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Found a herb site/column with interesting additional information - not advertorial! Its also got some interesting points in the articles. http://www.bensorensen.com/DruidsGarden/articles.html History and Uses of Herbs Nesneros1982 ( talk) 22:53, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I've moved the following links here:
If you would like to add these back in per
Wikipedia:External links then please talk about it here first.
brenneman
(t)
(c)
14:13, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Also moved:
brenneman (t) (c) 12:28, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
I tried to redirect "herbaceous plant" here, rather than to "perennial plant", but for some reason the redirect doesn't seem to be working.
MrDarwin
01:16, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Have just been looking at some of the external links and they seem to be just advertising. --
219.90.234.191 11:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC) --
203.87.24.28
23:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Have cleaned up some links. One link did not work and the other lead to product pages (below are the ones that have been removed)
www.herbalremediesinfo.com/ Home Herbal Remedies Info
www.plantsavers.org United Plant Savers
www.herbsetc.com Herbs Etc.
www.impgc.com International Medicinal Plant Growers Consortium
Reading "a herb" makes my head hurt. Is this a British/American English thing that I shouldn't fix per the manual of style? moink 01:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Since the word "herb" is used in two very divergent ways in normal English as opposed to Botany, I'm splitting the botanical def into its own page (a revamped "herbaceous" article) which is linked on the herb disambiguation page. Krnntp 17:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Disambiguation is a wonderful way of saying devalued. Like herbaceous the meaning is lost. Hey there hopefully ( talk) 09:25, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
One thing I notice about the various herb articles( Rosemary being an example) is that many state outrageous claims about medical benefits and uses for cures w/o stating any references at all. Mint tea is stated as a "strong dieuretic". Indeed, a veritable menagerie of random non-culinary uses for herbs and spices have sprung up, with nearly none citing references. Question is: start deletin' or start referencin'? Curuinor 05:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
When I press to edit the See also section I get the references section etc and I cant see how to fix it. Coul;d sopmeone do so and then remove the clean-up tag, SqueakBox 01:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
The article says 'Herbs (IPA: hə(ɹ)b, or əɹb; see pronunciation differences) are plants grown for any purpose other than food, wood or beauty.[1] Such uses include culinary'. Culinary means 'of or relating to cooking'; they're used to flavour different foods. As they are part of what we eat, doesn't that make them food? 88.110.29.44 19:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I have changed the definition from " seed-bearing plants without woody stems, which die down to the ground after flowering" to "plants that are valued for qualities such as medicinal properties, flavor, scent, or the like." Both definitions are from dictionary.com, but given that herbaceous plants and herbs have been given distinct pages this secondary definition is clearly appropriate here. Bay leaves are a herb, but the trees are not herbaceous. Conrad Leviston ( talk) 04:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
So rosemary is a shrub, but according to the definition, that would make it a medicinal herb, not a cullinary herb. This is rediculous! Change the def so it's looser and can include those odd cases, or exhaustively list the exceptions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.102.71.37 ( talk) 03:48, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
In order to link Cannabis Sativa we need to establish a link to Rastafari through a reference. Thanks, ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 19:09, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
The definition given at the start in this version is "any plant that is valued for flavor, scent, medicinal, or other qualities". However the quotation is misleading. If you look at the original source, it says: "herb ... 1. a flowering plant whose stem above ground does not become woody. 2. such a plant [my emphasis] when valued for its medicinal properties, flavor, scent, or the like." So the correct definition from here is not "any plant ..." but "a herbaceous plant ...". This definition excludes e.g. Rosemary and Bay Laurel which the article includes.
The version of the New Oxford American Dictionary that came included in my Apple MacBook Pro gives the definition: "any plant with leaves, seeds, or flowers used for flavoring, food, medicine, or perfume ... a part of such a plant as used in cooking". According to Dictionary (software), this is the second edition, so I'm going to change the article to use this definition, which fits the content better. Note that it allows both the plant and the part used to be called herbs, which the old definition doesn't. Peter coxhead ( talk) 11:24, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
The source of the article said "an<!-- This article is written in American English, in which "an herb" MAY be correct (Depending on speaker's pronunciation) (see next para). Please leave unchanged as per WP:ENGVAR and WP:RETAIN. --> herb". This is a perfectly fair comment within the relevant policies and must be respected. However, it's not logical to immediately follow "an herb" with the pronunciation /hɜːrb/, i.e. the pronunciation in which "an" is incorrect. "An herb" goes with /ɜːrb/; "a herb" with /hɜːrb/. Better, in my view, is either:
For the present, I've chosen (1) above. Peter coxhead ( talk) 11:42, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
While I agree that pronunciation can be intrusive at the start of the lead para, I think it's essential here. This article has a long history of "correction" alternating between the different pronunciations. Since the IPA and an explanation has been included this has died down, but I'm sure it would return if we moved the explanation. Sadly many people do not read the rest of the article before wellying in with a change... I'm not sure why people should be so keen to correct this particular article – I suspect it's because it's a word that Brits and Americans don't often hear each other say, so an error is the only cause they can think of. Perhaps it's also relevant that in this case it's the Americans who use a more French style of pronunciation, which I think is less common than the reverse.
