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Blood transfer? Or do I even want to know?
-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.7 ( talk • contribs).
I would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on this issue. Is it true that AIDS or HIV spreads more easily among homosexual men than homosexual women? If so, why is that? 213.115.62.100 08:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I just read in the Week that circumsicion helps prevent AIDS, is this true? I so, should it be added? 70.226.157.30 03:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)Wiki neophyte and poor speller
The article talks about transmission through mucus membranes. I thought there was some evidence that there was transmission through dendritic cells, even without the presence of mucus. Is this correct?
Also, I wonder about sweat during sex. I have heard that sweat contains the virus. If one has sores on one's skin and if one is in prolonged sweaty contact with the skin of another, even if there is no contact through mucus membranes or dendritic cells, couldn't there be transmission?
Also, why isn't there more discussion here of whether sex is really voluntary behavior? It seems to me that for many people having sex is no more voluntary behavior than eating. It might be possible to stop it for a while, but not forever. It seems to me that asking sexually active people to protect each other from infection is like asking the fox to guard the hen house.
does anyone else think that AIDS isnt transmited throuch pregnancy. the blood dosent mix in the placenta and no cells cross the barrier. the only transmision from mother to child is in child birth, breast feeding or sharing needles etc.
could someone please edit this as it is really bugging me.
thanks
AIDS has been proven to transfer from mother to child. Case closed.
I am naive in the various AIDS debates, though I have known some victims of the disease. However, having just watched the famous 2004 CBC documentary on Edward Hooper theories, the OPV AIDS hypothesis I found it very convincing and disturbing. I came to wikipedia for some reassurance and background, however, I was very dissappointed in the relevant party of this main AIDS article. The origins section and alternatives are very shallow. They do not even link to other wikipedia articles treating the subject in more depth. Alternative_theories_about_the_origin_of_AIDS, Category:AIDS_origin_hypotheses, AIDS_reappraisal, OPV_AIDS_hypothesis should at least be mentioned. I find this section really takes a side in the debate and departs from NPOV.
Perticularly the quote: "Subsequently, this hypothesis has been refuted by examination of these original polio vaccine stocks and establishing that they do not contain material of chimpanzee origin.[114]" is out of context, it should be on the OPV page where it can be disputed or verified. There is dispute of this finding, the most obvious being the logical impossibility of finding a sample to test that was also used.
Anyway, I don't have the background to authoritatively change this, my reference is a TV show, albeit a good one. So I'm going to simply link these other wikipedia articles - even on a functional argument basis, the main AIDS trunk should lead to these branches. I'm not going to delete the offending quotation, because maybe it should be restated or by someone with a good reference to cite. 154.20.109.121 06:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
What is the person has received a BJ with a Condom on? Can he still get AIDS? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]).
What is the person has received a Hand Job without a condom. Can he still get AIDS or HIV infection? Please let me know ASAP.
Hi, I think I saw a documentary on AIDS (maybe frontline?) that claimed that the dominant theory of AIDS transfer to humans was through consumption of primate meat. Can anyone confirm this? Can someone add the primate consumption theory to the article. I think I saw it on Frontline or another cable documetary. -- Gogosean 01:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Ew, who would eat PRIMATE meat? Just asking, but is it a delicacy some where?
The death toll every single day in Congo is somewhere between the death tolls of Hurricane Katrina and the September 11, 2001 attacks This would be 2752x365=1,085,145 a year, maybe the figure for whole africa
and the weekly death toll is about the same as the death toll of the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake that makes 186,983x52=9,723,116 a year, an absolutely ridiculous figure even considering only the number of the dead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.101.126.212 ( talk • contribs).
The number of AIDS deaths in sub-Saharan Africa is around two million per year, as correctly stated in the AIDS in Africa article. AIDS deaths in the Democratic Republic of the Congo amount to around 90,000 per year. I've no idea what 62.101.126.212 is referring to. Trezatium 19:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi.
I really like this article, it's great. I read not even half of it but I came across two parts of the text that I would like to comment on:
-- bb 21:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
This article has been severely vandalized, and I'm not sure how to revert it. On the history page, it shows that the current page should be a correct one, but it isn't. Could someone fix it?
from the main page: "in fact TCM have been proven to be able to cure AIDS totally."
Surely statements like this should have a source - or else isn't it weasel words or something?
As with most dominant discussions of HIV/AIDS, very little is said on this page about the socio-cultural and economic causes of the spread of HIV (that is, that it spreads primarily due to poverty and the low social status of women). Discussing the HIV/AIDS pandemic as though it is sheerly a health issue delimits the range of solutions to those focusing on health (and therefore driven by the "Northern" or developed health and research system. Poor people in Africa are creating great solutions (many based around home-based care and the empowerment of women) to HIV/AIDS at the community level, but it is very difficult for them to access funding for them.
I'm hoping to write a short section on these issues when I have a little time in the coming weeks. If anyone has a suggestion about where on the page it might go, please suggest away.
Thanks Shannonbah 02:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
That is aleady covered elsewhere in the article -- Bob 23:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
The following edit deleted a sentence about vitamin C; I reverted and restored the sentence. The deleting edit was: " 06:00, 6 December 2006 Grcampbell (Talk | contribs) (we don't need to add every alternative medicine that has been tested. We don't even list every type of ART used! Revert reversion.)"
I agree that we don't need to add every alternative medicine that has been tested. If, however, someone wishes to do so, I see no harm in it; if it takes up too much space it can be moved to a separate page. Ideally, information about the results of the tests would also be provided. Similarly for conventional treatments.
However, that explanation does not justify deleting the sentence about vitamin C, since this sentence was very far from listing the large number of alternative treatments that have no doubt been tried. The sentence was giving one example of an alternative treatment (very high doses of vitamin C) -- one which has been found in preliminary clinical trials to suppress the symptoms of AIDS and markedly reduce the tendency for secondary infections. Any treatment which does this deserves mention, in my opinion.
The section on alternative treatments is already much shorter than the section on conventional treatments and is at the end of a section and without a separate heading, where it is likely to attract less attention. Rather than shortening the alternative treatments section, a more balanced article could be achieved by lengthening the alternative treatments section and placing it where it is more likely to be seen (with a separate heading, or a topic sentence menioning it at the beginning of the treatment section, for example). -- Coppertwig 13:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Vitamin and mineral statements have been included above the alternative treatment section in a manner that is more than adequate for the amount of research and data that has been put forward about these. there is also a reference to a review article should anyone want more info on this topic. This should close any further debate on the issue. As the vitamin section is no longer within the scope of alternative treatment, the mills article should stand. Also, as the statement regarding the Mills article states that they do not have any effect in treating HIV and AIDS, which is still true, then that statement should also stand. Quality of life and treatment of HIV are two different things. -- Bob 03:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
If no one objects, I'll create another heading on this talk page "Proposed creation of page 'Treatment of HIV/AIDS'", and also put a note on the HIV page directing people to discuss the proposal to create such a page here. -- Coppertwig 23:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Here is a suggested edit which I hope may solve both the dispute about the deletion of the vitamin C sentence and the dispute about the proposed deletion/modification of the sentence currently attached to the Mills footnote.
The suggestion:
Begin a new paragraph just before "Daily multivitamin supplements...", i.e. split the last two sentences off the second-last paragraph of the Treatment section. Combine these with the following paragraph and rewrite that paragraph so that the last paragraph of the Treatment section will read as follows:
Daily multivitamin supplements have been found to reduce HIV disease progression among men and women. This could become an important low-cost intervention provided during early HIV disease to prolong the time before antiretroviral therapy is required. [1] Various forms of alternative medicine have also been used to treat symptoms or alter the course of the disease. [2] Examples of alternative medicine that people have used in an effort to improve their symptoms, disease progression or quality of life include massage, stress management, acupuncture; [2], boxwood [3], and bowel-tolerance-dose vitamin C [4] [5]. [6] When used with conventional treatment, many now refer to these as "complementary" approaches. There is a concerning shortage of studies to establish the effectiveness of complementary and alternative treatments for HIV/AIDS. [7]
Reasons in support of this suggestion:
If anyone objects to anything about this proposed edit, please discuss it here, and please propose alternative edits which address the above concerns, which satsify the list of criteria (which I proposed earlier and which no one has objected to), and which you believe are likely to be accepted by all involved. -- Coppertwig 16:06, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Too many weasel words, is vague, and gives a false air that these are effective treatments. Why mention just five? Why not more, why not less? Why bother listing at all? Give references from this decade please, a study in 1984 is hardly reliable as a guideline for today. Also, it presents suspect results that are, as yet, unvalidated by other studies carried out by other people/cohorts. Why the absolute requirement to mention vit C? I really don't understand the obsession with vit C. Other vitamins have shown better results in better studies. Humans are not other animals. Your reasons are speculative at best. The current version gives an historic basis for the terminology used, your version ignores this completely. The current version states clearly that quack approaches have become less common, your version ignores this. Current version is factual and researched and gives more information than yours. Perhaps integrate some of the forms of quack medicine that you have listed, but the rest, no. It is too focused on unresearched orthomolecular medicine. -- Bob 03:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Hickey's books states that cases of full-blown AIDS have gone into remission with large doses of vitamin C. You say that other vitamins have produced even better results; I'd like to read more about that -- could you tell me where to find information on it?
As I suggested above, please suggest an alternative version of the paragraph that you think satisfies the objections I raise to the current one. -- Coppertwig
The evidence suggests that vitamin C, in amounts comparable to the amounts produced by mammals when they are sick, i.e. bowel-tolerance levels or tens of grams, is likely a very effective treatment for AIDS. Results do not become less valid with the mere passage of time, but only when other experiments add more information. If you know of more recent experiments with bowel-tolerance-dose vitamin C for AIDS, please mention them.
Bob, what do you think of changing just the last sentence? You quoted the Mills paper as saying:
Currently, our article states:
I suggest that a more accurate, less misleading (and possibly grammatically more correct) representation of the information given in the citation is the last sentence of the draft paragraph, i.e.:
The word "paucity" could be used instead of "shortage" to be even closer to the wording of the original, though I prefer "shortage" as likely understood by a wider audience. Changing this sentence in this way would address the concern I raised about the current version of this sentence being false or at least highly misleading. When I read the Mills paper, I was surprised, because the sentence giving it as a citation seemed to me to be saying that there was no statistically significant evidence in support of alternative therapies for AIDS, yet this paper lists a number of studies showing such evidence.
I haven't seen evidence that the use of alternative therapies is diminishing; in fact, Mills refers to it as "widespread".
Please specify which words you consider to be weasel words in this draft paragraph, and I will try to address that concern in another edit. What needs to be made less vague?
Please specify what it is about this draft paragraph that seems to you to give a false air that these are effective treatments. How about changing "... have been used to treat symptoms and modify the course of the disease..." to "... have been used for the purpose of treating symptoms and modifying the course of the disease..."?
Re vitamin C: I've given a list of reasons above for mentioning it. I would prefer to say more about it but am compromising by cutting it down to a single noun phrase with a link and footnotes. Humans apparently use vitamin C for all of the same purposes as other mammals and there is no evidence that the optimal amount for humans is any less (scaled by body weight) than that for all other mammals.
