact that Bharat redirects to an article entitled "India" should confirm its secondary position behind "India." Parthepan 07:12, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
I would like to see an article created on tattvam asi (or tat tvam asi), but I'm not sure if I feel comfortable writing it. Would anyone here be willing? I'd be willing to help, of course. Cheers, [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Wants you to vote!]] 13:54, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I am a senior in High School and i have written my senior research paper about Buddhist influences on the Hindu faith. There was no current information on the topic that i could find so i posted my entire paper. If there are any questions on the information that is posted, the references are as follows:
Edmonds, I. G. Hinduism. New York: Franklin Watts, 1979.
“How the World Worships: For Billions of People, the World’s Great Religions Offer Hope, Spiritual Guidance, and Meaning to Life.” Scholastic Update. Dec. 6, 1996: v 129 n7 p. 8(6). Student Edition. The Gale Group. Newark High School Library, Newark, DE. 2 Dec. 2004. < http://web5.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/ses>.
Jacobson, Doranne. “Hinduism and Buddhism: A Shared Heritage.” Calliope. Jan. 2000: v 10 i5 p. 26. Student Edition. Gale Group. Newark High School, Newark, DE. 17 Nov. 2004. < http://web5.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/ses>.
“Major Non-Christian World Religions.” World Almanac and Book of Facts. Annual 2002: p. 943. Student Edition. The Gale Group. Newark High School Library, Newark, DE. 2 Dec. 2004. < http://web5.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/ses>.
Perry, Marvin, et al. History of the World. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1995.
Rao, P. Venugopala. “Science and Dharma.” World and I. Ap. 2001: v 16 i4 p. 150. Student Edition. Gale Group. Newark High School Library, Newark, DE. 17 Nov. 2004. < http://web5.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/ses>.
Renou, Louis, ed. Hinduism. New York: George Braziller, 1962.
Morgan's addition------------
BUDDHIST INFLUENCES IN HINDUISM
The Aryans arrived in the Indus Valley around 1500 B.C. They came to India in search of land and animals and stumbled upon the Indus Valley and its people. Although they were warlike nomads who brought no physical mark on the Indus Valley such as art or architecture, they did bring with them their Vedic religion, which mixed with the philosophies and culture of the natives. Eventually the Hindu faith was no longer fulfilling the needs of the lower astes of Indian people and a new religion was formed from Hinduism known as Buddhism. Buddhism eventually disappeared in India as a separate faith, but not entirely. It left Hinduism with a few Buddhist principles. Therefore, Hinduism as it is practiced today, is the product of ancient Aryan beliefs, Indian customs, and Buddhist influences. Unlike most religions, Hinduism has no single founder. Vedism, the Aryan religion, was considered the earliest form of Hinduism, but as time progressed the Upanishads were written, and a more modern Vedic religion aroused, known as Hinduism. This form of Hinduism was founded around 500 B.C. Although some of the Vedic “framework” was lost, the Vedas were still important because they were some of the few sacred texts consulted. The Vedas contain magical prayers, cosmic speculation, and possible myths of the origin of the universe. They also contain teachings and commentaries. A large part of the Vedic religion that was passed down to the Hindu religion is the sacrificing of food. They sacrificed plants and sometimes animals. The Vedic religion was also the first of all to develop mythology. There were three major gods: Indra, the protector, Agni, the god of fire, and Soma, the god of plants and liquor. Hindus also worshiped natural spirits of wind, water, rain, and sky, as well as powerful gods such as the creator, the preserver, and the destroyer. The Vedas ideas of form combined with the culture of the natives and brought structure to Hinduism. The Indus Valley peoples and the Aryans developed a caste system. The caste system is Hinduism’s way to distinguish society into stages of existence as a Hindu. The castes included brahmin or priests as the highest order, then warrior nobles known as the kshatriya, then there were the vaisya or the common people, and lastly there were the sudra who were also known as the laboring class. The Hindu caste system was rigid and people of one caste could not move to another caste, marry a person from another caste, or even associate with a person of a different caste outside of daily tasks or else they would risk “spiritual pollution”. After Hinduism had formed, it became a way of life for the people of the Indus Valley. It not only guided them through daily life via their dharma, but it also led them through spiritual matters. The Ancient Hindu faith consists of several characteristics, one of which is the concept of a cycle of life, or reincarnation, controlled by karma. A person’s karma, caste, and dharma are closely related. A person’s caste was determined by the amount of net good karma a person had. Karma is simply the total tally of good and bad deeds over many lifetimes, which are recorded in a “cosmic account book”. It determines the number of life cycles a person has and what they are reincarnated as. The greater their good karma, the higher in the caste system they were. If a person had committed terrible crimes, even as a priest, the highest caste, they could potentially come back as something as low as a worm. This cycle of rebirths is also compared to a wheel known as “samsara,” or “the wheel of life”. Each person’s soul is part of a Universal Spirit known as Brahman. Every Hindu’s “duty and desire” is to return to Brahman, to attain eternal bliss, by cleansing their soul of all impurities. A person can only escape the cycle of rebirths by gaining good karma. This is not simply doing good deeds, but also having pure thoughts and having complete devotion. Once a person’s soul, or atman, is completely pure, it can be sent to Brahman and Brahman will remain pure. Each caste contains a different dharma. A dharma is like a spiritual tradition, duty, and custom. It is important in obtaining good karma. It teaches that tradition overrides all and should always be done that certain way. A person’s dharma should not be questioned, only accepted. Dharma is considered the “’maintenance’ in the right path,” and a “moral obligation,” to a Hindu as stated in Hinduism. Another characteristic of ancient Hinduism is that worship of the gods became the central focus of Hindu practices. Gods known as Shiva (Siva), Vishnu (Visnu), and Brahma would be presented with flowers and scents. They even bathed, dressed, fed, adorned, and worshiped the gods through various measures such as fire and song. Brahmin performed complex rituals during these ceremonies. A Hindu prince by the name of Siddhartha Gautama, who later became known as “the Buddha,” was not satisfied with his religion. He sat under a fig tree for 49 days and gained enlightenment through intense meditation. Gautama discovered the four noble truths while in his meditative state. The truths are that every living thing suffers, suffering is attributed to desire, suffering stops when there is no more wanting, and living a proper life will bring a person to the state of Nirvana, which is a state of bliss and tranquility. The only way to escape the never-ending cycle of rebirths is to reach a state of Nirvana, or “not wanting”. The complex rituals and unending cycle of rebirths tired the Hindus and as the Buddha preached his word in India, the Hindus began to follow, especially those of lower castes. This religion appealed to those of lower castes because the state of Nirvana could be achieved within one lifetime. Since Buddhism was an individual religion, extreme meditation was needed to achieve “self-understanding”. “Buddhism emphasizes equality, compassion, and personal spiritual achievement." Some of the Buddha’s teachings are similar if not the same as Hindu beliefs. Both religions contained aspects in common, but they also were at variance with their concepts of heaven and hell, reincarnation, the caste system, and animal sacrifice, which made them different religions in their own. Buddhist’s thoughts on heaven and hell are that Buddhists believed that heaven was reaching the state of Nirvana and everything before Nirvana, life on Earth, is hell because there is constant suffering. Ancient Hindus believe only in the good and bad lives as directed by karma. There is no heaven or hell (Edmonds 15). Buddhists believe in both heaven and hell whereas ancient Hindus believe in neither. Although both Hindus and Buddhists believed in reincarnation, their ideas of it vary slightly. The Buddha’s believe that reincarnation is not for becoming pure. Rather, they thought that it was to gain self-understanding. The Hindus thought reincarnation was due to bad karma, and it was necessary for freeing one’s self from evils to become one with Brahman again. Buddhism rejected the caste system. The caste system, set up by the Hindu faith, segregated the people into levels of importance on the Hindu ladder to Brahman. This greatly conflicted with Buddhist views of equality, compassion, and personal spiritual achievement. Buddhist’s belief in equality of all beings led them away from animal sacrifices. Some Buddhists will not eat meat due to their strong beliefs of the holiness of animals. The ancient Hindus however, sacrificed animals and presented them to the gods as gifts. Eventually Buddhism faded as a separate religion in India. It did not, however, vanish completely from India; it left considerable marks on the ancient Hindu faith. Hinduism’s views of reincarnation, the caste system, heaven and hell, and even animal sacrifice were changed. Hinduism’s views of reincarnation absorbed the shorter-term characteristics of Buddhism while keeping its characteristics of Brahman being the universal pure spirit. Ancient Hinduism required complex rituals be performed with the help of a Brahmin, but by the influences of Buddhism, a pure soul has to be attained through yoga instead of the complex rituals aided by Brahmin, otherwise, reincarnation is inevitable. Many people do not agree with the caste system, however, it is still in effect in India today. People born into a particular caste will remain in that caste throughout that lifetime they will serve. Discrimination against a person who isn’t of the same caste is now outlawed by the Indian Constitution, but was very common before this as certain castes had to ring bells before entering certain places because it was impure to see people who were in a lower caste. Today’s Hinduism has engrossed some of the Buddhist thoughts of heaven and hell also. Ancient Hinduism did not contain hell. It only contained Brahman, which is a heaven-like state of pureness. Hinduism today contains both heaven and hell, like Buddhism does, the only difference is that Yama, the judge of the dead, can send a soul to either for a temporary time. Ancient Hindus sacrificed animals to the gods as gifts for them. Now many Hindus are vegetarians and believe that animals have souls. They believe some gods are in the forms of animals. Hindus now consider cows one of the most sacred animals for their milk and giving of life. It is a serious spiritual crime to kill a cow and even riots occur if someone were to kill one, even in an accident. The Aryan’s Vedic faith and the Indus Valley people’s customs blended and formed the religion of ancient Hinduism. From this religion came Buddhism, which eventually disappeared as a separate faith in India, but changed Hinduism into what is practiced today. “Hinduism gradually absorbed a number of important Buddhist teachings and attitudes”. Currently practiced Hinduism formed from the ancient Aryan faith of Vedism, customs of the Indus Valley natives, and the completely separate faith of Buddhism.
Morgan, there was mention of Hell long before Buddhism. It was mentioned in the Puranas as
Naraka and Lord Yama is the judge.
I would say Buddhist doctrines influenced
Advaita.
Brahman can be also be described as
Saguna Brahman or God with form, such as Siva, or Vishnu.
