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Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 |
At a glance the images need some work, the layout could be improved. The images especially the gallery is repetitive and doesn't follow the image galleries guidance. I will leave it here for discussion, but I am gonna start chipping away at this.-- 0pen$0urce ( talk) 20:48, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
In Gaelic, the festival is called Oíche Shamhna ("the Night of Samhain"), Samhain being the month of November that follows immediately thereupon. Given the origins of the festival (as already discussed in the article), shouldn't we mention the Modern Irish name somewhere in the article itself. elvenscout742 ( talk) 02:20, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes it is Nov. 2, absolutely... See Mershman, Francis (1907). "All Souls' Day". Catholic Encyclopedia. 1. New York: Robert Appleton Company, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Souls%27_Day and http://www.binetti.ru/collectio/liturgia/missale_files/crg.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.27.22.101 ( talk) 07:36, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
" In other countries, during the ancient times" - unspecified ancient times in any country that you care to imagine? This sounds more like a storytelling mechanism than a fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.40.57.234 ( talk) 09:43, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the name Halloween having Christian origins but the origins of the festival are connected with the lunar calendar. Originally there were 10 months in the year... this was changed to 12 in order to make 2 extra months in celebration of the Roman Emperors and change from the lunar calendar to the solar calendar - hence we have July for Julius, and August for Augustus - and it also explains why Sept (7) is the ninth month, Oct (8) is the tenth, Nov (9), and Dec (10). So Halloween was the original new year's eve and the precise date used to change according to the lunar cycle... it is still celebrated by Hindus in the festival of Diwali - although they have different traditions surrounding that day they keep lanterns going throughout the night in order to clean the house of bad spirits. In Western traditions the lanterns were meant to ward off evil spirits for the coming of the new year, hence they added the gargoyle type features to the lantern.
Also turnips were carved as lanterns in the North East of England - keep in mind that for most of the North of Britain, a turnip is what the South and the supermarkets call a swede. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.23.29.25 ( talk) 12:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
The turnips represent skulls or severed heads on poles that were intended to deter the undead and/or other spirits in ancient Scotland. See 'The Faded Map' by Alistair Moffat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsp1488 ( talk • contribs) 02:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Should there be a differentiation in the Christian religious celebrations of Halloween (All Hallows Eve) since we can date to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrdom_of_Polycarp the Martyrdom of Polycarp in the 2nd century and the contemporary secular and neopagan adoption of Halloween? As well as Pope Gregory the VII's move of All Saints Day (and therefore All Hallows Eve) to November 1 in the 700s? Seems like these two facts show that All Hallows Eve developed independently and predated any Irish or pagan celebration since Samain can only be dated as early as the 10th century?
Diwali can be dated long before the 8th century AD and it represents the new year in most Hindu traditions. It includes keeping a lantern alight throughout the night to cleanse the household of evil spirits and the giving of sweets and fruit to children. It is based upon the lunar calendar and falls in late October/early November according to the lunar cycle. As most religions observe similar dates that are generally based around solar/lunar cycles connected with food... it is not unlikely that there is some sort of connection between Diwali and Halloween that predates Christian tradition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.23.63.208 ( talk) 00:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I think it would be hard to make the case that Hinduism and Christianity, let alone the pagan traditions of Northern Europe had any influence on each other when it comes to All Saints Day, Diwali, and Samain. Similarities between Diwali and Samain are lunar similarities and unrelated to the development of one another or the development of All Saints Day and All Hallows Eve. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.214.52.162 ( talk) 13:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
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Please change All Hallows' Even to All Hallows' Eve. 74.103.48.151 ( talk) 02:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
The text in a number of places (e.g. multiple times in paragraph three) refers to Halloween as a "holiday" but of course "holiday" means "holy day" and Halloween has never ever been a holy day. More of an anti-holy day. Also it is not a vacation day (which for some is the new meaning of "holiday") so again the word "holiday" does not fit. Could we change the text to refer to Halloween as a "festival" ? Mrdavenport ( talk) 15:12, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
This is nonsense. See WP:commonname. Of course it's a holiday. We go by what reliable sources call it, such as this one: [1]. OR is not acceptable.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 02:40, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
This is pretty ironic, considering that halloween takes its very name from hallowed/holiness. Both of which refer to an old English word for being whole, pure, perfect etc. Ninahexan ( talk) 23:11, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
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change the word holiday to celebration or festival.