The reason I listed five treatments is that those are the ones for which some evidence of effectiveness has been presented here (except perhaps acupuncture, which can therefore be deleted). This is in conformity to the list of criteria established earlier in this discussion. The current version also lists a number of treatments. Such a list constitutes information, the provision of which is the purpose of an encyclopedia.
I fail to see how a single noun clause can constitute a "focus" on orthomolecular medicine. -- Coppertwig 14:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I propose to change the last sentence of the Treatment section as described above, to conform to the information given in the citation. -- Coppertwig 12:27, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
In a spirit of focusing on article content, I'm deleting some of my comments above. I hope this deletion doesn't violate any Wikipedian policy or guideline and that someone will point it out to me if it does. -- Coppertwig 01:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Daily multivitamin supplements and selenium have each been found to reduce HIV disease progression among men and women. This could become an important low-cost intervention provided during early HIV disease to prolong the time before antiretroviral therapy is required. [1] [8] Various forms of alternative medicine have also been used to treat symptoms or alter the course of the disease. [2] These include, among others, massage, stress management, boxwood [3], and bowel-tolerance-dose vitamin C [4] [5]. [6] When used with conventional treatment, many now refer to these as "complementary" approaches. There is a concerning shortage of studies to establish the effectiveness of complementary and alternative treatments for HIV/AIDS. [7]
Modified the data set to include some of your extra things (the boxwood thing has never been published, so has not been peer-reviewed anywhereappears in Phytomedicine, not listed in Pubmed). I don't believe we need mention vit C as it is more than aptly covered in the paragraph above, and is better placed there anyway. --
Bob
23:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Also, Daily multivitamin and mineral supplements and selenium have each been found to reduce HIV disease progression among men and women. This could become an important low-cost intervention provided during early HIV disease to prolong the time before antiretroviral therapy is required. is better placed above, where I put it before being reverted. --
Bob
00:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
no, you may not. however, as I wrote it in the article would be what I would be ok with. -- Bob 02:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
The previous paragraph mentions multivitamins with an appropriate reference. The references you propose are BS studies that have not been proven. We should not be linking to BS studies within a treatment section, but to reviews of these studies if we are to link to anything at all. In my opinion, and it seems to be a consensus in this article for a while now, we only link to studies that have been proven in proper clinical trials. You may have observed the removal of many so-called miracle cures from this article over the past year, the latest Iranian herbal remedy as a recent example. Finally, my reasoning for placing them above is that, in some cases, they have proved promising in proper clinical trials and read better there as well, instead of after a bit about PCP and toxoplasmosis -- Bob 02:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Coppertwig, my no was referring to your version of the last sentence. I didn't bother replying to your continued assumptions as I thought it was more than obvious, but hey probably not. I agree with JoeSmack and reaffirm the validity of None of these treatments have been proven in controlled trials to have any effect in treating HIV or AIDS.. Some papers state that there is an effect, but these are not properly controlled and do not hold widespread support. The current statement upholds the current medical opinion. I object to the changing of the last sentence. Clear enough now? On another note, I now see why you wish to include vitamin studies within this paragraph, as the uninformed reader may believe that there is a link between all the alternative treatments... Yet another reason to keep them apart in the position where I put them before being reverted. -- Bob 07:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Lab studies: vitamin C inhibits HIV
"Prolonged exposure of virus (37 degrees C for 4 days) in the presence of ascorbate (100-150 micrograms/ml) resulted in the drop by a factor of 3-14 in RT activity as compared to a reduction by a factor of 25-172 in extracellular RT released from chronically infected cells. These results indicate that ascorbate mediates an anti-HIV effect by diminishing viral protein production in infected cells and RT stability in extracellular virions."
Harakeh S, Jariwalla R, Pauling L (1990). "Suppression of human immunodeficiency virus replication by ascorbate in chronically and acutely infected cells". Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 87 (18): 7245–9.
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"Ca-ascorbate reduced extracellular HIV reverse transcriptase (RT) activity by about the same magnitude as the equivalent dose of AA [ascorbic acid]. Long-term experiments showed that continuous presence of ascorbate was necessary for HIV suppression. ... These results further support the potent antiviral activity of ascorbate and suggest its therapeutic value in controlling HIV infection in combination with thiols. " [9]
Clinical studies: micronutrients and AIDS
"RESULTS: Development of deficiency of vitamin A or vitamin B12 was associated with a decline in CD4 cell count (P = 0.0255 and 0.0377, respectively), while normalization of vitamin A, vitamin B12 and zinc was associated with higher CD4 cell counts (P = 0.0492, 0.0061 and 0.0112, respectively). These findings were largely unaffected by zidovudine use. For vitamin B12, low baseline status significantly predicted accelerated HIV-1 disease progression determined by CD4 cell count (P = 0.041) and the AIDS index (P = 0.005). CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that micronutrient deficiencies are associated with HIV-1 disease progression and raise the possibility that normalization might increase symptom-free survival." [10]
"The death rate was lower in the micronutrients arm with the mortality hazard ratios [95% confidence interval (CI)] of 0.53 (0.22-1.25; P = 0.1) overall and 0.37 (0.13-1.06; P = 0.052) and 0.26 (0.07-0.97; P = 0.03) among those with CD4 cell counts < 200 x 10(6)/l and < 100 x 10(6)/l respectively. There was no impact on CD4 cell count or plasma viral load. CONCLUSIONS: Multiple micronutrient supplementation may enhance the survival of HIV-infected individuals with CD4 cell counts < 200 x 10(6)/l. ..." [11]
Adequately reviewed in the paper currently cited along with the statement multivitamin. And just a side issue, what happens in a culture dish is far from what happens in vivo in many cases. --
Bob
07:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I do. If we are to change it, and I suppose that Coppertwig won't stop until we do (not a personal attack, just an observation), why don't we change it to the exact wording of the Mills et al article? ie. Despite the widespread use of complementary and alternative medicine by people living with HIV/AIDS, the effectiveness of these therapies has not been established. This way we do not cherrypick the parts that we wish to include to support a specific POV, but something which has been peer removed, nor do we twist the words to mean something that they don't mean. I cannot see any valid objection to this. It states the facts as is.
On the subject of boxwood, I would be under the impression that boxwood therapy, published in the well renowned journal of phytomedicine and reviewed in another, as herbal and flower remedies. Place the reference there to the great journal of phytomedicine or whatever it was. -- Bob 01:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Something I do believe that needs to be added to this section is the fact that one such vitamin/mineral regimen, KPAX: http://www.k-pax.us ,has been approved by and can now be paid for by NY State ADAP: http://www.k-pax.us/downloads/ADAP_doc_info.pdf . Not sure how to "state this" without it sounding like some kind of endorsement, but it does lend more weight to the whole "Alternative Therapies" debate especially those involving vitamins/minerals. — ZacWolf 13:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Why has there not been any focus on the supposed discoverer of the virus , Dr Robert C Gallo. In 1975 he was working on Leukemia in context of retroviruses. And he holds 79 medical patents relating to Aids medical treatment. Conflict of interest? Also where is the issue over the Reagan administration in the early 80's who actively helped to create the term "Aids" They also helped Gallo with his patents. A LOT of material needs to be added here.-- Redblossom 23:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The fact that AIDS was originally referred to as GRID and the reason the name was subsequently changed is mentioned 3 times in the article; that's approximately 2 times more than necessary. If subsequent mention is needed it can be expressed as a short phrase such as "Originally dubbed GRID, ..." below, rather restated as a sentence. If possible two of the three similar stories can be simply edited away. Here I'm simply trying to reduce repetition; expanding one of the three versions with more detail can also be OK.
Under "CDC classification system for HIV infection":
Under "Origin of HIV" it says:
Under "HIV and AIDS misconceptions" it says:
Any objections to my editing two of these down? Should I present the proposed edits here first? If someone else wants to go ahead and do it that's OK with me, too. -- Coppertwig 03:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
DONE. User Grcampbell (Bob) deleted the redundant information in the misconceptions section, (thanks, Bob), and I cut down the other two sections, trying to retain one copy of any significant information; I moved the mention of the year 1982 into the CDC section. -- Coppertwig 01:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I know that it's not a widely accepted belief but a small group of people, namely white South Africans have taken to the belief that God sent it and maybe this theory should be included? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.27.56.178 ( talk) 21:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC).
I believe there is already another page that contains the less reputable theories related to the origin of AIDS-- Thomascartwright 17:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
This proposal came out of the "Alternative treatment" discussion above. The proposal is to create a new page "Treatment of HIV/AIDS", and move the content of the "Treatment" section of this (AIDS) page onto it, and also move and merge the content of the "Treatment" section of the HIV page onto it. On the AIDS page and on the HIV page, a short (few paragraphs) summary will remain along with a link to the new page. See Wikipedia:Summary style. Advantages of creating the new page:
I'll also put a note on the HIV talk page, directing discussion here. Comments? -- Coppertwig 05:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Over the course of about 2 years I have heard reports that the cure for completely eliminating AIDS has been found. Paul Harvy News was the first I heard of this. Then I also read from BBC a article about the cure however it was deleted shortly after. CNN has never had a article to my knowlege of such a issue. My friends say it might be a Hush Hush thing that the US governmet is doing. However I have to know. Can anyone besides me and my friends and a couple of people from around my town, verify that the cure has been found??
thanks Maverick423 21:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
There IS a cure for AIDS - it was patented in the US in 1997. Why does the article make no mention of this?? Surely this is something that we should know?! The cure is called "Method of curing AIDS with tetrasilver tetroxide molecular crystal devices" and was patented by Marvin S. Antelman. Go to the United States Patent and Trademark Office Database ( http://patft.uspto.gov/) and search for Patent Number 5676977 - there are the details. The claims made in the patent have not been investigated by any mainstream scientific body, but the treatment was tried by Boyd Graves, a lawyer and AIDS activist ( http://www.boydgraves.com) who says he has proof that AIDS was a result of the US Government's "Special Virus Cancer Program" and is trying to take the Government to court - he now claims he is sympton free and physically fine.
201.247.123.183 15:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
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A couple of issues; the first reference/point ("used to treat AIDS with good preliminary clinical results") is an entirely anecdotal paper from Medical Hypotheses from 1984 (3 strikes?). Second, vitamin C wasn't "shown to reduce viral load" in Allard's paper; there was a trend toward lower viral load (p=0.1) which did not reach the standard criteria for statistical significance. You may as well note that the vitamin C group had more infections than the placebo group (9 vs. 7) - also a "trend" which did not reach statistical significance. I'm not sure of the source for the final claim (that people with AIDS can tolerate higher doses of vitamin C). I understand no large-scale clinical trials of high-dose vitamin C have been done, but Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs; it's more a place to report on the studies that have been done. I do think something about the 2004 multivitamin study ( PMID 15229304) should be included under treatment, both because of its relevance and because its findings are so often misrepresented. MastCell 05:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Wow i didnt know there were so many versions of this. hopfully we get the cure soon. well like i said i heard on the radio that the source of the cure was found on the secretions of a toad in south africa or something like that. I guess that was a little to good to be true. In anyways Thanks much for all the feed back! and feel free to continue i like hearing the diffrent points of views and researches. Maverick423 18:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
"...use of dirty needles by public health services was the main cause of transmission in the study period, with sexual transmission accounting for just 30% of infections." [1]
It is also known that that poor medical practice accounts for many infections in the underdeveloped parts in China too. [2]
I know the UN has rejected many of these reports in Africa. [3] But I still think its important that this discrepancy gets some discussion, and if it has already then I am sorry for missing it. But this is something that needs to be addressed if it has any truth to it. -- JonM 14:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I heard that if one drinks two liters of someone's HIV-positive saliva they might get infected, is that possible? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bob diablo ( talk • contribs) 02:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC).