Raj2004 01:09, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This seems very inaccurate. A lot of the changes in philosophical viewpoint in Hinduism that are being ascribed to Buddhism occurred in primary form in the Upanishadic movement which swept India from around 1000 BCE to 300 CE. Buddha, in fact, obtained many of his terminologies and seed concepts from Upanishadic Brahmins, who came before him. It is a little simplistic and in fact unfair to Buddhism and Hinduism to narrow down their dynamic interchange so unrealistically. There needs to be more thought and discussion on this, because Buddhism certainly has influenced Hinduism, but not so straightforwardly as has been supposed above. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 20:06, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
Hello, we are having a polite debate / discussion on Talk:Pantheism about different sects of Hinduism (particularly Smartism and Arya Samaj) and their relationships with pantheism / Panentheism. The discussion is very esoteric and weighty, but both I and my partner are polite and thoughtful, and I think some additional input might be helpful. Thank you for your time, Sam Spade ( talk · contribs) 17:29, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
sadly, this article is very, very, far from being encyclopedic or even factual. It's a sermon. An eulogy. I made a few edits, but they do very little. The Vedas don't condone discrimination? Varna has nothing to do with skin color? I believe that many Hindus believe so (and this may of course be asserted), but that's just because most Hindus have never actually read the vedas, or if they have, they didn't bother to translate. The Rigveda, for example (9.73.5) talks about the blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates. dab (ᛏ) 17:30, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Ramashray 12:26, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I have no problem with attributing the belief that varna has nothing to do with skin color/ethnicity to specific schools or thinkers. I am only objecting to assertive statements "varna has in fact nothing to do with skin color". The problem is generally the ahistoricity of Hindu culture, i.e. people refuse to examine the history and emergence of their religion and are quick to say it's "eternal" etc. The "origins" section does in fact not talk about origins at all. It would have to briefly gesture at Aryan Invasion theory vs./combined with Indus Valley Civilization. Also, Soma should be mentioned, and the decline of the vedic pantheon ( Indra is not mentioned in this article!). dab (ᛏ) 13:35, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Ramashray 14:09, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Hello Dbachmann, Regarding the Rig Veda quote: The Rig Veda line you have mentionned has also been interpreted as meaning the sun which at dawn takes the night (black cover of the earth) away from the earth. "Tvac" also means surface of the earth, as is also written in the old Sanskrit dictionary by Monier-Williams: surface ( of the earth ) , i , 145 , 5 ; x , 68 , 4 AV. vi , 21 , 1 TBr. i , 5 , 5 , 4 ( [2], under "tvac"). So this could simply refer to the sun at dawn, that takes the night away. Also, light and dark have been used as symbols by all religions in the world. And also, for example, the Irish called the vikings "dark" after they were invaded by them. Dark and light are often used symbolical.
Also, the Rig Veda translations in English are old and not perfect, and because of the old age of the Rig Veda, even those who are able to read the text in Sanskrit are not able to interpret everything correctly. Unfortunately, many false claims and assumptions have been made of all kind, by all kind of people.
For a very good overview of different interpretations that have been made on the Rig Veda, please see Misinterpretations of Rigvedic history, a chapter from a book by Talageri.
Rig Veda has also this line about Indra: “Indra, you lifted up the outcast who was oppressed, you glorified the blind and the lame.” (Rg-Veda 2:13:12)
About Indra, Indra was a popular god worshipped in south india, and Indra is an important god in the tamil epic Silappadikaram and generally in South Indian literature (Tholkapiam, Purananuru, Paripadal Aingurunuru and Pattupaddu, (all of the Sangam period), also Seran Senguttuvan, and Illango Adikal) Because Shiva and Indra are similar, some people think that Indra and Shiva are basically the same god.
In the older part of the Rig Veda, there is no allusion to caste, but there is one that I know of in the younger part of the Rig Veda (RV 10:90:12), where the four castes are compared to the body of a man. In the Rig Veda, the word Varna is not used to describe caste, it means "lustre" in the Rig Veda.
Also, it is a religious text, and unfortunately no human religion has been entirely free from discrimination. Discrimination and the institution of caste has existed in all religions, the European system of aristocracy, priesthood, and king as the upper castes and farmers and merchants as the lower castes has also existed in Europe. And articles like Judaism and Islam also dont't focus on discrimination, which also exists in their religions. Also, untouchability is not mentionned in the Vedic texts.
I would like to make more comments, but unfortunately I don't have time at the moment. I highly respect most of your contributions, but unfortunately I think your comment from above is not fair and balanced. -- Machaon 18:25, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I have added an edited section here from the article. It is somebody's person opinion with no sources cited. It is very offensive, and is more suitable for discussion:
Monotheism and Hinduism: Most Westerners and the vast majority of Christians see Hinduism as a pantheistic or polytheistic religion. Hinduism is definitely a monotheistic religion and is represented in the concrete symbols of the Hindu Trinity. The many aspects of God are given a variety of names in Hinduism. Each 'God' will roughly correspond to how Christians, Muslims, and Jews all conceive of the same God but in different ways. These 'Gods' are invoked as intercessors on behalf of the faithful in much the same way that Christians, for instance, will pray for intercession from Mother Mary, Jesus, and others called Patron Saints of certain causes. St. Anthony is the Patron Saint of Lost Objects, so his name is often invoked during efforts to locate some object. One rather simple way to understand the usage of the 101 names of God in Hinduism is to use a human being as an example of a single entity that has many facets. A grown woman, for instance, has a name, e.g.Mary, but she is also called mother, sister, wife, daughter, cousin, aunt, grandmother, co-worker, neighbor, colleague, friend, laborer, driver, social director, enforcer, etc. Each of these terms describes but one aspect of the whole entity we call Mary. These aspects are distinct but not separate so they do not represent unique entities. They are parts of a larger whole. In this way, God is called by many names in Hinduism, but those names are merely descriptive of the many aspects of the single entity that many call God. A child may not even know his/her mother's 'name'. The neighbor or colleague may know her only as Mrs. Someone. No single person can know or describe the unique entity that is Mary. This parallel is appropriate for a number of reasons. In all monotheistic religions, God is seen as all powerful and unknowable. We cannot know his entirety. We cannot even name him effectively. Yahweh, Allah, God, Higher Power - these are all attempts to identify that which we see as the Supreme Being, the uknowable, ineffible I AM. To a small child, his/her mother is only a source of nourishment and comfort. As the child grows and learns more, he/she is able to identify more facets of 'mother' but he/she will never know all the facets as they are unknowable. In this regard, God is both known and unknowable. God is known by the attributes with which we label him - in the West we call God Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent and yet we are unable to define God in any more specific terms other than our feeble attempts at labeling the knowable aspects of him. So, to the common Hindu, the facets of God that are embraced are seen as the aspect(s) of the whole that can be understood or identified. There is no attempt to go farther than that. To better-educated Hindus, the facets are seen more like the Christian Saints. These aspects are knowable, anthropomorphic, and less than the Whole. The Christian Saints are humans who have performed miracles, are people through whom God spreads His message. They, like all humans, are part of the Supreme Being and like all humans who seek union with God, the saints are seen as residing in Heaven with God, parts of the Whole. Further, Christ-centered religions often seek to make each member of the religion a messenger for God (evangelism) and the religion. Hindus have no concept of this and do not seek converts. Rather, Hinduism is inclusive of prophets like Jesus and many consider him to be an Avatar - an incarnated God or His manifestation as a divine messenger who walks on Earth among Men. So Hindus do not seek to separate themselves from their fellows in their search for union with God. They see their religion as a method to attain Nirvana or redemption from the cycle of birth and death(which can be loosely defined as Heaven) by embracing all worthy prophets without regard to the label that prophet may put on himself. 5/25/05
Disclaimer: I haven't read the article line-by-line. I've just glanced through the article. So, correct me if I've got some things wrong. -- Sundar 11:26, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
1. Is Hinduism commonly called sanatana dharma?
2. Cow or a bull?
3. POV?
Following are my observations on Hinduism: -- Sundar 11:26, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
I've been raised as a practising Hindu and was taught a lot of hindu moral values throughout and hence I admire hinduism for many things, most importantly, it being not too organised a religion. Currently, I am an atheist, though. -- Sundar 11:26, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
I am not an expert in Sanskrit nor Hinduism, but I'm interested in writing systems. So I am addressing to all of you :-) Is the Devanagari text and/or Roman transliteration corect? Shouldn't विप्राः be transliterated as Viprāḥ ? Meursault2004 14:59, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hey thanks! Meursault2004 9 July 2005 02:32 (UTC)
Can you please help me to identify the place in the Wikipedia where the Hindu understanding of what is man/humanity is explained? I will be watching this page. Tom Haws 18:54, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
Would anybody be able to provide quotes from one the great teachers of Hinduism (like Moses and Jesus in Christianity) that express these teachings in a way that would fit in this statement? The great spiritual teachers of the world's religions have defined humans in terms of divinity and soul. According to Moses, "God created man in his own image...of the dust of the ground...; and man became a living soul." According to Jesus, "the kingdom of God is within you." Tom Haws 16:33, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
The article on major world religions states that Hinduism has 900 million followers worldwide, while this article states that it has 1.05 billion. I am suspecting that the sources (the one in this article has not been specified, BTW) are equally accurate, but I want to get it confirmed. If I'm correct, I suggest that we should change the wording from "1.05 billion" to "ranging from 900 million to 1.05 billion" in this article and maybe add a sidenote on the other article.-- GatesPlusPlus 14:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Why is this article continued as Hinduism II? Is it a good idea to have such an article? - Nat Kraus e 06:55, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
neither is Hinduism the "first religion to spawn other religions", since "Hinduism" is a collective term, spanning many "religions". If anything, "Vedic religion", not generally referred to as "Hinduism", did spawn Hinduism. The Vedas are not the oldest "scripture" by any definition, already because they are not "scripture", as in, they were not written down until the Middle Ages. So the removal of these statements was justified. dab (ᛏ) 10:57, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Ok, Dab I may concede partially. ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=scripture) Vedas however, may be the oldest traditions. ( see definition of traditions in dictionary.com) ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=traditions) Traditions are defined as a body of unwritten religious precepts and hence include oral traditions. Where is your evidence that the Vedas were written in the Middle Ages? They may have been written down much earlier, like 500 BC? or even earlier, such as 1500 BC? So you may not have evidence that the Vedas are not the oldest scripture. What would be a more neutral point of view is to say, that the Vedas are considered by many to be the world's oldest scripture and is accepted as revealed text by all Hindus. Or you can put in this: Nevertheless, the Vedas are considered to be the oldest religious traditions by many.
Hinduism may be a collection of basically two religions, Shaivism and Vaishnavism. Shaktism is really a sub-category of Shaivism and Smartism is a relatively later development. Raj2004 01:22, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
This is just to inform people that I want Wikipedia to accept a general policy that BC and AD represent a Christian Point of View and should be used only when they are appropriate, that is, in the context of expressing or providing an account of a Christian point of view. In other contexts, I argue that they violate our NPOV policy and we should use BCE and CE instead. See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/BCE-CE Debate for the detailed proposal. Slrubenstein | Talk 22:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
I had not come here for some months, and this article is today in a, let me say, less fit shape. I was really proud when it became a FA, but it has since endured many additions and the text does not flow properly anymore. There is also the problem of redundancy and unecessary length. We should make an effort to push it to a new "featured" version. I suppose all the great people who contributed to that before are here to help, along with some new people. What do you think? Subramanian talk 07:42, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
We need a Pracharak article. Sam Spade 15:11, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
The 1st paragraph states there are 3 million followers of "some form of Hinduism" in US.
The section describing geographic distribution states there are 1.5 million Hindus in the us.
Are we using different definitions of Hindu here?
are people serious about featuring two swastikas in the intro, the first of them a blown up thumbnail? I mean, I don't care, it just doesn't seem very appealing design-wise.
dab
(ᛏ) 07:05, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The OM is much, much more representative than the swastika for Hinduism. Considering also that the swastika was badly used in the past by the nazis and that is is not easily recognizable as a hindu symbol, shouldn´t it be further down on the article, rather than at the top? Subramanian talk 10:05, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
when making edits, so that you are not burying recent vandalism. An anon had removed most of the "Vedic" and "Caste" sections. dab (ᛏ) 10:19, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This article really needs a throughout rewrite and a cleanup. I lack the time to do this, but the "introduction" alone is five times longes than it should be and is very congested. Far away from brilliant prose. Subramanian talk 11:42, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) For Lord Siva´s sake, please check Buddhism. That standard is what we should strive for.
