This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is the first Archive for Talk:HVAC This page contains archived information from Talk:HVAC We may want to break archives down by topic or thread later, for right now I just moved everything prior to 07 to this archive
Thank-you!
-- VegKilla 18:49, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
These terms are used a couple of times in the article but there is no explanation of what they mean and the differences between them. Could sombody please put this in.
thanks
Simple question:
A dehumidifier is often run in cold climates in winter to reduce the humidity in the house. This is done to keep water from condensing on the interior of the windows, which would happen if you had warm, moist air on the inside, and a very cold window pain. Hope that helps. Mr Minchin 14:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
uh-oh. It goes like this: many houses are leaky although "you" can't feel the leaks. Place your hand over an electrical outlet during a winter wind storm and you'll notice the outsid eair coming through the walls. These houses have often felt to be "Dry" in winter. Many new houses are much more airtight but still not airtight. Kitchen and bathroom vents, windows, doors, all let air in. These houses are often felt to be too humid in winter. In both cases, humidity can build up in the attic -- since water vapor is lighter than air. - Plus, many people want to reduce Relative Humidity to belwo the optimal growing conditions for Dust Mites. (ie. below 60% at 72F, 20C). Dehumidifying in winter is common. People used to humidify in winter more than they do now.
If you're talking about a dehumidifier, it goes into what amounts to a bucket in the bottom of the machine. This has to be emptied from time to time. I imagine "plumbed in" ones where the water goes straight down the drain are available, and presumably this is the case with air-conditioning.
Cold air being warmed up will always feel dry when warm. Its RH is low. Its drying capacity is high. Even if no humidity is removed by any de-humidifier, it will feel dry and it will be rrelatively speaking fairly dry comapred to what one is used to.
Can't see why steam radiators as opposed to water ones would make any difference. Radiators might be drier than air if the air being blown round were damp.
Air expands when heated, thereby increasing its ability to retain moisture. When it is cool outside, the warm air will tend to flow out of the house through structural leaks or an open door/window, carrying with it the humidity that was accumulated. BustlinSlug 23:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Could anyone enlighten me as to which software belongs this screenshot? The one in the caption...
Sorry if it's off topic, I'm just curious. -- Clapaucius * 22:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
I was in an HVAC Course at N.A.I.T and we used a program like that it was called SIMUTECH it simulates things that could go wrong and what will go wrong if certain things happen to your system. It is a good training program.
Is it possible to keep a very large room (L100m x W60m x H4m) comfortable for humans without removing water vapor from the air, when the very large room is in a country that has a temperate climate such as the UK or Northern Europe ? Teeteetee 19:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Well in the country you will get probably more moist air and you would probably have a higher humidity. So a Room L100m x W60m x H4m you should be able to keep comfortable very easy. You would just need a humidifyer for the winter time and a De-Humidifyer for the summer. you would also need probable in batween 20-30 diffusers for your system in this room but you can defenatly keep it comfertable
it is such a big room, the use is going to be for a bunch of people, from time to time, This is no residential application. Need a full-blown system, to handle air, to manage air, including heat and humidity/
The equation in the Natural Ventilation section was incorrect and I have now corrected it. It is disappointing, to say the least, that such a major error had occurred. We must learn to check and double-check equations before publishing them. - mbeychok 01:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the image because it had absolutely no relevance to the subject matter in this article and, to the best of my knowledge, it isn't even referred to in the article. How does something like this happen and why had it not been picked up by some administrator by now??- mbeychok 05:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I am removing the two photo images of a Honeywell thermostat because they have very little connection to the context of this article. I think that they could perhaps be better used in Thermostat article. - mbeychok 16:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
First of all, I wholeheartedly agree with you that HVAC has too much "how to" information
As for the photo image you added, would you mind if I altered it with two small labels: one label reading "Central vent duct" and one label reading "Typical outlet", both with arrows pointing to the respective items? Please let me know. - mbeychok 05:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Most new houses and buildings are very air tight, and the installation and use of air exchange systems for improving ventiliation while maintaining thermal efficiency has been on the rise since the mid-80s. Mugaliens
I know it is tempting, but don't add 'spam' links to Web sites. FactsAndFigures 12:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
This is in reply to the following request on my talk page:
I'm not a Wikibooks user myself, so I can't provide a more detailed guide than what follows:
I hope this helps. Sandstein 05:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I think there should be a section added to the article on comfort. It comes up a couple of times in the ventilation section, but HVAC does not exist solely to keep people from freezing to death or dying of heat exhaustion. Comfort is a significant goal of all HVAC systems, and pretty much every non-budget system that is sold in the U.S. is bought as much for the comfort benefits as it is for the efficiency gains. Take a look at any equipment manufacturer's website; other than on the lowest-end systems, the features they discuss are always focused on comfort aspects, and often to a greater extent than health benefits. Not that wikipedia should focus on comfort because it is part of the marketing discussion, but this reflects what consumers are interested in.