What about a drop of saliva on a open wound would that infect? Maverick423 15:08, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
The problem as far as oral infection is not with saliva, but with semen, vaginal discharges, milk or blood coming into contact with a torn mucous membrane due to tooth injury, gum abbrassion, retracting gums and things like that. Get two people with poor gum health to kiss deeply for an extended period, and there is real risk of infection. 88.152.19.206 23:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, high doses of vitamin C cause diarrhea, one of the things that leads to HIV wasting and AIDS. Great idea... -- Bob 01:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
The footnotes are not displaying correctly. In the last paragraph of the Treatment section are two references to an article with author Saltmarsh and title "Voodo or Valid?", but this article does not display in the list of references. I've tried with two different browsers. It appears as footnote 93, but footnote 93 display as a different article. Perhaps there is no superscript for footnote 94. -- Coppertwig 03:20, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMOD Could this be a possible cure? I just stumbled upon 2 minutes ago. If so, then the treatment paragraph should be changed. Or atleast give this IMOD as a possible cure. -- 63.170.80.2 21:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC) It hasn't been properly tested.
Many scientists and their dogs are coming up with cures, yet these are not properly scrutinised and/or tested. Until we are sure that it helps, we shouldn't add it in. -- Bob 22:12, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
At "Draft alternative treatment paragraph" above, I suggest moving the two sentences about vitamin supplements from the end of one paragraph to the beginning of the next paragraph. The positioning of these two sentences is under discussion, along with the rest of the draft paragraph, and this issue is not yet resolved. Please do not move these sentences to any other position, or make any other changes to the section under discussion (last paragraph of Treatment section plus last two sentences of second-last paragraph) until consensus has been reached.
Please discuss on the Talk page. As Joe Smack said above, "...it is a better idea to post the new source here instead of the article and dealing with a second revert and raised temperatures of editors.". -- Coppertwig 00:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
The section you have flagged was not originally part of the discussion, yet you have included it now. There is no real discussion taking place here. A discussion would involve people talking about it. The only thing I see here is an insistence of the inclusion of a POV. Namely vitamin C research which has not been clinically proven. I have tried discussing this with you, yet you are apparently unable to see the facts of the matter as published in the article written by Mills et al and others. Furthermore you only revert the parts that are not in agreement with your POV. If you wish to have a discussion take the matter to the wikiproject medicine and ask them to review your facts and theories and ask the other doctors who contribute to articles whether or not biased, unproven research deserves a place within this heavily read article. I, for one, do not wish to see this article degenerate into the piece of trash that it was just over a year ago. A lot of hard work was carried out by many contributors to get this article to FA status. Insistence on the inclusion of quackery will only lead to it being delisted. Is this what we want? -- Bob 00:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I apologize if I accidentally misplaced a ref tag or something while reverting and I thank you for discussing here rather than carrying on an edit war.
And thank you, Bob, for catching and fixing that extra ref tag.
Although the positioning of the last two sentences of the second-last paragraph of the treatment section was not part of the discussion at the beginning of the "Alternative treatment" discussion, it has been part of the discussion there since January 28, when I proposed moving these sentences to the beginning of a paragraph for the purpose of increasing their prominence. -- Coppertwig 00:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
This part belongs in the article, and I put "claims" exactly because it has not yet been shown or proven... Azerbaijani 00:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
people,
It's not a "cure". That's a mistranslation, and/or misquote. It's more of a treatment. For those of you who can read the original reports, see here as an example: [4]. The Minsiter even says it is meant as a "supplementary treatment to fight AIDS by boosting the immune system against the virus". [5]. The treatment is being registered by the EU, according to the ministry. [6]. It is in the stages of marketing for treating Iran's AIDS victims. [7] So it's pointless to discuss the authenticity of the treatment while it is already in use in a country of 75 million.-- Zereshk 19:36, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
(Unindent) Yes. MastCell 21:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
well guys lets keep our fingers crossed that this experiment works this time. Maverick423 18:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6342575.stm
Also since this is recent information should we add this to the article or something?? Maverick423 18:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Darn then i guess we have to wait 4 years before we can acctually write about this then eh and thats assuming it works.
Maverick423
18:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
well i can try i have never written an article on news before like that =) ill try then Maverick423 14:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
http://aidsmap.com/en/docs/E3532777-3437-436E-8CD6-58C26BE9A49C.asp Orpingtonian 21:46, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
The introduction says that "AIDS... is caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)". But towards the end of the article there is a reference to "Alternative Hypotheses" where it is made clear that this is still debated among a (very small) number of scientists. This makes it look like Wikipedia is taking sides in this debate. I suggest either the "Alternative Hypotheses" section is removed entirely or else the introduction is amended to say something along the lines of...
"AIDS... is widely believed to be caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)."
The Alternative Hypotheses have either been debunked or they have not. The introduction as it stands seems to say that they have been. And if they have been debunked then why include them in the article at all? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hne123 ( talk • contribs) 16:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
correct me if im wrong but i think aids is caused from HIV. HIV is the immune diffciancy and AIDS is the advanced state of the diffciancy. Maverick423 18:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Please re-read my entry. I am referring to the minority of scientists who question the link between HIV and AIDS. They are either disproved or nthey are not. Hne123 08:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
There is no REAL problem here. This is the best we can do with the POV pushers of the extreme minority view. -- Bob 01:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
ok guys i have a question here
as we recall on a earlier conversation about saliva and infection. 2 liters of saliva isnt enough to get infected if ingested orally. in the same note it is more probable to get infected through a wound. meaning the mouth and digestive system might be stronger to the threat of aids. however breastmilk when ingested can give a child the virus. what is the diffrence between these if they are both ingested orally? yes i read the article but i cant seem to find it anywere Maverick423 18:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
oh i see great info =) Maverick423 18:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Dose anyone know if aids research money raised by charity or given out by governments ever goes to drug companies or dose it all go to researchers in university's. If some of the money dose go to a drug company dose that change the company's patent on new drugs? Maybe this is a question for an IP lawyer but any answers or links are appreciated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.219.159.72 ( talk) 18:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
How long do you survive with retroviral drugs after the diagnosis of aids is made? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.167.243.90 ( talk • contribs).
- 5 years?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.167.241.183 ( talk • contribs).
the most i heard of a person surviving is 8 years. cant confirm this though sorry Maverick423 19:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
It can depend on a number of factors, age, weight, host and viral genetics, regime prescribed, adherence etc etc etc. Taking an average is difficult when talking about survival after treatment starts. Even more so than estimating life expectancy without HAART. -- Bob 02:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Do you think that future treatments will allow people to live a normal lifespan?
A recent Danish study [Lohse N et al. Survival of persons with and without HIV infection in Denmark, 1995-2005. Annals of Internal Medicine:146: 87-95, 2007.] has suggested that in settings where there is easy and FREE access to care and HIV medication (commenced at 250 cells/mm3), a young adult diagnosed with HIV - but without HCV - has an estimated median survival rate of MORE than 35 years (getting better with every year that passes) and that, whilst this is still 10 years short of general life expectancy, death is now unlikely to be directly related to HIV. In the United Kingdom, most people newly diagnosed with HIV are told to expect a near normal lifespan, similar to that of anyone now in remission from the likes of cancer (if they are sensible) Orpingtonian 11:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Re: footnotes 122 and 123, just a quibble but important to those of us pursuing history and origins.
The presence of AIDS in in a blood sample from an adult male in Kinshasa, Zaire (then Leopoldville, Belgian Congo)in 1959 has not been independently confirmed. The virus was found using some of the early testing methods, which produced false positives due to the so-called "sticky sera" problem. Also, there are strong suggestions that the individual may have had G6PD deficiency, as well as possibly suffering from malarial-induced anemia.
See:
Williams, G. Stretton, T.B. Leonard, J.C. "AIDS in 1959?"Lancet1983: 1136 (link at http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/David_Ho_Paper_Nature_Rebuttal.html
Balter, Michael. "Virus from 1959 Sample Marks Early years of HIV".Science. 1998: 279:801.
The other famous case from 1959-60, that of the "Manchester sailor," was of course refuted by Dr David Ho in 1993. See "How scientists discovered false evidence on the world's "first AIDS victim,"" Steve Connor, Science Correspondent, The Independent (INDT), London, March 24, 1995 (link at: http://www.aegis.com/news/misc/1995/IN950301.html)
As for the first AIDS case in the US, researchers at Tulane in 1988 were able to isolate antibodies to a virus closely resembling AIDS from autopsy specimens preserved since 1969. The victim, a teenaged black male from the Midwest, had died after a 16-month illness bearing many similarities to modern AIDS. The timing of the patient's illness and death (his illness dated to 1968, though the actual date of infection could not be determined), his apparent lack of risk factors associated with the current epidemic, and small differences in histology suggest that his case cannot be considered as among the progenitors of the present epidemic (his doctors believed that he had sexual behavior risk factors, but could not confirm their suspicions through interviews with the patient and his family). However, this case does serve to refute origin theories suggesting the virus emerged "suddenly" or "all at once" in the late 1970s/early 1980s.
See: R. F. Garry, M. H. Witte, A. A. Gottlieb, M. Elvin-Lewis, M. S. Gottlieb, C. L. Witte, S. S. Alexander, W. R. Cole and W. L. Drake Jr Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Tulane University School of Medicine, New Orleans, LA 70112; JAMA, October 14, 1988, vol. 260, p. 2085 (link at: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/260/14/2085)
stacie dotson Staciedotson 08:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I seen that someone recommended this for deletion and I agree, it's too jumbled up or too long. I wish the article had a rumors section so we can see some of the myths and evolution. Also, if it was out since 1981, why wasn't there any songs about it and why did it not get mention till the 1990s although The Blob had condoms for random reasons. 74.195.3.199 17:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Whilst the CDC classification would appear to be correct as stated, the accompanying text does actually use some unfortunate wording that gives a somewhat incorrect impression of the real state of affairs in the devloped world.
1: Most “devloped countries” do NOT use the CDC classification. Almost all developed countries used the WHO disease staging system.
2: In most “developed countries”, AIDS is ONLY diagnosed with the onset of AIDS defining illnesses (Stage II on the WHO staging system).
3: In most “developed countries”, a CD4 cell count below 200 cells/mm3 does NOT trigger an automatic AIDS diagnosis.
4: In most "developed countries", the AIDS diagnosis does NOT stand when AIDS-defining illnesses have been cured.
Most “developed countries” regard the CDC classifications as arcane and prejudicial .. and very far from setting a gold standard.
I would like to suggest that this section of the article be modified to remove this false impression. Orpingtonian 11:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Arcane and prejudical (and leading to stigmatisaion) are the exact reason why the European definition is there .. and why it is NOT identical to the CDC definition anywhere where it refers to CD4 cell counts (not just one singular place). I refer Trezatium to both UK guidelines and the European definitions as clear examples stating that the AIDS diagnosis does NOT stand when AIDS-defining illnesses have been cured.