Image:Jain-swastika.jpg are people serious about featuring two swastikas in the intro, the first of them a blown up thumbnail? I mean, I don't care, it just doesn't seem very appealing design-wise.
dbachmann is a utterly offensive racist German who is NOT a hindu and knows nothing about Hindu culture. The swastika is the only non-syllabic holy Hindu symbol. This is as vile as a non-chrisitan Hindu complaining about the cross and then deleting images of the cross from Christian wiki pages. (imagine the hubris of a non-christian calling images of the "cross" as vandalism; then consider that dbachmann is doing exactly the same for the swastika).
Why is this German man dbachmann even concerned about Hinduism ?
He's got a hidden and very vile agenda. Deeply deeply offensive....
Please do not remove the swastika from this page. The religious, cultural, historic and contemporary significance for a billion indians is far FAR greater than what neo-nazi germans like wiki user dbachmann and others would have you believe. Be proud of your traditions.
In particular, vile racist dbachmann reflexively twitches when he sees the swastika. His native country of Germany is now trying to ban the symbol entirely in all Europe. That means no Jain or Hindu temples or scriptures or functions in Europe. This hysteria is fueled by people like dbachmann. Please do not listen to him.
Also remember that far-right organizations use the Christian cross and it was also used by the crusaders to slaughter millions of Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem and elsewhere. No one is trying to ban the cross because of that reason. Similarly because some racist organizations have used the swastika does not mean it's importance in both historical and contemporary India should be any means be trivialized.
dbachmann, you can go fark off. We don't like racists nor do we like your half-truths and unspoken slurs.
Hey, this is my bias: I´m a Hindu. But consider this:
But please note that:
Finally, one of the pillars of Hinduism is tolerance. Calm down when accusing anyone else. You were not firm: you were preaching. Subramanian talk 13:52, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Excellent swastika resource : http://www.gurudeva.org/resources/books/lg/lg_ch-07.html
dbachmann is a utterly offensive racist German who is NOT a hindu and knows nothing about Hindu culture.
The excitable contributor of the diatribe in the above section has been attempting to make a number of edits to the swastika article. These make a number of specific claims. One is that the left-facing form of the swastika is universally recognised in India as "evil" (his word) and that the form with the dots in the spaces is a "decorated" version, but that "formal" religious ceremonies only ever use the "undecorated" version. We would be grateful for any informed Indian contributors to comment on the validity or otherwise of these assertions. I am certainly not aware of the latter, and have only seen scanty support for the former view. Any comments, here or on the Swastika talk page would be welome. Thanks. Paul B 10:06 3 June 2005 (UTC)
Who changed the hinduism article?! The links and templates are all gone and information is missing!
Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism --- Dangerous-Boy
Can someone start an article on History of Hinduism? The History of Buddhism article is very good and it's sad that there's not one on Hinduism. -- Dangerous-Boy
Okay, I began the Rewrite. There´s still a lot to do, and I was appaled by the redundant text found it the core of the article, it´s a mess. I took too-specific information from the introduction and put it down. No information was lost. I also wrote a Brief Overview. Phew, the previous introduction discussed deep vedantic views but didn´t even state that Hinduism is a religion... 143.106.16.181 29 June 2005 12:11 (UTC)
Oka, so it´s at /temp. Please contribute. 143.106.16.181 29 June 2005 12:49 (UTC)
The picture stating cow is not a cow, mind u it an ox.
we seriously need to prune/organize the links. they are just piling up. compare the 'sanitary conditions' on Islam (only link to major directory, or everybody and their aunt will demand that their site be included). dab (ᛏ) 7 July 2005 12:59 (UTC)
Would anyone please care to comment on the importance or rôle of Jesus in Hinduism? Please see the discussion at Talk:Jesus#Poll:_Religions_Jesus_is_important_in. A complete review of various Hindu views of Jesus would be appreciated. Thanks. Tomer TALK July 8, 2005 18:53 (UTC)
Anyone not otherwise occupied might like to lend a hand @ Hindu deities. The intro especially needs work. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 9 July 2005 17:02 (UTC)
This article has degenerated into some metaphysical discussion of Hinduism from a religious viewpoint. I've reverted the edits as I really do not understand their point. Were they a religious discussion? A philosophical discussion? I just don't understand where the information was taken from. Mano1 22:29, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
I think the photo of the woman with Bindi should be replaced with another one. The fact that the head of the woman is covered will be interpreted wrongly by many people. 71.240.192.202 05:47, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Whats Hindu about? ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 18:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
I made a little box that can be easily updated so we could focus our efforts in Hinduism more efficiently.
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it's located on the WikiProject: Hinduism page. -- Dangerous-Boy
The article has degenerated even further; now it includes the doubtful historical timeline of dating hinduism's birth using astrology. Mano1 00:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Who are you 2 tamper with a precious article?? It provided me some authentic Information on Hinduism
Anybody know? -- Dangerous-Boy
I just wanted to get rid of this whole section. It was so bloated. -- Dangerous-Boy
Why remove sites with Hindu themes or affiliations like Shri Aurobindo, Chinymayananda and Vedanta institutions? -- 68.173.46.79 21:00, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
if you really want the revisions to be better, you should remove all of the religious overtones from it. The article has a very slanted point of view that is pro-hindu and anti-monotheistic religion. Further, the sections are all influenced by this view. Even the history section is non-neutral. Steelhead 04:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
However, Hinduism in reality is monotheistic, so it has to be mentioned somewhere in the article. DaGizza
Neutrality, it appears is rather subjective - some people find anything short of hinduism-denigration as "pro-hindu". Summarizing a few aspects of polytheism is "anti-monotheism" ?! Remove Hindu religious overtones from an article that talks about Hinduism ?! Using elements from contemporary vocabulary to describe Hindu spiritual traits is "revisionist " ?!
Here´s what we´re trying to do: It isn´t a problem to have a lot of text, but it becomes a problem when it is at the wrong article or when the text becomes too truncated due to excessive information. This old edit of Buddhism shows an example of a lot of a prose that is actually flowing, readable and therefore is not a problem, as well as a good introduction.
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As Hinduism is the richest religion by far in traditions and tolerance, we must see to when we are actually talking about something that belongs in the main article or when it should be properly summarized there and then expanded in another article. There at the right I´ve put a good guideline from another religion about topics we can explain in the main article, using good, exact prose, and then greatly expand the topics in their proper articles, where lengthy quoting and in-depth analyses should take place - the Islam article is a good example. Hinduism has innumerable gods, let alone saints, let alone views, and if we list every path we will have as many views as there are souls on Earth. We could, sure, quote or cite just the most famous ones, but an undisputed leader for some is barely known by others, so whe should keep it to a gentle minimum and make the main article a place of consensus and concordance as Hinduism itself.
We could then work on History of Hinduism, Geography of Hinduism, People of Hinduism, Timeline of Hinduism and so on. What do you think?
As for my contributions, I apologize to you all and to myself, but I've not touched the rewrite during the last week. I will have some free time soon.
Shanti, Subramanian talk 20:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
The following statement was deleted: "The Jain philosophy is deeply antagonistic about the existence of a God."
First, this is not an article about Jainism but rather Hinduism. If the intent is to claim that Hinduism is superior to Jainism, then that should be explicity stated. Secondly, the statement is incorrect. Jainism is not antagonistic about "God" but rather teaches that God is a set of inherent attributes of the individual soul.
Actually, the entire opening section reeks of the Indian inferiority complex: trumpeting Hinduism as superior to Christianity, Judaism and Islam; greater than Jainism; the vanguard of South Asian civilization; and older and wiser than all other religions combined. Is there anyone capable of not sounding so ridiculous when describing Hinduism?
What's the status of this article {{ featured}}, former featured article or {{ farcfailed}}? -- Sundar \ talk \ contribs 04:08, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
Agree that it doesn't deserve featured article status. Also, I just realized that this talk page has much traffic - so if my changes are not agreeable, feel free to revert and we can discuss. Tried to clarify the confusing parah on Karma and moksha - btw, don't think it belongs in the intro - maybe in another section for 'central tenets' of Hinduism? Also, changed intro which originally implied that Hinduism is only a collection of beliefs. It is a religion that is based on the Vedas, Gita, smriti etc.
I skimmed through some of the talk and am attempting to address some of the discussion.. The divergent beliefs that emerged are based on scriptures as the foundation. Even the illiterate that don't worship "hindu" gods are actually worshipping village protectors or other gods from the Hindu pantheon. They may not know the texts just as the many illiterate Christians in the 18th century couldn't read the bible - that does not mean the Bible is not central to Christianity. The 'keepers' of the religion, the brahmins, like the priests of other religions, did know the scriptures. A Kashmiri Pundit will recite the same Vedic mantras as one from Kerala - though it wasn't an organized religion, it spanned the subcontinent far before Shankaracharya. Also, Vaishnavism and Shaivism are different religions if seen from the perspective of western religions that view belief in a God(s) as the defining charecteristics of a religion. Hinduism on the other-hand, shares many beliefs across the diff flavours of the religion and is based on common ground.
Also, I think the challenges with defining hinduism are precisely because it is not an highly organized religion and hence no one voice that speaks for it. That does not preclude it from being a religion by itself with the features/tenets/ texts that bind it's followers. -- Pranathi 03:07, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
I made a few changes to the opening of this article, attempting to help the pace and better get across the basics of Hinduism without being to long-winded as it was (in my opinion) before. As the article states, 98% of Hindu's live in the Indian Subcontinent so it is foolish to think that they would come to an english online encyclopedia to learn the basics of Hinduism. It is primarily english speaking westerners like myself who would come here. For some reason, religious traditions of all kinds seek to carry over words from other languages into the one they are currently working in. This tends to cause confusion and so I began substituing 'Lord' for 'Sri' as we see before many of the more important names of Hinduism. I also made a few minor changes to sentences to make them more coherant and removed a paragraph from the opening as it seemed out of place and was simply rehashing information more clearly presented further down in the article.
I would like to start this article.I am search through google now. If anybody would like to recommend a link or collaborate, please let me know.-- Jondel 09:23, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
These sections are way too long. they need to be shorten and maybe expanded in their on wikis:
Talk:Hinduism/temp#Views_of_God Talk:Hinduism/temp#The_Bhakti_schools
I will make changes shortly. Please discuss objections, suggestions. Possibly..
Am adding this comment here because it is true for many articles on Hinduism.
Someone has commented above that this article it is a spouting of religious sentiment from the Hindu community online. I sort of agree but it is not too bad here. But read this one about Vibhishana.
What sort of an article is this ? It contains the sort of explanation that you will get if you ask your grandmother whether Vibhishana was right in betraying Ravana. Somewhere along the line we should stop being too pious and also tell the other possibility that Vibhishana was a mere traitor who betrayed his king-brother and sided with an invader to become the ruler of his country. Tintin 06:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Most people involved, I know I am, are tilted in favour of Hinduism. If you see anything here that needs to be changed/ balanced, please let us know or go ahead & change it. -- Pranathi 14:16, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
It's been going on for a year now. Isn't it time to finish this clean up of the Hinduism article? There's a lot of other articles we could focus like History of Hinduism and Hinduism by country articles. I'd like to get the Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism more active and coordinated. It would be more useful and help get more coordinated. -- Dangerous-Boy
I agree with you . some of those articles are pushing the limit. I guess it is impossible for anyone to be totally objective. I know that I have a slight bias towards Hinduism as well. Maybe we can form some sort of informal group to thrash out some of these articles - NuttySocrates 26 Sep 2005
Can we come to some sort of loose structure/rules for adding links? Without that, I can see the list growing endlessly..