Also, there's a big technical difference between entry-level systems and the higher-efficiency, comfort-driven systems. The latter systems are the ones that push technology development (R410a refrigerant, multiple- and variable-speed operation, advanced filtering/ventilation/IAQ, zoning, processor-driven thermostats, fuel cell, geothermal, etc). In fact, now that I look over it, it seems like the article could stand some overall reorganization. I know that this is a work-in-progress, and a large section was just moved over to wikibooks, but we should discuss this.
There is quite a bit of crossover between the different areas of HVAC (some examples: centralized heaters/coolers share the same air mover; ventilation works in tandem with the heater/cooler air filtration system; heat pumps suppliment heaters/coolers; efficiency rules are different between systems, but environmental impact is related to all). Perhaps it would be clearer if we broke this up into a history section, a energy use & ecological impact section, an air quality section, a new technology section, information about government and independent trade groups (ASHRAE, ACCA, ARI, RSES, HRAI, GAMA, NATE, EERE), and brief sections that cover (a list, perhaps?) of specific heating/cooling/ventilation technologies. Oh, and another thing...in trades, HVAC is increasingly looked at as HVAC/R, to include refrigeration in the discussion. After all, refrigeration is about air movement and climate control, so there is (again) overlap with the other HVAC disciplines.
I would just be bold and get crackin on this, but I don't want anyone to think I'm vandalizing, so let's discuss.
Jeremy RBC 14:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
please explain what is the main purpose and advantages of reversed return pipe in chilled water systems.and also please the chilled water expansion tank and how to design the tank.thanking you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.17.254.129 ( talk • contribs) .
FYI -- I'm sorting, etc. the article to make it flow better. Also will be moving the detailed ventilation stuff to the ventilation and natural ventilation pages. FactsAndFigures 15:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC) (An ASHRAE guy)
Who added this to the bottom of the page, and why? Seems like a prank to me? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.57.103.237 ( talk • contribs).
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Looks like there are repeated problems with commercial links being added. Deleting the entire external links section (without embedding links elsewhere in the article) unfortunately would likely be the most effective method of reducing the added spam. What do you think? FactsAndFigures 12:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
The second paragraph sounds like a brochure more than an encyclopedia. Here it is, for your review:
"The HVAC industry is huge, worldwide, with career opportunities ranging from operation and maintenance, to system design and construction, to equipment manufacturing and sales, and to education and research. Annual sales are in the US$100's of billions. There are also hundreds of related local, national, and international professional, technical, trade, and labor organizations such as ASHRAE, SMACNA, ACCA, and AMCA, to name just a few, that support the industry and encourage high standards and achievement."
-- 198.203.175.175 17:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Are there more economic details of the HVAC industry? How many people are primarily employed in HVAC in the US? How many predominantly HVAC manufacturing and service employers are there? How many billions of dollars in products and services are sold per year? I think these figures, and links to major organizations, unions, and producers would add significantly to this article. 164.67.237.253 ( talk) 23:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
14:06, 22 April 2007 (UTC) I made some edits to the whole page to make each paragraph contain its own central idea or concept
(some paragraphs ran together) I also added some definitions, and several paragraphs
to entries to try to explain a few complex concepts a little more clearly and concisely. Johntindale
-- johntindale 15:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC) I added definitions to complete the following from the To-do list: There where several terms in the "Major Terms" section that where not defined in the HVAC article, and that I could not find an article for elsewhere.
List of terms:
I cannot create these articles because I do not what these terms mean.
Please either create articles for these terms, or define them within the HVAC article itself, and remove the links I created (instead of using links, just make the terms bold: once-through instead of once-through).
Is this just regional terminology for a fan coil unit, or is it a separate category of equipment? And if it's its own thing, how is it defined? This is (obviously) a question from someone not very familiar with the field. Great page, though. Very informative and not overly technical. This is why I love Wikipedia.
