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"...South Slavic folk ballad" "...at the time was a part of the Province of Bosnia." Is it that hard to say Croatian?
Is there actually any good point, why we should consider this song to be "Croatian". It deals with a turkish-moslem family, it's earliest appearnes are "ijekawian", although Croats in that part speak exclusevly ikawian vernaculars. Finally, the tradition of epic songs and ballads is Serbian. There also epic songs by the Croats by they deal exclusevly with "Serbian metters", such as Marko Kraljevic, and are foung only in the parts of Balkans where Serbian immigration used to be very strong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luzzifer ( talk • contribs) 16:51, 11 December 2008
The ballad is generally held to have originated from prevalently Croat Imotska krajina.
That particular part of geography was Bosnia at the time, and all the way up to
[19th century.
So, if you are going to use geographical origins, it can only be "Bosnian ballad". "Bosnian ballad with oldest account of it written in Croatian dialect" - at best.
Hasanaginica is a part of Bosnian culture and cultural heritage. The language it's earliest record found today is in, is a bit irrelevant in that regard. It's oldest record could be written in Swahili - it is still Bosnian.
You know... kind of like Robin Hood being part of British culture, not French, despite the fact that his king at the time Richard the Lionheart, or Cœur de Lion ruled over great deal of today's France, or that he as a King of England is buried in Anjou, France.
Or that the earliest records of stories and ballads of Robin Hood are not written in today's English.
Now... being that we are having this talk in English... I would REALLY love to see what an Englishman or American or German would think of the differences between Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian versions of the song.
Is Hasanaginica even thought in Croatian schools today? I KNOW that it is thought in Bosnian schools.
That is Croatian as in "Republic of..." not "... people" or "... language". Same goes for Bosnia.
Oh... and "Osman" has an author. Folk songs don't.
Folk living there at the time were of various ethnicity but of Bosnian culture, under Ottoman rule.
Hasanaginica comes from possessive form of description of one's wife. In this case, the wife of Hasan-
[aga].
H was not added, as mentioned earlier, but "swallowed" in pronunciation (as in Hvala - fala, Historija - istorija, Hajvan - 'ajvan, Halva - 'alva, Himna - 'imna, Hajvar - ajvar, Hodža - 'odža etc.), and lost in translation to Italian and later to German by Werthes (1775) and Goethe (1778).
[Hasan] is a common Arabic name.
[Asan] is a city in South Korea. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
89.146.142.34 (
talk) 12:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Where to begin. First and foremost, it's absurd to ascribe modern notions of nationality and (standardized national language) to a 17th century poem. Even if the language and dialect of Hasanaginica now partially belong to what we can consider as the Croatian literary heritage, this is a gross simplification and hardly an exclusive claim. After all, language is a fluid thing, and the early modern Balkans were a rainbow of Slavic dialects that were only later sorted out into distinct standardized "national" varieties - a process that creates problems to this day. Equally important, ascribing Hasanaginica (exclusively) to the Croatian national language carries wider implications of culture and national heritage that the ballad simply doesn't fit into. Imotski was not a part of Croatia at this time, it was part of the Ottoman province of Bosnia, and it had been as such for well over a century. In fact, if you go even further, Imotski was a part of the medieval Bosnian state since the mid 14th century. So, whichever way you look at it, Imotski was part of the Bosnian territorial entity for several hundred years. In terms of geography then, the most accurate historical description for Hasanaginica would be Bosnian - fact. Furthermore, in everything from authorship (Muslims from what was then south-western Bosnia) to subject matter (the lives of Muslim land owners in south-western Bosnia) to primary audience (Bosnia's Muslim community, in which it was disseminated years before anyone in Catholic Croatia knew about it), Hasanaginica is a blatantly Muslim poem (and yet, hilariously, this article doesn't even mention it). Any unbiased onlooker is left with a very obvious conclusion: the most historically accurate way to describe Hasanaginica would be, first and foremost, as a Bosnian Muslim folk ballad. Certainly, it'd be fair to mention that, since the 18/19th century, Hasanaginica is considered a part of the Croatian literary heritage for reasons of linguistics and contemporary geography (of course, it's also considered a part of the Bosnian literary heritage). But to simply denote it as "Croatian" without any mention of what's been listed above? That's just pure, nationalist bias. Live Forever ( talk) 18:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
“ | Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. | ” |
— Voltaire |
What is this ? Is there a one sane person and any Bosniak here to say something on this travesty ?! No matter who, what or how is writing, as an attempt to improve such articles, negation of whole nation and its identity is obvious. Is there anything that belong to Bosniaks or they simpli don't exsist, as that is exactly basis for all deprivation of any rights to heritage, culture, language, identity in general. Just because bloodletting regimes, especially of prewar ( World War II) and later of communist Yugoslavia, systematically deprived Bosniaks of civil and every other rights, some think that they can still behave and operate in line with nationalistic blueprints from Zagreb and Belgrade ! "Malo sutra", ("not a hope in hell"; "until hell freezes over") as often is said, and easily understood all over the Balkan, they will have to stop at some point, with continuous plundering and looting of Bosnia and Bosniak heritage and culture as accustom through out of 19th and 20th century. The days of the uskoks and hayducks is long gone, unfortunately only in sense of real highway robberies, while taking other peoples collective values, their cultural heritage is still present. It is quite common among mainstream Serbian and Croatian historian, historiographers, and intellectuals in many other fields too, as well as in popular science and culture, a comprehensive and persistent plagiarism, usurpation, presumptuous, of everything worth and even remotely possible to absorb as their. Of course Bosniaks are just Crotas deluded into Islam, so there is no need to say that Bosniaks are actually Muslim Croats. What that mean for Bosniak culture, language and heritage in general and homeland, well, make your own conclusion.
Its same or even worst story all over again at the Serbian side, just instead Croats and Croatian, all Bosniaks are Muslim Serbs and everything their worth enough is Serbian.
Identical is behaviour of wikipedians, especially at Serbian and Croatian Wikipedia (sr. and hr.), but English Wikipedia (en.) also fail to retain objectivity and accuracy in case of Balkan and Bosnia and Herzegovina in particular.-- 77.78.196.241 ( talk) 17:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Why have I did this, from this version:
" It is considered a part of the Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian literary heritage. "
To this version:
It is considered a part of the Croatian literary heritage.
Colleague Ivan Štambuk nicely explained that here
[1]
"Dear Serbo-Croatian comrades,... you...having been indoctrinated by books written by ex-professors of "Serbo-Croatian languages" who graduated "Yugoslavistics", which for pure political reasons pushed the notion of "Serbo-Croatian dialects" as an alleged "genetic node" in the South Slavic branch. This notion of abundantly exploited for misappropriation of Croat-only cultural heritage, of which there are plenty of remnants in modern Serbian books (...bugaršćice by Molise Croats and medieval Čakavian writers like Hektorović as a part of "Serbian epic poetry"...)...".
Kubura (
talk) 02:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Was it Asanaginica or Hasanaginica in original script? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.239.19.94 ( talk) 18:24, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
The publisher, Fortis, clarly wrote: Morlach Ballad. Also, read the picture of the ballad and the Italian words: De Morlacchi
The nationalism of some readers made "Morlach" to be "Slave" simply changing the text...
Today, we already know that the cultural heritage of national, ethnic and religious minorities (the case of Morlachs) as well as stateless communities in the 20 th century in Europe was doomed in many countries to assimilation, persecution and even oblivion.
Such minorities are often faced with the situation in which their heritage is rapidly vanishing, which is caused by underfunding and a lack of general care. The heritage of minorities, including the one of the Vlachs,is not infrequently passed over in silence in official national discourse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.148.114 ( talk) 15:23, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
In Croatia today, "Vlachs" or "Morlachs" is a recognized national minority (along with 22 other ethnic groups), with 29 individuals declared as Vlachs in the 2011 Croatian census, making them the smallest recognized minority in Croatia. Other Eastern Romance-speaking ethnic groups, that were also traditionally referred to as Vlachs in Croatia, now identify by their respective ethnic names – namely Romanians, Aromanians and Istro-Romanians (which are native to modern Croatia's Istria County).
Riadder (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added 09:13, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
The below details are about Fortis and about the people named Morlachs who were singing poems like Hasanaginica. The data contain references. Please do not erase references ! This is a warning (3RR)!
