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Please change: "He started a romantic relationship with Jack Galen McKinley and recruited him to work on conservative Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign.[16] Their relationship was troubled. When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1964, McKinley was 16 years old.[17]He was prone to depression and sometimes threatened to commit suicide if Milk did not show him enough attention.[18]" To this: "He started a romantic relationship with John Galen "Jack" McKinley (born October 18, 1946) [1]and recruited him to work on conservative Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign. When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1964, McKinley was 17 or 18 years old. Their relationship was troubled. McKinley was prone to depression and sometimes threatened to commit suicide if Milk did not show him enough attention." Southpaw70 ( talk) 23:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
References
Board members who opposed the curriculum called Milk a “pedophile” in the May meeting before voting it down. The 34-year-old Milk had a relationship with a 16-year-old while living in Greenwich Village in New York that has long been a source of controversy, according to the late San Francisco journalist Randy Shilts’ biography of Milk, “The Mayor of Castro Street.” The age of consent in New York was raised from 14 to 18 in 2017. Komrosky said in June that his statements about Milk “were not based upon him being a homosexual, but rather based upon him being an adult having a sexual relationship with a minor.”
References
So in January 1967, Milk and his then-20-year-old lover John Galen McKinley packed up their dog Trick and moved to Dallas. This time, Milk had no problem getting a job. He worked at Bache & Co.’s Dallas office in the Mercantile Continental Building at 1810 Commerce St.Xan747 ( talk) 16:36, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
John (Jack) Galen McKinley
Birth 18 Oct 1946 - Hagerstown, Washington, Maryland, USA
Death 14 February 1980 - New York City, New York, USA
Mother Unavailable
Father Unavailable
Born in Hagerstown, Washington, Maryland, USA on 18 Oct 1946. John (Jack) Galen McKinley married Harvey Bernard Milk. She passed away on 14 February 1980 in New York City, New York, USA.
I agree that there is little point in stating McKinley's age, although Jimjilin may have miscalculated it. According to Shilts, McKinley was 33 when he died on February 14, 1980 (Mayor of Castro Street, p. 343). If so, McKinley was 17 on February 14, 1964, and was 17 or 18 when Milk met him in late 1964. I believe the reference on p. 30 giving McKinley's age as 16 refers to his age when McKinley first met Tom O'Horgan, not when McKinley moved in with Milk. None of which matters for this Wikipedia entry.Vince Emery 18:35, 19 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinceemery (talk • contribs)
According to Milk's address book, in which he also recorded the birthdays of people he knew, McKinley was born October 18, 1946. Therefore, when Milk met McKinley in late 1964, McKinley was at least 17 years old, and possibly 18 years old. 17 is the age of consent in New York state, so the pedophile consideration is not valid in this case.Vince Emery 17:21, 6 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinceemery (talk • contribs)
@ Southpaw70, sorry I got busy on other edit requests and my own interests and forgot that I'd left this hanging. Pinging @ Vinceemery, what is your source for the claim that Milk's address book gives McKinley's birth date as October 18, 1946? Note that this is the same birth date listed by Find-a-grave attributed to the Daily Mail (Hagerstown, MD) Saturday, February 16, 1980 obituary. If we can source that newspaper clip then I think we can use that information in this article. Xan747 ( talk) 02:59, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
The following is a response that tripped an edit filter, but it doesn't appear to be talk page abuse, so I'm copying it to here after a request of WP:EFFP:
Vinceemery I have been writing with @ Xan747 about John Galen "Jack" McKinley's sentences on the Harvey Milk page. Xan747 mentioned that maybe I should communicate with you on this. I originally became concerned when McKinley's age was being brought up at school board meetings in Southern California, and Harvey Milk was being accused of being a pedophile. I see some sources that point to McKinley being 17 years old by early 1964 (social security records via Ancestry but they pull it from the Social Security Death Master File, the 1950 US Census, and The Morning Herald and The Daily Mail, both of Hagerstown, MD, with a small article reporting that 17 year old John McKinley went missing on October 22, 1963.) The social security records give the actual birthdate of October 18, 1946; the 1950 Census shows that McKinley is 3 years old by April 10, 1950; and two identical articles that ran in the local papers show that McKinley was 17 years old by the time he disappeared on October 22, 1963. Shilts' book mentions twice on page 30 that McKinley is 16 years old, but on page 376 he says that "Jack Galen McKinley commited [sic] suicide by the time primary research began on this book." So Shilts did not get to talk with McKinley and verify any of the information about him.