I propose,
Any thoughts/objections? I will move and merge as mentioned if I don't hear anything in the next few days.. -- Pranathi 18:39, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Looks good. I'd only suggest include the '10 common questions..' on Hinduism-today's website as well.-- Pranathi 04:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
They'll soon be deleted. -- Dangerous-Boy
We need an elaborate criticsm section. I mean, it is a pretty messed up religion. -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.198.252.13 ( talk • contribs) 10:55, October 9, 2005 (UTC). diff also
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There are many major sects in Hinduism, for example the Sai Baba sect and Swami Narayan sect which are not mentioned in the article. I think the article is incomplete w/o any information regarding the two sects. Tx -- {{IncMan| talk}} 22:26, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
something like this-- Dangerous-Boy 23:07, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
There's an article called Criticism of Islam which discusses how scholars have critically analyzed Islam from various points of view. There is a section on Theological Criticism which discusses Islam from points of view of various other religions. It would be good to have a section on various Hindu views on Islam. Also, please read the discussion page.
Could anyone indicate something about resurrection in Hinduism? I've mentioned about resurrection in India at the resurrection. These can be copied and expanded. -- Jondel 05:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
The article now states that vaishnavas are the dominant denomination in India as per adherants.com. But this site lists only Vaishnavites, Shaivites, neo-Hindus and reform Hindus, and Veerashaivas. No mention of Smartas - can only think that's because they distributed smartas into the category of their ista devata or that smarta are such a small minority that they don't count? Any thoughts.. ? I am inclined to change that sentence back ..
On the additional wording on the cow .. However, consumption of carabeef (buffalo meat) remains and India is a leading exporter of carabeef [2]. Further, some of the lower caste people (Dalits etc.) also eat such beef variants. Evidence also suggests that consumption of beef was quite prevalent in Vedic India. [3] - I think this portion is irrelevant to the section which summarizes Hindu views on vegetarianism and cows. It mentions the ban in holy cities but not all of india - I can see how many 'Indians' may automatically extend that to the rest of India - but I don't see a need to assume that of the reader and make a deliberate attempt to negate that possible extrapolation - it makes the parah more defensive/corrective of assumptions than informative on Hindusim. Also, the evidence of beef consumption in vedic times is a controversial topic - see [4], I verified some of the vedic stanzas cited and they are okay. Since this is a summary and doesn't attempt to delve into the history of the taboo on beef, may I suggest that the discussion be moved to another page, where it is more in focus?
I can see maybe the predominantly abstain .. beef sentence in section as a contentious issue. maybe we can discuss alternate wording. We will need backup that large sections of lower caste Hindus (not India as a whole) eat it to say that practice is not predominant. -- Pranathi 00:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Deepak, I noticed you deleted the sentence citing adherants.com. The original sentence was: It should be noted however that the majority of Hindus do not fall under any of these denominations and tend to hold the most inclusive, the Smarta, viewpoint.
Since most non-brahmins don't classify themselves under any of the denominations, I think this holds true and in a sense attempts to explain the domination of the smartist viewpoint. Do you think we should replace it with this or leave it to the denominations page to sort out? I am open to either.
I will remove the addition on the vegetarian section shortly (as discussed above - that it is irrelevant to page on Hindusim - which is different from india as Dangerous-boy notes). Please discuss objections or rewording. -- Pranathi 22:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
The article is primarily on north based hindu traditions and little to nothing is spoken on the south indian rural hindu practices. eg. in AP there is someone called "pothuraju" who dances in a trance when "gods are upon him" in women its called "ammavaru". In Tamil Nadu there is even a village diety (aiyyanar) that is unique for each and every village who is sometimes given more respect. the strange customs of these hindus too needs to be mentioned. The south indian festivals and their cultural diversity in the rural hinterland seems entirely forgotten. Maybe someone can add them since I'm not an authority on this. Idleguy 06:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Anyone want to help out on History of Hinduism. It needs some work and organization. The goal is to make it as good as History of Buddhism. -- Dangerous-Boy 08:16, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Is reincarnation really a common belief among all Hindus? deeptrivia 00:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
It's time to pay some more attention towards Hindu festivals section. I think Hindu festivals are neglected by us and we can improve them a lot. I am working on Diwali festival right now.-- Holy Ganga 21:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually we ought to try to make it a featured article on November 1. deeptrivia 01:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
It shows up as:Hinduism (also known as Sanātana Dharma, and Vaidika-Dharma on my browser.-- Dangerous-Boy 01:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
It seems the entire article is only about Vaishnavism....heavily invaded by the ISKCON people. I have added lines explaining "Hindu", "Ishvara", "Brahman", "Vedas", "Puja" and entire section about Hinduism's view of other religions, assuming a "highly neutral point of view". Now please don't say that they are wrong! Also, I have readded a teeny bit on sacrifice. I had earlier presented the sad issue of animal sacrifice, with a neutral point of view while also saying it is now condemned, but it was deleted by some "Vaishnavite". Why? What do these people want to say? That anyone not conforming to their dogma, their "High Church" and their own concept of Vishnu worship, cow worship and vegetarianism is a non-Hindu? This is ridiculous. Just go to the temples of Nepal (in no way meaning disrespect) or Kali temples of Bengal and numerous other temples and see the boold sacrifices? Will the ISKCON church exocommunicate them?
By the way I am also a Hindu. Cygnus_hansa 23:13, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Fully agree with Pranathi.-- Holy Ganga 16:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Can some tag the image? -- Dangerous-Boy 22:06, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
The images are not tagged properly. It says they will be deleted soon. -- Dangerous-Boy 07:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Would anyone like to help out this article? It seems that his massacres and atrocities were left out. -- Dangerous-Boy 06:17, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Deepak, The referenced site says: As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change.
But the image says:
Hindus believe that every living being is an eternally existing spirit (the soul or the self). While changing its body at every moment, this soul passes from one form of body to another.
The second sentence seems wrong though.. that the body changes at every moment. I think it's Buddhist philosophy (or Jain?) that the universe flickers in and out of existance every moment. The sentence seems to reflect that thought- I don't think there is a similar theory in hinduism. Can anyone reference that concept (second sentence)? -- Pranathi 22:20, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I will change descr shortly... -- Pranathi 02:36, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Deeptrivia, I am wondering about the wording myself (.. is it the word you're after?). I know we use Brahman ubiquitously in this article - but I think Vaishnavites believe Brahman, the super soul, to be a creation of Ishvara. But if we use the term Ishwar - is that out of line with advaitic thought? Kind of out of my territory here.. if someone can clarify, hopefully we can use a universal term for the Supreme in hinduism.-- Pranathi 02:45, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Islamic conquest of South Asia is totally biased is an exhaults islamic invaders. Could really use some work. -- Dangerous-Boy 10:27, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Who is there reverting all the words "God" to "Divine". Some of his edits I have reverted. Also, the section of Nature of God is indispensible, you cannot change the title to nature of Brahman. This wikipedia is not meant for only Hindus who have drowned themselves into the Divine. People of all religions and cultures will read this page and they need to know what does Hinduism say about God in simpler terms! I well understand the seeming confusion between Brahman and Ishvara, having given my Indian Philosphy exam just yesterday, and hence the justification of "Divine", but for the sake of everyone else, lets keep it mostly God. Rather than keeping to the neutral point of view, people here are cooking up their own versions of Hinduism. I have also re-added belief in God in basic beliefs. Now don't say that it is not a basic belief. Or do you mean to say that over 50 % of Hindus don't this belief, in which case you'dbe justified? If God is not a basic belief, neither are reincarnation, karma, bhakti, yoga, etc etc, as I can too give nice arguments against them. In order to qualify deva in any point of view, I have also added "These Devas may variously be translated into English as gods, demi-gods, deities, spirits or angels." I also corrected minor mistakes in etymology, like the fact that Hind actually means the Republic of India. The Patanjali thing I shall find soon. I also added about the four Shankaracharyas and Char Dhams.
User:Magicalsaumy 203.199.51.148 17:50, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
I added one line on Shankaracharyas in Temple section because I think at least the 4 patriarchs out to have tiny bit of a mention. Cygnus_hansa 05:43, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
On Purushamedha, it was written that it is a human sacrifice. On Ashvamedha, it was written that the chief Queen of the King "copulates" with the dead body of the sacrificed horse, and the other three Quuen meanwhile utter "obsceneties". I have edited and corrected all that nonsense. User:Cygnus_hamsa 203.199.81.148 17:32, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Please note that the Sanskrit/Hindi अ is a mid vowel, like the a in ago, or e in later, and hence must be transcribed as the schwa 'ə'. अ is not a short form of आ, and simple unaccented 'a' means a short α:, which is a back vowel. The other two vowels, उ and इ have true short and long forms. User:Magicalsaumy 203.199.81.148 11:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Om is a symbol of God, and coudl also mean literally god and im wondering why Om isnt translated into god.
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Hindus in Bali and Nepal also have jaati system and wear Bindis. Naturally there are variations in India and outside India.
They have incorrectly been placed with other shurti texts like the vedas and upanishads, down at the bottom in the links section.
They are Ithihasas or Epics.
Above discussion is further evidence of negationist trend in Hinduism. To quote Nehru, whatever is not Islam is Hinduism. In the same way, our friend, despite being alloted a Wiikipedia topic to explain hinduism has to fall back on allah to explain some feature of Hinduism.
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-- ashwatha 21:51, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
--
As far as my memory serves me right, there were such restrictions regarding the utterance of Gayathri mantra in the past and Ramanujar or someone else was the first person to enunciate the mantra from atop a gopura in Sri Rangam so that non-brahmins could hear that. But, definitely the restriction is close to being not there in modern times except for an occasional weak cribbing by some orthodox brahmins. -- Sundar 10:48, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
I wrote two months ago in Talk:Hinduism : Images on Hinduism, for example Image:Sadhu(www.kamat.com).jpg, are not under the GNU Free Documentation License. Image page says: "This image is not licenced under the GFDL. It is under a non-commercial-use only licence." Doesn't this prevent republishing Wikipedia? Tero 16:02, 2004 Apr 24 (UTC)
See also a message by Jimbo. Should this page be added to copyright violations?
statue A three-dimensional form or likeness sculpted, modeled, carved, or cast in material such as stone, clay, wood, or bronze.
idol An image used as an object of worship.
icon- a usually pictorial representation (a conventional religious image typically painted on a small wooden panel and used in the devotions of Eastern Christians)
I think that in the usage of terminologies, common practice of usage should be respected, especially in the area where the usage originates or has maximum usage. In India, everyone uses the word idol only to mean the concrete form of deities, not statues( see meaning) and not icons( they have a Russian/ Byzantine context of use).
The argument that idol means a false God has no validity because in India we use idol to mean representation of God. I don't think it is right to choose terminologies solely on the basis of how the West views the same terms. As an illustration is the recent inclusion of so many Indian words in British dictionaries. KRS 06:23, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
A false god.
One that is adored, often blindly or excessively.