71.130.197.16 ( talk) 06:26, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I assume that with the "Celtic Influences" the Pagan traditions are being presented, as the Christian influences are directly underneath. Why then is the devil - a Christian figure - mentioned? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.179.127.63 ( talk) 22:01, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
The way this is written anyone would think there's no link at all between these holidays. Even the section under Trick of Treat there's no refeerence to Guy Fawkes Night. The name guising came about because the kids asked for a 'penny for the Guy.' The Guy is Guy Fawkes. These nights have similar traditions because Guy Fawkes Night appropriated and developed many of the traditional aspects of the modern Halloween. Corrections and edits upcoming. Mdw0 ( talk) 07:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
"Halloween is celebrated as a religious festical by Wiccans who refer to it as Samhain."
This is important information but doesn't fit well in the lead. Do they merely "refer" to Halloween as Samhain? Or do they celebrate Samhain on the same day that others celebrate Halloween? Just because this source words it as the latter doesn't mean it's accurate or that it fits well with the lead. I recommend doing a little more research and potentially adding a "Wicca" section under "Religious influences." (Note that there should be reasons to include information here as opposed to in the Wicca section of the Samhain article.) Happy harvest, groupuscule ( talk) 22:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
There's obvious pathetic high school vandalism on this page and clue it reverted it... Can we do away with the autistic poem on the front page. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.27.242.194 ( talk) 04:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm starting this thread to discuss these edits: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Halloween&diff=575621599&oldid=575599220 The material about the practices of people living in Britain and Ireland, in the modern era, should not be included in the section which should discuss the influence of Samhain on Halloween. Samhain was recorded in the first century B.C.E. in the Gaulish Coligny Calendar and All Hallows has been celebrated since the seventh century C.E. It’s very confusing to list both ancient Celtic practices, along with modern practices of the descendents of the Celts on Halloween. This makes it seem that Celtic civilization and Christianity are mutually exclusive, which they are not. The practices that are in the latter part of that section are also Christian ones, since their practitioners no longer held the beliefs of the Druids, but became Christians. Mumming is actually a medieval practice that was not only performed on All Hallows’ Eve, but on Christmas Eve, Twelfth Night, Shrove Tuesday—Christian holidays. It does not make sense to put a Medieval practice alongside those from ancient times, especially when the ancient Celts never practised them. Most texts, including Hutton’s, do not present Halloween this way either, but first talk about influences from Samhain, and then All Hallows. In fact, the citations that are linked to the paragraphs that you added are from the section of his book titled “The Modern Halloween.” That’s why I refactored the material you added about guising in Ireland, Wales, etc. to the appropriate sections about modern practices “Trick-or-treating” and the content about turnips to the section on “Symbols”. These are modern practices and it makes more sense to discuss them there. Furthermore, we should not devote one large section to the modern practices of the descendants of the Celts, when there are a host of other groups that celebrate Halloween—that’s why there’s a “Halloween around the world” encyclopedia article. If you’d like, there’s a section about this topic on the main article and I won’t object if you move some of the material you added there—I am trying to be accomodating.
Let’s also talk about ‘Muck Olla’. Where did you find this? I looked through MacLeod’s book, in addition to pages 308-309 of the Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, Volume 2 and it’s not mentioned there once. On those pages, the journal is discussing Ancient Monuments of the New Ordance Maps and Kilbarron Church, nothing related to Samhain. The only practice in the second to last paragraph that is related to Samhain is that of Láir Bhán, which is mentioned in Sharon MacLeod’s book. That’s why I left it there. The paragraph on guising in Ireland, Scotland, Mann, and Wales is a colourful and interesting one—let’s move it to the section on trick-or-treating where it makes sense. I hope you see my point here. Obviously, I have not removed the material you added, but have refactored it—hopefully we can come up with something that we can both agree on. Maodhóg ( talk) 03:21, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
I agree — discussing Halloween practices in Britain and Ireland from the 1800s along with ancient Celtic practices from Samhain in one paragraph doesn’t make sense at all. That would make it seem as if the practices of the 1800s developed completely independent from the Christian influence in the British Isles (by that time, the ancient Celtic religion had long been dead and those regions were practicing Christianity). I think it would be better to add them in sections discussing the modern day practices of trick or treating and games and other activities. The ‘Celtic’ section should be dedicated to discussing possible influences from Samhain on Halloween. That being said, Samhain is a festival that historians know very little about. Most sources generally mention bonfires, the mixing of the worlds of the living and the dead, and animal sacrifice. These things should be included in the section, not ways that people from Britain and Ireland celebrated Halloween in the modern era. Happy Harvest! — Tylerjfrancke ( talk) 19:09, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
My original concern, as I mentioned above, resonates with your last sentence "That way we're not implying that the Celtic folk customs were altogether un-Christian." I strongly disagree with renaming the second section, because All Hallows' Eve was observed by the Church Universal, not just in England. Italy is mentioned in the paragraph and I also added a sentence each on France and Spain. I think that I've addressed the issue you speak of (and that I spoke of before) by making mention of Celtic Christianity and adding Jack Santino's comment in the first section. Celtic Christianity is unique in the sense that it developed apart from the influence of Christianity in continental Europe. That being said, it seems that the article is fine now. Maodhóg ( talk) 05:46, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
The opening paragraph states that Hallowe'en is a contraction of "All Hallows' Evening", and is sourced with a 19th century Scottish history by Thomas Thomson and Charles Annandale. The following quote is cited as the reasoning behind the contraction:
"Of the stated rustic festivals peculiar to Scotland the most important was Hallowe'en, a contraction for All-hallow Evening, or the evening of All-Saints Day, the annual return of which was a season for joy and festivity."
