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Dear Wikipedian King and collector of Platinum Barnstars
I did not know that the description bar for edits is supposed to make polemic comments, but it seems that I should try that, too, if I want to follow your good example...
Unfortunately it is the encyclopaedic business not to avoid, but to explain terms by different articles. This is what I already mentioned, when I commented on the few related articles which are often quite comprehensive, but they tell so little about the subject, that you should not expect that I will be the one to explain them all in one article, or to write and to improve for you 50 of them. So far about the "great work, as usual"!
But if you expect, that many authors will do the job in a kind of teamwork, I recommend to mind your tongue. So if there is an "incomprehensible" article, don't worry and be happy to explain those cryptic terms by another article. I assure you, I tried hard to use no one which should be avoided.
For more specific hints I will be grateful. Platonykiss ( talk) 13:52, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarify tag. I reworked the whole section. It did not become incomprehensible because of the splitting, but because of other edits during which I added more and more information in the same place. Please re-read it and tell me, whether it has become better or not.
The general problem – for everybody who works in this field – is, that we have very few theoretical sources concerned about Byzantine chant (they were strictly separated from the mathematical science harmonikai) and they only survived in copies which have been made centuries later. According to my knowledge there is no article and no book which offers a clear chronology. Peter Jeffery's article "The Earliest Oktoechoi" is probably the most informative one, but far from easy readable. It is a lot of work to puzzle a new chronology based on the most recent research. Here you have the fruit of my efforts without any original research. Platonykiss ( talk) 11:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I am sorry. I see your good intention inserting these links, but despite that it is not very elegant to put links within quotations, the articles about mixolydian and diapason (interval) are too weak and misleading. The difference between the Latin and the Greek interpretation of the mixolydian trope is, that the Greek one uses the large seventh, but the Latin the small one, as I explain in the next paragraph, while the article Talk:Diapason (interval) describes the so-called "Pythagorean" intervals. In fact the latter are rather " Eratosthenian" (according to Ptolemy's reference to historical tetrachord divisions), because we do not know how Pythagoras divided the tetrachord.
As long as these articles are not universal enough to explain the difference between the Western and the Eastern interpretation which is different from the Ancient Greek science of the tropes, it will confuse the readers even more. In any case I left the link to the article "octave species", because it is in rectangular brackets. Please note, that here we are talking about the medieval interpretation of tropes as church tones, in Ancient Greek theory there was no connection with melodic concepts in the sense of a musical mode. Nevertheless, I have no objections concerning the way, how this difference has been described in the latter article. Platonykiss ( talk) 11:35, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
I apologise for using many technical terms here, but I am convinced, they should be all here, because it would not help to replace them. Another user has even translated the whole article into Greek. I also thank very much those who harmonized their articles of the English wikipedia with this one. This is, how I imagine teamwork in this portal. Hence, I removed the technical term tag in order to continue with Papadic Octoechos. I thank everybody who read, changed, and commented on this and related articles. Maybe in a later version it will be shorter and more balanced between plenty other articles which are missing right now. Platonykiss ( talk) 17:37, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
Coptic music and liturgy does not have eight modes. It should be clear Coptic liturgy has no eight weeks cycle. No reference shows coptic music is using eight modes of any name. If there are modes they are related to composition as for any culture. Unless a source is provided for the latter, it will be removed from text. Cheers.-- Connection ( talk) 12:53, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
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The introduction needs to introduce the term "Hagiopolitan." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tedcampbell ( talk • contribs) 16:19, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
This is the
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Hagiopolitan Octoechos article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Dear Wikipedian King and collector of Platinum Barnstars
I did not know that the description bar for edits is supposed to make polemic comments, but it seems that I should try that, too, if I want to follow your good example...
Unfortunately it is the encyclopaedic business not to avoid, but to explain terms by different articles. This is what I already mentioned, when I commented on the few related articles which are often quite comprehensive, but they tell so little about the subject, that you should not expect that I will be the one to explain them all in one article, or to write and to improve for you 50 of them. So far about the "great work, as usual"!
But if you expect, that many authors will do the job in a kind of teamwork, I recommend to mind your tongue. So if there is an "incomprehensible" article, don't worry and be happy to explain those cryptic terms by another article. I assure you, I tried hard to use no one which should be avoided.
For more specific hints I will be grateful. Platonykiss ( talk) 13:52, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarify tag. I reworked the whole section. It did not become incomprehensible because of the splitting, but because of other edits during which I added more and more information in the same place. Please re-read it and tell me, whether it has become better or not.
The general problem – for everybody who works in this field – is, that we have very few theoretical sources concerned about Byzantine chant (they were strictly separated from the mathematical science harmonikai) and they only survived in copies which have been made centuries later. According to my knowledge there is no article and no book which offers a clear chronology. Peter Jeffery's article "The Earliest Oktoechoi" is probably the most informative one, but far from easy readable. It is a lot of work to puzzle a new chronology based on the most recent research. Here you have the fruit of my efforts without any original research. Platonykiss ( talk) 11:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I am sorry. I see your good intention inserting these links, but despite that it is not very elegant to put links within quotations, the articles about mixolydian and diapason (interval) are too weak and misleading. The difference between the Latin and the Greek interpretation of the mixolydian trope is, that the Greek one uses the large seventh, but the Latin the small one, as I explain in the next paragraph, while the article Talk:Diapason (interval) describes the so-called "Pythagorean" intervals. In fact the latter are rather " Eratosthenian" (according to Ptolemy's reference to historical tetrachord divisions), because we do not know how Pythagoras divided the tetrachord.
As long as these articles are not universal enough to explain the difference between the Western and the Eastern interpretation which is different from the Ancient Greek science of the tropes, it will confuse the readers even more. In any case I left the link to the article "octave species", because it is in rectangular brackets. Please note, that here we are talking about the medieval interpretation of tropes as church tones, in Ancient Greek theory there was no connection with melodic concepts in the sense of a musical mode. Nevertheless, I have no objections concerning the way, how this difference has been described in the latter article. Platonykiss ( talk) 11:35, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
I apologise for using many technical terms here, but I am convinced, they should be all here, because it would not help to replace them. Another user has even translated the whole article into Greek. I also thank very much those who harmonized their articles of the English wikipedia with this one. This is, how I imagine teamwork in this portal. Hence, I removed the technical term tag in order to continue with Papadic Octoechos. I thank everybody who read, changed, and commented on this and related articles. Maybe in a later version it will be shorter and more balanced between plenty other articles which are missing right now. Platonykiss ( talk) 17:37, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
Coptic music and liturgy does not have eight modes. It should be clear Coptic liturgy has no eight weeks cycle. No reference shows coptic music is using eight modes of any name. If there are modes they are related to composition as for any culture. Unless a source is provided for the latter, it will be removed from text. Cheers.-- Connection ( talk) 12:53, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Hagiopolitan Octoechos. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.mzh.mrezha.ru/lib/froyshov/fhv2007a.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:36, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
The introduction needs to introduce the term "Hagiopolitan." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tedcampbell ( talk • contribs) 16:19, 10 December 2018 (UTC)