I believe the negative connotation of 'idol' originates in (and is limited to) the Judao-Christian culture. There is a well-known story in the Old Testament about how Moses came down from the mountain after communing with God and found his followers worshipping a golden calf. (I won't go into the details of the story.) This negative connotation is a classic example of cultural baggage. Don't know if there's an article on that but there should be. -- Smithfarm 16:16, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I agree with you completely, KRS. 'Idol' should not be used in place of 'statue'. However, Hindus essentially worship these 'statues' with ceremonies, so, wouldn't it be considered an 'Idol'? I see but still have questions, Websurfer11 00:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I need help from Hindus in an attempt to speak of a common ground among believers. Are there any Hindus here who could either help me or direct me to a group where I might find knowledgeable and mature Hindus willing to help me for a while explore the feasibility of a universalist Wiki type project on core universal truths such as possibly eternity, sacrificial love, and soul? Tom - Talk 06:59, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Here is a sentence in this article:
"caste plays a significant role in Hindu society, although it is now losing favor and is illegal in India."
This doesn't make sense - discrimination based on a person's caste is certainly illegal; but what does it mean to say that caste itself is illegal? -- ashwatha 17:35, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Though pretty late in the thread, I can definitively say that caste by itself is not illegal in India. In fact, the Tehsildars issue certificates (I hold one.) for one's caste so that they can avail some benefits (like reservation in educational institutions) if they belong to a backward or scheduled community. -- Sundar 10:52, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
Also late to the discussion...I believe the Indian Constitution outlaws the caste system in one of its early articles. But then in some later articles, the Constitution outlaws discrimination based on caste. In effect, the Constitution attempts to destroy the system but then proceeds to reinforce it by attempting to protect those who are most hurt by the system. Parthepan 07:12, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Look, caste is not illegal. Change the sentence. Make it say 'discrimination based on castes is illegal. Websurfer11 22:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
There is a debate which is causing some trouble on the God article. Please have a look @ Talk:God#Brahman and see if you can add your wisdom to our debate. Cheers, Sam [ Spade] 16:47, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The aspect of Karma in Hinduism is not written well and needs to be updated. If anyone who has a substantial knowledge of karma and can write well, please revise the Karma article from a Hindu point of view. Also if someone can write on the Hindu aspect of sin, that would be great. Raj2004 14:06, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC) Well, I consulted references and wrote the article. Raj2004 18:53, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
In CIA world fact book [1] hindus make 13.28% of world population which results in 850 million people. And even more intrestingly the Page (on hinduism on wikipedia) says 96% of hindus live in India now if I take statistics from Page of India Population of india is 1065 Million Hindus make 80.5 Percent (According to that Page) which result in 857 million. If they are 96% of the population Even this wont make 1.05 billion figure! At best it is below 890 million. Even by using Indias population and 96% argument Thanks with regards Zain 09:34, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Why is Bharat listed here and then followed by India in parentheses? I know Bharat is part of the nation's official name, but it is rarely used in everyday circumstances and even less so in the English-speaking world, which is what this article and and other articles in English in this encyclopedia are aimed at. The fact that Bharat redirects to an article entitled "India" should confirm its secondary position behind "India." Parthepan 07:12, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
I would like to see an article created on tattvam asi (or tat tvam asi), but I'm not sure if I feel comfortable writing it. Would anyone here be willing? I'd be willing to help, of course. Cheers, [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Wants you to vote!]] 13:54, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I am a senior in High School and i have written my senior research paper about Buddhist influences on the Hindu faith. There was no current information on the topic that i could find so i posted my entire paper. If there are any questions on the information that is posted, the references are as follows:
Edmonds, I. G. Hinduism. New York: Franklin Watts, 1979.
“How the World Worships: For Billions of People, the World’s Great Religions Offer Hope, Spiritual Guidance, and Meaning to Life.” Scholastic Update. Dec. 6, 1996: v 129 n7 p. 8(6). Student Edition. The Gale Group. Newark High School Library, Newark, DE. 2 Dec. 2004. < http://web5.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/ses>.
Jacobson, Doranne. “Hinduism and Buddhism: A Shared Heritage.” Calliope. Jan. 2000: v 10 i5 p. 26. Student Edition. Gale Group. Newark High School, Newark, DE. 17 Nov. 2004. < http://web5.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/ses>.
“Major Non-Christian World Religions.” World Almanac and Book of Facts. Annual 2002: p. 943. Student Edition. The Gale Group. Newark High School Library, Newark, DE. 2 Dec. 2004. < http://web5.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/ses>.
Perry, Marvin, et al. History of the World. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1995.
Rao, P. Venugopala. “Science and Dharma.” World and I. Ap. 2001: v 16 i4 p. 150. Student Edition. Gale Group. Newark High School Library, Newark, DE. 17 Nov. 2004. < http://web5.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/ses>.
Renou, Louis, ed. Hinduism. New York: George Braziller, 1962.
Morgan's addition------------
BUDDHIST INFLUENCES IN HINDUISM
The Aryans arrived in the Indus Valley around 1500 B.C. They came to India in search of land and animals and stumbled upon the Indus Valley and its people. Although they were warlike nomads who brought no physical mark on the Indus Valley such as art or architecture, they did bring with them their Vedic religion, which mixed with the philosophies and culture of the natives. Eventually the Hindu faith was no longer fulfilling the needs of the lower astes of Indian people and a new religion was formed from Hinduism known as Buddhism. Buddhism eventually disappeared in India as a separate faith, but not entirely. It left Hinduism with a few Buddhist principles. Therefore, Hinduism as it is practiced today, is the product of ancient Aryan beliefs, Indian customs, and Buddhist influences. Unlike most religions, Hinduism has no single founder. Vedism, the Aryan religion, was considered the earliest form of Hinduism, but as time progressed the Upanishads were written, and a more modern Vedic religion aroused, known as Hinduism. This form of Hinduism was founded around 500 B.C. Although some of the Vedic “framework” was lost, the Vedas were still important because they were some of the few sacred texts consulted. The Vedas contain magical prayers, cosmic speculation, and possible myths of the origin of the universe. They also contain teachings and commentaries. A large part of the Vedic religion that was passed down to the Hindu religion is the sacrificing of food. They sacrificed plants and sometimes animals. The Vedic religion was also the first of all to develop mythology. There were three major gods: Indra, the protector, Agni, the god of fire, and Soma, the god of plants and liquor. Hindus also worshiped natural spirits of wind, water, rain, and sky, as well as powerful gods such as the creator, the preserver, and the destroyer. The Vedas ideas of form combined with the culture of the natives and brought structure to Hinduism. The Indus Valley peoples and the Aryans developed a caste system. The caste system is Hinduism’s way to distinguish society into stages of existence as a Hindu. The castes included brahmin or priests as the highest order, then warrior nobles known as the kshatriya, then there were the vaisya or the common people, and lastly there were the sudra who were also known as the laboring class. The Hindu caste system was rigid and people of one caste could not move to another caste, marry a person from another caste, or even associate with a person of a different caste outside of daily tasks or else they would risk “spiritual pollution”. After Hinduism had formed, it became a way of life for the people of the Indus Valley. It not only guided them through daily life via their dharma, but it also led them through spiritual matters. The Ancient Hindu faith consists of several characteristics, one of which is the concept of a cycle of life, or reincarnation, controlled by karma. A person’s karma, caste, and dharma are closely related. A person’s caste was determined by the amount of net good karma a person had. Karma is simply the total tally of good and bad deeds over many lifetimes, which are recorded in a “cosmic account book”. It determines the number of life cycles a person has and what they are reincarnated as. The greater their good karma, the higher in the caste system they were. If a person had committed terrible crimes, even as a priest, the highest caste, they could potentially come back as something as low as a worm. This cycle of rebirths is also compared to a wheel known as “samsara,” or “the wheel of life”. Each person’s soul is part of a Universal Spirit known as Brahman. Every Hindu’s “duty and desire” is to return to Brahman, to attain eternal bliss, by cleansing their soul of all impurities. A person can only escape the cycle of rebirths by gaining good karma. This is not simply doing good deeds, but also having pure thoughts and having complete devotion. Once a person’s soul, or atman, is completely pure, it can be sent to Brahman and Brahman will remain pure. Each caste contains a different dharma. A dharma is like a spiritual tradition, duty, and custom. It is important in obtaining good karma. It teaches that tradition overrides all and should always be done that certain way. A person’s dharma should not be questioned, only accepted. Dharma is considered the “’maintenance’ in the right path,” and a “moral obligation,” to a Hindu as stated in Hinduism. Another characteristic of ancient Hinduism is that worship of the gods became the central focus of Hindu practices. Gods known as Shiva (Siva), Vishnu (Visnu), and Brahma would be presented with flowers and scents. They even bathed, dressed, fed, adorned, and worshiped the gods through various measures such as fire and song. Brahmin performed complex rituals during these ceremonies. A Hindu prince by the name of Siddhartha Gautama, who later became known as “the Buddha,” was not satisfied with his religion. He sat under a fig tree for 49 days and gained enlightenment through intense meditation. Gautama discovered the four noble truths while in his meditative state. The truths are that every living thing suffers, suffering is attributed to desire, suffering stops when there is no more wanting, and living a proper life will bring a person to the state of Nirvana, which is a state of bliss and tranquility. The only way to escape the never-ending cycle of rebirths is to reach a state of Nirvana, or “not wanting”. The complex rituals and unending cycle of rebirths tired the Hindus and as the Buddha preached his word in India, the Hindus began to follow, especially those of lower castes. This religion appealed to those of lower castes because the state of Nirvana could be achieved within one lifetime. Since Buddhism was an individual religion, extreme meditation was needed to achieve “self-understanding”. “Buddhism emphasizes equality, compassion, and personal spiritual achievement." Some of the Buddha’s teachings are similar if not the same as Hindu beliefs. Both religions contained aspects in common, but they also were at variance with their concepts of heaven and hell, reincarnation, the caste system, and animal sacrifice, which made them different religions in their own. Buddhist’s thoughts on heaven and hell are that Buddhists believed that heaven was reaching the state of Nirvana and everything before Nirvana, life on Earth, is hell because there is constant suffering. Ancient Hindus believe only in the good and bad lives as directed by karma. There is no heaven or hell (Edmonds 15). Buddhists believe in both heaven and hell whereas ancient Hindus believe in neither. Although both Hindus and Buddhists believed in reincarnation, their ideas of it vary slightly. The Buddha’s believe that reincarnation is not for becoming pure. Rather, they thought that it was to gain self-understanding. The Hindus thought reincarnation was due to bad karma, and it was necessary for freeing one’s self from evils to become one with Brahman again. Buddhism rejected the caste system. The caste system, set up by the Hindu faith, segregated the people into levels of importance on the Hindu ladder to Brahman. This greatly conflicted with Buddhist views of equality, compassion, and personal spiritual achievement. Buddhist’s belief in equality of all beings led them away from animal sacrifices. Some Buddhists will not eat meat due to their strong beliefs of the holiness of animals. The ancient Hindus however, sacrificed animals and presented them to the gods as gifts. Eventually Buddhism faded as a separate religion in India. It did not, however, vanish completely from India; it left considerable marks on the ancient Hindu faith. Hinduism’s views of reincarnation, the caste system, heaven and hell, and even animal sacrifice were changed. Hinduism’s views of reincarnation absorbed the shorter-term characteristics of Buddhism while keeping its characteristics of Brahman being the universal pure spirit. Ancient Hinduism required complex rituals be performed with the help of a Brahmin, but by the influences of Buddhism, a pure soul has to be attained through yoga instead of the complex rituals aided by Brahmin, otherwise, reincarnation is inevitable. Many people do not agree with the caste system, however, it is still in effect in India today. People born into a particular caste will remain in that caste throughout that lifetime they will serve. Discrimination against a person who isn’t of the same caste is now outlawed by the Indian Constitution, but was very common before this as certain castes had to ring bells before entering certain places because it was impure to see people who were in a lower caste. Today’s Hinduism has engrossed some of the Buddhist thoughts of heaven and hell also. Ancient Hinduism did not contain hell. It only contained Brahman, which is a heaven-like state of pureness. Hinduism today contains both heaven and hell, like Buddhism does, the only difference is that Yama, the judge of the dead, can send a soul to either for a temporary time. Ancient Hindus sacrificed animals to the gods as gifts for them. Now many Hindus are vegetarians and believe that animals have souls. They believe some gods are in the forms of animals. Hindus now consider cows one of the most sacred animals for their milk and giving of life. It is a serious spiritual crime to kill a cow and even riots occur if someone were to kill one, even in an accident. The Aryan’s Vedic faith and the Indus Valley people’s customs blended and formed the religion of ancient Hinduism. From this religion came Buddhism, which eventually disappeared as a separate faith in India, but changed Hinduism into what is practiced today. “Hinduism gradually absorbed a number of important Buddhist teachings and attitudes”. Currently practiced Hinduism formed from the ancient Aryan faith of Vedism, customs of the Indus Valley natives, and the completely separate faith of Buddhism.