Alberto Fortis's account of the Morlachs, translated into French, English and German brought the Morlachs to the attention of Europe.(Larry Wolff, Rise and fall of Morlachismo. In: Norman M. Naimark, Holly Case, Stanford University Press, Yugoslavia and Its Historians: Understanding the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, ISBN-13: 978-0804745949 p.41) Fortis believed that the Morlachs preserved their old customs and clothes. Their ethnographic traits were traditional clothings, use of the gusle musical instrument accompanied with epic singing. Morlachs were living in in the same areas where lived the Krajina Serbs, who were expelled from Croatia in 1995.
Fortis also found that they did not necessarly call themselves Morlachs but rather Vlachs.(Larry Wolff, Rise and fall of Morlachismo. In: Norman M. Naimark, Holly Case, Stanford University Press, Yugoslavia and Its Historians: Understanding the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, ISBN-13: 978-0804745949 p.390) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riadder ( talk • contribs) 10:13, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
From Fortis's travelogue it is not easy to understand who the Morlacchi are, although he does devote the beginning of this chapter to their origins and to the etymology of the term "Morlacchi." Fortis states that the Morlacchi inhabit "the pleasant valleys of Kotar, along the rivers Kerka, Cettina, Narenta, and the mountains of inland Dalmatia," (Fortis 1778: 45) which indicates that they are the population of the hinterland Dalmatia. However, in the footnote that refers to this sentence, he states: "The country inhabited by Morlacchi is of much greater extant, not only towards Greece, but towards Germany and Hungary; but I confine my account to the small part of it which I saw."29 (ibid.) From this statement we could assume that he applies the term Morlacchi to all Slavs, for he writes in the continuation of that sentence that the Morlacchi came to that area together with other nations "resembling them so much in customs and language, that they may be taken for one people, dispersed in the vast tracts from the coasts of our sea to the Frozen Ocean."30 Still, despite the fact that Fortis mentions that due to similarities all Slavs could be viewed as one nation, throughout the travelogue he keeps emphasizing the difference between the Morlacchi and coastal Dalmatians, who are not only both Slavs, but also live just a few dozens kilometres away from each other. [2]
Staszek Lem ( talk) 20:12, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
Riadder ( talk) 13:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
REFERENCES about Vlach/Morlach autorship:
1. 2006, Julije Bajamonti, Il Morlacchismo d’Omero, Itinerari adriatici. Dai portolani ai reportages, Trieste, 13-14 June 2006, p.3
2. 2016. Balazs Trencsenyi et all. A history of Medern Political Thought in East Central Europe. Publisher: Oxford Scholarship Online, Vol.I, p.109, ISBN-13: 9780198737148
2. 2006, IVAN LOVRIĆ, THE CUSTOMS OF THE MORLACHS ( I Costumi dei Morlacchi) In: Discourses of Collective identity in Central and Southeast Europe p.60, CEU Press,Budapest, , p.60 Riadder ( talk) 14:10, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Please read Ivan Lovric, a Croatian who clearly wrote about (p.60) the Morlachs. If you deny Lovric, Bajamonti and Trencsenyi we need to erase (according to your opinions) all data about Lovric and other scholars inserted in this article and other articles. But Fortis and Lovric were contemporary with Morlachs and their works are considered Primary sources. Read the definition of primary sources! Riadder ( talk) 06:23, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
MORLACHS are Vlachs and not Slavic People. Read references first Morlachs were speaking Serbian after Slavicization. Vlachs were converted to Islam în Bosnia and partially în Dalmatia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.122.248.160 ( talk) 04:24, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Fortis wrote about a Morlach Ballad of the Slavicized and Islamized Vlachs ( Morlachs) who were living a province of Otoman Empire. Giovani Lovrich wrote about maternal language of Morlachs, which is similar to the language of the Wallachians. It is obvious that many nationalists try to say that Hasanaginica is made by Croats. But Croats were not Islamized and never wrote a ballad about Hasan family. The phenomenon of falsifying the heritage of an ethnic group of population and the appropriation of others heritage is called Cultural Apropriation. It is a scientific term and not an accusation. It is free to use the ballad but is incorrect to say that was not created by Morlachs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.158.57 ( talk • contribs)
Too many ultranationalists try to hijack the folklore of Musulman Morlachs of Bosnia. The last census shows there are around 20 Croatian citizens declared Vlach or Morlach. Is the Croatian folklore so poor that needs to hijack? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.112.49.11 ( talk) 08:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hasanaginica article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"...South Slavic folk ballad" "...at the time was a part of the Province of Bosnia." Is it that hard to say Croatian?