69.25.215.134
21:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
A fan powered box is simply a cabinet with a fan in it. Because there are so many applications in HVAC that use cabinet- mounted fans, sometimes generic terms are used to describe them all. johntindale ( talk) 14:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the heating section ends in an incomplete sentence. Please fix. -- Cromwellt| talk| contribs 22:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
This issue has apparently been resolved. johntindale ( talk) 14:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Partially true. It should read as "special chemicals called refrigerants." Freon is a company name. Freon makes / made CFC's, HCFC's, HFC's etc. Refrigerants are bought and sold as R-(number) not F-(number). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.47.38.3 ( talk) 20:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I can see how this is trying to explain that some people pronounce it "H-vac," but as an American speaker of English, I can't see "aitch" being pronounced as "H." The dipthong "ai" might occasionally be pronounced like that (like in "pain",) but at the start of a word I can't see it as anything other than a long "I" sound. I suspect other English-speaking countries would read that in different ways, too.
Wouldn't it work to just say that it's also pronounced "H-Vac"? Or use the phonetic alphabet. 192.174.37.50 ( talk) 23:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
As a confirmation (UK) I regularly hear the pronunciation heevac (he-vac?)presumably using the "e" from "heating"-- AndyCPrivate ( talk) 08:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
In the 2008 Nanotech/Cleantech forum sponsored by the California Institute of Nanotechnology and the Cleantech Institute, a new type of HVAC system was unveiled by Blue Earth Energy Systems using liquid nitrogen as a coolant and combining a traditional system with a Rankine cycle turbine. The resulting system reportedly uses only 13% as much energy as a conventional HVAC chiller.[1] |
This is nothing but advertising, and it certainly has nothing to do with the headline. And an internet search for "Blue Earth Energy Systems" turns up a webpage looking suspiciously like vaporware.-- Komodon ( talk) 05:24, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if this has already been discussed (the Talk archive is red-linked), but I'm sure I'm not the only editor who has noted that using an initialism for the name of the article runs contrary to naming guidelines. And more importantly, I doubt if one reader in a thousand has any clue what HVAC stands for. No matter how familiar it is to people in the field, I'm sure that it's utterly meaningless to everybody else. So I strongly urge changing the name to Heating, ventilating, and air conditioning. I'm also going to be taking Category:HVAC to CFD to get it expanded to Category:Heating, ventilating, and air conditioning. Cgingold ( talk) 14:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
From this edit it appears that we need a couple of examples to confirm that "HVAC" can also stand for "High Voltage Alternating Current", so: [1] and [2]. Looks like a WP:IDONTKNOWIT problem. -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 15:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
As you can see, There is an archive.
Talk:HVAC:Archive1 This archive contains everything prior to 2007. The talk page was getting a little difficult to navigate. Second, I created an introduction for Energy Efficiency, and sorted the following paragraph so that it flowed with the order of the main page.
johntindale (
talk)
14:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
It looks like it has been a while since anyone has addressed some of the issues and suggestions made in this talk section, so maybe we should clean it up a bit? I suggest creating a "talk archive" at the bottom of this page, and move some sections to it such as; questions and answers, completed to-do items, and other items that inhibit flow and are valid, but tend to clutter the page. I'll wait for suggestions, and begin moving some things gradually depending on input from other participants. -- johntindale ( talk) 22:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
How about simply archiving the stuff? Pzavon ( talk) 15:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
That's a good idea #REDIRECT
Talk:HVAC:Archive1
johntindale (
talk)
13:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
The link to
under "HVAC Formulas" in the "External links" section seems of questionable value to me.
The "Air Handling Unit Tonnage Output" section on that page is especially disappointing. The legend says TONNS = Dewpoint temperature in degrees F — not air-conditioning tons (12,000 btu/ton-hr). And the formula is for only sensible heat, not total (sensible + latent) heat.
The "Chiller Tonnage Output" section provides no units for "Energy output of the chiller".
The COP item in the "Chiller Coefficient of Performance" appears to be the result of copy-and-paste without adequate proofreading in that the legend says COP = Energy output of the chiller.
The signal-to-noise ratio on that page seems too low at this point to be the target of a link from an encyclopedia.