Morgan, there was mention of Hell long before Buddhism. It was mentioned in the Puranas as
Naraka and Lord Yama is the judge.
I would say Buddhist doctrines influenced
Advaita.
Brahman can be also be described as
Saguna Brahman or God with form, such as Siva, or Vishnu.
Raj2004 01:09, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This seems very inaccurate. A lot of the changes in philosophical viewpoint in Hinduism that are being ascribed to Buddhism occurred in primary form in the Upanishadic movement which swept India from around 1000 BCE to 300 CE. Buddha, in fact, obtained many of his terminologies and seed concepts from Upanishadic Brahmins, who came before him. It is a little simplistic and in fact unfair to Buddhism and Hinduism to narrow down their dynamic interchange so unrealistically. There needs to be more thought and discussion on this, because Buddhism certainly has influenced Hinduism, but not so straightforwardly as has been supposed above. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 20:06, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
Hello, we are having a polite debate / discussion on Talk:Pantheism about different sects of Hinduism (particularly Smartism and Arya Samaj) and their relationships with pantheism / Panentheism. The discussion is very esoteric and weighty, but both I and my partner are polite and thoughtful, and I think some additional input might be helpful. Thank you for your time, Sam Spade ( talk · contribs) 17:29, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
sadly, this article is very, very, far from being encyclopedic or even factual. It's a sermon. An eulogy. I made a few edits, but they do very little. The Vedas don't condone discrimination? Varna has nothing to do with skin color? I believe that many Hindus believe so (and this may of course be asserted), but that's just because most Hindus have never actually read the vedas, or if they have, they didn't bother to translate. The Rigveda, for example (9.73.5) talks about the blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates. dab (ᛏ) 17:30, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Ramashray 12:26, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I have no problem with attributing the belief that varna has nothing to do with skin color/ethnicity to specific schools or thinkers. I am only objecting to assertive statements "varna has in fact nothing to do with skin color". The problem is generally the ahistoricity of Hindu culture, i.e. people refuse to examine the history and emergence of their religion and are quick to say it's "eternal" etc. The "origins" section does in fact not talk about origins at all. It would have to briefly gesture at Aryan Invasion theory vs./combined with Indus Valley Civilization. Also, Soma should be mentioned, and the decline of the vedic pantheon ( Indra is not mentioned in this article!). dab (ᛏ) 13:35, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Ramashray 14:09, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Hello Dbachmann, Regarding the Rig Veda quote: The Rig Veda line you have mentionned has also been interpreted as meaning the sun which at dawn takes the night (black cover of the earth) away from the earth. "Tvac" also means surface of the earth, as is also written in the old Sanskrit dictionary by Monier-Williams: surface ( of the earth ) , i , 145 , 5 ; x , 68 , 4 AV. vi , 21 , 1 TBr. i , 5 , 5 , 4 ( [2], under "tvac"). So this could simply refer to the sun at dawn, that takes the night away. Also, light and dark have been used as symbols by all religions in the world. And also, for example, the Irish called the vikings "dark" after they were invaded by them. Dark and light are often used symbolical.
Also, the Rig Veda translations in English are old and not perfect, and because of the old age of the Rig Veda, even those who are able to read the text in Sanskrit are not able to interpret everything correctly. Unfortunately, many false claims and assumptions have been made of all kind, by all kind of people.
For a very good overview of different interpretations that have been made on the Rig Veda, please see Misinterpretations of Rigvedic history, a chapter from a book by Talageri.
Rig Veda has also this line about Indra: “Indra, you lifted up the outcast who was oppressed, you glorified the blind and the lame.” (Rg-Veda 2:13:12)
About Indra, Indra was a popular god worshipped in south india, and Indra is an important god in the tamil epic Silappadikaram and generally in South Indian literature (Tholkapiam, Purananuru, Paripadal Aingurunuru and Pattupaddu, (all of the Sangam period), also Seran Senguttuvan, and Illango Adikal) Because Shiva and Indra are similar, some people think that Indra and Shiva are basically the same god.
In the older part of the Rig Veda, there is no allusion to caste, but there is one that I know of in the younger part of the Rig Veda (RV 10:90:12), where the four castes are compared to the body of a man. In the Rig Veda, the word Varna is not used to describe caste, it means "lustre" in the Rig Veda.
Also, it is a religious text, and unfortunately no human religion has been entirely free from discrimination. Discrimination and the institution of caste has existed in all religions, the European system of aristocracy, priesthood, and king as the upper castes and farmers and merchants as the lower castes has also existed in Europe. And articles like Judaism and Islam also dont't focus on discrimination, which also exists in their religions. Also, untouchability is not mentionned in the Vedic texts.
I would like to make more comments, but unfortunately I don't have time at the moment. I highly respect most of your contributions, but unfortunately I think your comment from above is not fair and balanced. -- Machaon 18:25, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I have added an edited section here from the article. It is somebody's person opinion with no sources cited. It is very offensive, and is more suitable for discussion:
Monotheism and Hinduism: Most Westerners and the vast majority of Christians see Hinduism as a pantheistic or polytheistic religion. Hinduism is definitely a monotheistic religion and is represented in the concrete symbols of the Hindu Trinity. The many aspects of God are given a variety of names in Hinduism. Each 'God' will roughly correspond to how Christians, Muslims, and Jews all conceive of the same God but in different ways. These 'Gods' are invoked as intercessors on behalf of the faithful in much the same way that Christians, for instance, will pray for intercession from Mother Mary, Jesus, and others called Patron Saints of certain causes. St. Anthony is the Patron Saint of Lost Objects, so his name is often invoked during efforts to locate some object. One rather simple way to understand the usage of the 101 names of God in Hinduism is to use a human being as an example of a single entity that has many facets. A grown woman, for instance, has a name, e.g.Mary, but she is also called mother, sister, wife, daughter, cousin, aunt, grandmother, co-worker, neighbor, colleague, friend, laborer, driver, social director, enforcer, etc. Each of these terms describes but one aspect of the whole entity we call Mary. These aspects are distinct but not separate so they do not represent unique entities. They are parts of a larger whole. In this way, God is called by many names in Hinduism, but those names are merely descriptive of the many aspects of the single entity that many call God. A child may not even know his/her mother's 'name'. The neighbor or colleague may know her only as Mrs. Someone. No single person can know or describe the unique entity that is Mary. This parallel is appropriate for a number of reasons. In all monotheistic religions, God is seen as all powerful and unknowable. We cannot know his entirety. We cannot even name him effectively. Yahweh, Allah, God, Higher Power - these are all attempts to identify that which we see as the Supreme Being, the uknowable, ineffible I AM. To a small child, his/her mother is only a source of nourishment and comfort. As the child grows and learns more, he/she is able to identify more facets of 'mother' but he/she will never know all the facets as they are unknowable. In this regard, God is both known and unknowable. God is known by the attributes with which we label him - in the West we call God Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent and yet we are unable to define God in any more specific terms other than our feeble attempts at labeling the knowable aspects of him. So, to the common Hindu, the facets of God that are embraced are seen as the aspect(s) of the whole that can be understood or identified. There is no attempt to go farther than that. To better-educated Hindus, the facets are seen more like the Christian Saints. These aspects are knowable, anthropomorphic, and less than the Whole. The Christian Saints are humans who have performed miracles, are people through whom God spreads His message. They, like all humans, are part of the Supreme Being and like all humans who seek union with God, the saints are seen as residing in Heaven with God, parts of the Whole. Further, Christ-centered religions often seek to make each member of the religion a messenger for God (evangelism) and the religion. Hindus have no concept of this and do not seek converts. Rather, Hinduism is inclusive of prophets like Jesus and many consider him to be an Avatar - an incarnated God or His manifestation as a divine messenger who walks on Earth among Men. So Hindus do not seek to separate themselves from their fellows in their search for union with God. They see their religion as a method to attain Nirvana or redemption from the cycle of birth and death(which can be loosely defined as Heaven) by embracing all worthy prophets without regard to the label that prophet may put on himself. 5/25/05
Disclaimer: I haven't read the article line-by-line. I've just glanced through the article. So, correct me if I've got some things wrong. -- Sundar 11:26, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
1. Is Hinduism commonly called sanatana dharma?
2. Cow or a bull?
3. POV?
Following are my observations on Hinduism: -- Sundar 11:26, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
I've been raised as a practising Hindu and was taught a lot of hindu moral values throughout and hence I admire hinduism for many things, most importantly, it being not too organised a religion. Currently, I am an atheist, though. -- Sundar 11:26, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
I am not an expert in Sanskrit nor Hinduism, but I'm interested in writing systems. So I am addressing to all of you :-) Is the Devanagari text and/or Roman transliteration corect? Shouldn't विप्राः be transliterated as Viprāḥ ? Meursault2004 14:59, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hey thanks! Meursault2004 9 July 2005 02:32 (UTC)
Can you please help me to identify the place in the Wikipedia where the Hindu understanding of what is man/humanity is explained? I will be watching this page. Tom Haws 18:54, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
Would anybody be able to provide quotes from one the great teachers of Hinduism (like Moses and Jesus in Christianity) that express these teachings in a way that would fit in this statement? The great spiritual teachers of the world's religions have defined humans in terms of divinity and soul. According to Moses, "God created man in his own image...of the dust of the ground...; and man became a living soul." According to Jesus, "the kingdom of God is within you." Tom Haws 16:33, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
The article on major world religions states that Hinduism has 900 million followers worldwide, while this article states that it has 1.05 billion. I am suspecting that the sources (the one in this article has not been specified, BTW) are equally accurate, but I want to get it confirmed. If I'm correct, I suggest that we should change the wording from "1.05 billion" to "ranging from 900 million to 1.05 billion" in this article and maybe add a sidenote on the other article.-- GatesPlusPlus 14:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Why is this article continued as Hinduism II? Is it a good idea to have such an article? - Nat Kraus e 06:55, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
neither is Hinduism the "first religion to spawn other religions", since "Hinduism" is a collective term, spanning many "religions". If anything, "Vedic religion", not generally referred to as "Hinduism", did spawn Hinduism. The Vedas are not the oldest "scripture" by any definition, already because they are not "scripture", as in, they were not written down until the Middle Ages. So the removal of these statements was justified. dab (ᛏ) 10:57, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Ok, Dab I may concede partially. ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=scripture) Vedas however, may be the oldest traditions. ( see definition of traditions in dictionary.com) ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=traditions) Traditions are defined as a body of unwritten religious precepts and hence include oral traditions. Where is your evidence that the Vedas were written in the Middle Ages? They may have been written down much earlier, like 500 BC? or even earlier, such as 1500 BC? So you may not have evidence that the Vedas are not the oldest scripture. What would be a more neutral point of view is to say, that the Vedas are considered by many to be the world's oldest scripture and is accepted as revealed text by all Hindus. Or you can put in this: Nevertheless, the Vedas are considered to be the oldest religious traditions by many.