Having said all that, the current lead para is a mess – it was far clearer (though much too short) before this edit. For example, it's quite unnecessary to start with "except", as the point can be dealt with perfectly well later in the text or indeed in a hatnote. Richard New Forest ( talk) 09:57, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Please people start and article on this herb. 108.81.134.236 ( talk) 21:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
It would be nice if someone would start an article called " List of North American Plants" with a Native and Non-Native section that leads to links on the various North American Plants. 2602:306:C518:62C0:6800:3456:2F93:AB51 ( talk) 01:11, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
This is for the comfort of the reader only. I suggest expanding on the the single link given to harbaceous plants to include this very important botanical definition. The one Google spits out is great, but I can't see the source: "any seed-bearing plant that does not have a woody stem and dies down to the ground after flowering." It gives a clearer picture to the layman. -- FileComplaintHere ( talk) 05:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Might semi-protection be warranted here, due to the constant vandalism? Tharthandorf Aquanashi ( talk) 17:44, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( page mover nac) Flooded with them hundreds 08:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
– This article was just announced as this week's article for improvement. The single biggest improvement would be to move the disambiguation page to the base title and retarget incoming links to herb to more specific topics. "Herb" has at least 3 major plant-related senses: a "non-woody plant" (covered at herbaceous plant), plants used in herbal medicine (covered at herbalism, and medicinal herb), and leaves of usually non-woody plants used as culinary flavorings (as opposed to spices, which are not leaves; culinary herb redirects here and "herb" is the best overview of the culinary topic at present). Move the dab page to the base title in order to resolve incoming links that intend a more specific sense of "herb" and expand content on the culinary sense at culinary herb Plantdrew ( talk) 04:13, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
Currently history info is also contained within the different sections such as medicinal, culinary, etc. should we break up the history section completely by moving rest of the info into the relevant sections too? Matthew Ferguson ( talk) 18:56, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
I feel we are not discussing some uses of aromatic herbs that are not covered by religious or cosmetic sections. E.g. meadowsweet was sometimes strewn across floors in middle ages because of sweet smell.(Bown 1997) Should we start a new section for this? THere is after all the page strewing herb. Matthew Ferguson ( talk) 17:21, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Hello, Rebestalic here.
This page is about herbs, not comparisons between herbs and spices, so should the "Herbs generally refers to the leafy green or flowering parts of a plant (either fresh or dried), while spices are usually dried and produced from other parts of the plant, including seeds, bark, roots and fruits" section should be removed?
Thank you, Rebestalic ( talk) 06:10, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Hello, Rebestalic here again.
I'm a bit concerned about how the introduction repeats itsself--first, it says, "...that are used for flavoring and garnishing food, medicinal purposes, or for fragrances", and then, in the next paragraph, "Herbs have a variety of uses including culinary, medicinal, and, in some cases, spiritual.' I think this should be treated as a problem.
Thank you, Rebestalic ( talk) 06:13, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm thinking a table with columns something like this:
Species name (possibly also family, I know a lot of herbs are in the mint family)
Common name
Use (basically, just culinary/medical/religious/etc)
Form (there may be a better word for this... basically, aiming for the distinction of annual non-woody plant vs perennial non-woody plant vs shrub vs tree or whatever; and, either in the same column or a different one, which parts are typically used)
Or would something like that be better as a separate page? Does such a page already exist?... (I actually came here because I was wondering how many culinary herbs are vs aren't in the mint family, and if there are any other plant families that contain a lot of herbs) Tamtrible ( talk) 15:49, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm not so convinced that the material at User:Tamtrible/Table of plants used as herbs or spices is "wholly useless". Yes, it's a fork of List of culinary herbs and spices, so is "inappropriate" as a separate article. On the other hand, that article is a bare list, whereas the table has useful information in separate columns. I wonder if adopting the format of Tamtrible's List of culinary herbs and spices is a way forward? Peter coxhead ( talk) 14:15, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Herb article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | This article was selected as the article for improvement on 8 October 2018 for a period of one week. |
Found a herb site/column with interesting additional information - not advertorial! Its also got some interesting points in the articles. http://www.bensorensen.com/DruidsGarden/articles.html History and Uses of Herbs Nesneros1982 ( talk) 22:53, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I've moved the following links here:
If you would like to add these back in per
Wikipedia:External links then please talk about it here first.
brenneman
(t)
(c)
14:13, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Also moved:
brenneman (t) (c) 12:28, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
I tried to redirect "herbaceous plant" here, rather than to "perennial plant", but for some reason the redirect doesn't seem to be working.