The problem is that I don't believe the source is correct. Per the Wikipedia article on All Saints' Day, that feast has been celebrated on November 1st since approximately the 8th century. As Hallowe'en takes place the evening prior, it is the eve of All Saints' Day, not the evening.
I believe the reference to this abbreviation is incorrect and should be removed. 74.215.188.148 ( talk) 21:04, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
I changed the paragraph title 'Gaelic and Welsh influence' to 'Goidelic and Brythonic influence'. Its more balanced less nationalistic as no one culture or people had a specific influence for the harvest festival over any other. Especially as the Brittonic use is found in Wales as Calan Gaeaf, in Cornwall Kalan Gwav and in Brittany as Kalan Goañv. It would be just as wrong to state 'Gaelic and Cornish influence' or 'Gaelic and Brittanys influences'. Goildelic also includes the Gaels of Mann, Scotland and Ireland. Uthican ( talk) 05:17, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
This is interesting, but I'll let you two discuss this. My thoughts are that the word 'Insular' would not be appropriate, especially because the culture and beliefs of Wales and Ireland were influenced by the arrival of Christianity in those regions, which in turn may have influenced the customs of Halloween. Maodhóg ( talk) 05:51, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
There are numerous problems that are occurring with Halloween costumes these days ranging from the fact that most are highly inappropriate for the age groups that they are geared towards, they are very genderized, not to mention the character they are supposed to me recreating is often misrepresented. Adie Nelson writes in, The Pink Dragon Is Female "the importance of participation in the paid-work world and financial success for men and of physical attractiveness and marriage for women is reinforced through costume names that reference masculine costumes by occupational roles or titles but describe feminine costumes via appearance and/or relationships..." Nelson continues the discussion about Halloween costumes by comparing female and male villains. For males their villainous costumes are often right on point, where as female villain costumes tend to be over sexualized and almost erotic. Halloween costumes these days are over sexualized and very gendered, even for the small children that should be having the most fun with this holiday.
Nelson, Adie. "The Pink Dragon Is Female." Psychology Of Women Quarterly 24.2 (2000): 137. Academic Search Complete. Web. 24 Oct. 2013.
--
Tarak7 (
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00:09, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Are there other places that celebrate Halloween on a date other than the 31st of October? I know that in Kilmarnock in the west of Scotland it's generally celebrated on the last Friday of October, apparently due to factory workers and miners being paid on a Friday, therefore having money to spend on sweets and treats that might otherwise have been spent by the time the 31st came. None of the surrounding towns seem to have adopted this variable date for Halloween, and I've never heard of anywhere else doing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.145.165 ( talk) 13:13, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
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Hi, i find out list of Google doodles about the topic Halloween. Any one could you please add this link into external link section?
http://www.getinfo.co.in/2013/10/halloween-doodles.html
Amenda1020 ( talk) 07:51, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Note: Links to getinfo.co.in have been spammed to this article (and others) multiple times now, and is being considered for blacklisting Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#JennyK07_and_getinfo.co.in -- Ronz ( talk) 17:21, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm unclear how one of the sub-title is "Christian influence" when the content clearly cites Catholicism. This would rather be said Catholic influence.