I am not asking for the "arcane and prejudical" statement to be included (it would serve no purpose) .. simply that the wording "The majority of new AIDS cases in developed countries use either this definition or the pre-1993 CDC definition." be changed, so as to remove the four wholly incorrect conclusions that would be drawn from it.
Does anyone (not just Trezatium) have any credible reference to support the notion that an AIDS diagnosis still stands in most countries, even when the illness(es) that lead to the diagnosis have been cured? I very much doubt it. Orpingtonian 12:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I think your suggested edit is perfectly fair; but I still think that “The AIDS diagnosis still stands even if, after treatment, the CD4+ T cell count rises to above 200 per µL of blood or other AIDS-defining illnesses are cured” needs to be clarified and moved futher up the paragraph, so that it comes before your suggested revision.
The reason that European surveillance reports tend not to include such data is that it is no longer considered particularly relevant and that there is a concerted effort to avoid stigmatising people (most of whom, in the devloped world, will ever die of an AIDS defining illness) with a diagnosis that pleases reporting, but doesn’t reflect their curent state of health. As individuals (not numbers), people in Europe are only regarded as having AIDS if they are CURRENTLY suffering from an AIDS defining illness. Whilst HIV can't be cured; AIDS is certainly reversable in most people .. even in those who are diagnosed very late and well beyond the point at which the CDC classifications would label them as suffering from AIDS.
You'll have to forgive the activist in me. Orpingtonian 13:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I suggest a rewrite of the "Diagnosis" section, mainly based on this article. Trezatium 14:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I think that the rewritten Diagnosis section should do the following:
Trezatium 22:23, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Where do you go about getting tested for HIV? and is there a home test kit? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.167.240.144 ( talk • contribs).
i posted this about a cure for aids derived from frogs that i heard on paul harvy *im sure some of you remember* anyways i was only able to find a very small refreance to it here http://www.howstuffworks.com/bye-bye-kermie.htm
it is stated on the very bottom of the article i think on the 3rd to the last paragraph. if i can find more on it i think it might be worth noting on the article? user:maverick423
My understanding of "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" is that Wikipedia shouldn't be on the breaking edge of untested, difficult-to-verify scientific claims. Hence, also, the WP:RS injunction to "Avoid citing the popular press on scientific matters." The same thing comes up at cancer - every time a tumor shrinks in a rat somewhere, there's talk of adding a long section to the cancer article about the new "cure". In general, it's best to wait until things are actually tested in humans and reported in the scientific literature. Science and research will go on regardless, and it will keep these articles from becoming a mishmash of unverified claims. MastCell 17:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
can a man be infected by going down on a woman and lickin her outStrike-through text —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
203.214.97.7 (
talk)
12:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC).
VAGINA? no.
Jackrobinson9517
09:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Proposed edit to fourth and fifth paragraph of Treatment section:
-- Coppertwig 01:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Surely there should be a prognosis section? Including expected lifetimes and effects of treatment? Thedreamdied 11:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't this page semi-protected, it's highly vandalized, and it continues to be. If this is just a way of catching vandals or something, that's weird.
Blind
man
shady
02:56, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't it bother anyone that this article acts as though there is no correlation between homosexual contact and AIDS? The facts about the rate of HIV among homosexuals can still be presented without passing any kind of judgment on homosexuals. Chicken Wing 22:46, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it's easier to contract HIV from anal intercourse - see the large table in the article, which contains relative risks of various routes (blood transfusion, needle-sharing, sexual practices, etc). I don't see a coverup or a "blatant bias" here. Mentioning that HIV disproportionately affects the homosexual community in the West isn't evidence of bias. However, focusing stridently on it may make people wonder. MastCell Talk 02:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
This is the paragraph I propose:
In developed countries AIDS is most prevalent among homosexual and bisexual males who have sexual intercourse with other males.1 In the United States men who have sex with men (MSM) accounted for 56.8 percent of new HIV infections in 2003.2 In fact, infection rates have stabilized in the West among the general population while in the gay population rates have increased.3 The reasons for this are that homosexual and bisexual men as a whole have more sex partners, have more unprotected sex, and because engaging in receptive anal intercourse carries a higher risk than other forms of penetrative sex.4 Despite over two decades of sex education targeted to the gay community, the incidence of HIV is still going up.5 In inner-city Sydney, Australia along with other major Western cities, AIDS statistics among homosexual males are “comparable to an AIDS-ravaged African nation.”6 Critics charge that political correctness has led to the association of MSM and HIV being downplayed.7
It's not perfect, but it's a start. It can be expanded and have more sources added to it if need be. The article itself is so long that it would take me a while to go through and find all the things that are perhaps a little dubious, but it's a task that probably needs to be done. Chicken Wing 06:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm curently writing a book, and I'm anal about keeping all story elements accurate, and the question rose , if a person already has Cancer, then conatracts AIDs, will the AIDs cause the current Cancer to worsen at an accellerated rate? I've spent hours on multiple Wikipedia AIDs pages, and I've found much information about contracting AIDs, then Cancer, though none about the other way around. I would very much appreciate any information on this subject on that you have. - unsigned
That above article contains a hyperlink to Mr Fumento's web page. There is a lot of pertinent imformation about aids on that website. I am currently attempting to get wikipedia to add that hyperlink to the main article. Please feel free to contact me and give me your oppinion on this matter. Randy Bugger 12:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Is AIDS being over funded at at the expense of other equally worthy charities ? Michael Fumento seems to think so. Unfortunately I cannot include the hyperlink(s) in question in this DISCUSSION space without risking being BLOCKED from editing wikipedia. This will probably change in the days and weeks to come as cooler heads (including mine) begin to prevail. Randy Bugger 09:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I am a wikipedia neophyte. There is no question about that. I was however very concerned when I noticed that the main article didn't have much if anything to say about homosexuality and aids. Today I noticed that a user named "chicken wing" is proposing a change to the main article that would address these concerns. I also noticed that he is being taken seriously by at least 2 wikipedia pundits. It is my contention that if people such as "chicken wing" had easy access to the Michael Fumento page they would find the task of convincing the aforementioned pundits that there is in fact ample evidence to support the notion that their is a strong correlation between homosexuality and aids. Mr Fumento has been arguing that very argument for years. Perhaps the time has come to email Mr Fumento himself and ask him to reveal his sources. Randy Bugger 08:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps the word Receptive Anal Intercourse should be used in place of any reference to Homosexuality in general. That would make the task of editing a whole lot simpler. Gays and the gay life style are not to blame. It isn't useful to blame anyone. Randy Bugger 10:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Do do you think that a chart and or section on aids funding since its onset is a good idea. It is pertinent to the main article and I am surprised that one does not exist already. I think it should be done with discretion. It would also help negate any reasonable objection(s) from aids dissidents. Moses Weintraub 09:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I may do that in time. I am presently looking for such a chart and may have to create one from scratch. I am fairly ignorant of WIKI copyright policy pursuant to charts and graphs. Moses Weintraub 07:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't see any kind of chart or summary of the demographic breakdown of the infected population, i.e., a breakdown of victims by ethnicity, by gender, by age, by sexual preference, by income, by education, etc. The "Estimated per act risk for acquisition of HIV by exposure route" table in the "Transmission and prevention" section displays quite well the infection risks for particular behaviors, but I'm looking for a categorization of people already infected based on multiple criteria. It may be that some of this info is in the article, but it is not presented as a section by itself. — Loadmaster 18:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
It's possible, albiet very rare, for HIV to be transmitted by organ transplant. Since it is technically possible, perhaps it should be added to the list [18]. 68.116.112.32 23:37, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Why are there (almost) no links to sister wikiprojects? Is this on purpose? -- Eleassar my talk 14:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
What about Commons and Wiktionary? -- Eleassar my talk 15:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I've added them now. -- Eleassar my talk 16:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I asked about these links and as there was no useful answer, I have added them. Wikipedia encourages links to sister projects and interlanguage links when possible ( WP:SISTER#Guidelines). You are free to remove them. The Wikiquote entry is a shame indeed, the link to wiktionary has been fixed to point to the right place and the links to Wikinews and Commons that offer free news and free images (see also commons:category:AIDS) are quite useful. Much more useful than just one link to Wikinews that was there before. -- Eleassar my talk 21:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Is it possible to add a link to the Wiki article for FightAIDS@Home? I think it would be a valuable addition, provided it was in the proper place. 23:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Moved from the article:
This paper seems to be controversial, to say the least. From Nature, vol 447, 28 June 2007, pp1040-1. To quote one comment: "The paper is total drivel, it should have been picked up in the review process," claims Tim Farley, an official in the World Health Organization’s HIV-prevention team in Geneva. "And coming from PLoS One gives [the views in the press release] a public perception of validity. In public health there are severe dangers in such stuff getting through."
It seemed best to simply remove it, as documenting arguments for and against one paper is somewhat tangential... Jakew 18:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
German scientists find a way to kill the virus inside infected cells: German newspapers and science write it:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/316/5833/1912 212.95.99.39 09:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
http://aids.gov/ Access to information on Federal HIV/AIDS prevention, testing, treatment, and research programs, policies, and resources.
http://hivtest.org/ Find an HIV testing site near you.
19:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Another proposal
National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health's Bloodborne Infectious Diseases Page where users can find info on needlestick and sharps injuries, universal precautions, research, regulations, legislation, etc. -- Tisdalepardi 20:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I suggest AIDSPortal. Covers research, case studies and policy information. Also has contact information for people and organisations running HIV programmes in developing countries and new resources that they share through the site. Useful resource for anyone interested in HIV and AIDS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aids information ( talk • contribs) 14:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
BBC NEWS reported -
World 'losing fight against Aids'
Dr Fauci says there must be greater effort to boost prevention The world is losing the battle against HIV/Aids, US President George W Bush's top adviser on the virus has said. Dr Anthony Fauci told a conference in Sydney that progress had been made but more people were being infected with HIV than were being treated.
-- Florentino floro 05:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
How would one know that donated blood is contaminated of H I V if blood is donated with in safe period-- Vijaypandey 14:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Skypher is right: these are weasel words: "These claims are considered baseless by the vast majority of the scientific community. The medical community argues that so-called "AIDS dissidents" selectively ignore evidence in favor of HIV's role in AIDS and irresponsibly pose a threat to public health by discouraging HIV testing and proven treatments.". I was surprised to find that the two footnotes attached to these sentences do not purport to establish a scientific consensus in favour of the HIV/AIDS theory. Rather, they contain quotes by people who do not believe that HIV causes AIDS. Relevant footnotes (at least) are required (or directing the reader to another section of the article perhaps for verification?) Or, if the required information is contained somewhere within the cited articles (I didn't read the whole things) then maybe the footnote needs to contain a quote. -- Coppertwig 13:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for finding those references, MastCell. Well done. I would just like to point out that references number 139 and 141 (the first and 3rd of 5 references listed) seem to be pointing to essentially the same article (Duesberg phenomenon) and should probably be combined into one (or further distinguished from each other somehow, if they are intended to mean different articles in the same group of articles in a periodical.) Thanks. -- Coppertwig 17:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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Blood transfer? Or do I even want to know?
