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Harvey Alter, Michael Houghton en Charles Rice get the 2020 Nobel Prize for Medicine for the discovery of the HCV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:5084:DF00:5C96:AD9F:7496:9358 ( talk) 10:02, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
How hardy is it outside the body/liver? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wblakesx ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
in dried serum 5 days according to : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22013220; Doerrbecker J1, Friesland M, Ciesek S, Erichsen TJ, Mateu-Gelabert P, Steinmann J, Steinmann J, Pietschmann T, Steinmann E. Inactivation and survival of hepatitis C virus on inanimate surfaces.J Infect Dis. 2011 Dec 15;204(12):1830-8. doi: 10.1093/infdis/jir535. Epub 2011 Oct 19. "inavtivation of HCV with 70%-propanol-1 or propanol-1 in combination with glutaral, or QAC"- 1osecampo ( talk) 22:15, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Discussion of vaccination here is a little weak, and should perhaps be relocated to hepatitis C.
The statement that treatment with interferon is "palliative" does not belong under "vaccination", and is just plain incorrect. Sustained virologic response (SVR) happens in half (for genotype 1) or nearly 80% (genotypes 2 and 3), and is essentially a cure of the infection. Treatment is discussed in the hepatitis c article, so I removed it from this one. Scray ( talk) 06:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I notice that the image of the virus ( "Em flavavirus-HCV samp1c.jpg" ) is of uncertain origin. It was uploaded in November 2007 by user < PhD Dre >, but he or she did not indicate where the image came from. was it his or her own scientific research? was it published? if so, where is the citation for a scientific publication? I also note that < PhD Dre > has some, um, unhappy comments on his user page, which s/he concludes by saying "Goodbye, forever." Makes me kinda nervous. If a source - published or unpublished - for this image cannot be established, perhaps it should be considered for deletion. After all, almost *any* enveloped virion - for example, HIV or Hepatitis B - will look kind of like this image. In the early part of my career I was a molecular virologist working on HCV, and our lab tried (but failed) to get an EM of the virus. I believe that subsequently images *have* been obtained and published, but I'm uncomfortable with the fact that the provenance of this particular image is undocumented. Any other thoughts? - lanephil, 2/25/08 Lanephil ( talk) 22:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
The effort is obvious and appreciated, but extrapolation from other viruses is not valid. What is the evidence that there is a "protein shell" or that it is icosahedral? What is the evidence that there is an RNA core surrounded by protein (rather than intermingling of RNA and protein)? Without such evidence, the text and the new image are misleading. I'll wait a little to see if there's a reply before being bold. Scray ( talk) 01:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Transmission? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.132.161.31 ( talk) 15:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Isn't this diagram about 15 years out of date? Where's p7 between E2 and NS2? I'll try to find/make a better diagram if I have time Arkady darrell ( talk) 22:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I can't find anything stating whether the entire Hep C virus has ever been isolated and grown in culture. I don't think it has, but we should say so in either case. There is a 2007 Seattle Times article here, but it says "Scientists injected the cells into a culture with genetic material from the virus." I wonder if this is the same cDNA snippet of viral code found in 1989. Also, the article says that the "the next step in the research is to see whether laboratory animals can be infected with the laboratory-grown viruses." I think the author probably meant "laboratory-engineered", but regardless they apparently are still trying to meet at least that postulate. We might put this in the article as an update, but we have to be clear about what "genetic material" means. Any comments? BruceSwanson ( talk) 04:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Keepcalmandcarryon probably meant to say secondary-source research, since the Seattle Times I mentioned above is a secondary source. I think "laboratory-engineered" would have been appropriate because it's about a piece of genetic material from the virus being inserted into cells, not just the virus itself -- going by the story itself. Anyway, I think the story could be used as a reference in the article because it isn't original research.
I notice that Keepcalmandcarryon has no apparent objection to the real original research submitted for our approval by Scien tizzle, above, who concludes from it: I think it's safe to say that Hep C would be considered 'isolated and grown in culture' by any reasonable virologist, a veritable mother-lode of weasel words far indeed from a unqualified statement of fact. On the other hand, if he can come up with a secondary source with the same conclusion of sorts, fine. BruceSwanson ( talk) 18:34, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
My "second-hand interpretation" may indeed be completely irrelevant. But remember that it was made on the Talk page, as was my "I wonder if this is the same cDNA snippet of viral code found in 1989" query. Such speculations are perfectly acceptable for a Talk page if they are on topic and made in good faith, and if they're not they can be ignored. Your comment that my Talk query constitutes original research is rather odd, if I may be so charitable as to describe it that way.