Hinduism may be a collection of basically two religions, Shaivism and Vaishnavism. Shaktism is really a sub-category of Shaivism and Smartism is a relatively later development. Raj2004 01:22, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
This is just to inform people that I want Wikipedia to accept a general policy that BC and AD represent a Christian Point of View and should be used only when they are appropriate, that is, in the context of expressing or providing an account of a Christian point of view. In other contexts, I argue that they violate our NPOV policy and we should use BCE and CE instead. See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/BCE-CE Debate for the detailed proposal. Slrubenstein | Talk 22:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
I had not come here for some months, and this article is today in a, let me say, less fit shape. I was really proud when it became a FA, but it has since endured many additions and the text does not flow properly anymore. There is also the problem of redundancy and unecessary length. We should make an effort to push it to a new "featured" version. I suppose all the great people who contributed to that before are here to help, along with some new people. What do you think? Subramanian talk 07:42, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
We need a Pracharak article. Sam Spade 15:11, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
The 1st paragraph states there are 3 million followers of "some form of Hinduism" in US.
The section describing geographic distribution states there are 1.5 million Hindus in the us.
Are we using different definitions of Hindu here?
are people serious about featuring two swastikas in the intro, the first of them a blown up thumbnail? I mean, I don't care, it just doesn't seem very appealing design-wise.
dab
(ᛏ) 07:05, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The OM is much, much more representative than the swastika for Hinduism. Considering also that the swastika was badly used in the past by the nazis and that is is not easily recognizable as a hindu symbol, shouldn´t it be further down on the article, rather than at the top? Subramanian talk 10:05, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
when making edits, so that you are not burying recent vandalism. An anon had removed most of the "Vedic" and "Caste" sections. dab (ᛏ) 10:19, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This article really needs a throughout rewrite and a cleanup. I lack the time to do this, but the "introduction" alone is five times longes than it should be and is very congested. Far away from brilliant prose. Subramanian talk 11:42, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) For Lord Siva´s sake, please check Buddhism. That standard is what we should strive for.
Image:Jain-swastika.jpg are people serious about featuring two swastikas in the intro, the first of them a blown up thumbnail? I mean, I don't care, it just doesn't seem very appealing design-wise.
dbachmann is a utterly offensive racist German who is NOT a hindu and knows nothing about Hindu culture. The swastika is the only non-syllabic holy Hindu symbol. This is as vile as a non-chrisitan Hindu complaining about the cross and then deleting images of the cross from Christian wiki pages. (imagine the hubris of a non-christian calling images of the "cross" as vandalism; then consider that dbachmann is doing exactly the same for the swastika).
Why is this German man dbachmann even concerned about Hinduism ?
He's got a hidden and very vile agenda. Deeply deeply offensive....
Please do not remove the swastika from this page. The religious, cultural, historic and contemporary significance for a billion indians is far FAR greater than what neo-nazi germans like wiki user dbachmann and others would have you believe. Be proud of your traditions.
In particular, vile racist dbachmann reflexively twitches when he sees the swastika. His native country of Germany is now trying to ban the symbol entirely in all Europe. That means no Jain or Hindu temples or scriptures or functions in Europe. This hysteria is fueled by people like dbachmann. Please do not listen to him.
Also remember that far-right organizations use the Christian cross and it was also used by the crusaders to slaughter millions of Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem and elsewhere. No one is trying to ban the cross because of that reason. Similarly because some racist organizations have used the swastika does not mean it's importance in both historical and contemporary India should be any means be trivialized.
dbachmann, you can go fark off. We don't like racists nor do we like your half-truths and unspoken slurs.
Hey, this is my bias: I´m a Hindu. But consider this:
But please note that:
Finally, one of the pillars of Hinduism is tolerance. Calm down when accusing anyone else. You were not firm: you were preaching. Subramanian talk 13:52, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Excellent swastika resource : http://www.gurudeva.org/resources/books/lg/lg_ch-07.html
dbachmann is a utterly offensive racist German who is NOT a hindu and knows nothing about Hindu culture.
The excitable contributor of the diatribe in the above section has been attempting to make a number of edits to the swastika article. These make a number of specific claims. One is that the left-facing form of the swastika is universally recognised in India as "evil" (his word) and that the form with the dots in the spaces is a "decorated" version, but that "formal" religious ceremonies only ever use the "undecorated" version. We would be grateful for any informed Indian contributors to comment on the validity or otherwise of these assertions. I am certainly not aware of the latter, and have only seen scanty support for the former view. Any comments, here or on the Swastika talk page would be welome. Thanks. Paul B 10:06 3 June 2005 (UTC)
Who changed the hinduism article?! The links and templates are all gone and information is missing!
Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism --- Dangerous-Boy
Can someone start an article on History of Hinduism? The History of Buddhism article is very good and it's sad that there's not one on Hinduism. -- Dangerous-Boy
Okay, I began the Rewrite. There´s still a lot to do, and I was appaled by the redundant text found it the core of the article, it´s a mess. I took too-specific information from the introduction and put it down. No information was lost. I also wrote a Brief Overview. Phew, the previous introduction discussed deep vedantic views but didn´t even state that Hinduism is a religion... 143.106.16.181 29 June 2005 12:11 (UTC)
Oka, so it´s at /temp. Please contribute. 143.106.16.181 29 June 2005 12:49 (UTC)
The picture stating cow is not a cow, mind u it an ox.
we seriously need to prune/organize the links. they are just piling up. compare the 'sanitary conditions' on Islam (only link to major directory, or everybody and their aunt will demand that their site be included). dab (ᛏ) 7 July 2005 12:59 (UTC)
Would anyone please care to comment on the importance or rôle of Jesus in Hinduism? Please see the discussion at Talk:Jesus#Poll:_Religions_Jesus_is_important_in. A complete review of various Hindu views of Jesus would be appreciated. Thanks. Tomer TALK July 8, 2005 18:53 (UTC)
Anyone not otherwise occupied might like to lend a hand @ Hindu deities. The intro especially needs work. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 9 July 2005 17:02 (UTC)
This article has degenerated into some metaphysical discussion of Hinduism from a religious viewpoint. I've reverted the edits as I really do not understand their point. Were they a religious discussion? A philosophical discussion? I just don't understand where the information was taken from. Mano1 22:29, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
I think the photo of the woman with Bindi should be replaced with another one. The fact that the head of the woman is covered will be interpreted wrongly by many people. 71.240.192.202 05:47, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Whats Hindu about? ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 18:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
I made a little box that can be easily updated so we could focus our efforts in Hinduism more efficiently.
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it's located on the WikiProject: Hinduism page. -- Dangerous-Boy
The article has degenerated even further; now it includes the doubtful historical timeline of dating hinduism's birth using astrology. Mano1 00:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Who are you 2 tamper with a precious article?? It provided me some authentic Information on Hinduism
Anybody know? -- Dangerous-Boy
I just wanted to get rid of this whole section. It was so bloated. -- Dangerous-Boy
Why remove sites with Hindu themes or affiliations like Shri Aurobindo, Chinymayananda and Vedanta institutions? -- 68.173.46.79 21:00, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
if you really want the revisions to be better, you should remove all of the religious overtones from it. The article has a very slanted point of view that is pro-hindu and anti-monotheistic religion. Further, the sections are all influenced by this view. Even the history section is non-neutral. Steelhead 04:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
However, Hinduism in reality is monotheistic, so it has to be mentioned somewhere in the article. DaGizza
Neutrality, it appears is rather subjective - some people find anything short of hinduism-denigration as "pro-hindu". Summarizing a few aspects of polytheism is "anti-monotheism" ?! Remove Hindu religious overtones from an article that talks about Hinduism ?! Using elements from contemporary vocabulary to describe Hindu spiritual traits is "revisionist " ?!
Here´s what we´re trying to do: It isn´t a problem to have a lot of text, but it becomes a problem when it is at the wrong article or when the text becomes too truncated due to excessive information. This old edit of Buddhism shows an example of a lot of a prose that is actually flowing, readable and therefore is not a problem, as well as a good introduction.
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As Hinduism is the richest religion by far in traditions and tolerance, we must see to when we are actually talking about something that belongs in the main article or when it should be properly summarized there and then expanded in another article. There at the right I´ve put a good guideline from another religion about topics we can explain in the main article, using good, exact prose, and then greatly expand the topics in their proper articles, where lengthy quoting and in-depth analyses should take place - the Islam article is a good example. Hinduism has innumerable gods, let alone saints, let alone views, and if we list every path we will have as many views as there are souls on Earth. We could, sure, quote or cite just the most famous ones, but an undisputed leader for some is barely known by others, so whe should keep it to a gentle minimum and make the main article a place of consensus and concordance as Hinduism itself.
We could then work on History of Hinduism, Geography of Hinduism, People of Hinduism, Timeline of Hinduism and so on. What do you think?
As for my contributions, I apologize to you all and to myself, but I've not touched the rewrite during the last week. I will have some free time soon.
Shanti, Subramanian talk 20:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
The following statement was deleted: "The Jain philosophy is deeply antagonistic about the existence of a God."
First, this is not an article about Jainism but rather Hinduism. If the intent is to claim that Hinduism is superior to Jainism, then that should be explicity stated. Secondly, the statement is incorrect. Jainism is not antagonistic about "God" but rather teaches that God is a set of inherent attributes of the individual soul.
Actually, the entire opening section reeks of the Indian inferiority complex: trumpeting Hinduism as superior to Christianity, Judaism and Islam; greater than Jainism; the vanguard of South Asian civilization; and older and wiser than all other religions combined. Is there anyone capable of not sounding so ridiculous when describing Hinduism?
What's the status of this article {{ featured}}, former featured article or {{ farcfailed}}? -- Sundar \ talk \ contribs 04:08, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
Agree that it doesn't deserve featured article status. Also, I just realized that this talk page has much traffic - so if my changes are not agreeable, feel free to revert and we can discuss. Tried to clarify the confusing parah on Karma and moksha - btw, don't think it belongs in the intro - maybe in another section for 'central tenets' of Hinduism? Also, changed intro which originally implied that Hinduism is only a collection of beliefs. It is a religion that is based on the Vedas, Gita, smriti etc.
I skimmed through some of the talk and am attempting to address some of the discussion.. The divergent beliefs that emerged are based on scriptures as the foundation. Even the illiterate that don't worship "hindu" gods are actually worshipping village protectors or other gods from the Hindu pantheon. They may not know the texts just as the many illiterate Christians in the 18th century couldn't read the bible - that does not mean the Bible is not central to Christianity. The 'keepers' of the religion, the brahmins, like the priests of other religions, did know the scriptures. A Kashmiri Pundit will recite the same Vedic mantras as one from Kerala - though it wasn't an organized religion, it spanned the subcontinent far before Shankaracharya. Also, Vaishnavism and Shaivism are different religions if seen from the perspective of western religions that view belief in a God(s) as the defining charecteristics of a religion. Hinduism on the other-hand, shares many beliefs across the diff flavours of the religion and is based on common ground.