Is there actually any good point, why we should consider this song to be "Croatian". It deals with a turkish-moslem family, it's earliest appearnes are "ijekawian", although Croats in that part speak exclusevly ikawian vernaculars. Finally, the tradition of epic songs and ballads is Serbian. There also epic songs by the Croats by they deal exclusevly with "Serbian metters", such as Marko Kraljevic, and are foung only in the parts of Balkans where Serbian immigration used to be very strong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luzzifer ( talk • contribs) 16:51, 11 December 2008
The ballad is generally held to have originated from prevalently Croat Imotska krajina.
That particular part of geography was Bosnia at the time, and all the way up to
[19th century.
So, if you are going to use geographical origins, it can only be "Bosnian ballad". "Bosnian ballad with oldest account of it written in Croatian dialect" - at best.
Hasanaginica is a part of Bosnian culture and cultural heritage. The language it's earliest record found today is in, is a bit irrelevant in that regard. It's oldest record could be written in Swahili - it is still Bosnian.
You know... kind of like Robin Hood being part of British culture, not French, despite the fact that his king at the time Richard the Lionheart, or Cœur de Lion ruled over great deal of today's France, or that he as a King of England is buried in Anjou, France.
Or that the earliest records of stories and ballads of Robin Hood are not written in today's English.
Now... being that we are having this talk in English... I would REALLY love to see what an Englishman or American or German would think of the differences between Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian versions of the song.
Is Hasanaginica even thought in Croatian schools today? I KNOW that it is thought in Bosnian schools.
That is Croatian as in "Republic of..." not "... people" or "... language". Same goes for Bosnia.
Oh... and "Osman" has an author. Folk songs don't.
Folk living there at the time were of various ethnicity but of Bosnian culture, under Ottoman rule.
Hasanaginica comes from possessive form of description of one's wife. In this case, the wife of Hasan-
[aga].
H was not added, as mentioned earlier, but "swallowed" in pronunciation (as in Hvala - fala, Historija - istorija, Hajvan - 'ajvan, Halva - 'alva, Himna - 'imna, Hajvar - ajvar, Hodža - 'odža etc.), and lost in translation to Italian and later to German by Werthes (1775) and Goethe (1778).
[Hasan] is a common Arabic name.
[Asan] is a city in South Korea. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
89.146.142.34 (
talk) 12:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Where to begin. First and foremost, it's absurd to ascribe modern notions of nationality and (standardized national language) to a 17th century poem. Even if the language and dialect of Hasanaginica now partially belong to what we can consider as the Croatian literary heritage, this is a gross simplification and hardly an exclusive claim. After all, language is a fluid thing, and the early modern Balkans were a rainbow of Slavic dialects that were only later sorted out into distinct standardized "national" varieties - a process that creates problems to this day. Equally important, ascribing Hasanaginica (exclusively) to the Croatian national language carries wider implications of culture and national heritage that the ballad simply doesn't fit into. Imotski was not a part of Croatia at this time, it was part of the Ottoman province of Bosnia, and it had been as such for well over a century. In fact, if you go even further, Imotski was a part of the medieval Bosnian state since the mid 14th century. So, whichever way you look at it, Imotski was part of the Bosnian territorial entity for several hundred years. In terms of geography then, the most accurate historical description for Hasanaginica would be Bosnian - fact. Furthermore, in everything from authorship (Muslims from what was then south-western Bosnia) to subject matter (the lives of Muslim land owners in south-western Bosnia) to primary audience (Bosnia's Muslim community, in which it was disseminated years before anyone in Catholic Croatia knew about it), Hasanaginica is a blatantly Muslim poem (and yet, hilariously, this article doesn't even mention it). Any unbiased onlooker is left with a very obvious conclusion: the most historically accurate way to describe Hasanaginica would be, first and foremost, as a Bosnian Muslim folk ballad. Certainly, it'd be fair to mention that, since the 18/19th century, Hasanaginica is considered a part of the Croatian literary heritage for reasons of linguistics and contemporary geography (of course, it's also considered a part of the Bosnian literary heritage). But to simply denote it as "Croatian" without any mention of what's been listed above? That's just pure, nationalist bias. Live Forever ( talk) 18:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
“ | Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. | ” |