I think "Their relationship was troubled." should be removed because the language doesn't offer a neutral point of view.
On page 30, "John Galen McKinley delighted in telling Harvey this this was the sole explanation of why at sixteen he decided to quit high school, jump a Greyhound bus, and leave rural Hagerstown, Maryland, for the gay scene in Greenwich Village he'd heard rumors of."
Except for the age information, this above info. matches the November 4, 1963 articles that are posted in The Morning Herald and The Daily Mail from Hagerstown, MD that mention John McKinley was 17 years old when he went missing on October 22, 1963.
On page 30, referring to McKinley, "Lodging came easy in New York, first with Tom O'Horgan, an entertainer who had made a small mark in the lounge circuit by telling jokes as he strummed a harp. By 1963, O'Horgan had gone bohemian and was trying his hand at experimental theater. McKinley had lived with O'Horgan for only a few weeks when he came in one day to announce that a handsome businessman twice his age was vying for his affection."
(pg. 30)..."Within a few weeks, McKinley moved into Harvey Milk's Upper West Side apartment. They bought a dog...and settled into a middle-class domestic marriage. At thirty-three, Milk was launching a new life..."
Since it mentions that Harvey Milk was 33 years old and incorporating the news article reporting that 17 year old McKinley went missing October 22, 1963 - this happened sometime between Oct. 22, 1963 and Harvey's May 22, 1964 birthday. The relationship started before May 22, 1964.
I believe this sentence should be changed to incorporate the information above:"When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1964, McKinley was 16 years old."
Maybe it could be changed to update the timeframe they met and McKinley's age, "When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1963 or early 1964, McKinley was 17 years old."
Southpaw70 ( talk) 04:19, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 15:22, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
LGBT is modern political ideology / concept. It can't be said with any exactitude that he would have suppported LGBT positions. Surely it would be more accurate to refer to him as being not only gay or homosexual, but as a supporter of gay, homosexual, lesbian and same sex attracted rights? 2400:2410:9520:4C00:51C5:A7A0:4FF8:E941 ( talk) 13:39, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
As of today, this article is clear, very readable, and seems to be complete. Good job and thank you. Wordreader ( talk) 17:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Harvey Milk article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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![]() | Harvey Milk is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 27, 2008. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
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Please change: "He started a romantic relationship with Jack Galen McKinley and recruited him to work on conservative Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign.[16] Their relationship was troubled. When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1964, McKinley was 16 years old.[17]He was prone to depression and sometimes threatened to commit suicide if Milk did not show him enough attention.[18]" To this: "He started a romantic relationship with John Galen "Jack" McKinley (born October 18, 1946) [1]and recruited him to work on conservative Republican Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign. When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1964, McKinley was 17 or 18 years old. Their relationship was troubled. McKinley was prone to depression and sometimes threatened to commit suicide if Milk did not show him enough attention." Southpaw70 ( talk) 23:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
References
Board members who opposed the curriculum called Milk a “pedophile” in the May meeting before voting it down. The 34-year-old Milk had a relationship with a 16-year-old while living in Greenwich Village in New York that has long been a source of controversy, according to the late San Francisco journalist Randy Shilts’ biography of Milk, “The Mayor of Castro Street.” The age of consent in New York was raised from 14 to 18 in 2017. Komrosky said in June that his statements about Milk “were not based upon him being a homosexual, but rather based upon him being an adult having a sexual relationship with a minor.”
References
So in January 1967, Milk and his then-20-year-old lover John Galen McKinley packed up their dog Trick and moved to Dallas. This time, Milk had no problem getting a job. He worked at Bache & Co.’s Dallas office in the Mercantile Continental Building at 1810 Commerce St.Xan747 ( talk) 16:36, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
John (Jack) Galen McKinley
Birth 18 Oct 1946 - Hagerstown, Washington, Maryland, USA
Death 14 February 1980 - New York City, New York, USA
Mother Unavailable
Father Unavailable
Born in Hagerstown, Washington, Maryland, USA on 18 Oct 1946. John (Jack) Galen McKinley married Harvey Bernard Milk. She passed away on 14 February 1980 in New York City, New York, USA.
