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The contents of the Hanbok as social status page were merged into Hanbok. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. (11 January 2017) |
The first "Water-Moon Avalokitesh varapainting" features three Song-style noble costumes. The one on the right is presumed to be a maid, not a noble, not a Song costume. I want you to separate them. This is a misconception that all the characters in the illustration are dressed in Song-style clothing.
First of all, Korean-Chinese are Chinese, not Korean. And Hanbok is definitely Korean culture. Do you agree? User10281129 ( talk) 17:45, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Since they from the Korean peninsula, they are immigrants. How immigrant's culture can be a part of Chinese culture? User10281129 ( talk) 18:05, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
"do you think that present-days Joseon-ot and chaoxianfu should be separated from the hanbok page because they are evolving away from the South Korean hanbok?" so to answer your question, Korea separated into North Korea and South Korea. Thus, North Korea and South Korea has legitimacy as real Koreas. But Korean-Chinese are immigrants. You said "The Korean Chinese in China are not first-generation immigrants from the Korean peninsula but are Chinese nationals and some have lived in China for quite a few centuries now." Due to the geographic proximity between China and the Korean Peninsula, population migration of some kind had often occurred throughout history. However, most early ethnic Koreans in China had been assimilated by the Han Chinese, Manchus and Mongols. Thus, the overwhelming majority of today's ethnic Korean population in China are descendants of recent Korean arrivals. Since they are immigrants, they don't have any legitimacy. Now they are fully Chinese. Now my question is...if you think Hanbok is a part of Chinese culture, is Hanbok a part of American culture as well? User10281129 ( talk) 19:43, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
"The reason why I have mainly added the recent content is to emphasize that the evolution of hanbok in the two Koreas and China." you cannot treat them as Same level as two Koreas. User10281129 ( talk) 19:50, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
They are literally "Korean-Chinese". I want to confirm that they are just immigrants and Their homeland is Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 19:52, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Nope. Hanbok is not a part of Chinese culture or American culture. It's just Korean culture. User10281129 ( talk) 20:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
yes. They(Korean immigrants) can enjoy Korean culture. But Its still "Korean". According to your logic, Americans can claim every cultures from around the world as a part of American culture by themselves. User10281129 ( talk) 20:19, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
There is country of origin and they are North Korea and South Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 20:21, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
It is world's common sense that Hanbok is traditional clothes of South Korea and North Korea. But you are suddenly adding china into it. Why? User10281129 ( talk) 20:51, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
We need to restore the stable version. I hope you agree with it. You can write about Korean-Chinese's hanbok as immigrants but dont put them as same level as two koreas. And dont write Chinese hanbok name in introducing section. User10281129 ( talk) 21:00, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Furthermore, you said "Due to the isolation from each other for about 50 years, the styles of hanbok in South Korea, North Korea, and China, worn by the Korean ethnics from these three countries have developed separately from each other." but i think you used unconfirmed source. The source says "Women Entrepreneurs offers a collection of almost two dozen cases that explore the process by which women become entrepreneurs, as well as the opportunities and challenges they face in growing their businesses." Do not use unrelated source User10281129 ( talk) 21:04, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
“Women Entrepreneurs: Inspiring Stories from Emerging Economies and Developing Countries” can not be a reliable source. WP:NOR User10281129 ( talk) 11:18, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Hanbok is definitely imported or importing from Two Koreas. Its their homeland's legacy. Korean-Chinese wear the same type of hanbok as South Koreans. Korean-Chinese people gets a lot of cultural influences from South Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 11:20, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Basically your motivation is based on your opinion that immigrant's culture can be a part of Chinese culture. And it is you who makes changes to content that has been around for a long time. User10281129 ( talk) 11:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
If you want to change content to how you think it should be, then use talk page first. Currently, Your edits brings a lots of controversies. You are definitely aware of this. User10281129 ( talk) 11:33, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Btw, why did you write Hanbok in mandarin? Mandarin is Han Chinese language, not Korean language. User10281129 ( talk) 12:10, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Many people do not regarding them as same level as two koreas. They are immigrants from Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 12:13, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
"your arguments are also making me quite uncomfortable because they seem to be rooted in discrimination towards discrimination, stereotypes, and prejudices."- now you are making me a racist? I hope i misunderstood it. But i can confirm that it is not discrimination towards discrimination, stereotypes, and prejudices User10281129 ( talk) 12:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Do not write in mandarin. There is their language and hanbok is not han Chinese's culture. User10281129 ( talk) 12:19, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
There is no third Korea. Korea was divided into two Koreas. User10281129 ( talk) 12:21, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Your opinion represents the argument of the Chinese Communist Party. ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/hanbok-beijing-winter-olympics-opening-sparks-south-korea-chinan-anger) User10281129 ( talk) 12:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
