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The link to John Philip Sousa's "The Stars and Stripes Forever" takes me to a disambiguation page, and when I tried to change it to link directly to the March, it didn't work (red link). Can somebody fix this? 24.17.77.57 23:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Can someone pin down what was used to waterproof the tent? It just seems odd to me that in time of war, 6,000 gallons of gas would be available for such a purpose. I also understand from somewhere that the Army had denied Ringling Brothers some type of better, more flame retardant material because it was needed for the war effort. However, after the fire, the Army supplied the circus with the material. Does anyone have a source for that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.182.69.47 ( talk • contribs) 10:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Was Emmett Kelly the clown a survivor of the fire? The Wikipedia article for Kelly mentions a famous photo of him trying to extinguish the flames of the circus fire. — Mmathu 02:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Image:Htfdcircusfire.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
This article contains virtually no in-line citations, many unattributed claims and opinions, and a tone suggesting personal essay/research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.157.102 ( talk) 04:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I have heavily researched this project, partly alongside Don Massey, author of Matter of Degree, who was my mentor as a young writer working on another fire disaster piece. There is no doubt that he and Davey believe 1565 to be Eleanor Emily Cook. According to a first hand story I heard, Mrs. Cook was far too ill for at least six months to even be told of the fates of her dead son and missing daughter. Mrs. Cook left Hartford for good after the fire, so was not subject to the years of newspaper stories while living in Mass. Even so, she was shown no publicity. Apparently, she became very upset at the mention of Eleanor, and refused to believed she had perished. When she did speak of Eleanor, it was of hope that one day she'd simply show up at the door, as if the Circus Fire did not happen. Apparently, she remained in a deep denial for years. This kept her family from even trying to convince that the carefully-taken photos of the girl buried unburned in Hartford known as 1565 were those of Eleanor. Donald Cook thought 1565 was his sister, and in young adulthood, he tried to claim the body, but was blown off by cops. Years later, Rick Davey spent years trying to nail down 1565's identity. Careful examination of the photos show it certainly could be EEC. Davey compared photos of her ears, a very unique identifier, and they were said to be an exact match. There was never a positive identification on teeth, because that would require significant work by a forensic dentist, removing the lower mandible to make such. Looking at the teeth, as O'Nan said happened, would not be enough. This fact is according to one of the same dentists who worked at the site of the World Trade Center attacks and other high-profile cases, Dr. Haskell Askin. As far as being a brunette, every photo of EEC I've seen showed her as at least a dark blonde, and she was described as such. As the story goes, an out-of-town relative who hardly knew Eleanor was the one who made the split-second morgue decision that it wasn't Eleanor, and the coroner stated that he didn't feel the woman was qualified to decide either way. Additionally, from what I remember, and this was years ago, 1565 was unburned, but badly trampled to death, altering her facial features somewhat. When Mrs. Cook was very elderly, Davey and her surviving son showed her the photos of 1565, and she caved, finally agreeing it was Eleanor. That's why the body was exhumed and reburied in the family plot. According to Don Massey, Stewart O'Nan contacted Davey when he was first writing his circus fire book, complimenting Davey's research that led to the discovery of Little Miss 1565. Since a first book contract was already in the works, Davey couldn't legally speak to O'Nan, or share the resources and information he had. According to the story, O'Nan was mad, and added a few harsh sentences about Davey in his book, and making the last sentence something like, "The reason Mrs. Cook never picked up the body was because it was not her daughter." O'Nan's book was released first, and then Davey/Massey re-tooled Matter of Degree for more than a year to rebut the claims O'Nan made about 1565. If a 2005 investigation was looking into O'Nan's claims, they must not have amounted to much, as a half a decade has passed with no change to the formal identity of 1565 as Eleanor Emily Cook. Since the 1565 section quotes no sources, and disparages the reputations of Don Massey and Rick Davey (I believe it says their work is "revisionist fiction"), an editor who knows how to (I do not) should flag this article as not neutral, possibly biased and unverifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popartpete ( talk • contribs) 05:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
The lede says "attended by approximately 6,800 people" but later text says "about 7,500 to 8,700". Randall Bart Talk 01:38, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
It is just full of repetition ( tautology). No info box. There is hardly a lede, and the so-called "history" section says what is repeated in the other sections. (It's not a history it's what happened) Unless a few hours on one day is substantial enough to be called a "history". Furthermore there are no inline references from reliable third-party sources. So separating fact from fiction is impossible.
This work needs to be done! I don't know anything about this event, so I can't do it but this article is very, very poor at the moment.