It's true that the Seattle Times isn't a scientific publication and that may be a fair criticism. It also may not be. It depends on what is being verified or asserted. My Talk query was whether Hep C has been isolated and grown in culture. I suggested the Seattle Times article, with reservations, but it indeed may be useless for that purpose. The primary source document suggested by Scien tizzle, above, is exactly the kind of thing medically reliable sources warns about: Primary sources should not be cited in support of a conclusion that is not clearly made by the authors or by reliable secondary sources. . . . And so Scien tizzle is wrong when he concluded, above, "This is probably a useful review to use in the article" unless he uses it to assert some other conclusion or fact clearly evident in the abstract (not "review"). BruceSwanson ( talk) 17:52, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Is there a specific reason to assume this is not an electronmicrograph of the virus? Images can and should be removed if not acceptable under fair use or the GNU free documentation license, or if there is proof that the image is not actually what it is. Assume good faith and keep the image as it's better than nothing even if not perfect. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 22:39, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
There is a picture here from an NIH site...am I correct in remembering that images from US government websites are more readily usable? Images aren't my strong point... — Scien tizzle 17:52, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Though there are lots of images, which is great, the dearth of text means you end up with a lot of whitespace; stacking all the images in the lead right after the infobox removes this whitespace, but also means the images aren't linked to a specific section. I'm editing using IE, which sucks, but we should ideally set up the page to be equally readable for all browsers. I'm not saying my solution is perfect (far from it!) but it's one option. What do people think?
I've also converted the table on protein structures to simple prose - it was fighting with the image to no good end, and I can't really see a reason to have such a limited amount of information in a table when prose works just as well. I'm not wedded to the changes, so feel free to edit. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 18:32, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Take a look at this page, from the Stritch School of Medicine. It has some interesting tidbits from its Hep C historical-data page:
On the virus itself: It took 20 years to demonstrate its existence by nucleic acid analysis and still in 1996 we cannot see it with electron microscopy The reason is that its concentration in the blood is very low, probably 1-10 virions per ml.
And again further on: We don't know the structure of the HCV because the virus has not been seen yet with the electron microscope due to the very scarce concentration of viral particles in the blood and tissues. Probably only 1-10 virions per ml are present in the blood. (Remember that PCR was in use in 1996.)
Compare that with this unreferenced claim from the article: HCV has a high rate of replication with approximately one trillion particles produced each day in an infected individual.
So it seems that as of 1996 the virus had never been seen, although you'd think that with a trillion new particles per day, catching a few would be relatively easy. But as of now only PhD_Dre has (claimed to have) made an EM of it, and its validity is vigorously defended by the majority of editors. But Corbis still labels its Yellow Fever images as being Hep C (see discussion here and here).
You'd think that when the virus was finally found via EM, it would have made some news and possibly even news in a secondary source. And a trillion virions produced per day, presumably even in asymptomatic individuals? And no footnote? BruceSwanson ( talk) 01:57, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
What correction(s) am I suggesting, specifically? First, since one of the principles of Wikipedia is verifiability, I'm suggesting that the sentence asserting asserting 1-10 virions per ml be included in the article with the reference.
Second, the assertion that the virus had not been seem as of 1996 be included, with the reference.
You wrote: I don't know that there are excellent, well-sourced, free images though and followed that with I don't see any problem with the image displayed - the characteristics depicted represent current consensus on HCV virions. I think that's a bit of a non-sequitur. Can you call the present image well-sourced? I might add that reliable-sourced pay-sites for high-quality Hep C images display Yellow Fever and not Hep C, with the implied explanation that Yellow Fever is prototype. (I discuss that here in a bit of original research.)
The two primary sources you cite are typical of the breed (and how tired one gets of seeing them) -- abstracts only, presented in specialized knowledge from which conclusions are drawn, in violation of Wikipedia's policy regarding primary sources. BruceSwanson ( talk) 13:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Scray: Can we assume on good faith that you will read the complete papers ( PMID 19751943, PMID 10720503, and PMID 9756471) and not just their abstracts? BruceSwanson ( talk) 16:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Readers, Scray wrote parenthetically, above, that the deleted source was not peer-reviewed, as if that is a criteria for deletion. This is that source Scray deleted. It's from the website for Stritch medical school. It is a secondary source, which is supposedly preferred in Wikipedia. And is the information actually incorrect? As Scray wrote, above, . . . viral production rates do not directly determine abundance.