They could speak Mandarin. But their first language is Korean. And most of them live in South Korea( https://www.chosun.com/national/national_general/2022/01/20/RO4T7ATAPJG7FOI7VTMBCTTPGQ/). User10281129 ( talk) 12:30, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Every koreatowns in around the world are third Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 12:36, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Mandarin is han Chinese language. So it would be kinda weird if you write in mandarin. mandarin is not korean language. User10281129 ( talk) 12:45, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Does people seriously recognizing Yuanbian as third korea? Isnt it just nickname? (its not a question) User10281129 ( talk) 12:47, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
It is weird. Korean language isn't Chinese language. User10281129 ( talk) 12:49, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
1. Yuanbian is not separated territory from Korea. 2. Korean-Chinese are just immigrants like Korean-American. User10281129 ( talk) 12:51, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes. Thats called "nickname". User10281129 ( talk) 12:52, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Mandarin is not korean language. So if you wanted to explain hanbok as a part of Korean-Chinese's culture, then you shouldve use korean language, not mandarin. User10281129 ( talk) 12:57, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Two koreas are sovereign states. And both have legitimacy due to the division of Korea. But Yuanbian is not. Korean-Chinese are immigrants from North Korea and South Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 13:01, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Yanbian is not Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 13:05, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Yanbian is just small little town in China. Koreas are north Korea and South Korea. Its just common sense. User10281129 ( talk) 13:08, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
By who? Chinese communist party? According to Objective perspective, they are just immigrants. (Its not a question) User10281129 ( talk) 13:10, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Korean-Chinese people wear same type of hanbok as South Koreans. They gets a lot of influence from South Korea. Furthermore, most of them live in South Korea. ( https://www.chosun.com/national/national_general/2022/01/20/RO4T7ATAPJG7FOI7VTMBCTTPGQ/). There is no difference between two Koreas hanbok and korean-Chinese's hanbok. User10281129 ( talk) 13:23, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
I've made an attempt to address some (imo) issues with the article. Will document hopefully non-obvious suggestions here.
IMO issues:
Suggestions:
I've given up for now, as I have other articles I've been meaning to work on. Encourage someone else to pick up the torch. toobigtokale ( talk) 23:14, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
https://asiasociety.org/korea/hanbok-part-1-origin-and-history https://kollectionk.com/guide-to-korean-traditional-clothing-hanbok
i plan on editing to add more about the modern uses of hanboks such as design or ceremonies and traditions people participate in. Pigeonidolization ( talk) 20:01, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hanbok article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 180 days |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the Hanbok as social status page were merged into Hanbok. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. (11 January 2017) |
The first "Water-Moon Avalokitesh varapainting" features three Song-style noble costumes. The one on the right is presumed to be a maid, not a noble, not a Song costume. I want you to separate them. This is a misconception that all the characters in the illustration are dressed in Song-style clothing.
First of all, Korean-Chinese are Chinese, not Korean. And Hanbok is definitely Korean culture. Do you agree? User10281129 ( talk) 17:45, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Since they from the Korean peninsula, they are immigrants. How immigrant's culture can be a part of Chinese culture? User10281129 ( talk) 18:05, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
"do you think that present-days Joseon-ot and chaoxianfu should be separated from the hanbok page because they are evolving away from the South Korean hanbok?" so to answer your question, Korea separated into North Korea and South Korea. Thus, North Korea and South Korea has legitimacy as real Koreas. But Korean-Chinese are immigrants. You said "The Korean Chinese in China are not first-generation immigrants from the Korean peninsula but are Chinese nationals and some have lived in China for quite a few centuries now." Due to the geographic proximity between China and the Korean Peninsula, population migration of some kind had often occurred throughout history. However, most early ethnic Koreans in China had been assimilated by the Han Chinese, Manchus and Mongols. Thus, the overwhelming majority of today's ethnic Korean population in China are descendants of recent Korean arrivals. Since they are immigrants, they don't have any legitimacy. Now they are fully Chinese. Now my question is...if you think Hanbok is a part of Chinese culture, is Hanbok a part of American culture as well? User10281129 ( talk) 19:43, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
"The reason why I have mainly added the recent content is to emphasize that the evolution of hanbok in the two Koreas and China." you cannot treat them as Same level as two Koreas. User10281129 ( talk) 19:50, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
They are literally "Korean-Chinese". I want to confirm that they are just immigrants and Their homeland is Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 19:52, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Nope. Hanbok is not a part of Chinese culture or American culture. It's just Korean culture. User10281129 ( talk) 20:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
yes. They(Korean immigrants) can enjoy Korean culture. But Its still "Korean". According to your logic, Americans can claim every cultures from around the world as a part of American culture by themselves. User10281129 ( talk) 20:19, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
There is country of origin and they are North Korea and South Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 20:21, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
It is world's common sense that Hanbok is traditional clothes of South Korea and North Korea. But you are suddenly adding china into it. Why? User10281129 ( talk) 20:51, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