Is there a good reason to retain the link to http://www.computrols.com/formulas ? - Ac44ck ( talk) 20:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
I suggest simply merging this page with air conditioning. Air conditioning is already refers to dehumidifcation, heating and cooling of buildings. The term is thus very strange, unreferenced and no one will find this article when they search for it. -- KVDP ( talk) 11:51, 16 August 2009
heating, ventilation, and air conditioning needs to redirect to this article, because we are not all lazy about our commas. Likewise, Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning needs to redirect here. 98.67.160.118 ( talk) 13:57, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
The introduction to this article is long and hard to follow. At many resolutions even the top of the table of contents won't be visible when the page loads. Can we edit this down to a single introductory paragraph? Jminthorne ( talk) 01:49, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
The second paragraph is too detailed for introduction. The importance of HVAC should be detaily explained in the body rather than a summarised paragraph in introduction. Maviozan ( talk) 13:43, 4 May 2010
What do people think of splitting the "HVAC terms" section into a separate list article? It is unlikely it will ever be converted into prose, and in my opinion breaks up the article a lot in its current format. Of course any of the terms actually used in the article should be wikilinked so that will help the reader with unfamiliar words. Thoughts? Jminthorne ( talk) 02:10, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Hope I'm not being too verbose, but one more thought. Can we start an auto-archive on this talk page? I find it a little hard to navigate and I generally like having old topics moved out of sight. I'll start an archive bot in a few days unless there is an objection. Jminthorne ( talk) 02:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
In the spirit of johntindale's earlier efforts, I've added a to do template to the page. Jminthorne ( talk) 23:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
I removed the unreferenced tag since this article clearly has references. However, we also need more citations, so I added an article issues tag with some of the comments I've raised here. Jminthorne ( talk) 01:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I typed in Climate Control thinking about the global climate and wanting to know what scientists have figured out and what measures are being taken to develop human control of the Earth's climate and it redirected here. Is there an article that covers what I was looking for? If yes then there should be a disambiguation page. 68.84.184.56 ( talk) 00:33, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 22:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
HVAC → Heating, ventilation and air conditioning – Per WP:TITLEFORMAT. --Relisted. Red Slash 17:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Beagel ( talk) 17:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Do we need two articles - HVAC and Air conditioning? Biscuittin ( talk) 19:04, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
If a VAV is to produce 1135cfm. at a given room temperature
and is only producing 968cfm. at the same given room temperature as the above 1135cfm,
using a rule of thumb, approximate how may square feet are we not cooling within a this given space at the same given temperature — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.58.115.36 ( talk) 20:40, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
It should be spelled out in the main title, after which the abbreviation can be used. There is no need whatsoever for the Oxford comma, as no confusion could conceivably result. A merge is an excellent idea - currently it's all very bitty and unhelpful to the general reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.68.94.86 ( talk) 09:08, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Could someone discuss the term heat load (heating load). Jim Derby ( talk) 12:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Since this article is only listed as class C (but of medium to high importance), I did my best to turn the wall of text into (hopefully) clear sections and paragraphs. I removed only very little text, mostly I just re-ordered the existing paragraphs. Noggo ( talk) 20:58, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I went through the article again, but there's still lots to do. Since there is much overlapping/redundant information, I started to carefully take bits and pieces out and moved them to other articles, if they didn't already exist there. In general, a short explanation should remain here (to provide the whole picture), but not every last little detail needs to be explained in this article. IMHO, that's what the other articles (e.g. refrigeration cycle, heat pump, etc.) are for. The difficult thing of course is to know how much can be taken away safely. Noggo ( talk) 16:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
I have just released a new Template:HVAC, and added it to the bottom of the HVAC article. The template's purpose is to provide an overview of all Wikipedia articles related to the subject, and to allow quick navigation among them. Another purpose is to make it easier to see all the HVAC-related articles, so that they can be reorganized, coordinated, and improved. Please look at the template and (politely) let me know what you think, before I roll it out more generally to all the articles listed in it.
As you review the articles, you may notice that some of them partially overlap or appear to be redundant (for example, Forced-air gas and Heating system). Part of the purpose of this template is to reveal these overlaps (and also gaps in coverage). Do not remove apparently-redundant articles from this template. Instead, tag the articles themselves for merge or deletion, as appropriate. Only after the changes are complete should you remove the now-obsolete articles from the template.
This is only a first draft version of the template, so please feel free to add to the template any HVAC articles I somehow missed. The subcategories in the template are also a first try, and ideas for improvement are welcome.
Further discussion should be at Template talk:HVAC, so I will copy a version of this message over there. In the absence of a WP:WIKIPROJECT for HVAC, I suggest using that new Talk page as a place to discuss the overall cleanup efforts. Reify-tech ( talk) 21:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on HVAC. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The section "Geothermal heat pump" currently has a box "confusing or unclear" attached to it. However, in the article Geothermal heat pump#Differing terms and definitions the term is explained. Is the information there correct? If so, we could remove the box here. Noggo ( talk) 14:01, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Those opposing have provided strong, policy-based arguments against moving the page. Calidum ¤ 22:57, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
– Complete name, common and much easier tu understand than the abbreviation (jargon). Geny S. Soboes ( talk) 18:24, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is the first Archive for Talk:HVAC This page contains archived information from Talk:HVAC We may want to break archives down by topic or thread later, for right now I just moved everything prior to 07 to this archive
Thank-you!