Speaking of sources, I've put a {{ fact}} after this doozie: HCV has a high rate of replication with approximately one trillion particles produced each day in an infected individual, which Scray is willing to let stand completely unsourced. BruceSwanson ( talk) 15:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
I've got a new image of HCV from Charles Rice at Rockefeller University. See File:HCV EM picture.png. Do people want me to add a scale bar, using the original image of File:HCV pictures.png? Tim Vickers ( talk) 17:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Undent. Scripps is a photo source site. Tim got this direct from a medical researcher. What possible reason is there to question either the fact that it is an electronmicograph of a hep C particle, or alter the caption? As has been discussed before - images are bound more by AGF than RS. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 22:03, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Scray, Bartenschlater & Lohmann does mention lymphotropism, in the virus replication section:
". Apart from liver cells, there is strong evidence that HCV can also replicate in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) both in vivo and ex vivo or in experimentally infected B- and T-cell lines (see below). Such a lymphotropism may account for the numerous immunological disorders, in particular type II and type III cryoglobulinaemia, observed in more than 50% of chronic hepatitis C patients (Esteban et al., 1998 )."
Of course, it is ten years old and could be simply out of date. Also, is there now a (convenient) animal model for modelling HCV? Might explain the increase in knowledge about HCV since 2000. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 12:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
I do not think recent additions to this article are helpful in their current form. Most readers are not going to bother with any of this. They are a random collection of stats, mainly from primary sources, and no attention has been paid to logical flow and engaging prose. A lot of this could go into a table, but I doubt that much is needed at all. This is an encyclopedia – not an esoteric virology catalogue. Graham Colm ( talk) 23:00, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
might find this reference/review [3] of interest for the replication section, thank you-- Ozzie10aaaa ( talk) 01:09, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Ideal sources for Wikipedia's health content are defined in the guideline
Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically
review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Hepatitis C virus.
|
Harvey Alter, Michael Houghton en Charles Rice get the 2020 Nobel Prize for Medicine for the discovery of the HCV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:5084:DF00:5C96:AD9F:7496:9358 ( talk) 10:02, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
How hardy is it outside the body/liver? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wblakesx ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
in dried serum 5 days according to : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22013220; Doerrbecker J1, Friesland M, Ciesek S, Erichsen TJ, Mateu-Gelabert P, Steinmann J, Steinmann J, Pietschmann T, Steinmann E. Inactivation and survival of hepatitis C virus on inanimate surfaces.J Infect Dis. 2011 Dec 15;204(12):1830-8. doi: 10.1093/infdis/jir535. Epub 2011 Oct 19. "inavtivation of HCV with 70%-propanol-1 or propanol-1 in combination with glutaral, or QAC"- 1osecampo ( talk) 22:15, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Discussion of vaccination here is a little weak, and should perhaps be relocated to hepatitis C.
