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IS there a NPOV way we can talk about the low quality nature of the show but bring up how Jun being in it brings the show up to an acceptible range?
"Her magic wand is named sphere Tom"
Is it Tom or Tama? In the manga, Yuuma refers to Koyuki's wand as 'Tama-chan' ( http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2072/010cf0.gif) I don't know about game/anime though... Roxybudgy 03:53, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: RESULT. moved by Juhachi. In ictu oculi ( talk) 07:39, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Happiness! → Happiness! (manga) – or Happiness! (visual novel). With Happiness!!! (Kaela Kimura song) and everything else on Happiness (disambiguation), a single "!" vs "!!!" fails 4 out of 5 of WP:CRITERIA. In ictu oculi ( talk) 16:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Even the official character bios for Jun call the character a boy (オトコノコ) and an okama (オカマ), which is a euphemism for a gay man. If the primary source material refers to Jun as male, then that is what should be given on Wikipedia based solely on WP:V because it is undeniable and free from the subjectivity ( original research) that might arise from interpreting ( WP:NPOV) the character's identity based on their appearance and behavior.-- 十 八 01:13, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
As an attempt at a compromise, I tried to rewrite Jun's bio to remove gendered pronouns, but also include the fact that the character was born male, as stated in the official bios linked above.-- 十 八 01:56, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank you dearly for at least changing Jun's pronouns to neutral. That is fair enough. Here's the thing... I simply relate with her character, and as such, understand it more so than most would. That's not bragging, I'm just really in tune with her. If the official page refers to her as a "boy" or a "gay man" then so be it. I can't change that. However, that just isn't true. If it wants to describe her as that, then that's out of my control. But seeing that she's transgender is simply common sense. The official material calling her a gay boy contradicts with many of her appearances within the series. Whether that be the novel or the anime. In terms of the anime, there is no debate of her being transgender whatsoever. She literally cried tears of joy at becoming a biological female. But even in the novel, there are instances where she clearly is shown to be transgender. Her page on the official Happiness website might label her as male, but regardless of it all, it simply isn't true. You're honestly the first person who doesn't see her the way I do (after explaining) I'm just happy that the vast majority of her fan base understands that she is female. Especially her Japanese fan base. Again, thank you dearly for reaching a compromise. It means the world. Here's hoping many others will understand that she is transgender. Jun Watarase ( talk) 20:23, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
I understand, too. I'm a transgender girl. Masterball2 ( talk) 17:33, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
If I may add another point of view to this conversation, I'm a gay man who has experienced gender dysphoria throughout my life. Jun was one of the first gender-nonconforming MAAB characters I encountered and became a reference point for me when I was very young and struggling to figure out my identity. I will always consider Jun to be a boy, because that is how he makes sense to me and the way I personally used him as a lens to look at my own gender issues. I'm personally inclined to agree with 十八 on this one, but I think at the very least it can be agreed that Jun does not have an unambiguous gender identity. With that in mind, I think trying to inscribe an identity on Jun as objective fact just steals Jun from other categories of gender-nonconforming who may identify with Jun in different ways. The current language for Jun's bio seems almost ideally neutral to me. Orinrin ( talk) 00:34, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
forget what I said about me being a transgender girl earlier. but anyway, Jun is clearly a trans girl. Masterball2 ( talk) 20:57, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
IS there a NPOV way we can talk about the low quality nature of the show but bring up how Jun being in it brings the show up to an acceptible range?
"Her magic wand is named sphere Tom"
Is it Tom or Tama? In the manga, Yuuma refers to Koyuki's wand as 'Tama-chan' ( http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2072/010cf0.gif) I don't know about game/anime though... Roxybudgy 03:53, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: RESULT. moved by Juhachi. In ictu oculi ( talk) 07:39, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Happiness! → Happiness! (manga) – or Happiness! (visual novel). With Happiness!!! (Kaela Kimura song) and everything else on Happiness (disambiguation), a single "!" vs "!!!" fails 4 out of 5 of WP:CRITERIA. In ictu oculi ( talk) 16:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Even the official character bios for Jun call the character a boy (オトコノコ) and an okama (オカマ), which is a euphemism for a gay man. If the primary source material refers to Jun as male, then that is what should be given on Wikipedia based solely on WP:V because it is undeniable and free from the subjectivity ( original research) that might arise from interpreting ( WP:NPOV) the character's identity based on their appearance and behavior.-- 十 八 01:13, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
As an attempt at a compromise, I tried to rewrite Jun's bio to remove gendered pronouns, but also include the fact that the character was born male, as stated in the official bios linked above.-- 十 八 01:56, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank you dearly for at least changing Jun's pronouns to neutral. That is fair enough. Here's the thing... I simply relate with her character, and as such, understand it more so than most would. That's not bragging, I'm just really in tune with her. If the official page refers to her as a "boy" or a "gay man" then so be it. I can't change that. However, that just isn't true. If it wants to describe her as that, then that's out of my control. But seeing that she's transgender is simply common sense. The official material calling her a gay boy contradicts with many of her appearances within the series. Whether that be the novel or the anime. In terms of the anime, there is no debate of her being transgender whatsoever. She literally cried tears of joy at becoming a biological female. But even in the novel, there are instances where she clearly is shown to be transgender. Her page on the official Happiness website might label her as male, but regardless of it all, it simply isn't true. You're honestly the first person who doesn't see her the way I do (after explaining) I'm just happy that the vast majority of her fan base understands that she is female. Especially her Japanese fan base. Again, thank you dearly for reaching a compromise. It means the world. Here's hoping many others will understand that she is transgender. Jun Watarase ( talk) 20:23, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
I understand, too. I'm a transgender girl. Masterball2 ( talk) 17:33, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
If I may add another point of view to this conversation, I'm a gay man who has experienced gender dysphoria throughout my life. Jun was one of the first gender-nonconforming MAAB characters I encountered and became a reference point for me when I was very young and struggling to figure out my identity. I will always consider Jun to be a boy, because that is how he makes sense to me and the way I personally used him as a lens to look at my own gender issues. I'm personally inclined to agree with 十八 on this one, but I think at the very least it can be agreed that Jun does not have an unambiguous gender identity. With that in mind, I think trying to inscribe an identity on Jun as objective fact just steals Jun from other categories of gender-nonconforming who may identify with Jun in different ways. The current language for Jun's bio seems almost ideally neutral to me. Orinrin ( talk) 00:34, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
forget what I said about me being a transgender girl earlier. but anyway, Jun is clearly a trans girl. Masterball2 ( talk) 20:57, 25 November 2019 (UTC)