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Interesting. Nothing about his involvement in Operation Atlas in which he and other Nazi operatives were parachuted on the night of November 2nd 1944 near Jericho with the intention of poisoning the drinking waters of Tel-Aviv. The British army caught his associates, but he managed to escape. Avihu 20:45, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
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(I apologize because it is a basic comment:) The summary page of the National Archives are not wp:rs. We don't know who made this summary. Only the contents are wp:rs and anyway they are primary sources and must be handled with care.
So, I will remove this : "The mission was intended to supply local Palestinian Arab resistance groups with resources and arms, and to direct sabotage activity primarily at Jewish (rather than British) targets."
Given "Jewish (rather than British" is just an usual pov-pushing.
Pluto2012 ( talk) 10:33, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
Ykantor wrote in an edit summary: "While I don't believe the poison story, it should not be deleted until the MI5 "poison" file content is known". First, Ykantor needs to read WP:ONUS; actually we have to keep dubious things out until they are verifiable, not the other way around. Second, the British files on the mission are known. I would dearly like to read them all myself, but meanwhile Mallman's book "Nazi Palestine" cites them directly (giving the archival identifier) without mentioning poison, and Schwanitz also refers to them (though without an archive reference) and states that the poison story is not supported there. Zero talk 08:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm taking a min-break from my WIkibreak (due to software-development obligations) to order the KV 2/400-402 documents from the British National Archives. We'll have to find a way to share them. Does anyone know if we can legitimately submit the (legally purchased) official copy into Wikmedia (which would be the best way for all of us to view them). I've tried to get these docs from Stanford (including the Hoover Institution) and UCLA Library systems, and neither could find interlibrary loans or other methods for examining the source material. I've also had a hard time finding secondary sources that have deals with these archived materials. Does anyone have citation to peer-review articles? There are plenty of news reports from the time (see the Operation ATLAS article 'external links'), so there's probably subsequently been a peer-review journal article by academic historian. Any suggestions? Ronreisman ( talk) 01:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
2019 and the Poison Hoax is still in Wikipedia, Shalom to all u liars and helpers of liars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.237.50.132 ( talk) 00:28, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
A blog cannot be considered as a reliable source. Even less when it is named Haskalah. Pluto2012 ( talk) 04:12, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
The old version of the lead only mentioned his role in the 1947-1948 Palestine Civil War. However, most of the text in the article is about other periods of his life, with his role in the 1947-1948 being only 1 out of 4 sections. I've added a brief summary in the lead to correct this. OtterAM ( talk) 23:44, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the lead only mention Hasan Salama's role in the Holy War Army or should it also mention his service with Nazi Germany and his death at the hands of the IDF? Here are two competing versions [1] and [2]. OtterAM ( talk) 00:11, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
List of references for HS and the Nazi Army |
|
References
Whatever else can be said about "independent scholar" Thomas G. Mitchell's book cited here, it isn't reliable for this. Everything in there comes openly from the book of Bar-Zohar and Haber, which is responsible for the bullshit story about poisoning the Tel-Aviv water supply. The debunking of that story can be found at Operation Atlas (Mandatory Palestine). Meanwhile, stuff cited to Mitchell is out until it is better cited. Zero talk 12:43, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
This is a continuation of the discussion above, and it can stand as a salutary lesson on treatment of dubious sources. The general rule of operating is: If there is a smell of rat, probably there is a rat around.
Davar of Feb 11, 1948 published a short report of which the following is a loose translation of the main part. Since I am a complete novice at Hebrew, even with Google's help, there can be mistakes. Please report them and they can be corrected.
Now I managed to obtain the source story in Le Monde of Jan 22 or 23, 1948. The start of it can be seen here, but I paid 2 euros for the full text. The relevant paragraph, which is the only place where "Salameh" or "Rommel" are mentioned, is this:
I'm not great at French either, so the following translation can also be corrected:
From this we can see: (1) The primary source is not Le Monde but the Hagana, but Davar hid this key fact from its readers. (2) The personal name "Hasan" does not appear in Le Monde; it is Davar who decided that "Hadj Salameh" is the same person as Hasan Salameh. (3) Le Monde describes him as a German named Kortel who was operating near Jerusalem under the name of Salameh, but nobody has ever seriously alleged that Salameh was not an Arab. Hasan Salameh was well known in Palestine since the 1930s, so it is entirely impossible that Davar didn't know he was an Arab. (4) Davar bolstered the false identification by placing Salameh at Jaffa, despite Le Monde placing him at Jerusalem. (5) The last part of Davar's story (if I translated it properly) didn't appear in Le Monde at all.
