Hell Gate Bridge has been listed as one of the
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please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
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A fact from Hell Gate Bridge appeared on Wikipedia's
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Did you know column on 4 April 2024 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
All the images "may imply" that the Hell Gate Bridge is this pretty arch, but what about the portion of the bridge that runs on the viaduct up to the Bronx? - HiFiGuy 17:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
The Hell Gate Bridge may indeed be the worlds strongest ( however that may be defined ) steel arch bridge. The inapposite comment about the Sydney Harbour Bridge being modified due to the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York would appear to be unfounded. The Sydney Harbour Bridge has had no significant structural modification since 2 of the four railroad tracks were removed in 1957 and replaced by three additional road lanes ( for a total of 8 ). The only aspect of the Sydney Harbour Bridge which has been "reinforced" since 2001 is an increase in the number of Arab security guards employed to obstruct and annoy pedestrians and cyclists. Merkanmich 11:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment about strongest steel arch bridge removed as the Sydney harbour bridge is quoted as being the strongest steel arch bridge in the world (ref: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=heritage.show&id=4301067). The bridge has never been structurally reinforced since it's opening in 1932. It is speculated by this writer that the bridge is actually stronger than it needs to be under normal conditions, since the removal of two of the original four rail lines in the late 1950s. Two of the rail lines were replaced by two additional roadway lanes. Cityrail operates ~50000kg cars in 8 car sets giving each empty train a tare mass of approx. 400 tonnes. With two rail lines it would then be possible for a maximum empty loading of 800 tonnes, which equates to approximately 800 cars. Over two laneways of 1.6 km each, that would equate to 0.25 motorcars per meter of laneway, which is not a realistic traffic load unless traffic is near stationary. As such, there has been no need to re-inforce the bridge.
Additionally, any re-inforcements to the bridge would not make any appreciable impact to fending off a terrorist attack which would probably involve either a bomb attack or crashing an aircraft into the bridge.
Dick.clements 01:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Why is it called Hell Gate bridge? -- 209.244.30.253 ( talk) 07:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Have a close look at the photo "The approach to Hell Gate bridge under construction circa 1915":
Look especially at the towers on either side of the stretch of water to be crossed: they look nothing like the towers of the actual Hell Gate Bridge.
Look also at the curve of the approach: the curve is to the right; the curve of the approach to the north side of the actual bridge is to the left. The approach on the southern side is straight.
Look closer still at the photo. Especially at the collection of towers and structures in the area of the water crossing. The construction style appears to be nothing like the construction style shown in the photo "Hell Gate bridge under construction circa 1915", a photo which really does appear to depict the Hell Gate Bridge under construction. Indeed the bridge shown in "The approach to Hell Gate bridge under construction circa 1915" appears to be a bridge with 3 intermediate supporting arches and 4 spans. In other words, nothing like the actual single span bridge.
Curiously the source of both photos is given as: "Popular Mechanics" Magazine November 1915. Perhaps someone with access to old editions of "Popular Mechanics" could check this source information with a copy of the original magazine.
A couple of things may have happened:
Both the bridge pillars and the approach pillars in the photo are so distinctive that it must be easy to identify the real location and name of the bridge in the photo. It is a fascinating photo, and deserves to find its real home.
As to where that real home might be: I would suggest that the photo shows a rail bridge in some other major east coast US city. It could of course be a photo of a bridge anywhere in the world, but the appearance of the approach arches in both photos cited above is so similar that it would seem that both bridges were built around the same time, and in the USA.
Cricobr ( talk) 14:55, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
After a quick look at a series of candidate cities with Wikimapia I appear to have resolved the problem myself!
When I found that none of the candidate cities had any comparable bridge, I suddenly thought of the answer to the conundrum...
Strictly speaking the photo "The approach to Hell Gate bridge under construction circa 1915" DOES show the APPROACH to the Hell Gate Bridge. However, what is not clear in the caption is that the approach is photographed looking north from the top of the north tower of the Hell Gate Bridge itself, and that the bridge seen under construction is NOT the Hell Gate Bridge itself, but the Little Hell Gate Bridge. Today, although the Little Hell Gate has been eliminated by land reclamation, the Little Hell Gate Bridge itself, with its distinctive towers, and 3 intermediate supports appears to be still in place (perhaps someone from New York could confirm this).