So much similarities it cant all be european influence in this modern day American Halloween style holiday sweeping the people's of the world. ChesterTheWorm ( talk) 19:29, 31 October 2013 (UTC) ChesterTheWorm
In Ireland,believed to be the birthplace of Halloween , the tradition is still — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.2.76.31 ( talk) 20:46, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
Starting section to discuss the changes by Bhlab. Edits are unsourced and user is edit warring. Hoping to initiate dialogue here. EvergreenFir ( talk) 20:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the spam that was here. Note that Wikipedia uses nofollow, and so adding links to your website here is useless for SEO. Skittle ( talk) 16:46, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
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there is a few small typos and grammar mistakes Hanniee.e ( talk) 02:59, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello, In the second paragraph the word "patato pancakes" in the string (apples, colcannon, cider, potato pancakes, and soul cakes) links to: /info/en/?search=Boxty When it should link to /info/en/?search=Potato_pancake I would have made the change but the page is not open enough for me to do it (today). thanks for helping out. bytheway042 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bytheway042 ( talk • contribs) 01:59, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
Take down the Walmart ad. 73.165.97.80 ( talk) 20:47, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm opening this thread and asking involved users to explain their edits. User:Bhlab has edit warred to introduce a revision of the article with the edit summary "Inaccurate claim maybe in the United States but not in Europe", violating WP:EW. Could he/she please explain what he/she is referring to? In addition, User:Randy Kryn has introduced a revision of the article with additions stating that Halloween has "it's [sic] original pagan name of [[Samhain]],". User:Randy Kryn has also directly lifted a sentence (without quotation marks) from the quote parameter of the reference Halloween: From Pagan Ritual to Party Night and has added that to the introduction, violating Wikipedia:Plagiarism. Could he/she please explain these edits? User:EvergreenFir, User:Jeff077, and User:Favonian have also contributed to these revisions and their comments would be welcome as well. I originally worked on this introduction a couple years ago and am going to revert to the stable version before the dispute, until these issues are addressed. Thank you, Anupam Talk 22:44, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Wiccans don’t officially celebrate Halloween, despite the fact that Oct. 31 will still have a star beside it in any good Wiccan’s day planner. Starting at sundown, Wiccans celebrate a holiday known as Samhain. Samhain actually comes from old Celtic traditions and is not exclusive to Neopagan religions like Wicca. While the traditions of this holiday originate in Celtic countries, modern day Wiccans don’t try to historically replicate Samhain celebrations. Some traditional Samhain rituals are still practised but at its core, the holiday is simply a time to celebrate darkness and the dead — a possible reason why Samhain is often confused with Halloween celebrations" ( Reference).
.... — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
188.238.96.7 (
talk)
13:47, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Greece doesn't celebrate the festival of Halloween, but it was created in Greek antiquity nonetheless.
While much of the Western world except Greece celebrates Halloween on Thursday October 31, the celebration actually is rooted in ancient Greek mythology. The Ancient Greeks believed that people who died went to the banks of the River Styx, the boundary between Earth and the Underworld. They would give the ferryman Charon a tip to transport them across the river to Hades so as to spend eternity.
If they lived a good life, they would reside in Elysium, a virtual paradise, and also be allowed to return to the world of the living for one day per year.
Christianity converted this myth by stating that the virtuous would become saints and their day with the living was set on November 1 for all saints day or the “hallowed ones” where they were honored with praise and prayer for evil spirits to leave them.
That is how All Hallow's Eve became Halloween. 121.222.48.84 ( talk) 04:22, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
The information in this article is inaccurate. All Hallows Eve or All Saints Eve is simply the day before Halloween. All Saints Day is recorded to be on November 1. The day before All Saints Day has nothing to do with Saints Day. It is a day someone made up to capitalize on the selling of candy and retail merchandise. Going back to a Webster's dictionary printed in 1964 Halloween is noted as a day where children dress up in costumes and go begging. it is also noted as "THE DAY BEFORE" All Saints Day. Halloween IS NOT, I repeat "IS NOT" a christian holiday or celebration of any sort. It is an abomination to Christ to celebrate dead spirits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.190.255.43 ( talk) 01:35, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
I agree with the above, for the most part. Unfortunately, this article is LOCKED and cannot be edited. Wikipedia should not allow this because so much information via Wikipedia is relied upon by far too many people in this day and age. This is egregious and outrageous that someone can put up an article without accountability and prevent others from updating or correcting it.