-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.7 ( talk • contribs).
I would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on this issue. Is it true that AIDS or HIV spreads more easily among homosexual men than homosexual women? If so, why is that? 213.115.62.100 08:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I just read in the Week that circumsicion helps prevent AIDS, is this true? I so, should it be added? 70.226.157.30 03:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)Wiki neophyte and poor speller
The article talks about transmission through mucus membranes. I thought there was some evidence that there was transmission through dendritic cells, even without the presence of mucus. Is this correct?
Also, I wonder about sweat during sex. I have heard that sweat contains the virus. If one has sores on one's skin and if one is in prolonged sweaty contact with the skin of another, even if there is no contact through mucus membranes or dendritic cells, couldn't there be transmission?
Also, why isn't there more discussion here of whether sex is really voluntary behavior? It seems to me that for many people having sex is no more voluntary behavior than eating. It might be possible to stop it for a while, but not forever. It seems to me that asking sexually active people to protect each other from infection is like asking the fox to guard the hen house.
does anyone else think that AIDS isnt transmited throuch pregnancy. the blood dosent mix in the placenta and no cells cross the barrier. the only transmision from mother to child is in child birth, breast feeding or sharing needles etc.
could someone please edit this as it is really bugging me.
thanks
AIDS has been proven to transfer from mother to child. Case closed.
I am naive in the various AIDS debates, though I have known some victims of the disease. However, having just watched the famous 2004 CBC documentary on Edward Hooper theories, the OPV AIDS hypothesis I found it very convincing and disturbing. I came to wikipedia for some reassurance and background, however, I was very dissappointed in the relevant party of this main AIDS article. The origins section and alternatives are very shallow. They do not even link to other wikipedia articles treating the subject in more depth. Alternative_theories_about_the_origin_of_AIDS, Category:AIDS_origin_hypotheses, AIDS_reappraisal, OPV_AIDS_hypothesis should at least be mentioned. I find this section really takes a side in the debate and departs from NPOV.
Perticularly the quote: "Subsequently, this hypothesis has been refuted by examination of these original polio vaccine stocks and establishing that they do not contain material of chimpanzee origin.[114]" is out of context, it should be on the OPV page where it can be disputed or verified. There is dispute of this finding, the most obvious being the logical impossibility of finding a sample to test that was also used.
Anyway, I don't have the background to authoritatively change this, my reference is a TV show, albeit a good one. So I'm going to simply link these other wikipedia articles - even on a functional argument basis, the main AIDS trunk should lead to these branches. I'm not going to delete the offending quotation, because maybe it should be restated or by someone with a good reference to cite. 154.20.109.121 06:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
What is the person has received a BJ with a Condom on? Can he still get AIDS? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]).
What is the person has received a Hand Job without a condom. Can he still get AIDS or HIV infection? Please let me know ASAP.
Hi, I think I saw a documentary on AIDS (maybe frontline?) that claimed that the dominant theory of AIDS transfer to humans was through consumption of primate meat. Can anyone confirm this? Can someone add the primate consumption theory to the article. I think I saw it on Frontline or another cable documetary. -- Gogosean 01:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Ew, who would eat PRIMATE meat? Just asking, but is it a delicacy some where?
The death toll every single day in Congo is somewhere between the death tolls of Hurricane Katrina and the September 11, 2001 attacks This would be 2752x365=1,085,145 a year, maybe the figure for whole africa
and the weekly death toll is about the same as the death toll of the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake that makes 186,983x52=9,723,116 a year, an absolutely ridiculous figure even considering only the number of the dead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.101.126.212 ( talk • contribs).
The number of AIDS deaths in sub-Saharan Africa is around two million per year, as correctly stated in the AIDS in Africa article. AIDS deaths in the Democratic Republic of the Congo amount to around 90,000 per year. I've no idea what 62.101.126.212 is referring to. Trezatium 19:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi.
I really like this article, it's great. I read not even half of it but I came across two parts of the text that I would like to comment on:
-- bb 21:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
This article has been severely vandalized, and I'm not sure how to revert it. On the history page, it shows that the current page should be a correct one, but it isn't. Could someone fix it?
from the main page: "in fact TCM have been proven to be able to cure AIDS totally."
Surely statements like this should have a source - or else isn't it weasel words or something?
As with most dominant discussions of HIV/AIDS, very little is said on this page about the socio-cultural and economic causes of the spread of HIV (that is, that it spreads primarily due to poverty and the low social status of women). Discussing the HIV/AIDS pandemic as though it is sheerly a health issue delimits the range of solutions to those focusing on health (and therefore driven by the "Northern" or developed health and research system. Poor people in Africa are creating great solutions (many based around home-based care and the empowerment of women) to HIV/AIDS at the community level, but it is very difficult for them to access funding for them.
I'm hoping to write a short section on these issues when I have a little time in the coming weeks. If anyone has a suggestion about where on the page it might go, please suggest away.
Thanks Shannonbah 02:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
That is aleady covered elsewhere in the article -- Bob 23:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
The following edit deleted a sentence about vitamin C; I reverted and restored the sentence. The deleting edit was: " 06:00, 6 December 2006 Grcampbell (Talk | contribs) (we don't need to add every alternative medicine that has been tested. We don't even list every type of ART used! Revert reversion.)"
I agree that we don't need to add every alternative medicine that has been tested. If, however, someone wishes to do so, I see no harm in it; if it takes up too much space it can be moved to a separate page. Ideally, information about the results of the tests would also be provided. Similarly for conventional treatments.
However, that explanation does not justify deleting the sentence about vitamin C, since this sentence was very far from listing the large number of alternative treatments that have no doubt been tried. The sentence was giving one example of an alternative treatment (very high doses of vitamin C) -- one which has been found in preliminary clinical trials to suppress the symptoms of AIDS and markedly reduce the tendency for secondary infections. Any treatment which does this deserves mention, in my opinion.
The section on alternative treatments is already much shorter than the section on conventional treatments and is at the end of a section and without a separate heading, where it is likely to attract less attention. Rather than shortening the alternative treatments section, a more balanced article could be achieved by lengthening the alternative treatments section and placing it where it is more likely to be seen (with a separate heading, or a topic sentence menioning it at the beginning of the treatment section, for example). -- Coppertwig 13:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Vitamin and mineral statements have been included above the alternative treatment section in a manner that is more than adequate for the amount of research and data that has been put forward about these. there is also a reference to a review article should anyone want more info on this topic. This should close any further debate on the issue. As the vitamin section is no longer within the scope of alternative treatment, the mills article should stand. Also, as the statement regarding the Mills article states that they do not have any effect in treating HIV and AIDS, which is still true, then that statement should also stand. Quality of life and treatment of HIV are two different things. -- Bob 03:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
If no one objects, I'll create another heading on this talk page "Proposed creation of page 'Treatment of HIV/AIDS'", and also put a note on the HIV page directing people to discuss the proposal to create such a page here. -- Coppertwig 23:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Here is a suggested edit which I hope may solve both the dispute about the deletion of the vitamin C sentence and the dispute about the proposed deletion/modification of the sentence currently attached to the Mills footnote.
The suggestion:
Begin a new paragraph just before "Daily multivitamin supplements...", i.e. split the last two sentences off the second-last paragraph of the Treatment section. Combine these with the following paragraph and rewrite that paragraph so that the last paragraph of the Treatment section will read as follows:
Daily multivitamin supplements have been found to reduce HIV disease progression among men and women. This could become an important low-cost intervention provided during early HIV disease to prolong the time before antiretroviral therapy is required. [1] Various forms of alternative medicine have also been used to treat symptoms or alter the course of the disease. [2] Examples of alternative medicine that people have used in an effort to improve their symptoms, disease progression or quality of life include massage, stress management, acupuncture; [2], boxwood [3], and bowel-tolerance-dose vitamin C [4] [5]. [6] When used with conventional treatment, many now refer to these as "complementary" approaches. There is a concerning shortage of studies to establish the effectiveness of complementary and alternative treatments for HIV/AIDS. [7]
Reasons in support of this suggestion:
If anyone objects to anything about this proposed edit, please discuss it here, and please propose alternative edits which address the above concerns, which satsify the list of criteria (which I proposed earlier and which no one has objected to), and which you believe are likely to be accepted by all involved. -- Coppertwig 16:06, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Too many weasel words, is vague, and gives a false air that these are effective treatments. Why mention just five? Why not more, why not less? Why bother listing at all? Give references from this decade please, a study in 1984 is hardly reliable as a guideline for today. Also, it presents suspect results that are, as yet, unvalidated by other studies carried out by other people/cohorts. Why the absolute requirement to mention vit C? I really don't understand the obsession with vit C. Other vitamins have shown better results in better studies. Humans are not other animals. Your reasons are speculative at best. The current version gives an historic basis for the terminology used, your version ignores this completely. The current version states clearly that quack approaches have become less common, your version ignores this. Current version is factual and researched and gives more information than yours. Perhaps integrate some of the forms of quack medicine that you have listed, but the rest, no. It is too focused on unresearched orthomolecular medicine. -- Bob 03:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Hickey's books states that cases of full-blown AIDS have gone into remission with large doses of vitamin C. You say that other vitamins have produced even better results; I'd like to read more about that -- could you tell me where to find information on it?
As I suggested above, please suggest an alternative version of the paragraph that you think satisfies the objections I raise to the current one. -- Coppertwig
The evidence suggests that vitamin C, in amounts comparable to the amounts produced by mammals when they are sick, i.e. bowel-tolerance levels or tens of grams, is likely a very effective treatment for AIDS. Results do not become less valid with the mere passage of time, but only when other experiments add more information. If you know of more recent experiments with bowel-tolerance-dose vitamin C for AIDS, please mention them.
Bob, what do you think of changing just the last sentence? You quoted the Mills paper as saying:
Currently, our article states:
I suggest that a more accurate, less misleading (and possibly grammatically more correct) representation of the information given in the citation is the last sentence of the draft paragraph, i.e.:
The word "paucity" could be used instead of "shortage" to be even closer to the wording of the original, though I prefer "shortage" as likely understood by a wider audience. Changing this sentence in this way would address the concern I raised about the current version of this sentence being false or at least highly misleading. When I read the Mills paper, I was surprised, because the sentence giving it as a citation seemed to me to be saying that there was no statistically significant evidence in support of alternative therapies for AIDS, yet this paper lists a number of studies showing such evidence.
I haven't seen evidence that the use of alternative therapies is diminishing; in fact, Mills refers to it as "widespread".
Please specify which words you consider to be weasel words in this draft paragraph, and I will try to address that concern in another edit. What needs to be made less vague?
Please specify what it is about this draft paragraph that seems to you to give a false air that these are effective treatments. How about changing "... have been used to treat symptoms and modify the course of the disease..." to "... have been used for the purpose of treating symptoms and modifying the course of the disease..."?
Re vitamin C: I've given a list of reasons above for mentioning it. I would prefer to say more about it but am compromising by cutting it down to a single noun phrase with a link and footnotes. Humans apparently use vitamin C for all of the same purposes as other mammals and there is no evidence that the optimal amount for humans is any less (scaled by body weight) than that for all other mammals.