— Voltaire |
What is this ? Is there a one sane person and any Bosniak here to say something on this travesty ?! No matter who, what or how is writing, as an attempt to improve such articles, negation of whole nation and its identity is obvious. Is there anything that belong to Bosniaks or they simpli don't exsist, as that is exactly basis for all deprivation of any rights to heritage, culture, language, identity in general. Just because bloodletting regimes, especially of prewar ( World War II) and later of communist Yugoslavia, systematically deprived Bosniaks of civil and every other rights, some think that they can still behave and operate in line with nationalistic blueprints from Zagreb and Belgrade ! "Malo sutra", ("not a hope in hell"; "until hell freezes over") as often is said, and easily understood all over the Balkan, they will have to stop at some point, with continuous plundering and looting of Bosnia and Bosniak heritage and culture as accustom through out of 19th and 20th century. The days of the uskoks and hayducks is long gone, unfortunately only in sense of real highway robberies, while taking other peoples collective values, their cultural heritage is still present. It is quite common among mainstream Serbian and Croatian historian, historiographers, and intellectuals in many other fields too, as well as in popular science and culture, a comprehensive and persistent plagiarism, usurpation, presumptuous, of everything worth and even remotely possible to absorb as their. Of course Bosniaks are just Crotas deluded into Islam, so there is no need to say that Bosniaks are actually Muslim Croats. What that mean for Bosniak culture, language and heritage in general and homeland, well, make your own conclusion.
Its same or even worst story all over again at the Serbian side, just instead Croats and Croatian, all Bosniaks are Muslim Serbs and everything their worth enough is Serbian.
Identical is behaviour of wikipedians, especially at Serbian and Croatian Wikipedia (sr. and hr.), but English Wikipedia (en.) also fail to retain objectivity and accuracy in case of Balkan and Bosnia and Herzegovina in particular.-- 77.78.196.241 ( talk) 17:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Why have I did this, from this version:
" It is considered a part of the Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian literary heritage. "
To this version:
It is considered a part of the Croatian literary heritage.
Colleague Ivan Štambuk nicely explained that here
[1]
"Dear Serbo-Croatian comrades,... you...having been indoctrinated by books written by ex-professors of "Serbo-Croatian languages" who graduated "Yugoslavistics", which for pure political reasons pushed the notion of "Serbo-Croatian dialects" as an alleged "genetic node" in the South Slavic branch. This notion of abundantly exploited for misappropriation of Croat-only cultural heritage, of which there are plenty of remnants in modern Serbian books (...bugaršćice by Molise Croats and medieval Čakavian writers like Hektorović as a part of "Serbian epic poetry"...)...".
Kubura (
talk) 02:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Was it Asanaginica or Hasanaginica in original script? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.239.19.94 ( talk) 18:24, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
The publisher, Fortis, clarly wrote: Morlach Ballad. Also, read the picture of the ballad and the Italian words: De Morlacchi
The nationalism of some readers made "Morlach" to be "Slave" simply changing the text...
Today, we already know that the cultural heritage of national, ethnic and religious minorities (the case of Morlachs) as well as stateless communities in the 20 th century in Europe was doomed in many countries to assimilation, persecution and even oblivion.
Such minorities are often faced with the situation in which their heritage is rapidly vanishing, which is caused by underfunding and a lack of general care. The heritage of minorities, including the one of the Vlachs,is not infrequently passed over in silence in official national discourse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.148.114 ( talk) 15:23, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
In Croatia today, "Vlachs" or "Morlachs" is a recognized national minority (along with 22 other ethnic groups), with 29 individuals declared as Vlachs in the 2011 Croatian census, making them the smallest recognized minority in Croatia. Other Eastern Romance-speaking ethnic groups, that were also traditionally referred to as Vlachs in Croatia, now identify by their respective ethnic names – namely Romanians, Aromanians and Istro-Romanians (which are native to modern Croatia's Istria County).
Riadder (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added 09:13, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
The below details are about Fortis and about the people named Morlachs who were singing poems like Hasanaginica. The data contain references. Please do not erase references ! This is a warning (3RR)!