We need to restore the stable version. I hope you agree with it. You can write about Korean-Chinese's hanbok as immigrants but dont put them as same level as two koreas. And dont write Chinese hanbok name in introducing section. User10281129 ( talk) 21:00, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Furthermore, you said "Due to the isolation from each other for about 50 years, the styles of hanbok in South Korea, North Korea, and China, worn by the Korean ethnics from these three countries have developed separately from each other." but i think you used unconfirmed source. The source says "Women Entrepreneurs offers a collection of almost two dozen cases that explore the process by which women become entrepreneurs, as well as the opportunities and challenges they face in growing their businesses." Do not use unrelated source User10281129 ( talk) 21:04, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
“Women Entrepreneurs: Inspiring Stories from Emerging Economies and Developing Countries” can not be a reliable source. WP:NOR User10281129 ( talk) 11:18, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Hanbok is definitely imported or importing from Two Koreas. Its their homeland's legacy. Korean-Chinese wear the same type of hanbok as South Koreans. Korean-Chinese people gets a lot of cultural influences from South Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 11:20, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Basically your motivation is based on your opinion that immigrant's culture can be a part of Chinese culture. And it is you who makes changes to content that has been around for a long time. User10281129 ( talk) 11:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
If you want to change content to how you think it should be, then use talk page first. Currently, Your edits brings a lots of controversies. You are definitely aware of this. User10281129 ( talk) 11:33, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Btw, why did you write Hanbok in mandarin? Mandarin is Han Chinese language, not Korean language. User10281129 ( talk) 12:10, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Many people do not regarding them as same level as two koreas. They are immigrants from Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 12:13, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
"your arguments are also making me quite uncomfortable because they seem to be rooted in discrimination towards discrimination, stereotypes, and prejudices."- now you are making me a racist? I hope i misunderstood it. But i can confirm that it is not discrimination towards discrimination, stereotypes, and prejudices User10281129 ( talk) 12:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Do not write in mandarin. There is their language and hanbok is not han Chinese's culture. User10281129 ( talk) 12:19, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
There is no third Korea. Korea was divided into two Koreas. User10281129 ( talk) 12:21, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Your opinion represents the argument of the Chinese Communist Party. ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/hanbok-beijing-winter-olympics-opening-sparks-south-korea-chinan-anger) User10281129 ( talk) 12:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
They could speak Mandarin. But their first language is Korean. And most of them live in South Korea( https://www.chosun.com/national/national_general/2022/01/20/RO4T7ATAPJG7FOI7VTMBCTTPGQ/). User10281129 ( talk) 12:30, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Every koreatowns in around the world are third Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 12:36, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Mandarin is han Chinese language. So it would be kinda weird if you write in mandarin. mandarin is not korean language. User10281129 ( talk) 12:45, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Does people seriously recognizing Yuanbian as third korea? Isnt it just nickname? (its not a question) User10281129 ( talk) 12:47, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
It is weird. Korean language isn't Chinese language. User10281129 ( talk) 12:49, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
1. Yuanbian is not separated territory from Korea. 2. Korean-Chinese are just immigrants like Korean-American. User10281129 ( talk) 12:51, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes. Thats called "nickname". User10281129 ( talk) 12:52, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Mandarin is not korean language. So if you wanted to explain hanbok as a part of Korean-Chinese's culture, then you shouldve use korean language, not mandarin. User10281129 ( talk) 12:57, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Two koreas are sovereign states. And both have legitimacy due to the division of Korea. But Yuanbian is not. Korean-Chinese are immigrants from North Korea and South Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 13:01, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Yanbian is not Korea. User10281129 ( talk) 13:05, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Yanbian is just small little town in China. Koreas are north Korea and South Korea. Its just common sense. User10281129 ( talk) 13:08, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
By who? Chinese communist party? According to Objective perspective, they are just immigrants. (Its not a question) User10281129 ( talk) 13:10, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
Korean-Chinese people wear same type of hanbok as South Koreans. They gets a lot of influence from South Korea. Furthermore, most of them live in South Korea. ( https://www.chosun.com/national/national_general/2022/01/20/RO4T7ATAPJG7FOI7VTMBCTTPGQ/). There is no difference between two Koreas hanbok and korean-Chinese's hanbok. User10281129 ( talk) 13:23, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
I've made an attempt to address some (imo) issues with the article. Will document hopefully non-obvious suggestions here.
IMO issues:
Suggestions:
I've given up for now, as I have other articles I've been meaning to work on. Encourage someone else to pick up the torch. toobigtokale ( talk) 23:14, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
https://asiasociety.org/korea/hanbok-part-1-origin-and-history https://kollectionk.com/guide-to-korean-traditional-clothing-hanbok
i plan on editing to add more about the modern uses of hanboks such as design or ceremonies and traditions people participate in. Pigeonidolization ( talk) 20:01, 15 December 2023 (UTC)