The reason I listed five treatments is that those are the ones for which some evidence of effectiveness has been presented here (except perhaps acupuncture, which can therefore be deleted). This is in conformity to the list of criteria established earlier in this discussion. The current version also lists a number of treatments. Such a list constitutes information, the provision of which is the purpose of an encyclopedia.
I fail to see how a single noun clause can constitute a "focus" on orthomolecular medicine. -- Coppertwig 14:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I propose to change the last sentence of the Treatment section as described above, to conform to the information given in the citation. -- Coppertwig 12:27, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
In a spirit of focusing on article content, I'm deleting some of my comments above. I hope this deletion doesn't violate any Wikipedian policy or guideline and that someone will point it out to me if it does. -- Coppertwig 01:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Daily multivitamin supplements and selenium have each been found to reduce HIV disease progression among men and women. This could become an important low-cost intervention provided during early HIV disease to prolong the time before antiretroviral therapy is required. [1] [8] Various forms of alternative medicine have also been used to treat symptoms or alter the course of the disease. [2] These include, among others, massage, stress management, boxwood [3], and bowel-tolerance-dose vitamin C [4] [5]. [6] When used with conventional treatment, many now refer to these as "complementary" approaches. There is a concerning shortage of studies to establish the effectiveness of complementary and alternative treatments for HIV/AIDS. [7]
Modified the data set to include some of your extra things (the boxwood thing has never been published, so has not been peer-reviewed anywhereappears in Phytomedicine, not listed in Pubmed). I don't believe we need mention vit C as it is more than aptly covered in the paragraph above, and is better placed there anyway. --
Bob
23:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Also, Daily multivitamin and mineral supplements and selenium have each been found to reduce HIV disease progression among men and women. This could become an important low-cost intervention provided during early HIV disease to prolong the time before antiretroviral therapy is required. is better placed above, where I put it before being reverted. --
Bob
00:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
no, you may not. however, as I wrote it in the article would be what I would be ok with. -- Bob 02:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
The previous paragraph mentions multivitamins with an appropriate reference. The references you propose are BS studies that have not been proven. We should not be linking to BS studies within a treatment section, but to reviews of these studies if we are to link to anything at all. In my opinion, and it seems to be a consensus in this article for a while now, we only link to studies that have been proven in proper clinical trials. You may have observed the removal of many so-called miracle cures from this article over the past year, the latest Iranian herbal remedy as a recent example. Finally, my reasoning for placing them above is that, in some cases, they have proved promising in proper clinical trials and read better there as well, instead of after a bit about PCP and toxoplasmosis -- Bob 02:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Coppertwig, my no was referring to your version of the last sentence. I didn't bother replying to your continued assumptions as I thought it was more than obvious, but hey probably not. I agree with JoeSmack and reaffirm the validity of None of these treatments have been proven in controlled trials to have any effect in treating HIV or AIDS.. Some papers state that there is an effect, but these are not properly controlled and do not hold widespread support. The current statement upholds the current medical opinion. I object to the changing of the last sentence. Clear enough now? On another note, I now see why you wish to include vitamin studies within this paragraph, as the uninformed reader may believe that there is a link between all the alternative treatments... Yet another reason to keep them apart in the position where I put them before being reverted. -- Bob 07:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Lab studies: vitamin C inhibits HIV
"Prolonged exposure of virus (37 degrees C for 4 days) in the presence of ascorbate (100-150 micrograms/ml) resulted in the drop by a factor of 3-14 in RT activity as compared to a reduction by a factor of 25-172 in extracellular RT released from chronically infected cells. These results indicate that ascorbate mediates an anti-HIV effect by diminishing viral protein production in infected cells and RT stability in extracellular virions."
Harakeh S, Jariwalla R, Pauling L (1990). "Suppression of human immunodeficiency virus replication by ascorbate in chronically and acutely infected cells". Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 87 (18): 7245–9.
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"Ca-ascorbate reduced extracellular HIV reverse transcriptase (RT) activity by about the same magnitude as the equivalent dose of AA [ascorbic acid]. Long-term experiments showed that continuous presence of ascorbate was necessary for HIV suppression. ... These results further support the potent antiviral activity of ascorbate and suggest its therapeutic value in controlling HIV infection in combination with thiols. " [9]
Clinical studies: micronutrients and AIDS
"RESULTS: Development of deficiency of vitamin A or vitamin B12 was associated with a decline in CD4 cell count (P = 0.0255 and 0.0377, respectively), while normalization of vitamin A, vitamin B12 and zinc was associated with higher CD4 cell counts (P = 0.0492, 0.0061 and 0.0112, respectively). These findings were largely unaffected by zidovudine use. For vitamin B12, low baseline status significantly predicted accelerated HIV-1 disease progression determined by CD4 cell count (P = 0.041) and the AIDS index (P = 0.005). CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that micronutrient deficiencies are associated with HIV-1 disease progression and raise the possibility that normalization might increase symptom-free survival." [10]
"The death rate was lower in the micronutrients arm with the mortality hazard ratios [95% confidence interval (CI)] of 0.53 (0.22-1.25; P = 0.1) overall and 0.37 (0.13-1.06; P = 0.052) and 0.26 (0.07-0.97; P = 0.03) among those with CD4 cell counts < 200 x 10(6)/l and < 100 x 10(6)/l respectively. There was no impact on CD4 cell count or plasma viral load. CONCLUSIONS: Multiple micronutrient supplementation may enhance the survival of HIV-infected individuals with CD4 cell counts < 200 x 10(6)/l. ..." [11]
Adequately reviewed in the paper currently cited along with the statement multivitamin. And just a side issue, what happens in a culture dish is far from what happens in vivo in many cases. --
Bob
07:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I do. If we are to change it, and I suppose that Coppertwig won't stop until we do (not a personal attack, just an observation), why don't we change it to the exact wording of the Mills et al article? ie. Despite the widespread use of complementary and alternative medicine by people living with HIV/AIDS, the effectiveness of these therapies has not been established. This way we do not cherrypick the parts that we wish to include to support a specific POV, but something which has been peer removed, nor do we twist the words to mean something that they don't mean. I cannot see any valid objection to this. It states the facts as is.
On the subject of boxwood, I would be under the impression that boxwood therapy, published in the well renowned journal of phytomedicine and reviewed in another, as herbal and flower remedies. Place the reference there to the great journal of phytomedicine or whatever it was. -- Bob 01:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Something I do believe that needs to be added to this section is the fact that one such vitamin/mineral regimen, KPAX: http://www.k-pax.us ,has been approved by and can now be paid for by NY State ADAP: http://www.k-pax.us/downloads/ADAP_doc_info.pdf . Not sure how to "state this" without it sounding like some kind of endorsement, but it does lend more weight to the whole "Alternative Therapies" debate especially those involving vitamins/minerals. — ZacWolf 13:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Why has there not been any focus on the supposed discoverer of the virus , Dr Robert C Gallo. In 1975 he was working on Leukemia in context of retroviruses. And he holds 79 medical patents relating to Aids medical treatment. Conflict of interest? Also where is the issue over the Reagan administration in the early 80's who actively helped to create the term "Aids" They also helped Gallo with his patents. A LOT of material needs to be added here.-- Redblossom 23:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The fact that AIDS was originally referred to as GRID and the reason the name was subsequently changed is mentioned 3 times in the article; that's approximately 2 times more than necessary. If subsequent mention is needed it can be expressed as a short phrase such as "Originally dubbed GRID, ..." below, rather restated as a sentence. If possible two of the three similar stories can be simply edited away. Here I'm simply trying to reduce repetition; expanding one of the three versions with more detail can also be OK.
Under "CDC classification system for HIV infection":
Under "Origin of HIV" it says:
Under "HIV and AIDS misconceptions" it says:
Any objections to my editing two of these down? Should I present the proposed edits here first? If someone else wants to go ahead and do it that's OK with me, too. -- Coppertwig 03:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
DONE. User Grcampbell (Bob) deleted the redundant information in the misconceptions section, (thanks, Bob), and I cut down the other two sections, trying to retain one copy of any significant information; I moved the mention of the year 1982 into the CDC section. -- Coppertwig 01:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I know that it's not a widely accepted belief but a small group of people, namely white South Africans have taken to the belief that God sent it and maybe this theory should be included? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.27.56.178 ( talk) 21:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC).
I believe there is already another page that contains the less reputable theories related to the origin of AIDS-- Thomascartwright 17:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
This proposal came out of the "Alternative treatment" discussion above. The proposal is to create a new page "Treatment of HIV/AIDS", and move the content of the "Treatment" section of this (AIDS) page onto it, and also move and merge the content of the "Treatment" section of the HIV page onto it. On the AIDS page and on the HIV page, a short (few paragraphs) summary will remain along with a link to the new page. See Wikipedia:Summary style. Advantages of creating the new page:
I'll also put a note on the HIV talk page, directing discussion here. Comments? -- Coppertwig 05:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Over the course of about 2 years I have heard reports that the cure for completely eliminating AIDS has been found. Paul Harvy News was the first I heard of this. Then I also read from BBC a article about the cure however it was deleted shortly after. CNN has never had a article to my knowlege of such a issue. My friends say it might be a Hush Hush thing that the US governmet is doing. However I have to know. Can anyone besides me and my friends and a couple of people from around my town, verify that the cure has been found??
thanks Maverick423 21:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
There IS a cure for AIDS - it was patented in the US in 1997. Why does the article make no mention of this?? Surely this is something that we should know?! The cure is called "Method of curing AIDS with tetrasilver tetroxide molecular crystal devices" and was patented by Marvin S. Antelman. Go to the United States Patent and Trademark Office Database ( http://patft.uspto.gov/) and search for Patent Number 5676977 - there are the details. The claims made in the patent have not been investigated by any mainstream scientific body, but the treatment was tried by Boyd Graves, a lawyer and AIDS activist ( http://www.boydgraves.com) who says he has proof that AIDS was a result of the US Government's "Special Virus Cancer Program" and is trying to take the Government to court - he now claims he is sympton free and physically fine.
201.247.123.183 15:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
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A couple of issues; the first reference/point ("used to treat AIDS with good preliminary clinical results") is an entirely anecdotal paper from Medical Hypotheses from 1984 (3 strikes?). Second, vitamin C wasn't "shown to reduce viral load" in Allard's paper; there was a trend toward lower viral load (p=0.1) which did not reach the standard criteria for statistical significance. You may as well note that the vitamin C group had more infections than the placebo group (9 vs. 7) - also a "trend" which did not reach statistical significance. I'm not sure of the source for the final claim (that people with AIDS can tolerate higher doses of vitamin C). I understand no large-scale clinical trials of high-dose vitamin C have been done, but Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs; it's more a place to report on the studies that have been done. I do think something about the 2004 multivitamin study ( PMID 15229304) should be included under treatment, both because of its relevance and because its findings are so often misrepresented. MastCell 05:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Wow i didnt know there were so many versions of this. hopfully we get the cure soon. well like i said i heard on the radio that the source of the cure was found on the secretions of a toad in south africa or something like that. I guess that was a little to good to be true. In anyways Thanks much for all the feed back! and feel free to continue i like hearing the diffrent points of views and researches. Maverick423 18:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
"...use of dirty needles by public health services was the main cause of transmission in the study period, with sexual transmission accounting for just 30% of infections." [1]
It is also known that that poor medical practice accounts for many infections in the underdeveloped parts in China too. [2]
I know the UN has rejected many of these reports in Africa. [3] But I still think its important that this discrepancy gets some discussion, and if it has already then I am sorry for missing it. But this is something that needs to be addressed if it has any truth to it. -- JonM 14:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I heard that if one drinks two liters of someone's HIV-positive saliva they might get infected, is that possible? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bob diablo ( talk • contribs) 02:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC).