Alberto Fortis's account of the Morlachs, translated into French, English and German brought the Morlachs to the attention of Europe.(Larry Wolff, Rise and fall of Morlachismo. In: Norman M. Naimark, Holly Case, Stanford University Press, Yugoslavia and Its Historians: Understanding the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, ISBN-13: 978-0804745949 p.41) Fortis believed that the Morlachs preserved their old customs and clothes. Their ethnographic traits were traditional clothings, use of the gusle musical instrument accompanied with epic singing. Morlachs were living in in the same areas where lived the Krajina Serbs, who were expelled from Croatia in 1995.
Fortis also found that they did not necessarly call themselves Morlachs but rather Vlachs.(Larry Wolff, Rise and fall of Morlachismo. In: Norman M. Naimark, Holly Case, Stanford University Press, Yugoslavia and Its Historians: Understanding the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, ISBN-13: 978-0804745949 p.390) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riadder ( talk • contribs) 10:13, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
From Fortis's travelogue it is not easy to understand who the Morlacchi are, although he does devote the beginning of this chapter to their origins and to the etymology of the term "Morlacchi." Fortis states that the Morlacchi inhabit "the pleasant valleys of Kotar, along the rivers Kerka, Cettina, Narenta, and the mountains of inland Dalmatia," (Fortis 1778: 45) which indicates that they are the population of the hinterland Dalmatia. However, in the footnote that refers to this sentence, he states: "The country inhabited by Morlacchi is of much greater extant, not only towards Greece, but towards Germany and Hungary; but I confine my account to the small part of it which I saw."29 (ibid.) From this statement we could assume that he applies the term Morlacchi to all Slavs, for he writes in the continuation of that sentence that the Morlacchi came to that area together with other nations "resembling them so much in customs and language, that they may be taken for one people, dispersed in the vast tracts from the coasts of our sea to the Frozen Ocean."30 Still, despite the fact that Fortis mentions that due to similarities all Slavs could be viewed as one nation, throughout the travelogue he keeps emphasizing the difference between the Morlacchi and coastal Dalmatians, who are not only both Slavs, but also live just a few dozens kilometres away from each other. [2]
Staszek Lem ( talk) 20:12, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
Riadder ( talk) 13:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
REFERENCES about Vlach/Morlach autorship:
1. 2006, Julije Bajamonti, Il Morlacchismo d’Omero, Itinerari adriatici. Dai portolani ai reportages, Trieste, 13-14 June 2006, p.3
2. 2016. Balazs Trencsenyi et all. A history of Medern Political Thought in East Central Europe. Publisher: Oxford Scholarship Online, Vol.I, p.109, ISBN-13: 9780198737148
2. 2006, IVAN LOVRIĆ, THE CUSTOMS OF THE MORLACHS ( I Costumi dei Morlacchi) In: Discourses of Collective identity in Central and Southeast Europe p.60, CEU Press,Budapest, , p.60 Riadder ( talk) 14:10, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Please read Ivan Lovric, a Croatian who clearly wrote about (p.60) the Morlachs. If you deny Lovric, Bajamonti and Trencsenyi we need to erase (according to your opinions) all data about Lovric and other scholars inserted in this article and other articles. But Fortis and Lovric were contemporary with Morlachs and their works are considered Primary sources. Read the definition of primary sources! Riadder ( talk) 06:23, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
MORLACHS are Vlachs and not Slavic People. Read references first Morlachs were speaking Serbian after Slavicization. Vlachs were converted to Islam în Bosnia and partially în Dalmatia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.122.248.160 ( talk) 04:24, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Fortis wrote about a Morlach Ballad of the Slavicized and Islamized Vlachs ( Morlachs) who were living a province of Otoman Empire. Giovani Lovrich wrote about maternal language of Morlachs, which is similar to the language of the Wallachians. It is obvious that many nationalists try to say that Hasanaginica is made by Croats. But Croats were not Islamized and never wrote a ballad about Hasan family. The phenomenon of falsifying the heritage of an ethnic group of population and the appropriation of others heritage is called Cultural Apropriation. It is a scientific term and not an accusation. It is free to use the ballad but is incorrect to say that was not created by Morlachs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.158.57 ( talk • contribs)
Too many ultranationalists try to hijack the folklore of Musulman Morlachs of Bosnia. The last census shows there are around 20 Croatian citizens declared Vlach or Morlach. Is the Croatian folklore so poor that needs to hijack? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.112.49.11 ( talk) 08:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)