-- VegKilla 18:49, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
These terms are used a couple of times in the article but there is no explanation of what they mean and the differences between them. Could sombody please put this in.
thanks
Simple question:
A dehumidifier is often run in cold climates in winter to reduce the humidity in the house. This is done to keep water from condensing on the interior of the windows, which would happen if you had warm, moist air on the inside, and a very cold window pain. Hope that helps. Mr Minchin 14:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
uh-oh. It goes like this: many houses are leaky although "you" can't feel the leaks. Place your hand over an electrical outlet during a winter wind storm and you'll notice the outsid eair coming through the walls. These houses have often felt to be "Dry" in winter. Many new houses are much more airtight but still not airtight. Kitchen and bathroom vents, windows, doors, all let air in. These houses are often felt to be too humid in winter. In both cases, humidity can build up in the attic -- since water vapor is lighter than air. - Plus, many people want to reduce Relative Humidity to belwo the optimal growing conditions for Dust Mites. (ie. below 60% at 72F, 20C). Dehumidifying in winter is common. People used to humidify in winter more than they do now.
If you're talking about a dehumidifier, it goes into what amounts to a bucket in the bottom of the machine. This has to be emptied from time to time. I imagine "plumbed in" ones where the water goes straight down the drain are available, and presumably this is the case with air-conditioning.
Cold air being warmed up will always feel dry when warm. Its RH is low. Its drying capacity is high. Even if no humidity is removed by any de-humidifier, it will feel dry and it will be rrelatively speaking fairly dry comapred to what one is used to.
Can't see why steam radiators as opposed to water ones would make any difference. Radiators might be drier than air if the air being blown round were damp.
Air expands when heated, thereby increasing its ability to retain moisture. When it is cool outside, the warm air will tend to flow out of the house through structural leaks or an open door/window, carrying with it the humidity that was accumulated. BustlinSlug 23:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Could anyone enlighten me as to which software belongs this screenshot? The one in the caption...
Sorry if it's off topic, I'm just curious. -- Clapaucius * 22:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
I was in an HVAC Course at N.A.I.T and we used a program like that it was called SIMUTECH it simulates things that could go wrong and what will go wrong if certain things happen to your system. It is a good training program.
Is it possible to keep a very large room (L100m x W60m x H4m) comfortable for humans without removing water vapor from the air, when the very large room is in a country that has a temperate climate such as the UK or Northern Europe ? Teeteetee 19:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Well in the country you will get probably more moist air and you would probably have a higher humidity. So a Room L100m x W60m x H4m you should be able to keep comfortable very easy. You would just need a humidifyer for the winter time and a De-Humidifyer for the summer. you would also need probable in batween 20-30 diffusers for your system in this room but you can defenatly keep it comfertable
it is such a big room, the use is going to be for a bunch of people, from time to time, This is no residential application. Need a full-blown system, to handle air, to manage air, including heat and humidity/
The equation in the Natural Ventilation section was incorrect and I have now corrected it. It is disappointing, to say the least, that such a major error had occurred. We must learn to check and double-check equations before publishing them. - mbeychok 01:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the image because it had absolutely no relevance to the subject matter in this article and, to the best of my knowledge, it isn't even referred to in the article. How does something like this happen and why had it not been picked up by some administrator by now??- mbeychok 05:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I am removing the two photo images of a Honeywell thermostat because they have very little connection to the context of this article. I think that they could perhaps be better used in Thermostat article. - mbeychok 16:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
First of all, I wholeheartedly agree with you that HVAC has too much "how to" information
As for the photo image you added, would you mind if I altered it with two small labels: one label reading "Central vent duct" and one label reading "Typical outlet", both with arrows pointing to the respective items? Please let me know. - mbeychok 05:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Most new houses and buildings are very air tight, and the installation and use of air exchange systems for improving ventiliation while maintaining thermal efficiency has been on the rise since the mid-80s. Mugaliens
I know it is tempting, but don't add 'spam' links to Web sites. FactsAndFigures 12:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
This is in reply to the following request on my talk page:
I'm not a Wikibooks user myself, so I can't provide a more detailed guide than what follows:
I hope this helps. Sandstein 05:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I think there should be a section added to the article on comfort. It comes up a couple of times in the ventilation section, but HVAC does not exist solely to keep people from freezing to death or dying of heat exhaustion. Comfort is a significant goal of all HVAC systems, and pretty much every non-budget system that is sold in the U.S. is bought as much for the comfort benefits as it is for the efficiency gains. Take a look at any equipment manufacturer's website; other than on the lowest-end systems, the features they discuss are always focused on comfort aspects, and often to a greater extent than health benefits. Not that wikipedia should focus on comfort because it is part of the marketing discussion, but this reflects what consumers are interested in.