The statement that treatment with interferon is "palliative" does not belong under "vaccination", and is just plain incorrect. Sustained virologic response (SVR) happens in half (for genotype 1) or nearly 80% (genotypes 2 and 3), and is essentially a cure of the infection. Treatment is discussed in the hepatitis c article, so I removed it from this one. Scray ( talk) 06:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I notice that the image of the virus ( "Em flavavirus-HCV samp1c.jpg" ) is of uncertain origin. It was uploaded in November 2007 by user < PhD Dre >, but he or she did not indicate where the image came from. was it his or her own scientific research? was it published? if so, where is the citation for a scientific publication? I also note that < PhD Dre > has some, um, unhappy comments on his user page, which s/he concludes by saying "Goodbye, forever." Makes me kinda nervous. If a source - published or unpublished - for this image cannot be established, perhaps it should be considered for deletion. After all, almost *any* enveloped virion - for example, HIV or Hepatitis B - will look kind of like this image. In the early part of my career I was a molecular virologist working on HCV, and our lab tried (but failed) to get an EM of the virus. I believe that subsequently images *have* been obtained and published, but I'm uncomfortable with the fact that the provenance of this particular image is undocumented. Any other thoughts? - lanephil, 2/25/08 Lanephil ( talk) 22:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
The effort is obvious and appreciated, but extrapolation from other viruses is not valid. What is the evidence that there is a "protein shell" or that it is icosahedral? What is the evidence that there is an RNA core surrounded by protein (rather than intermingling of RNA and protein)? Without such evidence, the text and the new image are misleading. I'll wait a little to see if there's a reply before being bold. Scray ( talk) 01:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Transmission? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.132.161.31 ( talk) 15:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Isn't this diagram about 15 years out of date? Where's p7 between E2 and NS2? I'll try to find/make a better diagram if I have time Arkady darrell ( talk) 22:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I can't find anything stating whether the entire Hep C virus has ever been isolated and grown in culture. I don't think it has, but we should say so in either case. There is a 2007 Seattle Times article here, but it says "Scientists injected the cells into a culture with genetic material from the virus." I wonder if this is the same cDNA snippet of viral code found in 1989. Also, the article says that the "the next step in the research is to see whether laboratory animals can be infected with the laboratory-grown viruses." I think the author probably meant "laboratory-engineered", but regardless they apparently are still trying to meet at least that postulate. We might put this in the article as an update, but we have to be clear about what "genetic material" means. Any comments? BruceSwanson ( talk) 04:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Keepcalmandcarryon probably meant to say secondary-source research, since the Seattle Times I mentioned above is a secondary source. I think "laboratory-engineered" would have been appropriate because it's about a piece of genetic material from the virus being inserted into cells, not just the virus itself -- going by the story itself. Anyway, I think the story could be used as a reference in the article because it isn't original research.
I notice that Keepcalmandcarryon has no apparent objection to the real original research submitted for our approval by Scien tizzle, above, who concludes from it: I think it's safe to say that Hep C would be considered 'isolated and grown in culture' by any reasonable virologist, a veritable mother-lode of weasel words far indeed from a unqualified statement of fact. On the other hand, if he can come up with a secondary source with the same conclusion of sorts, fine. BruceSwanson ( talk) 18:34, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
My "second-hand interpretation" may indeed be completely irrelevant. But remember that it was made on the Talk page, as was my "I wonder if this is the same cDNA snippet of viral code found in 1989" query. Such speculations are perfectly acceptable for a Talk page if they are on topic and made in good faith, and if they're not they can be ignored. Your comment that my Talk query constitutes original research is rather odd, if I may be so charitable as to describe it that way.
It's true that the Seattle Times isn't a scientific publication and that may be a fair criticism. It also may not be. It depends on what is being verified or asserted. My Talk query was whether Hep C has been isolated and grown in culture. I suggested the Seattle Times article, with reservations, but it indeed may be useless for that purpose. The primary source document suggested by Scien tizzle, above, is exactly the kind of thing medically reliable sources warns about: Primary sources should not be cited in support of a conclusion that is not clearly made by the authors or by reliable secondary sources. . . . And so Scien tizzle is wrong when he concluded, above, "This is probably a useful review to use in the article" unless he uses it to assert some other conclusion or fact clearly evident in the abstract (not "review"). BruceSwanson ( talk) 17:52, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Is there a specific reason to assume this is not an electronmicrograph of the virus? Images can and should be removed if not acceptable under fair use or the GNU free documentation license, or if there is proof that the image is not actually what it is. Assume good faith and keep the image as it's better than nothing even if not perfect. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 22:39, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
There is a picture here from an NIH site...am I correct in remembering that images from US government websites are more readily usable? Images aren't my strong point... — Scien tizzle 17:52, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Though there are lots of images, which is great, the dearth of text means you end up with a lot of whitespace; stacking all the images in the lead right after the infobox removes this whitespace, but also means the images aren't linked to a specific section. I'm editing using IE, which sucks, but we should ideally set up the page to be equally readable for all browsers. I'm not saying my solution is perfect (far from it!) but it's one option. What do people think?
I've also converted the table on protein structures to simple prose - it was fighting with the image to no good end, and I can't really see a reason to have such a limited amount of information in a table when prose works just as well. I'm not wedded to the changes, so feel free to edit. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 18:32, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Take a look at this page, from the Stritch School of Medicine. It has some interesting tidbits from its Hep C historical-data page:
On the virus itself: It took 20 years to demonstrate its existence by nucleic acid analysis and still in 1996 we cannot see it with electron microscopy The reason is that its concentration in the blood is very low, probably 1-10 virions per ml.