Needs a major shake down from top to bottom. 31.52.210.43 ( talk) 08:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
While not a fan of Davey & Massey's theories, I'm puzzled as to why the book isn't listed in Non-Fiction & Fiction ??? Irish Melkite ( talk) 05:20, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
I recorded an oral history of my mother (judith shapiro) and her recollection of surviving the fire. I have added a synopsis of it to the personal recollection section. Would a direct quote be better? I feel this is worthy of the encyclopedia as it details she and her group evaded the fire. She (7 years old) had to be pushed from the high bleachers by an adult, which provides context around the difficult choices adults had to face to keep their friends and family alive. If anyone feels my posting this herein is in violation of Wiki policies please let me know and I will remove. If there is a better way to make this edit, i'm very open to learning. I have noted within the ref the time code where in the interview the fire is discussed (00:08:23) - again if there is a better way to do that, please let me know. 173.54.209.67 Hhawk ( talk) 22:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I put the entire text of William Pond's email in the article because I know how these things disappear from television news websites. If it is not appropriate I will gladly move it to the talk page. It should be archived. BTW the photos from the station house that he burned were copies. The original pictures are safe.
I have serious doubts that nude morgue photos were on display at a public memorial. Probably it was just the famous headshot -- in which she has a white gown. Apparently Pond was a known troublemaker and did this out of spite, according to firefighters at 14, but it's all on a blog and I can't use it. I am trying to find an official, usable source. -- Bluejay Young ( talk) 21:12, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Hartford circus fire/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
According to an article in the National Fire Protection Association publication, The Quarterly, dated July 1944, by Warren Y. Kimball - NFPA Engineer, "The practically new canvas of the "Big Top" had no flameproofing. It had been processed against water by the use of parafin applied with gasoline as a solvent. This was done in late April. It was said to have been the time-honored method of waterproofing used by the circus. The gasoline solvent undoubtedly had evaporated prior to the date of the fire, although possibly some petrolium residues may have remained within the parafin waterproofing." DanCorbett 21:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
Substituted at 21:43, 26 June 2016 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
JJMC89 bot (
talk •
contribs) 21:43, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 13:26, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Hartford circus fire → Hartford Circus Fire – This is a singular event, not a generic noun, and is consistently capitalized in history texts. Move back to original title. oknazevad ( talk) 22:40, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Just to show that I'm not making up that it's capitalized in reliable sources, by the way, here's just a small sample of the variety of sources I've found, including newspapers, documentaries, historical societies, and university libraries.
oknazevad ( talk) 18:43, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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The link to John Philip Sousa's "The Stars and Stripes Forever" takes me to a disambiguation page, and when I tried to change it to link directly to the March, it didn't work (red link). Can somebody fix this? 24.17.77.57 23:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Can someone pin down what was used to waterproof the tent? It just seems odd to me that in time of war, 6,000 gallons of gas would be available for such a purpose. I also understand from somewhere that the Army had denied Ringling Brothers some type of better, more flame retardant material because it was needed for the war effort. However, after the fire, the Army supplied the circus with the material. Does anyone have a source for that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.182.69.47 ( talk • contribs) 10:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Was Emmett Kelly the clown a survivor of the fire? The Wikipedia article for Kelly mentions a famous photo of him trying to extinguish the flames of the circus fire. — Mmathu 02:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Image:Htfdcircusfire.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
This article contains virtually no in-line citations, many unattributed claims and opinions, and a tone suggesting personal essay/research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.157.102 ( talk) 04:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I have heavily researched this project, partly alongside Don Massey, author of Matter of Degree, who was my mentor as a young writer working on another fire disaster piece. There is no doubt that he and Davey believe 1565 to be Eleanor Emily Cook. According to a first hand story I heard, Mrs. Cook was far too ill for at least six months to even be told of the fates of her dead son and missing daughter. Mrs. Cook left Hartford for good after the fire, so was not subject to the years of newspaper stories while living in Mass. Even so, she was shown no publicity. Apparently, she became very upset at the mention of Eleanor, and refused to believed she had perished. When she did speak of Eleanor, it was of hope that one day she'd simply show up at the door, as if the Circus Fire did not happen. Apparently, she remained in a deep denial for years. This kept her family from even trying to convince that the carefully-taken photos of the girl buried unburned in Hartford known as 1565 were those of Eleanor. Donald Cook thought 1565 was his sister, and in young adulthood, he tried to claim the body, but was blown off by cops. Years later, Rick Davey spent years trying to nail down 1565's identity. Careful examination of the photos show it certainly could be EEC. Davey compared photos of her ears, a very unique identifier, and they were said to be an exact match. There was never a positive identification on teeth, because that would require significant work by a forensic dentist, removing the lower mandible to make such. Looking at the