Also, I think the challenges with defining hinduism are precisely because it is not an highly organized religion and hence no one voice that speaks for it. That does not preclude it from being a religion by itself with the features/tenets/ texts that bind it's followers. -- Pranathi 03:07, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
I made a few changes to the opening of this article, attempting to help the pace and better get across the basics of Hinduism without being to long-winded as it was (in my opinion) before. As the article states, 98% of Hindu's live in the Indian Subcontinent so it is foolish to think that they would come to an english online encyclopedia to learn the basics of Hinduism. It is primarily english speaking westerners like myself who would come here. For some reason, religious traditions of all kinds seek to carry over words from other languages into the one they are currently working in. This tends to cause confusion and so I began substituing 'Lord' for 'Sri' as we see before many of the more important names of Hinduism. I also made a few minor changes to sentences to make them more coherant and removed a paragraph from the opening as it seemed out of place and was simply rehashing information more clearly presented further down in the article.
I would like to start this article.I am search through google now. If anybody would like to recommend a link or collaborate, please let me know.-- Jondel 09:23, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
These sections are way too long. they need to be shorten and maybe expanded in their on wikis:
Talk:Hinduism/temp#Views_of_God Talk:Hinduism/temp#The_Bhakti_schools
I will make changes shortly. Please discuss objections, suggestions. Possibly..
Am adding this comment here because it is true for many articles on Hinduism.
Someone has commented above that this article it is a spouting of religious sentiment from the Hindu community online. I sort of agree but it is not too bad here. But read this one about Vibhishana.
What sort of an article is this ? It contains the sort of explanation that you will get if you ask your grandmother whether Vibhishana was right in betraying Ravana. Somewhere along the line we should stop being too pious and also tell the other possibility that Vibhishana was a mere traitor who betrayed his king-brother and sided with an invader to become the ruler of his country. Tintin 06:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Most people involved, I know I am, are tilted in favour of Hinduism. If you see anything here that needs to be changed/ balanced, please let us know or go ahead & change it. -- Pranathi 14:16, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
It's been going on for a year now. Isn't it time to finish this clean up of the Hinduism article? There's a lot of other articles we could focus like History of Hinduism and Hinduism by country articles. I'd like to get the Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism more active and coordinated. It would be more useful and help get more coordinated. -- Dangerous-Boy
I agree with you . some of those articles are pushing the limit. I guess it is impossible for anyone to be totally objective. I know that I have a slight bias towards Hinduism as well. Maybe we can form some sort of informal group to thrash out some of these articles - NuttySocrates 26 Sep 2005
Can we come to some sort of loose structure/rules for adding links? Without that, I can see the list growing endlessly..
I propose,
Any thoughts/objections? I will move and merge as mentioned if I don't hear anything in the next few days.. -- Pranathi 18:39, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Looks good. I'd only suggest include the '10 common questions..' on Hinduism-today's website as well.-- Pranathi 04:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
They'll soon be deleted. -- Dangerous-Boy
We need an elaborate criticsm section. I mean, it is a pretty messed up religion. -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.198.252.13 ( talk • contribs) 10:55, October 9, 2005 (UTC). diff also
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There are many major sects in Hinduism, for example the Sai Baba sect and Swami Narayan sect which are not mentioned in the article. I think the article is incomplete w/o any information regarding the two sects. Tx -- {{IncMan| talk}} 22:26, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
something like this-- Dangerous-Boy 23:07, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
There's an article called Criticism of Islam which discusses how scholars have critically analyzed Islam from various points of view. There is a section on Theological Criticism which discusses Islam from points of view of various other religions. It would be good to have a section on various Hindu views on Islam. Also, please read the discussion page.
Could anyone indicate something about resurrection in Hinduism? I've mentioned about resurrection in India at the resurrection. These can be copied and expanded. -- Jondel 05:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
The article now states that vaishnavas are the dominant denomination in India as per adherants.com. But this site lists only Vaishnavites, Shaivites, neo-Hindus and reform Hindus, and Veerashaivas. No mention of Smartas - can only think that's because they distributed smartas into the category of their ista devata or that smarta are such a small minority that they don't count? Any thoughts.. ? I am inclined to change that sentence back ..
On the additional wording on the cow .. However, consumption of carabeef (buffalo meat) remains and India is a leading exporter of carabeef [2]. Further, some of the lower caste people (Dalits etc.) also eat such beef variants. Evidence also suggests that consumption of beef was quite prevalent in Vedic India. [3] - I think this portion is irrelevant to the section which summarizes Hindu views on vegetarianism and cows. It mentions the ban in holy cities but not all of india - I can see how many 'Indians' may automatically extend that to the rest of India - but I don't see a need to assume that of the reader and make a deliberate attempt to negate that possible extrapolation - it makes the parah more defensive/corrective of assumptions than informative on Hindusim. Also, the evidence of beef consumption in vedic times is a controversial topic - see [4], I verified some of the vedic stanzas cited and they are okay. Since this is a summary and doesn't attempt to delve into the history of the taboo on beef, may I suggest that the discussion be moved to another page, where it is more in focus?
I can see maybe the predominantly abstain .. beef sentence in section as a contentious issue. maybe we can discuss alternate wording. We will need backup that large sections of lower caste Hindus (not India as a whole) eat it to say that practice is not predominant. -- Pranathi 00:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Deepak, I noticed you deleted the sentence citing adherants.com. The original sentence was: It should be noted however that the majority of Hindus do not fall under any of these denominations and tend to hold the most inclusive, the Smarta, viewpoint.
Since most non-brahmins don't classify themselves under any of the denominations, I think this holds true and in a sense attempts to explain the domination of the smartist viewpoint. Do you think we should replace it with this or leave it to the denominations page to sort out? I am open to either.
I will remove the addition on the vegetarian section shortly (as discussed above - that it is irrelevant to page on Hindusim - which is different from india as Dangerous-boy notes). Please discuss objections or rewording. -- Pranathi 22:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
The article is primarily on north based hindu traditions and little to nothing is spoken on the south indian rural hindu practices. eg. in AP there is someone called "pothuraju" who dances in a trance when "gods are upon him" in women its called "ammavaru". In Tamil Nadu there is even a village diety (aiyyanar) that is unique for each and every village who is sometimes given more respect. the strange customs of these hindus too needs to be mentioned. The south indian festivals and their cultural diversity in the rural hinterland seems entirely forgotten. Maybe someone can add them since I'm not an authority on this. Idleguy 06:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Anyone want to help out on History of Hinduism. It needs some work and organization. The goal is to make it as good as History of Buddhism. -- Dangerous-Boy 08:16, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Is reincarnation really a common belief among all Hindus? deeptrivia 00:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
It's time to pay some more attention towards Hindu festivals section. I think Hindu festivals are neglected by us and we can improve them a lot. I am working on Diwali festival right now.-- Holy Ganga 21:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually we ought to try to make it a featured article on November 1. deeptrivia 01:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
It shows up as:Hinduism (also known as Sanātana Dharma, and Vaidika-Dharma on my browser.-- Dangerous-Boy 01:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
It seems the entire article is only about Vaishnavism....heavily invaded by the ISKCON people. I have added lines explaining "Hindu", "Ishvara", "Brahman", "Vedas", "Puja" and entire section about Hinduism's view of other religions, assuming a "highly neutral point of view". Now please don't say that they are wrong! Also, I have readded a teeny bit on sacrifice. I had earlier presented the sad issue of animal sacrifice, with a neutral point of view while also saying it is now condemned, but it was deleted by some "Vaishnavite". Why? What do these people want to say? That anyone not conforming to their dogma, their "High Church" and their own concept of Vishnu worship, cow worship and vegetarianism is a non-Hindu? This is ridiculous. Just go to the temples of Nepal (in no way meaning disrespect) or Kali temples of Bengal and numerous other temples and see the boold sacrifices? Will the ISKCON church exocommunicate them?
By the way I am also a Hindu. Cygnus_hansa 23:13, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Fully agree with Pranathi.-- Holy Ganga 16:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Can some tag the image? -- Dangerous-Boy 22:06, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
The images are not tagged properly. It says they will be deleted soon. -- Dangerous-Boy 07:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Would anyone like to help out this article? It seems that his massacres and atrocities were left out. -- Dangerous-Boy 06:17, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Deepak, The referenced site says: As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change.
But the image says:
Hindus believe that every living being is an eternally existing spirit (the soul or the self). While changing its body at every moment, this soul passes from one form of body to another.
The second sentence seems wrong though.. that the body changes at every moment. I think it's Buddhist philosophy (or Jain?) that the universe flickers in and out of existance every moment. The sentence seems to reflect that thought- I don't think there is a similar theory in hinduism. Can anyone reference that concept (second sentence)? -- Pranathi 22:20, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I will change descr shortly... -- Pranathi 02:36, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Deeptrivia, I am wondering about the wording myself (.. is it the word you're after?). I know we use Brahman ubiquitously in this article - but I think Vaishnavites believe Brahman, the super soul, to be a creation of Ishvara. But if we use the term Ishwar - is that out of line with advaitic thought? Kind of out of my territory here.. if someone can clarify, hopefully we can use a universal term for the Supreme in hinduism.-- Pranathi 02:45, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Islamic conquest of South Asia is totally biased is an exhaults islamic invaders. Could really use some work. -- Dangerous-Boy 10:27, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Who is there reverting all the words "God" to "Divine". Some of his edits I have reverted. Also, the section of Nature of God is indispensible, you cannot change the title to nature of Brahman. This wikipedia is not meant for only Hindus who have drowned themselves into the Divine. People of all religions and cultures will read this page and they need to know what does Hinduism say about God in simpler terms! I well understand the seeming confusion between Brahman and Ishvara, having given my Indian Philosphy exam just yesterday, and hence the justification of "Divine", but for the sake of everyone else, lets keep it mostly God. Rather than keeping to the neutral point of view, people here are cooking up their own versions of Hinduism. I have also re-added belief in God in basic beliefs. Now don't say that it is not a basic belief. Or do you mean to say that over 50 % of Hindus don't this belief, in which case you'dbe justified? If God is not a basic belief, neither are reincarnation, karma, bhakti, yoga, etc etc, as I can too give nice arguments against them. In order to qualify deva in any point of view, I have also added "These Devas may variously be translated into English as gods, demi-gods, deities, spirits or angels." I also corrected minor mistakes in etymology, like the fact that Hind actually means the Republic of India. The Patanjali thing I shall find soon. I also added about the four Shankaracharyas and Char Dhams.
User:Magicalsaumy 203.199.51.148 17:50, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
I added one line on Shankaracharyas in Temple section because I think at least the 4 patriarchs out to have tiny bit of a mention. Cygnus_hansa 05:43, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
On Purushamedha, it was written that it is a human sacrifice. On Ashvamedha, it was written that the chief Queen of the King "copulates" with the dead body of the sacrificed horse, and the other three Quuen meanwhile utter "obsceneties". I have edited and corrected all that nonsense. User:Cygnus_hamsa 203.199.81.148 17:32, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Please note that the Sanskrit/Hindi अ is a mid vowel, like the a in ago, or e in later, and hence must be transcribed as the schwa 'ə'. अ is not a short form of आ, and simple unaccented 'a' means a short α:, which is a back vowel. The other two vowels, उ and इ have true short and long forms. User:Magicalsaumy 203.199.81.148 11:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Om is a symbol of God, and coudl also mean literally god and im wondering why Om isnt translated into god.