At the moment I can't find another mention of Major Kortel or Haj Salameh in the 1948 context; please let us know if you can. In summary, this was a dubious story in Le Monde reported in highly distorted form by Davar. Personally I believe the evidence is for deliberate deception on Davar's part. But we didn't need this investigation to know that the Davar story was unreliable for Wikipedia usage. It was, in fact, bloody obvious from the beginning. Zero talk 09:20, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't know if this is true or not but that's not wp:rs
Pluto2012 ( talk) 22:15, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
References
This is a long standing content, Please obtain consensus for removal. Infinity Knight ( talk) 21:02, 10 July 2017 (UTC)While in Damascus Sheikh Hassan Salameh indirectly approached the British Consul there with a view to obtaining employment with the Palestine Government for the purpose of rounding up his past comrades. His services were declined.
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I'm sorting Middle Eastern collaborators with Nazi Germany by their ethnicity, that's more accurate, so I want to replace this: Arab collaborators with Nazi Germany RedEye98 ( talk) 16:25, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
There seems to be an error in the article.
The article reads: “parachuted from a German Heinkel HeS 3 into mandatory Palestine”... However, the Heinkel HeS3 was a JET ENGINE, not an AIRPLANE.
I was of the assumptions that jet engines are usually attached to wings and form part of a plane. Not that they can fly independently, however I’m not an expert on the topic. 192.38.137.248 ( talk) 23:08, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
I've uploaded this photo of the 1945 Mandate of Palestine reward poster (pfft, barely offered any reward) which seems relevant - would appreciate if someone can add it to the article which is still seemingly edit-protected (time to remove?) Mostcommonphraseongoogle ( talk) 21:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
"comprades" does not seem to be an English word. Maybe either "comrades" or "compadres" are meant? As the article is edit-protected, I would appreciate this simple fix. Terber ( talk) 09:26, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Actually, I wonder if we shouldn't remove that whole sentence? It relies on primary sources, + a blog from the Israel State Archives (ISA), by a certain "Shlomo". That isn't really brilliant, Huldra ( talk) 21:39, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
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Hasan Salama article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
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Interesting. Nothing about his involvement in Operation Atlas in which he and other Nazi operatives were parachuted on the night of November 2nd 1944 near Jericho with the intention of poisoning the drinking waters of Tel-Aviv. The British army caught his associates, but he managed to escape. Avihu 20:45, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article, File:Hassansalameh.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files missing permission as of 31 December 2011
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 01:41, 31 December 2011 (UTC) |
(I apologize because it is a basic comment:) The summary page of the National Archives are not wp:rs. We don't know who made this summary. Only the contents are wp:rs and anyway they are primary sources and must be handled with care.
So, I will remove this : "The mission was intended to supply local Palestinian Arab resistance groups with resources and arms, and to direct sabotage activity primarily at Jewish (rather than British) targets."
Given "Jewish (rather than British" is just an usual pov-pushing.
Pluto2012 ( talk) 10:33, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
Ykantor wrote in an edit summary: "While I don't believe the poison story, it should not be deleted until the MI5 "poison" file content is known". First, Ykantor needs to read WP:ONUS; actually we have to keep dubious things out until they are verifiable, not the other way around. Second, the British files on the mission are known. I would dearly like to read them all myself, but meanwhile Mallman's book "Nazi Palestine" cites them directly (giving the archival identifier) without mentioning poison, and Schwanitz also refers to them (though without an archive reference) and states that the poison story is not supported there. Zero talk 08:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm taking a min-break from my WIkibreak (due to software-development obligations) to order the KV 2/400-402 documents from the British National Archives. We'll have to find a way to share them. Does anyone know if we can legitimately submit the (legally purchased) official copy into Wikmedia (which would be the best way for all of us to view them). I've tried to get these docs from Stanford (including the Hoover Institution) and UCLA Library systems, and neither could find interlibrary loans or other methods for examining the source material. I've also had a hard time finding secondary sources that have deals with these archived materials. Does anyone have citation to peer-review articles? There are plenty of news reports from the time (see the Operation ATLAS article 'external links'), so there's probably subsequently been a peer-review journal article by academic historian. Any suggestions? Ronreisman ( talk) 01:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
2019 and the Poison Hoax is still in Wikipedia, Shalom to all u liars and helpers of liars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.237.50.132 ( talk) 00:28, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
A blog cannot be considered as a reliable source. Even less when it is named Haskalah. Pluto2012 ( talk) 04:12, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
The old version of the lead only mentioned his role in the 1947-1948 Palestine Civil War. However, most of the text in the article is about other periods of his life, with his role in the 1947-1948 being only 1 out of 4 sections. I've added a brief summary in the lead to correct this. OtterAM ( talk) 23:44, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the lead only mention Hasan Salama's role in the Holy War Army or should it also mention his service with Nazi Germany and his death at the hands of the IDF? Here are two competing versions [1] and [2]. OtterAM ( talk) 00:11, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
List of references for HS and the Nazi Army |
|
References
Whatever else can be said about "independent scholar" Thomas G. Mitchell's book cited here, it isn't reliable for this. Everything in there comes openly from the book of Bar-Zohar and Haber, which is responsible for the bullshit story about poisoning the Tel-Aviv water supply. The debunking of that story can be found at Operation Atlas (Mandatory Palestine). Meanwhile, stuff cited to Mitchell is out until it is better cited. Zero talk 12:43, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
This is a continuation of the discussion above, and it can stand as a salutary lesson on treatment of dubious sources. The general rule of operating is: If there is a smell of rat, probably there is a rat around.