teeth, as O'Nan said happened, would not be enough. This fact is according to one of the same dentists who worked at the site of the World Trade Center attacks and other high-profile cases, Dr. Haskell Askin. As far as being a brunette, every photo of EEC I've seen showed her as at least a dark blonde, and she was described as such. As the story goes, an out-of-town relative who hardly knew Eleanor was the one who made the split-second morgue decision that it wasn't Eleanor, and the coroner stated that he didn't feel the woman was qualified to decide either way. Additionally, from what I remember, and this was years ago, 1565 was unburned, but badly trampled to death, altering her facial features somewhat. When Mrs. Cook was very elderly, Davey and her surviving son showed her the photos of 1565, and she caved, finally agreeing it was Eleanor. That's why the body was exhumed and reburied in the family plot. According to Don Massey, Stewart O'Nan contacted Davey when he was first writing his circus fire book, complimenting Davey's research that led to the discovery of Little Miss 1565. Since a first book contract was already in the works, Davey couldn't legally speak to O'Nan, or share the resources and information he had. According to the story, O'Nan was mad, and added a few harsh sentences about Davey in his book, and making the last sentence something like, "The reason Mrs. Cook never picked up the body was because it was not her daughter." O'Nan's book was released first, and then Davey/Massey re-tooled Matter of Degree for more than a year to rebut the claims O'Nan made about 1565. If a 2005 investigation was looking into O'Nan's claims, they must not have amounted to much, as a half a decade has passed with no change to the formal identity of 1565 as Eleanor Emily Cook. Since the 1565 section quotes no sources, and disparages the reputations of Don Massey and Rick Davey (I believe it says their work is "revisionist fiction"), an editor who knows how to (I do not) should flag this article as not neutral, possibly biased and unverifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popartpete ( talk • contribs) 05:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
The lede says "attended by approximately 6,800 people" but later text says "about 7,500 to 8,700". Randall Bart Talk 01:38, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
It is just full of repetition ( tautology). No info box. There is hardly a lede, and the so-called "history" section says what is repeated in the other sections. (It's not a history it's what happened) Unless a few hours on one day is substantial enough to be called a "history". Furthermore there are no inline references from reliable third-party sources. So separating fact from fiction is impossible.
This work needs to be done! I don't know anything about this event, so I can't do it but this article is very, very poor at the moment.
Needs a major shake down from top to bottom. 31.52.210.43 ( talk) 08:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
While not a fan of Davey & Massey's theories, I'm puzzled as to why the book isn't listed in Non-Fiction & Fiction ??? Irish Melkite ( talk) 05:20, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
I recorded an oral history of my mother (judith shapiro) and her recollection of surviving the fire. I have added a synopsis of it to the personal recollection section. Would a direct quote be better? I feel this is worthy of the encyclopedia as it details she and her group evaded the fire. She (7 years old) had to be pushed from the high bleachers by an adult, which provides context around the difficult choices adults had to face to keep their friends and family alive. If anyone feels my posting this herein is in violation of Wiki policies please let me know and I will remove. If there is a better way to make this edit, i'm very open to learning. I have noted within the ref the time code where in the interview the fire is discussed (00:08:23) - again if there is a better way to do that, please let me know. 173.54.209.67 Hhawk ( talk) 22:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I put the entire text of William Pond's email in the article because I know how these things disappear from television news websites. If it is not appropriate I will gladly move it to the talk page. It should be archived. BTW the photos from the station house that he burned were copies. The original pictures are safe.
I have serious doubts that nude morgue photos were on display at a public memorial. Probably it was just the famous headshot -- in which she has a white gown. Apparently Pond was a known troublemaker and did this out of spite, according to firefighters at 14, but it's all on a blog and I can't use it. I am trying to find an official, usable source. -- Bluejay Young ( talk) 21:12, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Hartford circus fire/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
According to an article in the National Fire Protection Association publication, The Quarterly, dated July 1944, by Warren Y. Kimball - NFPA Engineer, "The practically new canvas of the "Big Top" had no flameproofing. It had been processed against water by the use of parafin applied with gasoline as a solvent. This was done in late April. It was said to have been the time-honored method of waterproofing used by the circus. The gasoline solvent undoubtedly had evaporated prior to the date of the fire, although possibly some petrolium residues may have remained within the parafin waterproofing." DanCorbett 21:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
Substituted at 21:43, 26 June 2016 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
JJMC89 bot (
talk •
contribs) 21:43, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 13:26, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Hartford circus fire → Hartford Circus Fire – This is a singular event, not a generic noun, and is consistently capitalized in history texts. Move back to original title. oknazevad ( talk) 22:40, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Just to show that I'm not making up that it's capitalized in reliable sources, by the way, here's just a small sample of the variety of sources I've found, including newspapers, documentaries, historical societies, and university libraries.
oknazevad ( talk) 18:43, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Hartford circus fire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:16, 4 September 2017 (UTC)