Also, there's a big technical difference between entry-level systems and the higher-efficiency, comfort-driven systems. The latter systems are the ones that push technology development (R410a refrigerant, multiple- and variable-speed operation, advanced filtering/ventilation/IAQ, zoning, processor-driven thermostats, fuel cell, geothermal, etc). In fact, now that I look over it, it seems like the article could stand some overall reorganization. I know that this is a work-in-progress, and a large section was just moved over to wikibooks, but we should discuss this.
There is quite a bit of crossover between the different areas of HVAC (some examples: centralized heaters/coolers share the same air mover; ventilation works in tandem with the heater/cooler air filtration system; heat pumps suppliment heaters/coolers; efficiency rules are different between systems, but environmental impact is related to all). Perhaps it would be clearer if we broke this up into a history section, a energy use & ecological impact section, an air quality section, a new technology section, information about government and independent trade groups (ASHRAE, ACCA, ARI, RSES, HRAI, GAMA, NATE, EERE), and brief sections that cover (a list, perhaps?) of specific heating/cooling/ventilation technologies. Oh, and another thing...in trades, HVAC is increasingly looked at as HVAC/R, to include refrigeration in the discussion. After all, refrigeration is about air movement and climate control, so there is (again) overlap with the other HVAC disciplines.
I would just be bold and get crackin on this, but I don't want anyone to think I'm vandalizing, so let's discuss.
Jeremy RBC 14:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
please explain what is the main purpose and advantages of reversed return pipe in chilled water systems.and also please the chilled water expansion tank and how to design the tank.thanking you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.17.254.129 ( talk • contribs) .
FYI -- I'm sorting, etc. the article to make it flow better. Also will be moving the detailed ventilation stuff to the ventilation and natural ventilation pages. FactsAndFigures 15:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC) (An ASHRAE guy)
Who added this to the bottom of the page, and why? Seems like a prank to me? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.57.103.237 ( talk • contribs).
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Looks like there are repeated problems with commercial links being added. Deleting the entire external links section (without embedding links elsewhere in the article) unfortunately would likely be the most effective method of reducing the added spam. What do you think? FactsAndFigures 12:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
The second paragraph sounds like a brochure more than an encyclopedia. Here it is, for your review:
"The HVAC industry is huge, worldwide, with career opportunities ranging from operation and maintenance, to system design and construction, to equipment manufacturing and sales, and to education and research. Annual sales are in the US$100's of billions. There are also hundreds of related local, national, and international professional, technical, trade, and labor organizations such as ASHRAE, SMACNA, ACCA, and AMCA, to name just a few, that support the industry and encourage high standards and achievement."
-- 198.203.175.175 17:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Are there more economic details of the HVAC industry? How many people are primarily employed in HVAC in the US? How many predominantly HVAC manufacturing and service employers are there? How many billions of dollars in products and services are sold per year? I think these figures, and links to major organizations, unions, and producers would add significantly to this article. 164.67.237.253 ( talk) 23:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
14:06, 22 April 2007 (UTC) I made some edits to the whole page to make each paragraph contain its own central idea or concept
(some paragraphs ran together) I also added some definitions, and several paragraphs
to entries to try to explain a few complex concepts a little more clearly and concisely. Johntindale
-- johntindale 15:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC) I added definitions to complete the following from the To-do list: There where several terms in the "Major Terms" section that where not defined in the HVAC article, and that I could not find an article for elsewhere.
List of terms:
I cannot create these articles because I do not what these terms mean.
Please either create articles for these terms, or define them within the HVAC article itself, and remove the links I created (instead of using links, just make the terms bold: once-through instead of once-through).
Is this just regional terminology for a fan coil unit, or is it a separate category of equipment? And if it's its own thing, how is it defined? This is (obviously) a question from someone not very familiar with the field. Great page, though. Very informative and not overly technical. This is why I love Wikipedia.