And again further on: We don't know the structure of the HCV because the virus has not been seen yet with the electron microscope due to the very scarce concentration of viral particles in the blood and tissues. Probably only 1-10 virions per ml are present in the blood. (Remember that PCR was in use in 1996.)
Compare that with this unreferenced claim from the article: HCV has a high rate of replication with approximately one trillion particles produced each day in an infected individual.
So it seems that as of 1996 the virus had never been seen, although you'd think that with a trillion new particles per day, catching a few would be relatively easy. But as of now only PhD_Dre has (claimed to have) made an EM of it, and its validity is vigorously defended by the majority of editors. But Corbis still labels its Yellow Fever images as being Hep C (see discussion here and here).
You'd think that when the virus was finally found via EM, it would have made some news and possibly even news in a secondary source. And a trillion virions produced per day, presumably even in asymptomatic individuals? And no footnote? BruceSwanson ( talk) 01:57, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
What correction(s) am I suggesting, specifically? First, since one of the principles of Wikipedia is verifiability, I'm suggesting that the sentence asserting asserting 1-10 virions per ml be included in the article with the reference.
Second, the assertion that the virus had not been seem as of 1996 be included, with the reference.
You wrote: I don't know that there are excellent, well-sourced, free images though and followed that with I don't see any problem with the image displayed - the characteristics depicted represent current consensus on HCV virions. I think that's a bit of a non-sequitur. Can you call the present image well-sourced? I might add that reliable-sourced pay-sites for high-quality Hep C images display Yellow Fever and not Hep C, with the implied explanation that Yellow Fever is prototype. (I discuss that here in a bit of original research.)
The two primary sources you cite are typical of the breed (and how tired one gets of seeing them) -- abstracts only, presented in specialized knowledge from which conclusions are drawn, in violation of Wikipedia's policy regarding primary sources. BruceSwanson ( talk) 13:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Scray: Can we assume on good faith that you will read the complete papers ( PMID 19751943, PMID 10720503, and PMID 9756471) and not just their abstracts? BruceSwanson ( talk) 16:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Readers, Scray wrote parenthetically, above, that the deleted source was not peer-reviewed, as if that is a criteria for deletion. This is that source Scray deleted. It's from the website for Stritch medical school. It is a secondary source, which is supposedly preferred in Wikipedia. And is the information actually incorrect? As Scray wrote, above, . . . viral production rates do not directly determine abundance.
Speaking of sources, I've put a {{ fact}} after this doozie: HCV has a high rate of replication with approximately one trillion particles produced each day in an infected individual, which Scray is willing to let stand completely unsourced. BruceSwanson ( talk) 15:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
I've got a new image of HCV from Charles Rice at Rockefeller University. See File:HCV EM picture.png. Do people want me to add a scale bar, using the original image of File:HCV pictures.png? Tim Vickers ( talk) 17:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Undent. Scripps is a photo source site. Tim got this direct from a medical researcher. What possible reason is there to question either the fact that it is an electronmicograph of a hep C particle, or alter the caption? As has been discussed before - images are bound more by AGF than RS. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 22:03, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Scray, Bartenschlater & Lohmann does mention lymphotropism, in the virus replication section:
". Apart from liver cells, there is strong evidence that HCV can also replicate in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) both in vivo and ex vivo or in experimentally infected B- and T-cell lines (see below). Such a lymphotropism may account for the numerous immunological disorders, in particular type II and type III cryoglobulinaemia, observed in more than 50% of chronic hepatitis C patients (Esteban et al., 1998 )."
Of course, it is ten years old and could be simply out of date. Also, is there now a (convenient) animal model for modelling HCV? Might explain the increase in knowledge about HCV since 2000. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 12:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
I do not think recent additions to this article are helpful in their current form. Most readers are not going to bother with any of this. They are a random collection of stats, mainly from primary sources, and no attention has been paid to logical flow and engaging prose. A lot of this could go into a table, but I doubt that much is needed at all. This is an encyclopedia – not an esoteric virology catalogue. Graham Colm ( talk) 23:00, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
might find this reference/review [3] of interest for the replication section, thank you-- Ozzie10aaaa ( talk) 01:09, 31 May 2016 (UTC)