What about a drop of saliva on a open wound would that infect? Maverick423 15:08, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
The problem as far as oral infection is not with saliva, but with semen, vaginal discharges, milk or blood coming into contact with a torn mucous membrane due to tooth injury, gum abbrassion, retracting gums and things like that. Get two people with poor gum health to kiss deeply for an extended period, and there is real risk of infection. 88.152.19.206 23:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, high doses of vitamin C cause diarrhea, one of the things that leads to HIV wasting and AIDS. Great idea... -- Bob 01:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
The footnotes are not displaying correctly. In the last paragraph of the Treatment section are two references to an article with author Saltmarsh and title "Voodo or Valid?", but this article does not display in the list of references. I've tried with two different browsers. It appears as footnote 93, but footnote 93 display as a different article. Perhaps there is no superscript for footnote 94. -- Coppertwig 03:20, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMOD Could this be a possible cure? I just stumbled upon 2 minutes ago. If so, then the treatment paragraph should be changed. Or atleast give this IMOD as a possible cure. -- 63.170.80.2 21:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC) It hasn't been properly tested.
Many scientists and their dogs are coming up with cures, yet these are not properly scrutinised and/or tested. Until we are sure that it helps, we shouldn't add it in. -- Bob 22:12, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
At "Draft alternative treatment paragraph" above, I suggest moving the two sentences about vitamin supplements from the end of one paragraph to the beginning of the next paragraph. The positioning of these two sentences is under discussion, along with the rest of the draft paragraph, and this issue is not yet resolved. Please do not move these sentences to any other position, or make any other changes to the section under discussion (last paragraph of Treatment section plus last two sentences of second-last paragraph) until consensus has been reached.
Please discuss on the Talk page. As Joe Smack said above, "...it is a better idea to post the new source here instead of the article and dealing with a second revert and raised temperatures of editors.". -- Coppertwig 00:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
The section you have flagged was not originally part of the discussion, yet you have included it now. There is no real discussion taking place here. A discussion would involve people talking about it. The only thing I see here is an insistence of the inclusion of a POV. Namely vitamin C research which has not been clinically proven. I have tried discussing this with you, yet you are apparently unable to see the facts of the matter as published in the article written by Mills et al and others. Furthermore you only revert the parts that are not in agreement with your POV. If you wish to have a discussion take the matter to the wikiproject medicine and ask them to review your facts and theories and ask the other doctors who contribute to articles whether or not biased, unproven research deserves a place within this heavily read article. I, for one, do not wish to see this article degenerate into the piece of trash that it was just over a year ago. A lot of hard work was carried out by many contributors to get this article to FA status. Insistence on the inclusion of quackery will only lead to it being delisted. Is this what we want? -- Bob 00:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I apologize if I accidentally misplaced a ref tag or something while reverting and I thank you for discussing here rather than carrying on an edit war.
And thank you, Bob, for catching and fixing that extra ref tag.
Although the positioning of the last two sentences of the second-last paragraph of the treatment section was not part of the discussion at the beginning of the "Alternative treatment" discussion, it has been part of the discussion there since January 28, when I proposed moving these sentences to the beginning of a paragraph for the purpose of increasing their prominence. -- Coppertwig 00:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
This part belongs in the article, and I put "claims" exactly because it has not yet been shown or proven... Azerbaijani 00:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
people,
It's not a "cure". That's a mistranslation, and/or misquote. It's more of a treatment. For those of you who can read the original reports, see here as an example: [4]. The Minsiter even says it is meant as a "supplementary treatment to fight AIDS by boosting the immune system against the virus". [5]. The treatment is being registered by the EU, according to the ministry. [6]. It is in the stages of marketing for treating Iran's AIDS victims. [7] So it's pointless to discuss the authenticity of the treatment while it is already in use in a country of 75 million.-- Zereshk 19:36, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
(Unindent) Yes. MastCell 21:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
well guys lets keep our fingers crossed that this experiment works this time. Maverick423 18:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6342575.stm
Also since this is recent information should we add this to the article or something?? Maverick423 18:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Darn then i guess we have to wait 4 years before we can acctually write about this then eh and thats assuming it works.
Maverick423
18:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
well i can try i have never written an article on news before like that =) ill try then Maverick423 14:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
http://aidsmap.com/en/docs/E3532777-3437-436E-8CD6-58C26BE9A49C.asp Orpingtonian 21:46, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
The introduction says that "AIDS... is caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)". But towards the end of the article there is a reference to "Alternative Hypotheses" where it is made clear that this is still debated among a (very small) number of scientists. This makes it look like Wikipedia is taking sides in this debate. I suggest either the "Alternative Hypotheses" section is removed entirely or else the introduction is amended to say something along the lines of...
"AIDS... is widely believed to be caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)."
The Alternative Hypotheses have either been debunked or they have not. The introduction as it stands seems to say that they have been. And if they have been debunked then why include them in the article at all? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hne123 ( talk • contribs) 16:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
correct me if im wrong but i think aids is caused from HIV. HIV is the immune diffciancy and AIDS is the advanced state of the diffciancy. Maverick423 18:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Please re-read my entry. I am referring to the minority of scientists who question the link between HIV and AIDS. They are either disproved or nthey are not. Hne123 08:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
There is no REAL problem here. This is the best we can do with the POV pushers of the extreme minority view. -- Bob 01:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
ok guys i have a question here
as we recall on a earlier conversation about saliva and infection. 2 liters of saliva isnt enough to get infected if ingested orally. in the same note it is more probable to get infected through a wound. meaning the mouth and digestive system might be stronger to the threat of aids. however breastmilk when ingested can give a child the virus. what is the diffrence between these if they are both ingested orally? yes i read the article but i cant seem to find it anywere Maverick423 18:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
oh i see great info =) Maverick423 18:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Dose anyone know if aids research money raised by charity or given out by governments ever goes to drug companies or dose it all go to researchers in university's. If some of the money dose go to a drug company dose that change the company's patent on new drugs? Maybe this is a question for an IP lawyer but any answers or links are appreciated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.219.159.72 ( talk) 18:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
How long do you survive with retroviral drugs after the diagnosis of aids is made? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.167.243.90 ( talk • contribs).
- 5 years?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.167.241.183 ( talk • contribs).
the most i heard of a person surviving is 8 years. cant confirm this though sorry Maverick423 19:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
It can depend on a number of factors, age, weight, host and viral genetics, regime prescribed, adherence etc etc etc. Taking an average is difficult when talking about survival after treatment starts. Even more so than estimating life expectancy without HAART. -- Bob 02:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Do you think that future treatments will allow people to live a normal lifespan?
A recent Danish study [Lohse N et al. Survival of persons with and without HIV infection in Denmark, 1995-2005. Annals of Internal Medicine:146: 87-95, 2007.] has suggested that in settings where there is easy and FREE access to care and HIV medication (commenced at 250 cells/mm3), a young adult diagnosed with HIV - but without HCV - has an estimated median survival rate of MORE than 35 years (getting better with every year that passes) and that, whilst this is still 10 years short of general life expectancy, death is now unlikely to be directly related to HIV. In the United Kingdom, most people newly diagnosed with HIV are told to expect a near normal lifespan, similar to that of anyone now in remission from the likes of cancer (if they are sensible) Orpingtonian 11:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Re: footnotes 122 and 123, just a quibble but important to those of us pursuing history and origins.
The presence of AIDS in in a blood sample from an adult male in Kinshasa, Zaire (then Leopoldville, Belgian Congo)in 1959 has not been independently confirmed. The virus was found using some of the early testing methods, which produced false positives due to the so-called "sticky sera" problem. Also, there are strong suggestions that the individual may have had G6PD deficiency, as well as possibly suffering from malarial-induced anemia.
See:
Williams, G. Stretton, T.B. Leonard, J.C. "AIDS in 1959?"Lancet1983: 1136 (link at http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/David_Ho_Paper_Nature_Rebuttal.html
Balter, Michael. "Virus from 1959 Sample Marks Early years of HIV".Science. 1998: 279:801.
The other famous case from 1959-60, that of the "Manchester sailor," was of course refuted by Dr David Ho in 1993. See "How scientists discovered false evidence on the world's "first AIDS victim,"" Steve Connor, Science Correspondent, The Independent (INDT), London, March 24, 1995 (link at: http://www.aegis.com/news/misc/1995/IN950301.html)
As for the first AIDS case in the US, researchers at Tulane in 1988 were able to isolate antibodies to a virus closely resembling AIDS from autopsy specimens preserved since 1969. The victim, a teenaged black male from the Midwest, had died after a 16-month illness bearing many similarities to modern AIDS. The timing of the patient's illness and death (his illness dated to 1968, though the actual date of infection could not be determined), his apparent lack of risk factors associated with the current epidemic, and small differences in histology suggest that his case cannot be considered as among the progenitors of the present epidemic (his doctors believed that he had sexual behavior risk factors, but could not confirm their suspicions through interviews with the patient and his family). However, this case does serve to refute origin theories suggesting the virus emerged "suddenly" or "all at once" in the late 1970s/early 1980s.
See: R. F. Garry, M. H. Witte, A. A. Gottlieb, M. Elvin-Lewis, M. S. Gottlieb, C. L. Witte, S. S. Alexander, W. R. Cole and W. L. Drake Jr Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Tulane University School of Medicine, New Orleans, LA 70112; JAMA, October 14, 1988, vol. 260, p. 2085 (link at: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/260/14/2085)
stacie dotson Staciedotson 08:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I seen that someone recommended this for deletion and I agree, it's too jumbled up or too long. I wish the article had a rumors section so we can see some of the myths and evolution. Also, if it was out since 1981, why wasn't there any songs about it and why did it not get mention till the 1990s although The Blob had condoms for random reasons. 74.195.3.199 17:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Whilst the CDC classification would appear to be correct as stated, the accompanying text does actually use some unfortunate wording that gives a somewhat incorrect impression of the real state of affairs in the devloped world.
1: Most “devloped countries” do NOT use the CDC classification. Almost all developed countries used the WHO disease staging system.
2: In most “developed countries”, AIDS is ONLY diagnosed with the onset of AIDS defining illnesses (Stage II on the WHO staging system).
3: In most “developed countries”, a CD4 cell count below 200 cells/mm3 does NOT trigger an automatic AIDS diagnosis.
4: In most "developed countries", the AIDS diagnosis does NOT stand when AIDS-defining illnesses have been cured.
Most “developed countries” regard the CDC classifications as arcane and prejudicial .. and very far from setting a gold standard.
I would like to suggest that this section of the article be modified to remove this false impression. Orpingtonian 11:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Arcane and prejudical (and leading to stigmatisaion) are the exact reason why the European definition is there .. and why it is NOT identical to the CDC definition anywhere where it refers to CD4 cell counts (not just one singular place). I refer Trezatium to both UK guidelines and the European definitions as clear examples stating that the AIDS diagnosis does NOT stand when AIDS-defining illnesses have been cured.