I agree that there is little point in stating McKinley's age, although Jimjilin may have miscalculated it. According to Shilts, McKinley was 33 when he died on February 14, 1980 (Mayor of Castro Street, p. 343). If so, McKinley was 17 on February 14, 1964, and was 17 or 18 when Milk met him in late 1964. I believe the reference on p. 30 giving McKinley's age as 16 refers to his age when McKinley first met Tom O'Horgan, not when McKinley moved in with Milk. None of which matters for this Wikipedia entry.Vince Emery 18:35, 19 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinceemery (talk • contribs)
According to Milk's address book, in which he also recorded the birthdays of people he knew, McKinley was born October 18, 1946. Therefore, when Milk met McKinley in late 1964, McKinley was at least 17 years old, and possibly 18 years old. 17 is the age of consent in New York state, so the pedophile consideration is not valid in this case.Vince Emery 17:21, 6 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinceemery (talk • contribs)
@ Southpaw70, sorry I got busy on other edit requests and my own interests and forgot that I'd left this hanging. Pinging @ Vinceemery, what is your source for the claim that Milk's address book gives McKinley's birth date as October 18, 1946? Note that this is the same birth date listed by Find-a-grave attributed to the Daily Mail (Hagerstown, MD) Saturday, February 16, 1980 obituary. If we can source that newspaper clip then I think we can use that information in this article. Xan747 ( talk) 02:59, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
The following is a response that tripped an edit filter, but it doesn't appear to be talk page abuse, so I'm copying it to here after a request of WP:EFFP:
Vinceemery I have been writing with @ Xan747 about John Galen "Jack" McKinley's sentences on the Harvey Milk page. Xan747 mentioned that maybe I should communicate with you on this. I originally became concerned when McKinley's age was being brought up at school board meetings in Southern California, and Harvey Milk was being accused of being a pedophile. I see some sources that point to McKinley being 17 years old by early 1964 (social security records via Ancestry but they pull it from the Social Security Death Master File, the 1950 US Census, and The Morning Herald and The Daily Mail, both of Hagerstown, MD, with a small article reporting that 17 year old John McKinley went missing on October 22, 1963.) The social security records give the actual birthdate of October 18, 1946; the 1950 Census shows that McKinley is 3 years old by April 10, 1950; and two identical articles that ran in the local papers show that McKinley was 17 years old by the time he disappeared on October 22, 1963. Shilts' book mentions twice on page 30 that McKinley is 16 years old, but on page 376 he says that "Jack Galen McKinley commited [sic] suicide by the time primary research began on this book." So Shilts did not get to talk with McKinley and verify any of the information about him.
I think "Their relationship was troubled." should be removed because the language doesn't offer a neutral point of view.
On page 30, "John Galen McKinley delighted in telling Harvey this this was the sole explanation of why at sixteen he decided to quit high school, jump a Greyhound bus, and leave rural Hagerstown, Maryland, for the gay scene in Greenwich Village he'd heard rumors of."
Except for the age information, this above info. matches the November 4, 1963 articles that are posted in The Morning Herald and The Daily Mail from Hagerstown, MD that mention John McKinley was 17 years old when he went missing on October 22, 1963.
On page 30, referring to McKinley, "Lodging came easy in New York, first with Tom O'Horgan, an entertainer who had made a small mark in the lounge circuit by telling jokes as he strummed a harp. By 1963, O'Horgan had gone bohemian and was trying his hand at experimental theater. McKinley had lived with O'Horgan for only a few weeks when he came in one day to announce that a handsome businessman twice his age was vying for his affection."
(pg. 30)..."Within a few weeks, McKinley moved into Harvey Milk's Upper West Side apartment. They bought a dog...and settled into a middle-class domestic marriage. At thirty-three, Milk was launching a new life..."
Since it mentions that Harvey Milk was 33 years old and incorporating the news article reporting that 17 year old McKinley went missing October 22, 1963 - this happened sometime between Oct. 22, 1963 and Harvey's May 22, 1964 birthday. The relationship started before May 22, 1964.
I believe this sentence should be changed to incorporate the information above:"When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1964, McKinley was 16 years old."
Maybe it could be changed to update the timeframe they met and McKinley's age, "When McKinley first began his relationship with Milk in late 1963 or early 1964, McKinley was 17 years old."
Southpaw70 ( talk) 04:19, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 15:22, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
LGBT is modern political ideology / concept. It can't be said with any exactitude that he would have suppported LGBT positions. Surely it would be more accurate to refer to him as being not only gay or homosexual, but as a supporter of gay, homosexual, lesbian and same sex attracted rights? 2400:2410:9520:4C00:51C5:A7A0:4FF8:E941 ( talk) 13:39, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
As of today, this article is clear, very readable, and seems to be complete. Good job and thank you. Wordreader ( talk) 17:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)