Here is a Wikimapia link centred on what appears to be the centre support of the Little Hell Gate Bridge, with the distinctive towers of the entry portals clearly visible to north and south. A Wikimapia Place shows the approximate outline of the former Little Hell Gate. http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=40.791573&lon=-73.9231771&z=17&l=9&m=s&v=9
This photo would seem to confirm the continued existence of the Little Hell Gate Bridge as recently as 2007: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jag9889/2131213087/.
I will now update the actual Hell Gate Bridge page itself, and I will probably also make some changes to the Little Hell Gate page as well.
Cricobr ( talk) 15:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
At first glance I said, "No, that's the Bronx Kill span under construction; LHG has no great span that will hang from those towers with the round knobs, and the buildings shown on the north bank of the west end of the waterway and on the east bank of the Harlem River do not exist" but my own pic shows my error. Good work, all. Probably the buildings were demolished in the middle 20th century. Does the left edge of the Pop Mech picture show stones of the north tower of the main span? Jim.henderson ( talk) 11:44, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
What type of arch is this? A simple girder arch, with side-thrust into the towers? A tied-arch, where the deck restrains the side-thrust? Or a truss girder arch, where the arch itself is inherently stiff? Andy Dingley ( talk) 13:52, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
It is unlikely that either of these bridges took their main design influence from the Hell Bridge. It is much more likely that they took their design influence from Wylam Railway bridge on the Tyne which predates the Hell Bridge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.143.83.200 ( talk) 21:30, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
The history of the bridge, and its current condition as of the early 1990s, was covered in a 20-page article entitled "The Eighth Bridge" by Tom Buckley that was published in the January 14, 1991 issue of The New Yorker. -- AllTheGoodNamesWereTaken ( talk) 15:26, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Adding this here so others can decide if it makes sense to add. Would add as the main pic, but it's awfully wide for an infobox. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:44, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Bruxton
talk 16:39, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
5x expanded by Epicgenius ( talk). Self-nominated at 23:51, 8 March 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Hell Gate Bridge; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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|
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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|
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Article meets the necessary DYK requirements. Hooks are also good, and I favor ALT1 and ALT2 about equally, followed by ALT3 and then ALT0 (which I don't think would be that interesting to a general audience). Sounder Bruce 04:19, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Nominator: Epicgenius ( talk · contribs) 16:36, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Trainsandotherthings ( talk · contribs) 19:56, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Hi there, I'll be undertaking this review. While the article appears to be in excellent shape, due to its length and being busier than normal with my day job it may take me up to 2 weeks to complete this review.
Lead, infobox, images
The bridge carries two tracks of Amtrak's Northeast Corridor and one freight track between Astoria, Queens, to Port Morris, Bronx, via Randalls and Wards Islands.reread this for grammar, the words "between" and "to" don't really mesh the way you have them right now.
Development
where car floats towed railroad carsthe car floats carried railroad cars, the towing was done by tugboats.
Throughout the 1890s, the New York State Legislature considered various bills that would give the NYCR a franchise to construct a bridge from Long Island to the U.S. mainland, but to no avail.is there any more information available as to why the bills failed to pass at this point?
The connecting railroad was to pay a fee to cross the East River.Pay a fee to whom? The RTC?
Among other things, the aldermen wanted the bridge to use electric power exclusivelywanted trains on the bridge to use electric power, I presume?
and allow the city to add utility wires to the bridgeshould be rewritten as "and the city to be allowed to add utility wires to the bridge" or similar, so it doesn't conflict with the clause at the start of the sentence.
while John A. Gray received a contract to take soil samples for the bridgethe source is titled "New Bridge Work Let; Ready to Make Test Borings for East River Structures"." This is referring to soil borings (essentially drilling underground with a drill rig, taking soil samples, and investigating the depth and hardness of soil and rock) and should be linked to Geotechnical investigation. You could rework the sentence as "while John A. Gray received a contract to complete test borings for the bridge's foundation." I work as a geotechnical engineer so this is right in my wheelhouse, and I can totally see why you wrote the sentence the way you did, it's a pretty niche field.