This article states that All Soul's Day is a Christian holiday and occurs on November 2nd of each year. All Soul's Day is NOT A CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY, BUT A CATHOLIC HOLIDAY SOLELY. All Soul's Day is a day for praying for the souls in "purgatory". Catholicism is the ONLY religion that believes in purgatory, and while Catholicism is considered a Christian religion, no only Christian religion believes in purgatory, as there is no mention of it in the Bible. Hence, All Soul's Day is a CATHOLIC holiday, not a Christian holiday. All Saint's Day on November 1, however, IS a Christian holiday, since other Christian religions DO recognize the remembrance of those who have departed this life on this day. [1] and [2]
It is outrageous that this article cannot be corrected and is allowed to disseminate incorrect and inaccurate information to the world wide community. this is NOT in the spirit of true wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kentuckywoman2 ( talk • contribs) 00:22, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 |
At a glance the images need some work, the layout could be improved. The images especially the gallery is repetitive and doesn't follow the image galleries guidance. I will leave it here for discussion, but I am gonna start chipping away at this.-- 0pen$0urce ( talk) 20:48, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
In Gaelic, the festival is called Oíche Shamhna ("the Night of Samhain"), Samhain being the month of November that follows immediately thereupon. Given the origins of the festival (as already discussed in the article), shouldn't we mention the Modern Irish name somewhere in the article itself. elvenscout742 ( talk) 02:20, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes it is Nov. 2, absolutely... See Mershman, Francis (1907). "All Souls' Day". Catholic Encyclopedia. 1. New York: Robert Appleton Company, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Souls%27_Day and http://www.binetti.ru/collectio/liturgia/missale_files/crg.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.27.22.101 ( talk) 07:36, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
" In other countries, during the ancient times" - unspecified ancient times in any country that you care to imagine? This sounds more like a storytelling mechanism than a fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.40.57.234 ( talk) 09:43, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the name Halloween having Christian origins but the origins of the festival are connected with the lunar calendar. Originally there were 10 months in the year... this was changed to 12 in order to make 2 extra months in celebration of the Roman Emperors and change from the lunar calendar to the solar calendar - hence we have July for Julius, and August for Augustus - and it also explains why Sept (7) is the ninth month, Oct (8) is the tenth, Nov (9), and Dec (10). So Halloween was the original new year's eve and the precise date used to change according to the lunar cycle... it is still celebrated by Hindus in the festival of Diwali - although they have different traditions surrounding that day they keep lanterns going throughout the night in order to clean the house of bad spirits. In Western traditions the lanterns were meant to ward off evil spirits for the coming of the new year, hence they added the gargoyle type features to the lantern.
Also turnips were carved as lanterns in the North East of England - keep in mind that for most of the North of Britain, a turnip is what the South and the supermarkets call a swede. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.23.29.25 ( talk) 12:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
The turnips represent skulls or severed heads on poles that were intended to deter the undead and/or other spirits in ancient Scotland. See 'The Faded Map' by Alistair Moffat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsp1488 ( talk • contribs) 02:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Should there be a differentiation in the Christian religious celebrations of Halloween (All Hallows Eve) since we can date to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrdom_of_Polycarp the Martyrdom of Polycarp in the 2nd century and the contemporary secular and neopagan adoption of Halloween? As well as Pope Gregory the VII's move of All Saints Day (and therefore All Hallows Eve) to November 1 in the 700s? Seems like these two facts show that All Hallows Eve developed independently and predated any Irish or pagan celebration since Samain can only be dated as early as the 10th century?
Diwali can be dated long before the 8th century AD and it represents the new year in most Hindu traditions. It includes keeping a lantern alight throughout the night to cleanse the household of evil spirits and the giving of sweets and fruit to children. It is based upon the lunar calendar and falls in late October/early November according to the lunar cycle. As most religions observe similar dates that are generally based around solar/lunar cycles connected with food... it is not unlikely that there is some sort of connection between Diwali and Halloween that predates Christian tradition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.23.63.208 ( talk) 00:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I think it would be hard to make the case that Hinduism and Christianity, let alone the pagan traditions of Northern Europe had any influence on each other when it comes to All Saints Day, Diwali, and Samain. Similarities between Diwali and Samain are lunar similarities and unrelated to the development of one another or the development of All Saints Day and All Hallows Eve. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.214.52.162 ( talk) 13:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
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Please change All Hallows' Even to All Hallows' Eve. 74.103.48.151 ( talk) 02:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
The text in a number of places (e.g. multiple times in paragraph three) refers to Halloween as a "holiday" but of course "holiday" means "holy day" and Halloween has never ever been a holy day. More of an anti-holy day. Also it is not a vacation day (which for some is the new meaning of "holiday") so again the word "holiday" does not fit. Could we change the text to refer to Halloween as a "festival" ? Mrdavenport ( talk) 15:12, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
This is nonsense. See WP:commonname. Of course it's a holiday. We go by what reliable sources call it, such as this one: [1]. OR is not acceptable.-- FutureTrillionaire ( talk) 02:40, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
This is pretty ironic, considering that halloween takes its very name from hallowed/holiness. Both of which refer to an old English word for being whole, pure, perfect etc. Ninahexan ( talk) 23:11, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
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change the word holiday to celebration or festival.
