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While Wiki-surfing I noticed that this article claimed ouright that al-Hasan al-Basri was a Sufi. This is very inappropriate, as it is strongly disputed and highly dubious. An encyclopedic article should just provide the information and all differing opinions, not take sides. We must make sure to uphold the official Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy at all times. MezzoMezzo 02:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, needs to be balanced. Thats not balanced. Taymiyyah is not the one and only Scholar, like claimed by "Salafis". Other Opinions should be recognized. Source is there
" Ibn Taymiyya in his essay "Sufis and Fakeers" (Majmu` al-Fatawa 11:5-7 epistle entitled al-Sufiyya wa al-Fuqara') purported to correct and reform what he perceived as wrongful Sufi practices and went so far as to claim that the Companions and Successors were never so affected as the Sufis of his time claimed to be. The evidence shows otherwise:
- Al-Hasan al-Basri and Hisham ibn al-Hasan narrated that `Umar sometimes lost consciousness after reciting a verse from the Qur'an, whereupon he would be taken ill and visited for days. Narrated by Ibn Abi Shayba in his Musannaf (13:269); Abu Nu`aym, Hilyat al-Awliya' ("Adornment of the Saints" 1:88 #133); Ibn al-Jawzi, Manaqib `Umar ("Immense Merits of `Umar" p.168); Ibn Qudama, al-Riqqa waal-Buka' ("Softness of Heart and Weeping" p.166); al-Dhahabi in the Siyar, etc." http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=791&CATE=3 ~~BM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.117.3.228 ( talk) 19:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
He wasn't "just a Sufi", he was the founder of the Basran school of Sufism. Read the evidence from Cambridge University Press. The only people who reject this are the followers of the Wahhabi religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.49.37.183 ( talk) 15:50, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
I think it is relevant to include some discussion of al-Hasan al-Basri's apparent sympathies with the Qadariyya, as suggested by his famous Risala. The article states that al-Basri was a supporter of "orthodoxy", but this seems anachronistic, given that Sunni "orthodoxy" did not really crystallise until at least a century after his death. Equally, to debate about whether al-Basri was a 'Sufi' seems to me to be introducing later concepts into the discussion. Let's not pretend that Sunni "orthodoxy" has always existed from the beginning of Islam: it was produced over the course of two centuries, and al-Basri undoubtedly lived in the crucible of Islam. 131.111.220.6 ( talk) 17:11, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Could someone explain to this forum why it is "incorrect" to declare Hasan a believer in human free-will and an opponent to predestination? It's not just Mourad saying this; it's also the Encyclopaedia of Islam (2nd Ed) and pretty much the whole of secular scholarship on his life which agree on it. Muslims too: his student Qatada and his student Sa'id Ibn Abi Aruba were also on board with his beliefs here. I'll remove the term "Qadarite", as I concede it's a loaded one. But if you're going to dispute his beliefs then you'd best defend your disputations.-- Zimriel ( talk) 00:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC) The information about Hazrat Hassan Basri parentage and heirs needs more research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.204.137.24 ( talk) 12:39, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
I smell socks. Check out the revisions 1 AM, 2 June and 31 December 2009. Someone doesn't like that Hasan had an anti-predestinarian reputation. -- Zimriel ( talk) 06:17, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I have put in a proposal for a new WikiProject at Wikipedia: WikiProject Council - WikiProject Mysticism. I wonder whether any readers of this article would be interested in joining? Vorbee ( talk) 08:23, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
While Wiki-surfing I noticed that this article claimed ouright that al-Hasan al-Basri was a Sufi. This is very inappropriate, as it is strongly disputed and highly dubious. An encyclopedic article should just provide the information and all differing opinions, not take sides. We must make sure to uphold the official Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy at all times. MezzoMezzo 02:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, needs to be balanced. Thats not balanced. Taymiyyah is not the one and only Scholar, like claimed by "Salafis". Other Opinions should be recognized. Source is there
" Ibn Taymiyya in his essay "Sufis and Fakeers" (Majmu` al-Fatawa 11:5-7 epistle entitled al-Sufiyya wa al-Fuqara') purported to correct and reform what he perceived as wrongful Sufi practices and went so far as to claim that the Companions and Successors were never so affected as the Sufis of his time claimed to be. The evidence shows otherwise:
- Al-Hasan al-Basri and Hisham ibn al-Hasan narrated that `Umar sometimes lost consciousness after reciting a verse from the Qur'an, whereupon he would be taken ill and visited for days. Narrated by Ibn Abi Shayba in his Musannaf (13:269); Abu Nu`aym, Hilyat al-Awliya' ("Adornment of the Saints" 1:88 #133); Ibn al-Jawzi, Manaqib `Umar ("Immense Merits of `Umar" p.168); Ibn Qudama, al-Riqqa waal-Buka' ("Softness of Heart and Weeping" p.166); al-Dhahabi in the Siyar, etc." http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=791&CATE=3 ~~BM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.117.3.228 ( talk) 19:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
He wasn't "just a Sufi", he was the founder of the Basran school of Sufism. Read the evidence from Cambridge University Press. The only people who reject this are the followers of the Wahhabi religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.49.37.183 ( talk) 15:50, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
I think it is relevant to include some discussion of al-Hasan al-Basri's apparent sympathies with the Qadariyya, as suggested by his famous Risala. The article states that al-Basri was a supporter of "orthodoxy", but this seems anachronistic, given that Sunni "orthodoxy" did not really crystallise until at least a century after his death. Equally, to debate about whether al-Basri was a 'Sufi' seems to me to be introducing later concepts into the discussion. Let's not pretend that Sunni "orthodoxy" has always existed from the beginning of Islam: it was produced over the course of two centuries, and al-Basri undoubtedly lived in the crucible of Islam. 131.111.220.6 ( talk) 17:11, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Could someone explain to this forum why it is "incorrect" to declare Hasan a believer in human free-will and an opponent to predestination? It's not just Mourad saying this; it's also the Encyclopaedia of Islam (2nd Ed) and pretty much the whole of secular scholarship on his life which agree on it. Muslims too: his student Qatada and his student Sa'id Ibn Abi Aruba were also on board with his beliefs here. I'll remove the term "Qadarite", as I concede it's a loaded one. But if you're going to dispute his beliefs then you'd best defend your disputations.-- Zimriel ( talk) 00:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC) The information about Hazrat Hassan Basri parentage and heirs needs more research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.204.137.24 ( talk) 12:39, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
I smell socks. Check out the revisions 1 AM, 2 June and 31 December 2009. Someone doesn't like that Hasan had an anti-predestinarian reputation. -- Zimriel ( talk) 06:17, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I have put in a proposal for a new WikiProject at Wikipedia: WikiProject Council - WikiProject Mysticism. I wonder whether any readers of this article would be interested in joining? Vorbee ( talk) 08:23, 13 June 2020 (UTC)