MrDarwin
01:16, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Have just been looking at some of the external links and they seem to be just advertising. --
219.90.234.191 11:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC) --
203.87.24.28
23:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Have cleaned up some links. One link did not work and the other lead to product pages (below are the ones that have been removed)
www.herbalremediesinfo.com/ Home Herbal Remedies Info
www.plantsavers.org United Plant Savers
www.herbsetc.com Herbs Etc.
www.impgc.com International Medicinal Plant Growers Consortium
Reading "a herb" makes my head hurt. Is this a British/American English thing that I shouldn't fix per the manual of style? moink 01:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Since the word "herb" is used in two very divergent ways in normal English as opposed to Botany, I'm splitting the botanical def into its own page (a revamped "herbaceous" article) which is linked on the herb disambiguation page. Krnntp 17:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Disambiguation is a wonderful way of saying devalued. Like herbaceous the meaning is lost. Hey there hopefully ( talk) 09:25, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
One thing I notice about the various herb articles( Rosemary being an example) is that many state outrageous claims about medical benefits and uses for cures w/o stating any references at all. Mint tea is stated as a "strong dieuretic". Indeed, a veritable menagerie of random non-culinary uses for herbs and spices have sprung up, with nearly none citing references. Question is: start deletin' or start referencin'? Curuinor 05:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
When I press to edit the See also section I get the references section etc and I cant see how to fix it. Coul;d sopmeone do so and then remove the clean-up tag, SqueakBox 01:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
The article says 'Herbs (IPA: hə(ɹ)b, or əɹb; see pronunciation differences) are plants grown for any purpose other than food, wood or beauty.[1] Such uses include culinary'. Culinary means 'of or relating to cooking'; they're used to flavour different foods. As they are part of what we eat, doesn't that make them food? 88.110.29.44 19:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I have changed the definition from " seed-bearing plants without woody stems, which die down to the ground after flowering" to "plants that are valued for qualities such as medicinal properties, flavor, scent, or the like." Both definitions are from dictionary.com, but given that herbaceous plants and herbs have been given distinct pages this secondary definition is clearly appropriate here. Bay leaves are a herb, but the trees are not herbaceous. Conrad Leviston ( talk) 04:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
So rosemary is a shrub, but according to the definition, that would make it a medicinal herb, not a cullinary herb. This is rediculous! Change the def so it's looser and can include those odd cases, or exhaustively list the exceptions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.102.71.37 ( talk) 03:48, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
In order to link Cannabis Sativa we need to establish a link to Rastafari through a reference. Thanks, ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 19:09, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
The definition given at the start in this version is "any plant that is valued for flavor, scent, medicinal, or other qualities". However the quotation is misleading. If you look at the original source, it says: "herb ... 1. a flowering plant whose stem above ground does not become woody. 2. such a plant [my emphasis] when valued for its medicinal properties, flavor, scent, or the like." So the correct definition from here is not "any plant ..." but "a herbaceous plant ...". This definition excludes e.g. Rosemary and Bay Laurel which the article includes.
The version of the New Oxford American Dictionary that came included in my Apple MacBook Pro gives the definition: "any plant with leaves, seeds, or flowers used for flavoring, food, medicine, or perfume ... a part of such a plant as used in cooking". According to Dictionary (software), this is the second edition, so I'm going to change the article to use this definition, which fits the content better. Note that it allows both the plant and the part used to be called herbs, which the old definition doesn't. Peter coxhead ( talk) 11:24, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
The source of the article said "an<!-- This article is written in American English, in which "an herb" MAY be correct (Depending on speaker's pronunciation) (see next para). Please leave unchanged as per WP:ENGVAR and WP:RETAIN. --> herb". This is a perfectly fair comment within the relevant policies and must be respected. However, it's not logical to immediately follow "an herb" with the pronunciation /hɜːrb/, i.e. the pronunciation in which "an" is incorrect. "An herb" goes with /ɜːrb/; "a herb" with /hɜːrb/. Better, in my view, is either:
For the present, I've chosen (1) above. Peter coxhead ( talk) 11:42, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
While I agree that pronunciation can be intrusive at the start of the lead para, I think it's essential here. This article has a long history of "correction" alternating between the different pronunciations. Since the IPA and an explanation has been included this has died down, but I'm sure it would return if we moved the explanation. Sadly many people do not read the rest of the article before wellying in with a change... I'm not sure why people should be so keen to correct this particular article – I suspect it's because it's a word that Brits and Americans don't often hear each other say, so an error is the only cause they can think of. Perhaps it's also relevant that in this case it's the Americans who use a more French style of pronunciation, which I think is less common than the reverse.