71.130.197.16 ( talk) 06:26, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I assume that with the "Celtic Influences" the Pagan traditions are being presented, as the Christian influences are directly underneath. Why then is the devil - a Christian figure - mentioned? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.179.127.63 ( talk) 22:01, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
The way this is written anyone would think there's no link at all between these holidays. Even the section under Trick of Treat there's no refeerence to Guy Fawkes Night. The name guising came about because the kids asked for a 'penny for the Guy.' The Guy is Guy Fawkes. These nights have similar traditions because Guy Fawkes Night appropriated and developed many of the traditional aspects of the modern Halloween. Corrections and edits upcoming. Mdw0 ( talk) 07:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
"Halloween is celebrated as a religious festical by Wiccans who refer to it as Samhain."
This is important information but doesn't fit well in the lead. Do they merely "refer" to Halloween as Samhain? Or do they celebrate Samhain on the same day that others celebrate Halloween? Just because this source words it as the latter doesn't mean it's accurate or that it fits well with the lead. I recommend doing a little more research and potentially adding a "Wicca" section under "Religious influences." (Note that there should be reasons to include information here as opposed to in the Wicca section of the Samhain article.) Happy harvest, groupuscule ( talk) 22:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
There's obvious pathetic high school vandalism on this page and clue it reverted it... Can we do away with the autistic poem on the front page. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.27.242.194 ( talk) 04:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm starting this thread to discuss these edits: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Halloween&diff=575621599&oldid=575599220 The material about the practices of people living in Britain and Ireland, in the modern era, should not be included in the section which should discuss the influence of Samhain on Halloween. Samhain was recorded in the first century B.C.E. in the Gaulish Coligny Calendar and All Hallows has been celebrated since the seventh century C.E. It’s very confusing to list both ancient Celtic practices, along with modern practices of the descendents of the Celts on Halloween. This makes it seem that Celtic civilization and Christianity are mutually exclusive, which they are not. The practices that are in the latter part of that section are also Christian ones, since their practitioners no longer held the beliefs of the Druids, but became Christians. Mumming is actually a medieval practice that was not only performed on All Hallows’ Eve, but on Christmas Eve, Twelfth Night, Shrove Tuesday—Christian holidays. It does not make sense to put a Medieval practice alongside those from ancient times, especially when the ancient Celts never practised them. Most texts, including Hutton’s, do not present Halloween this way either, but first talk about influences from Samhain, and then All Hallows. In fact, the citations that are linked to the paragraphs that you added are from the section of his book titled “The Modern Halloween.” That’s why I refactored the material you added about guising in Ireland, Wales, etc. to the appropriate sections about modern practices “Trick-or-treating” and the content about turnips to the section on “Symbols”. These are modern practices and it makes more sense to discuss them there. Furthermore, we should not devote one large section to the modern practices of the descendants of the Celts, when there are a host of other groups that celebrate Halloween—that’s why there’s a “Halloween around the world” encyclopedia article. If you’d like, there’s a section about this topic on the main article and I won’t object if you move some of the material you added there—I am trying to be accomodating.
Let’s also talk about ‘Muck Olla’. Where did you find this? I looked through MacLeod’s book, in addition to pages 308-309 of the Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, Volume 2 and it’s not mentioned there once. On those pages, the journal is discussing Ancient Monuments of the New Ordance Maps and Kilbarron Church, nothing related to Samhain. The only practice in the second to last paragraph that is related to Samhain is that of Láir Bhán, which is mentioned in Sharon MacLeod’s book. That’s why I left it there. The paragraph on guising in Ireland, Scotland, Mann, and Wales is a colourful and interesting one—let’s move it to the section on trick-or-treating where it makes sense. I hope you see my point here. Obviously, I have not removed the material you added, but have refactored it—hopefully we can come up with something that we can both agree on. Maodhóg ( talk) 03:21, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
I agree — discussing Halloween practices in Britain and Ireland from the 1800s along with ancient Celtic practices from Samhain in one paragraph doesn’t make sense at all. That would make it seem as if the practices of the 1800s developed completely independent from the Christian influence in the British Isles (by that time, the ancient Celtic religion had long been dead and those regions were practicing Christianity). I think it would be better to add them in sections discussing the modern day practices of trick or treating and games and other activities. The ‘Celtic’ section should be dedicated to discussing possible influences from Samhain on Halloween. That being said, Samhain is a festival that historians know very little about. Most sources generally mention bonfires, the mixing of the worlds of the living and the dead, and animal sacrifice. These things should be included in the section, not ways that people from Britain and Ireland celebrated Halloween in the modern era. Happy Harvest! — Tylerjfrancke ( talk) 19:09, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
My original concern, as I mentioned above, resonates with your last sentence "That way we're not implying that the Celtic folk customs were altogether un-Christian." I strongly disagree with renaming the second section, because All Hallows' Eve was observed by the Church Universal, not just in England. Italy is mentioned in the paragraph and I also added a sentence each on France and Spain. I think that I've addressed the issue you speak of (and that I spoke of before) by making mention of Celtic Christianity and adding Jack Santino's comment in the first section. Celtic Christianity is unique in the sense that it developed apart from the influence of Christianity in continental Europe. That being said, it seems that the article is fine now. Maodhóg ( talk) 05:46, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
The opening paragraph states that Hallowe'en is a contraction of "All Hallows' Evening", and is sourced with a 19th century Scottish history by Thomas Thomson and Charles Annandale. The following quote is cited as the reasoning behind the contraction:
"Of the stated rustic festivals peculiar to Scotland the most important was Hallowe'en, a contraction for All-hallow Evening, or the evening of All-Saints Day, the annual return of which was a season for joy and festivity."