Davar of Feb 11, 1948 published a short report of which the following is a loose translation of the main part. Since I am a complete novice at Hebrew, even with Google's help, there can be mistakes. Please report them and they can be corrected.
Now I managed to obtain the source story in Le Monde of Jan 22 or 23, 1948. The start of it can be seen here, but I paid 2 euros for the full text. The relevant paragraph, which is the only place where "Salameh" or "Rommel" are mentioned, is this:
I'm not great at French either, so the following translation can also be corrected:
From this we can see: (1) The primary source is not Le Monde but the Hagana, but Davar hid this key fact from its readers. (2) The personal name "Hasan" does not appear in Le Monde; it is Davar who decided that "Hadj Salameh" is the same person as Hasan Salameh. (3) Le Monde describes him as a German named Kortel who was operating near Jerusalem under the name of Salameh, but nobody has ever seriously alleged that Salameh was not an Arab. Hasan Salameh was well known in Palestine since the 1930s, so it is entirely impossible that Davar didn't know he was an Arab. (4) Davar bolstered the false identification by placing Salameh at Jaffa, despite Le Monde placing him at Jerusalem. (5) The last part of Davar's story (if I translated it properly) didn't appear in Le Monde at all.
At the moment I can't find another mention of Major Kortel or Haj Salameh in the 1948 context; please let us know if you can. In summary, this was a dubious story in Le Monde reported in highly distorted form by Davar. Personally I believe the evidence is for deliberate deception on Davar's part. But we didn't need this investigation to know that the Davar story was unreliable for Wikipedia usage. It was, in fact, bloody obvious from the beginning. Zero talk 09:20, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't know if this is true or not but that's not wp:rs
Pluto2012 ( talk) 22:15, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
References
This is a long standing content, Please obtain consensus for removal. Infinity Knight ( talk) 21:02, 10 July 2017 (UTC)While in Damascus Sheikh Hassan Salameh indirectly approached the British Consul there with a view to obtaining employment with the Palestine Government for the purpose of rounding up his past comrades. His services were declined.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Hasan Salama. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:59, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I'm sorting Middle Eastern collaborators with Nazi Germany by their ethnicity, that's more accurate, so I want to replace this: Arab collaborators with Nazi Germany RedEye98 ( talk) 16:25, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
There seems to be an error in the article.
The article reads: “parachuted from a German Heinkel HeS 3 into mandatory Palestine”... However, the Heinkel HeS3 was a JET ENGINE, not an AIRPLANE.
I was of the assumptions that jet engines are usually attached to wings and form part of a plane. Not that they can fly independently, however I’m not an expert on the topic. 192.38.137.248 ( talk) 23:08, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
I've uploaded this photo of the 1945 Mandate of Palestine reward poster (pfft, barely offered any reward) which seems relevant - would appreciate if someone can add it to the article which is still seemingly edit-protected (time to remove?) Mostcommonphraseongoogle ( talk) 21:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
"comprades" does not seem to be an English word. Maybe either "comrades" or "compadres" are meant? As the article is edit-protected, I would appreciate this simple fix. Terber ( talk) 09:26, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Actually, I wonder if we shouldn't remove that whole sentence? It relies on primary sources, + a blog from the Israel State Archives (ISA), by a certain "Shlomo". That isn't really brilliant, Huldra ( talk) 21:39, 2 May 2023 (UTC)