69.25.215.134
21:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
A fan powered box is simply a cabinet with a fan in it. Because there are so many applications in HVAC that use cabinet- mounted fans, sometimes generic terms are used to describe them all. johntindale ( talk) 14:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the heating section ends in an incomplete sentence. Please fix. -- Cromwellt| talk| contribs 22:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
This issue has apparently been resolved. johntindale ( talk) 14:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Partially true. It should read as "special chemicals called refrigerants." Freon is a company name. Freon makes / made CFC's, HCFC's, HFC's etc. Refrigerants are bought and sold as R-(number) not F-(number). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.47.38.3 ( talk) 20:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I can see how this is trying to explain that some people pronounce it "H-vac," but as an American speaker of English, I can't see "aitch" being pronounced as "H." The dipthong "ai" might occasionally be pronounced like that (like in "pain",) but at the start of a word I can't see it as anything other than a long "I" sound. I suspect other English-speaking countries would read that in different ways, too.
Wouldn't it work to just say that it's also pronounced "H-Vac"? Or use the phonetic alphabet. 192.174.37.50 ( talk) 23:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
As a confirmation (UK) I regularly hear the pronunciation heevac (he-vac?)presumably using the "e" from "heating"-- AndyCPrivate ( talk) 08:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
In the 2008 Nanotech/Cleantech forum sponsored by the California Institute of Nanotechnology and the Cleantech Institute, a new type of HVAC system was unveiled by Blue Earth Energy Systems using liquid nitrogen as a coolant and combining a traditional system with a Rankine cycle turbine. The resulting system reportedly uses only 13% as much energy as a conventional HVAC chiller.[1] |
This is nothing but advertising, and it certainly has nothing to do with the headline. And an internet search for "Blue Earth Energy Systems" turns up a webpage looking suspiciously like vaporware.-- Komodon ( talk) 05:24, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if this has already been discussed (the Talk archive is red-linked), but I'm sure I'm not the only editor who has noted that using an initialism for the name of the article runs contrary to naming guidelines. And more importantly, I doubt if one reader in a thousand has any clue what HVAC stands for. No matter how familiar it is to people in the field, I'm sure that it's utterly meaningless to everybody else. So I strongly urge changing the name to Heating, ventilating, and air conditioning. I'm also going to be taking Category:HVAC to CFD to get it expanded to Category:Heating, ventilating, and air conditioning. Cgingold ( talk) 14:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
From this edit it appears that we need a couple of examples to confirm that "HVAC" can also stand for "High Voltage Alternating Current", so: [1] and [2]. Looks like a WP:IDONTKNOWIT problem. -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 15:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
As you can see, There is an archive.
Talk:HVAC:Archive1 This archive contains everything prior to 2007. The talk page was getting a little difficult to navigate. Second, I created an introduction for Energy Efficiency, and sorted the following paragraph so that it flowed with the order of the main page.
johntindale (
talk)
14:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
It looks like it has been a while since anyone has addressed some of the issues and suggestions made in this talk section, so maybe we should clean it up a bit? I suggest creating a "talk archive" at the bottom of this page, and move some sections to it such as; questions and answers, completed to-do items, and other items that inhibit flow and are valid, but tend to clutter the page. I'll wait for suggestions, and begin moving some things gradually depending on input from other participants. -- johntindale ( talk) 22:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
How about simply archiving the stuff? Pzavon ( talk) 15:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
That's a good idea #REDIRECT
Talk:HVAC:Archive1
johntindale (
talk)
13:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
The link to
under "HVAC Formulas" in the "External links" section seems of questionable value to me.
The "Air Handling Unit Tonnage Output" section on that page is especially disappointing. The legend says TONNS = Dewpoint temperature in degrees F — not air-conditioning tons (12,000 btu/ton-hr). And the formula is for only sensible heat, not total (sensible + latent) heat.
The "Chiller Tonnage Output" section provides no units for "Energy output of the chiller".
The COP item in the "Chiller Coefficient of Performance" appears to be the result of copy-and-paste without adequate proofreading in that the legend says COP = Energy output of the chiller.
The signal-to-noise ratio on that page seems too low at this point to be the target of a link from an encyclopedia.