The problem is that I don't believe the source is correct. Per the Wikipedia article on All Saints' Day, that feast has been celebrated on November 1st since approximately the 8th century. As Hallowe'en takes place the evening prior, it is the eve of All Saints' Day, not the evening.
I believe the reference to this abbreviation is incorrect and should be removed. 74.215.188.148 ( talk) 21:04, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
I changed the paragraph title 'Gaelic and Welsh influence' to 'Goidelic and Brythonic influence'. Its more balanced less nationalistic as no one culture or people had a specific influence for the harvest festival over any other. Especially as the Brittonic use is found in Wales as Calan Gaeaf, in Cornwall Kalan Gwav and in Brittany as Kalan Goañv. It would be just as wrong to state 'Gaelic and Cornish influence' or 'Gaelic and Brittanys influences'. Goildelic also includes the Gaels of Mann, Scotland and Ireland. Uthican ( talk) 05:17, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
This is interesting, but I'll let you two discuss this. My thoughts are that the word 'Insular' would not be appropriate, especially because the culture and beliefs of Wales and Ireland were influenced by the arrival of Christianity in those regions, which in turn may have influenced the customs of Halloween. Maodhóg ( talk) 05:51, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
There are numerous problems that are occurring with Halloween costumes these days ranging from the fact that most are highly inappropriate for the age groups that they are geared towards, they are very genderized, not to mention the character they are supposed to me recreating is often misrepresented. Adie Nelson writes in, The Pink Dragon Is Female "the importance of participation in the paid-work world and financial success for men and of physical attractiveness and marriage for women is reinforced through costume names that reference masculine costumes by occupational roles or titles but describe feminine costumes via appearance and/or relationships..." Nelson continues the discussion about Halloween costumes by comparing female and male villains. For males their villainous costumes are often right on point, where as female villain costumes tend to be over sexualized and almost erotic. Halloween costumes these days are over sexualized and very gendered, even for the small children that should be having the most fun with this holiday.
Nelson, Adie. "The Pink Dragon Is Female." Psychology Of Women Quarterly 24.2 (2000): 137. Academic Search Complete. Web. 24 Oct. 2013.
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Tarak7 (
talk)
00:09, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Are there other places that celebrate Halloween on a date other than the 31st of October? I know that in Kilmarnock in the west of Scotland it's generally celebrated on the last Friday of October, apparently due to factory workers and miners being paid on a Friday, therefore having money to spend on sweets and treats that might otherwise have been spent by the time the 31st came. None of the surrounding towns seem to have adopted this variable date for Halloween, and I've never heard of anywhere else doing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.145.165 ( talk) 13:13, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
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Hi, i find out list of Google doodles about the topic Halloween. Any one could you please add this link into external link section?
http://www.getinfo.co.in/2013/10/halloween-doodles.html
Amenda1020 ( talk) 07:51, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Note: Links to getinfo.co.in have been spammed to this article (and others) multiple times now, and is being considered for blacklisting Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#JennyK07_and_getinfo.co.in -- Ronz ( talk) 17:21, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm unclear how one of the sub-title is "Christian influence" when the content clearly cites Catholicism. This would rather be said Catholic influence.