I am not asking for the "arcane and prejudical" statement to be included (it would serve no purpose) .. simply that the wording "The majority of new AIDS cases in developed countries use either this definition or the pre-1993 CDC definition." be changed, so as to remove the four wholly incorrect conclusions that would be drawn from it.
Does anyone (not just Trezatium) have any credible reference to support the notion that an AIDS diagnosis still stands in most countries, even when the illness(es) that lead to the diagnosis have been cured? I very much doubt it. Orpingtonian 12:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I think your suggested edit is perfectly fair; but I still think that “The AIDS diagnosis still stands even if, after treatment, the CD4+ T cell count rises to above 200 per µL of blood or other AIDS-defining illnesses are cured” needs to be clarified and moved futher up the paragraph, so that it comes before your suggested revision.
The reason that European surveillance reports tend not to include such data is that it is no longer considered particularly relevant and that there is a concerted effort to avoid stigmatising people (most of whom, in the devloped world, will ever die of an AIDS defining illness) with a diagnosis that pleases reporting, but doesn’t reflect their curent state of health. As individuals (not numbers), people in Europe are only regarded as having AIDS if they are CURRENTLY suffering from an AIDS defining illness. Whilst HIV can't be cured; AIDS is certainly reversable in most people .. even in those who are diagnosed very late and well beyond the point at which the CDC classifications would label them as suffering from AIDS.
You'll have to forgive the activist in me. Orpingtonian 13:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I suggest a rewrite of the "Diagnosis" section, mainly based on this article. Trezatium 14:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I think that the rewritten Diagnosis section should do the following:
Trezatium 22:23, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Where do you go about getting tested for HIV? and is there a home test kit? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.167.240.144 ( talk • contribs).
i posted this about a cure for aids derived from frogs that i heard on paul harvy *im sure some of you remember* anyways i was only able to find a very small refreance to it here http://www.howstuffworks.com/bye-bye-kermie.htm
it is stated on the very bottom of the article i think on the 3rd to the last paragraph. if i can find more on it i think it might be worth noting on the article? user:maverick423
My understanding of "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" is that Wikipedia shouldn't be on the breaking edge of untested, difficult-to-verify scientific claims. Hence, also, the WP:RS injunction to "Avoid citing the popular press on scientific matters." The same thing comes up at cancer - every time a tumor shrinks in a rat somewhere, there's talk of adding a long section to the cancer article about the new "cure". In general, it's best to wait until things are actually tested in humans and reported in the scientific literature. Science and research will go on regardless, and it will keep these articles from becoming a mishmash of unverified claims. MastCell 17:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
can a man be infected by going down on a woman and lickin her outStrike-through text —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
203.214.97.7 (
talk)
12:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC).
VAGINA? no.
Jackrobinson9517
09:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Proposed edit to fourth and fifth paragraph of Treatment section:
-- Coppertwig 01:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Surely there should be a prognosis section? Including expected lifetimes and effects of treatment? Thedreamdied 11:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't this page semi-protected, it's highly vandalized, and it continues to be. If this is just a way of catching vandals or something, that's weird.
Blind
man
shady
02:56, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't it bother anyone that this article acts as though there is no correlation between homosexual contact and AIDS? The facts about the rate of HIV among homosexuals can still be presented without passing any kind of judgment on homosexuals. Chicken Wing 22:46, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it's easier to contract HIV from anal intercourse - see the large table in the article, which contains relative risks of various routes (blood transfusion, needle-sharing, sexual practices, etc). I don't see a coverup or a "blatant bias" here. Mentioning that HIV disproportionately affects the homosexual community in the West isn't evidence of bias. However, focusing stridently on it may make people wonder. MastCell Talk 02:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
This is the paragraph I propose:
In developed countries AIDS is most prevalent among homosexual and bisexual males who have sexual intercourse with other males.1 In the United States men who have sex with men (MSM) accounted for 56.8 percent of new HIV infections in 2003.2 In fact, infection rates have stabilized in the West among the general population while in the gay population rates have increased.3 The reasons for this are that homosexual and bisexual men as a whole have more sex partners, have more unprotected sex, and because engaging in receptive anal intercourse carries a higher risk than other forms of penetrative sex.4 Despite over two decades of sex education targeted to the gay community, the incidence of HIV is still going up.5 In inner-city Sydney, Australia along with other major Western cities, AIDS statistics among homosexual males are “comparable to an AIDS-ravaged African nation.”6 Critics charge that political correctness has led to the association of MSM and HIV being downplayed.7
It's not perfect, but it's a start. It can be expanded and have more sources added to it if need be. The article itself is so long that it would take me a while to go through and find all the things that are perhaps a little dubious, but it's a task that probably needs to be done. Chicken Wing 06:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm curently writing a book, and I'm anal about keeping all story elements accurate, and the question rose , if a person already has Cancer, then conatracts AIDs, will the AIDs cause the current Cancer to worsen at an accellerated rate? I've spent hours on multiple Wikipedia AIDs pages, and I've found much information about contracting AIDs, then Cancer, though none about the other way around. I would very much appreciate any information on this subject on that you have. - unsigned
That above article contains a hyperlink to Mr Fumento's web page. There is a lot of pertinent imformation about aids on that website. I am currently attempting to get wikipedia to add that hyperlink to the main article. Please feel free to contact me and give me your oppinion on this matter. Randy Bugger 12:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Is AIDS being over funded at at the expense of other equally worthy charities ? Michael Fumento seems to think so. Unfortunately I cannot include the hyperlink(s) in question in this DISCUSSION space without risking being BLOCKED from editing wikipedia. This will probably change in the days and weeks to come as cooler heads (including mine) begin to prevail. Randy Bugger 09:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I am a wikipedia neophyte. There is no question about that. I was however very concerned when I noticed that the main article didn't have much if anything to say about homosexuality and aids. Today I noticed that a user named "chicken wing" is proposing a change to the main article that would address these concerns. I also noticed that he is being taken seriously by at least 2 wikipedia pundits. It is my contention that if people such as "chicken wing" had easy access to the Michael Fumento page they would find the task of convincing the aforementioned pundits that there is in fact ample evidence to support the notion that their is a strong correlation between homosexuality and aids. Mr Fumento has been arguing that very argument for years. Perhaps the time has come to email Mr Fumento himself and ask him to reveal his sources. Randy Bugger 08:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps the word Receptive Anal Intercourse should be used in place of any reference to Homosexuality in general. That would make the task of editing a whole lot simpler. Gays and the gay life style are not to blame. It isn't useful to blame anyone. Randy Bugger 10:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Do do you think that a chart and or section on aids funding since its onset is a good idea. It is pertinent to the main article and I am surprised that one does not exist already. I think it should be done with discretion. It would also help negate any reasonable objection(s) from aids dissidents. Moses Weintraub 09:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I may do that in time. I am presently looking for such a chart and may have to create one from scratch. I am fairly ignorant of WIKI copyright policy pursuant to charts and graphs. Moses Weintraub 07:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't see any kind of chart or summary of the demographic breakdown of the infected population, i.e., a breakdown of victims by ethnicity, by gender, by age, by sexual preference, by income, by education, etc. The "Estimated per act risk for acquisition of HIV by exposure route" table in the "Transmission and prevention" section displays quite well the infection risks for particular behaviors, but I'm looking for a categorization of people already infected based on multiple criteria. It may be that some of this info is in the article, but it is not presented as a section by itself. — Loadmaster 18:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
It's possible, albiet very rare, for HIV to be transmitted by organ transplant. Since it is technically possible, perhaps it should be added to the list [18]. 68.116.112.32 23:37, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Why are there (almost) no links to sister wikiprojects? Is this on purpose? -- Eleassar my talk 14:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
What about Commons and Wiktionary? -- Eleassar my talk 15:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I've added them now. -- Eleassar my talk 16:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I asked about these links and as there was no useful answer, I have added them. Wikipedia encourages links to sister projects and interlanguage links when possible ( WP:SISTER#Guidelines). You are free to remove them. The Wikiquote entry is a shame indeed, the link to wiktionary has been fixed to point to the right place and the links to Wikinews and Commons that offer free news and free images (see also commons:category:AIDS) are quite useful. Much more useful than just one link to Wikinews that was there before. -- Eleassar my talk 21:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Is it possible to add a link to the Wiki article for FightAIDS@Home? I think it would be a valuable addition, provided it was in the proper place. 23:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Moved from the article:
This paper seems to be controversial, to say the least. From Nature, vol 447, 28 June 2007, pp1040-1. To quote one comment: "The paper is total drivel, it should have been picked up in the review process," claims Tim Farley, an official in the World Health Organization’s HIV-prevention team in Geneva. "And coming from PLoS One gives [the views in the press release] a public perception of validity. In public health there are severe dangers in such stuff getting through."
It seemed best to simply remove it, as documenting arguments for and against one paper is somewhat tangential... Jakew 18:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
German scientists find a way to kill the virus inside infected cells: German newspapers and science write it:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/316/5833/1912 212.95.99.39 09:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
http://aids.gov/ Access to information on Federal HIV/AIDS prevention, testing, treatment, and research programs, policies, and resources.
http://hivtest.org/ Find an HIV testing site near you.
19:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Another proposal
National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health's Bloodborne Infectious Diseases Page where users can find info on needlestick and sharps injuries, universal precautions, research, regulations, legislation, etc. -- Tisdalepardi 20:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I suggest AIDSPortal. Covers research, case studies and policy information. Also has contact information for people and organisations running HIV programmes in developing countries and new resources that they share through the site. Useful resource for anyone interested in HIV and AIDS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aids information ( talk • contribs) 14:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
BBC NEWS reported -
World 'losing fight against Aids'
Dr Fauci says there must be greater effort to boost prevention The world is losing the battle against HIV/Aids, US President George W Bush's top adviser on the virus has said. Dr Anthony Fauci told a conference in Sydney that progress had been made but more people were being infected with HIV than were being treated.
-- Florentino floro 05:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
How would one know that donated blood is contaminated of H I V if blood is donated with in safe period-- Vijaypandey 14:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Skypher is right: these are weasel words: "These claims are considered baseless by the vast majority of the scientific community. The medical community argues that so-called "AIDS dissidents" selectively ignore evidence in favor of HIV's role in AIDS and irresponsibly pose a threat to public health by discouraging HIV testing and proven treatments.". I was surprised to find that the two footnotes attached to these sentences do not purport to establish a scientific consensus in favour of the HIV/AIDS theory. Rather, they contain quotes by people who do not believe that HIV causes AIDS. Relevant footnotes (at least) are required (or directing the reader to another section of the article perhaps for verification?) Or, if the required information is contained somewhere within the cited articles (I didn't read the whole things) then maybe the footnote needs to contain a quote. -- Coppertwig 13:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for finding those references, MastCell. Well done. I would just like to point out that references number 139 and 141 (the first and 3rd of 5 references listed) seem to be pointing to essentially the same article (Duesberg phenomenon) and should probably be combined into one (or further distinguished from each other somehow, if they are intended to mean different articles in the same group of articles in a periodical.) Thanks. -- Coppertwig 17:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
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