Having said all that, the current lead para is a mess – it was far clearer (though much too short) before this edit. For example, it's quite unnecessary to start with "except", as the point can be dealt with perfectly well later in the text or indeed in a hatnote. Richard New Forest ( talk) 09:57, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Please people start and article on this herb. 108.81.134.236 ( talk) 21:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
It would be nice if someone would start an article called " List of North American Plants" with a Native and Non-Native section that leads to links on the various North American Plants. 2602:306:C518:62C0:6800:3456:2F93:AB51 ( talk) 01:11, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
This is for the comfort of the reader only. I suggest expanding on the the single link given to harbaceous plants to include this very important botanical definition. The one Google spits out is great, but I can't see the source: "any seed-bearing plant that does not have a woody stem and dies down to the ground after flowering." It gives a clearer picture to the layman. -- FileComplaintHere ( talk) 05:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Might semi-protection be warranted here, due to the constant vandalism? Tharthandorf Aquanashi ( talk) 17:44, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( page mover nac) Flooded with them hundreds 08:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
– This article was just announced as this week's article for improvement. The single biggest improvement would be to move the disambiguation page to the base title and retarget incoming links to herb to more specific topics. "Herb" has at least 3 major plant-related senses: a "non-woody plant" (covered at herbaceous plant), plants used in herbal medicine (covered at herbalism, and medicinal herb), and leaves of usually non-woody plants used as culinary flavorings (as opposed to spices, which are not leaves; culinary herb redirects here and "herb" is the best overview of the culinary topic at present). Move the dab page to the base title in order to resolve incoming links that intend a more specific sense of "herb" and expand content on the culinary sense at culinary herb Plantdrew ( talk) 04:13, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
Currently history info is also contained within the different sections such as medicinal, culinary, etc. should we break up the history section completely by moving rest of the info into the relevant sections too? Matthew Ferguson ( talk) 18:56, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
I feel we are not discussing some uses of aromatic herbs that are not covered by religious or cosmetic sections. E.g. meadowsweet was sometimes strewn across floors in middle ages because of sweet smell.(Bown 1997) Should we start a new section for this? THere is after all the page strewing herb. Matthew Ferguson ( talk) 17:21, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Hello, Rebestalic here.
This page is about herbs, not comparisons between herbs and spices, so should the "Herbs generally refers to the leafy green or flowering parts of a plant (either fresh or dried), while spices are usually dried and produced from other parts of the plant, including seeds, bark, roots and fruits" section should be removed?
Thank you, Rebestalic ( talk) 06:10, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Hello, Rebestalic here again.
I'm a bit concerned about how the introduction repeats itsself--first, it says, "...that are used for flavoring and garnishing food, medicinal purposes, or for fragrances", and then, in the next paragraph, "Herbs have a variety of uses including culinary, medicinal, and, in some cases, spiritual.' I think this should be treated as a problem.
Thank you, Rebestalic ( talk) 06:13, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm thinking a table with columns something like this:
Species name (possibly also family, I know a lot of herbs are in the mint family)
Common name
Use (basically, just culinary/medical/religious/etc)
Form (there may be a better word for this... basically, aiming for the distinction of annual non-woody plant vs perennial non-woody plant vs shrub vs tree or whatever; and, either in the same column or a different one, which parts are typically used)
Or would something like that be better as a separate page? Does such a page already exist?... (I actually came here because I was wondering how many culinary herbs are vs aren't in the mint family, and if there are any other plant families that contain a lot of herbs) Tamtrible ( talk) 15:49, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm not so convinced that the material at User:Tamtrible/Table of plants used as herbs or spices is "wholly useless". Yes, it's a fork of List of culinary herbs and spices, so is "inappropriate" as a separate article. On the other hand, that article is a bare list, whereas the table has useful information in separate columns. I wonder if adopting the format of Tamtrible's List of culinary herbs and spices is a way forward? Peter coxhead ( talk) 14:15, 11 June 2021 (UTC)