Locomotive cranescan be linked to Crane (rail).
Operational history
During World War I, when the federal government took control of railroad lines in the U.S., the New York Central began using the Hell Gate Bridge,[150] allowing Long Island merchants to send productsit looks like part of this sentence got cut off. There's no period and it sure looks like you meant to include more here.
In 1934, the NH put up its share of the bridge as collateral for a $6 million loan from the Reconstruction Finance Corporationmight be worth adding the context that the New Haven was in financial trouble and ended up declaring bankruptcy the following year.
The NH faced financial shortfalls in the late 1960spoint of order, the New Haven went bankrupt in 1961. This section also neglects to mention both the New Haven's absorption into Penn Central at the end of 1968, and Conrail's takeover of Penn Central in 1976.
Amtrak took over the bridge itself, and the passenger services that used it, in the 1970scan we be more specific? A lot of things changed in the 1970s. I think the transfer happened in 1976 but I don't remember for certain.
As part of Penn Station Access, in the 2020s, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) upgraded the Hell Gate Line to accommodate the Metro-North Railroad's New Haven Line; this required long-term interruptions to bridge traffic.is cited to a source from 2004. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 23:12, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Description
The decks of each span are all made of concrete panels, which carry track beds with ballast; this was intended to reduce noise pollution.Might be worth clarifying this is not normal for a railroad bridge.
The layer of rock under the Wards Island tower is substantially deeper, descending more than 100 feet (30 m), and sits atop a deep caisson foundation.Doesn't the foundation sit on the rock, not the other way around?
The western viaduct is very similar to those above Randalls and Wards Islands, but the piers of the use shallow foundations due to the presence of gravel and sand under the viaduct.Looks like either you added extra words or some words got cut off here. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 00:36, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Usage
Impact
Spot checks
Hell Gate Bridge has been listed as one of the
Engineering and technology good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: May 11, 2024. ( Reviewed version). |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Hell Gate Bridge appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 4 April 2024 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
All the images "may imply" that the Hell Gate Bridge is this pretty arch, but what about the portion of the bridge that runs on the viaduct up to the Bronx? - HiFiGuy 17:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
The Hell Gate Bridge may indeed be the worlds strongest ( however that may be defined ) steel arch bridge. The inapposite comment about the Sydney Harbour Bridge being modified due to the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York would appear to be unfounded. The Sydney Harbour Bridge has had no significant structural modification since 2 of the four railroad tracks were removed in 1957 and replaced by three additional road lanes ( for a total of 8 ). The only aspect of the Sydney Harbour Bridge which has been "reinforced" since 2001 is an increase in the number of Arab security guards employed to obstruct and annoy pedestrians and cyclists. Merkanmich 11:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment about strongest steel arch bridge removed as the Sydney harbour bridge is quoted as being the strongest steel arch bridge in the world (ref: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=heritage.show&id=4301067). The bridge has never been structurally reinforced since it's opening in 1932. It is speculated by this writer that the bridge is actually stronger than it needs to be under normal conditions, since the removal of two of the original four rail lines in the late 1950s. Two of the rail lines were replaced by two additional roadway lanes. Cityrail operates ~50000kg cars in 8 car sets giving each empty train a tare mass of approx. 400 tonnes. With two rail lines it would then be possible for a maximum empty loading of 800 tonnes, which equates to approximately 800 cars. Over two laneways of 1.6 km each, that would equate to 0.25 motorcars per meter of laneway, which is not a realistic traffic load unless traffic is near stationary. As such, there has been no need to re-inforce the bridge.
Additionally, any re-inforcements to the bridge would not make any appreciable impact to fending off a terrorist attack which would probably involve either a bomb attack or crashing an aircraft into the bridge.