Is there a good reason to retain the link to http://www.computrols.com/formulas ? - Ac44ck ( talk) 20:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
I suggest simply merging this page with air conditioning. Air conditioning is already refers to dehumidifcation, heating and cooling of buildings. The term is thus very strange, unreferenced and no one will find this article when they search for it. -- KVDP ( talk) 11:51, 16 August 2009
heating, ventilation, and air conditioning needs to redirect to this article, because we are not all lazy about our commas. Likewise, Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning needs to redirect here. 98.67.160.118 ( talk) 13:57, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
The introduction to this article is long and hard to follow. At many resolutions even the top of the table of contents won't be visible when the page loads. Can we edit this down to a single introductory paragraph? Jminthorne ( talk) 01:49, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
The second paragraph is too detailed for introduction. The importance of HVAC should be detaily explained in the body rather than a summarised paragraph in introduction. Maviozan ( talk) 13:43, 4 May 2010
What do people think of splitting the "HVAC terms" section into a separate list article? It is unlikely it will ever be converted into prose, and in my opinion breaks up the article a lot in its current format. Of course any of the terms actually used in the article should be wikilinked so that will help the reader with unfamiliar words. Thoughts? Jminthorne ( talk) 02:10, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Hope I'm not being too verbose, but one more thought. Can we start an auto-archive on this talk page? I find it a little hard to navigate and I generally like having old topics moved out of sight. I'll start an archive bot in a few days unless there is an objection. Jminthorne ( talk) 02:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
In the spirit of johntindale's earlier efforts, I've added a to do template to the page. Jminthorne ( talk) 23:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
I removed the unreferenced tag since this article clearly has references. However, we also need more citations, so I added an article issues tag with some of the comments I've raised here. Jminthorne ( talk) 01:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I typed in Climate Control thinking about the global climate and wanting to know what scientists have figured out and what measures are being taken to develop human control of the Earth's climate and it redirected here. Is there an article that covers what I was looking for? If yes then there should be a disambiguation page. 68.84.184.56 ( talk) 00:33, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 22:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
HVAC → Heating, ventilation and air conditioning – Per WP:TITLEFORMAT. --Relisted. Red Slash 17:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Beagel ( talk) 17:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Do we need two articles - HVAC and Air conditioning? Biscuittin ( talk) 19:04, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
If a VAV is to produce 1135cfm. at a given room temperature
and is only producing 968cfm. at the same given room temperature as the above 1135cfm,
using a rule of thumb, approximate how may square feet are we not cooling within a this given space at the same given temperature — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.58.115.36 ( talk) 20:40, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
It should be spelled out in the main title, after which the abbreviation can be used. There is no need whatsoever for the Oxford comma, as no confusion could conceivably result. A merge is an excellent idea - currently it's all very bitty and unhelpful to the general reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.68.94.86 ( talk) 09:08, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Could someone discuss the term heat load (heating load). Jim Derby ( talk) 12:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Since this article is only listed as class C (but of medium to high importance), I did my best to turn the wall of text into (hopefully) clear sections and paragraphs. I removed only very little text, mostly I just re-ordered the existing paragraphs. Noggo ( talk) 20:58, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I went through the article again, but there's still lots to do. Since there is much overlapping/redundant information, I started to carefully take bits and pieces out and moved them to other articles, if they didn't already exist there. In general, a short explanation should remain here (to provide the whole picture), but not every last little detail needs to be explained in this article. IMHO, that's what the other articles (e.g. refrigeration cycle, heat pump, etc.) are for. The difficult thing of course is to know how much can be taken away safely. Noggo ( talk) 16:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
I have just released a new Template:HVAC, and added it to the bottom of the HVAC article. The template's purpose is to provide an overview of all Wikipedia articles related to the subject, and to allow quick navigation among them. Another purpose is to make it easier to see all the HVAC-related articles, so that they can be reorganized, coordinated, and improved. Please look at the template and (politely) let me know what you think, before I roll it out more generally to all the articles listed in it.
As you review the articles, you may notice that some of them partially overlap or appear to be redundant (for example, Forced-air gas and Heating system). Part of the purpose of this template is to reveal these overlaps (and also gaps in coverage). Do not remove apparently-redundant articles from this template. Instead, tag the articles themselves for merge or deletion, as appropriate. Only after the changes are complete should you remove the now-obsolete articles from the template.
This is only a first draft version of the template, so please feel free to add to the template any HVAC articles I somehow missed. The subcategories in the template are also a first try, and ideas for improvement are welcome.
Further discussion should be at Template talk:HVAC, so I will copy a version of this message over there. In the absence of a WP:WIKIPROJECT for HVAC, I suggest using that new Talk page as a place to discuss the overall cleanup efforts. Reify-tech ( talk) 21:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on HVAC. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The section "Geothermal heat pump" currently has a box "confusing or unclear" attached to it. However, in the article Geothermal heat pump#Differing terms and definitions the term is explained. Is the information there correct? If so, we could remove the box here. Noggo ( talk) 14:01, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Those opposing have provided strong, policy-based arguments against moving the page. Calidum ¤ 22:57, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
– Complete name, common and much easier tu understand than the abbreviation (jargon). Geny S. Soboes ( talk) 18:24, 18 September 2016 (UTC)