So much similarities it cant all be european influence in this modern day American Halloween style holiday sweeping the people's of the world. ChesterTheWorm ( talk) 19:29, 31 October 2013 (UTC) ChesterTheWorm
In Ireland,believed to be the birthplace of Halloween , the tradition is still — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.2.76.31 ( talk) 20:46, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
Starting section to discuss the changes by Bhlab. Edits are unsourced and user is edit warring. Hoping to initiate dialogue here. EvergreenFir ( talk) 20:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the spam that was here. Note that Wikipedia uses nofollow, and so adding links to your website here is useless for SEO. Skittle ( talk) 16:46, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
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there is a few small typos and grammar mistakes Hanniee.e ( talk) 02:59, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello, In the second paragraph the word "patato pancakes" in the string (apples, colcannon, cider, potato pancakes, and soul cakes) links to: /info/en/?search=Boxty When it should link to /info/en/?search=Potato_pancake I would have made the change but the page is not open enough for me to do it (today). thanks for helping out. bytheway042 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bytheway042 ( talk • contribs) 01:59, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
Take down the Walmart ad. 73.165.97.80 ( talk) 20:47, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm opening this thread and asking involved users to explain their edits. User:Bhlab has edit warred to introduce a revision of the article with the edit summary "Inaccurate claim maybe in the United States but not in Europe", violating WP:EW. Could he/she please explain what he/she is referring to? In addition, User:Randy Kryn has introduced a revision of the article with additions stating that Halloween has "it's [sic] original pagan name of [[Samhain]],". User:Randy Kryn has also directly lifted a sentence (without quotation marks) from the quote parameter of the reference Halloween: From Pagan Ritual to Party Night and has added that to the introduction, violating Wikipedia:Plagiarism. Could he/she please explain these edits? User:EvergreenFir, User:Jeff077, and User:Favonian have also contributed to these revisions and their comments would be welcome as well. I originally worked on this introduction a couple years ago and am going to revert to the stable version before the dispute, until these issues are addressed. Thank you, Anupam Talk 22:44, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Wiccans don’t officially celebrate Halloween, despite the fact that Oct. 31 will still have a star beside it in any good Wiccan’s day planner. Starting at sundown, Wiccans celebrate a holiday known as Samhain. Samhain actually comes from old Celtic traditions and is not exclusive to Neopagan religions like Wicca. While the traditions of this holiday originate in Celtic countries, modern day Wiccans don’t try to historically replicate Samhain celebrations. Some traditional Samhain rituals are still practised but at its core, the holiday is simply a time to celebrate darkness and the dead — a possible reason why Samhain is often confused with Halloween celebrations" ( Reference).
.... — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
188.238.96.7 (
talk)
13:47, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Greece doesn't celebrate the festival of Halloween, but it was created in Greek antiquity nonetheless.
While much of the Western world except Greece celebrates Halloween on Thursday October 31, the celebration actually is rooted in ancient Greek mythology. The Ancient Greeks believed that people who died went to the banks of the River Styx, the boundary between Earth and the Underworld. They would give the ferryman Charon a tip to transport them across the river to Hades so as to spend eternity.
If they lived a good life, they would reside in Elysium, a virtual paradise, and also be allowed to return to the world of the living for one day per year.
Christianity converted this myth by stating that the virtuous would become saints and their day with the living was set on November 1 for all saints day or the “hallowed ones” where they were honored with praise and prayer for evil spirits to leave them.
That is how All Hallow's Eve became Halloween. 121.222.48.84 ( talk) 04:22, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
The information in this article is inaccurate. All Hallows Eve or All Saints Eve is simply the day before Halloween. All Saints Day is recorded to be on November 1. The day before All Saints Day has nothing to do with Saints Day. It is a day someone made up to capitalize on the selling of candy and retail merchandise. Going back to a Webster's dictionary printed in 1964 Halloween is noted as a day where children dress up in costumes and go begging. it is also noted as "THE DAY BEFORE" All Saints Day. Halloween IS NOT, I repeat "IS NOT" a christian holiday or celebration of any sort. It is an abomination to Christ to celebrate dead spirits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.190.255.43 ( talk) 01:35, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
I agree with the above, for the most part. Unfortunately, this article is LOCKED and cannot be edited. Wikipedia should not allow this because so much information via Wikipedia is relied upon by far too many people in this day and age. This is egregious and outrageous that someone can put up an article without accountability and prevent others from updating or correcting it.
This article states that All Soul's Day is a Christian holiday and occurs on November 2nd of each year. All Soul's Day is NOT A CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY, BUT A CATHOLIC HOLIDAY SOLELY. All Soul's Day is a day for praying for the souls in "purgatory". Catholicism is the ONLY religion that believes in purgatory, and while Catholicism is considered a Christian religion, no only Christian religion believes in purgatory, as there is no mention of it in the Bible. Hence, All Soul's Day is a CATHOLIC holiday, not a Christian holiday. All Saint's Day on November 1, however, IS a Christian holiday, since other Christian religions DO recognize the remembrance of those who have departed this life on this day. [1] and [2]
It is outrageous that this article cannot be corrected and is allowed to disseminate incorrect and inaccurate information to the world wide community. this is NOT in the spirit of true wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kentuckywoman2 ( talk • contribs) 00:22, 23 October 2014 (UTC)