Dick.clements 01:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Why is it called Hell Gate bridge? -- 209.244.30.253 ( talk) 07:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Have a close look at the photo "The approach to Hell Gate bridge under construction circa 1915":
Look especially at the towers on either side of the stretch of water to be crossed: they look nothing like the towers of the actual Hell Gate Bridge.
Look also at the curve of the approach: the curve is to the right; the curve of the approach to the north side of the actual bridge is to the left. The approach on the southern side is straight.
Look closer still at the photo. Especially at the collection of towers and structures in the area of the water crossing. The construction style appears to be nothing like the construction style shown in the photo "Hell Gate bridge under construction circa 1915", a photo which really does appear to depict the Hell Gate Bridge under construction. Indeed the bridge shown in "The approach to Hell Gate bridge under construction circa 1915" appears to be a bridge with 3 intermediate supporting arches and 4 spans. In other words, nothing like the actual single span bridge.
Curiously the source of both photos is given as: "Popular Mechanics" Magazine November 1915. Perhaps someone with access to old editions of "Popular Mechanics" could check this source information with a copy of the original magazine.
A couple of things may have happened:
Both the bridge pillars and the approach pillars in the photo are so distinctive that it must be easy to identify the real location and name of the bridge in the photo. It is a fascinating photo, and deserves to find its real home.
As to where that real home might be: I would suggest that the photo shows a rail bridge in some other major east coast US city. It could of course be a photo of a bridge anywhere in the world, but the appearance of the approach arches in both photos cited above is so similar that it would seem that both bridges were built around the same time, and in the USA.
Cricobr ( talk) 14:55, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
After a quick look at a series of candidate cities with Wikimapia I appear to have resolved the problem myself!
When I found that none of the candidate cities had any comparable bridge, I suddenly thought of the answer to the conundrum...
Strictly speaking the photo "The approach to Hell Gate bridge under construction circa 1915" DOES show the APPROACH to the Hell Gate Bridge. However, what is not clear in the caption is that the approach is photographed looking north from the top of the north tower of the Hell Gate Bridge itself, and that the bridge seen under construction is NOT the Hell Gate Bridge itself, but the Little Hell Gate Bridge. Today, although the Little Hell Gate has been eliminated by land reclamation, the Little Hell Gate Bridge itself, with its distinctive towers, and 3 intermediate supports appears to be still in place (perhaps someone from New York could confirm this).
Here is a Wikimapia link centred on what appears to be the centre support of the Little Hell Gate Bridge, with the distinctive towers of the entry portals clearly visible to north and south. A Wikimapia Place shows the approximate outline of the former Little Hell Gate. http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=40.791573&lon=-73.9231771&z=17&l=9&m=s&v=9
This photo would seem to confirm the continued existence of the Little Hell Gate Bridge as recently as 2007: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jag9889/2131213087/.
I will now update the actual Hell Gate Bridge page itself, and I will probably also make some changes to the Little Hell Gate page as well.
Cricobr ( talk) 15:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
At first glance I said, "No, that's the Bronx Kill span under construction; LHG has no great span that will hang from those towers with the round knobs, and the buildings shown on the north bank of the west end of the waterway and on the east bank of the Harlem River do not exist" but my own pic shows my error. Good work, all. Probably the buildings were demolished in the middle 20th century. Does the left edge of the Pop Mech picture show stones of the north tower of the main span? Jim.henderson ( talk) 11:44, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
What type of arch is this? A simple girder arch, with side-thrust into the towers? A tied-arch, where the deck restrains the side-thrust? Or a truss girder arch, where the arch itself is inherently stiff? Andy Dingley ( talk) 13:52, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
It is unlikely that either of these bridges took their main design influence from the Hell Bridge. It is much more likely that they took their design influence from Wylam Railway bridge on the Tyne which predates the Hell Bridge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.143.83.200 ( talk) 21:30, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
The history of the bridge, and its current condition as of the early 1990s, was covered in a 20-page article entitled "The Eighth Bridge" by Tom Buckley that was published in the January 14, 1991 issue of The New Yorker. -- AllTheGoodNamesWereTaken ( talk) 15:26, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Adding this here so others can decide if it makes sense to add. Would add as the main pic, but it's awfully wide for an infobox. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:44, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
Bruxton
talk 16:39, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
5x expanded by Epicgenius ( talk). Self-nominated at 23:51, 8 March 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Hell Gate Bridge; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
---|
|
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
---|
|
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Article meets the necessary DYK requirements. Hooks are also good, and I favor ALT1 and ALT2 about equally, followed by ALT3 and then ALT0 (which I don't think would be that interesting to a general audience). Sounder Bruce 04:19, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Nominator: Epicgenius ( talk · contribs) 16:36, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Trainsandotherthings ( talk · contribs) 19:56, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Hi there, I'll be undertaking this review. While the article appears to be in excellent shape, due to its length and being busier than normal with my day job it may take me up to 2 weeks to complete this review.
Lead, infobox, images
The bridge carries two tracks of Amtrak's Northeast Corridor and one freight track between Astoria, Queens, to Port Morris, Bronx, via Randalls and Wards Islands.reread this for grammar, the words "between" and "to" don't really mesh the way you have them right now.
Development
where car floats towed railroad carsthe car floats carried railroad cars, the towing was done by tugboats.
Throughout the 1890s, the New York State Legislature considered various bills that would give the NYCR a franchise to construct a bridge from Long Island to the U.S. mainland, but to no avail.is there any more information available as to why the bills failed to pass at this point?
The connecting railroad was to pay a fee to cross the East River.Pay a fee to whom? The RTC?
Among other things, the aldermen wanted the bridge to use electric power exclusivelywanted trains on the bridge to use electric power, I presume?
and allow the city to add utility wires to the bridgeshould be rewritten as "and the city to be allowed to add utility wires to the bridge" or similar, so it doesn't conflict with the clause at the start of the sentence.
while John A. Gray received a contract to take soil samples for the bridgethe source is titled "New Bridge Work Let; Ready to Make Test Borings for East River Structures"." This is referring to soil borings (essentially drilling underground with a drill rig, taking soil samples, and investigating the depth and hardness of soil and rock) and should be linked to Geotechnical investigation. You could rework the sentence as "while John A. Gray received a contract to complete test borings for the bridge's foundation." I work as a geotechnical engineer so this is right in my wheelhouse, and I can totally see why you wrote the sentence the way you did, it's a pretty niche field.
Locomotive cranescan be linked to Crane (rail).
Operational history
During World War I, when the federal government took control of railroad lines in the U.S., the New York Central began using the Hell Gate Bridge,[150] allowing Long Island merchants to send productsit looks like part of this sentence got cut off. There's no period and it sure looks like you meant to include more here.
In 1934, the NH put up its share of the bridge as collateral for a $6 million loan from the Reconstruction Finance Corporationmight be worth adding the context that the New Haven was in financial trouble and ended up declaring bankruptcy the following year.
The NH faced financial shortfalls in the late 1960spoint of order, the New Haven went bankrupt in 1961. This section also neglects to mention both the New Haven's absorption into Penn Central at the end of 1968, and Conrail's takeover of Penn Central in 1976.
Amtrak took over the bridge itself, and the passenger services that used it, in the 1970scan we be more specific? A lot of things changed in the 1970s. I think the transfer happened in 1976 but I don't remember for certain.
As part of Penn Station Access, in the 2020s, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) upgraded the Hell Gate Line to accommodate the Metro-North Railroad's New Haven Line; this required long-term interruptions to bridge traffic.is cited to a source from 2004. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 23:12, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Description
The decks of each span are all made of concrete panels, which carry track beds with ballast; this was intended to reduce noise pollution.Might be worth clarifying this is not normal for a railroad bridge.
The layer of rock under the Wards Island tower is substantially deeper, descending more than 100 feet (30 m), and sits atop a deep caisson foundation.Doesn't the foundation sit on the rock, not the other way around?
The western viaduct is very similar to those above Randalls and Wards Islands, but the piers of the use shallow foundations due to the presence of gravel and sand under the viaduct.Looks like either you added extra words or some words got cut off here. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 00:36, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Usage
Impact
Spot checks