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This article is filled with dubious information, misinformation, and what could only be calles special pleading. Hollywood was not named by Whitley. It was named by HH and Daeida Wilcox. The title 'father of Hollywood' does not appear in the Los Angeles Times until Whitley's death except in advertisements for his own company. Since his partners were H.G.Otis and Harry Chandler, the owner and editor of the Times, his self-promotion also seems to have had journalistic supporters. The big problem is the erasure of the Wilcoxes from Hollywood history. Wilcox's 1887 grid map is clearly called Hollywood. Whitley certainly had a role in Hollywood's early history, but not what this article claims. Instead of an area with just farms and gardens, for example, the Hollywood of the Wilcoxes had mansions and other tourist sites.Some of these comments also apply to the Hollywood article, where Whitley's role a la this article is repeated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oxfan ( talk • contribs) 23:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
What grid map are you referring to?` Most people falsely believe that an advertisement publish after Harvey Wilsox's death was the one he recorded in 1887 at the Los Angeles Recorder Office. It is not. The Hollywood Hotel was not built until 1902 and Wilcox died in 1891. In 1891 Hollywood was farm land. Mr. Wilcox did not built any building in Hollywood while he was alive. If you look closely at the map I believe you are referencing to you will see that street names are incorrect and the location of the hotel was not on Wilcox land. The Hollywood Hotel was built on the corner of Prospect Boulevard (currently Hollywood Blvd) and Highland. It was part of the 500 acres that H J Whitley owned. It is sad that an advertisement with incorrect information is considered a legal recorded document when it is not. I hope you will look at the map again and see that what I state is true. It is sad that people are now altering history rather than researching to learn the truth. Then others use their misinformation as a reference and perpetuate the lie. If you go to the Los Angeles Library you can obtain the entire archives of the Los Angels Times. There are numerous articles dating back to the early 1900's. There were also articles in the American historical society book, Hollywood Daily Citizen, and Examiner. William Mulholland's daughter wrote two historical books published by University Press that pertain to HJ Whitley's life and his title as "Father of Hollywood." http://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/media_Room.shtml Hope this information is helpful to you. Whithj ( talk) 05:46, 23 June 2010 (UTC)whithj
The map that almost everyone references way not made in 1887. It was part of an advertising booklet that was distributed by Mrs. Wilcox second husband Mr. Beveridge. I have been to the Los Angeles County Recorders office and view the documents. In fact on my site I have a copy of the deed I purchased many years ago from that Office. I wanted the original information not a self published document. Once again why are you doing this? What is your interest? I have orginal documents about the naming of Hollywood. They are over 100 years old. They are accurate. It is now interesting that you are attacking the Los Angeles Times. I thought they are a source that can be used? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 17:50, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
It appears that the main source for this article is The father of Hollywood : the true story by Gaelyn Whitley Keith, BookSurge, 2006. [1] BookSurge is what used to be called a "vanity press". Unfortunately, such publications do not meet Wikipedia's standards for references. See WP:SPS. It's OK to leave the book as a "further reading" item, but we should not cite it or depend on it for any material. If the author of the book, apparently related to the subject, gives a worthwhile opinion of the subject then we could use the book as the source for that view. Something like "According to Keith, his grandfather was the most ..." Otherwise it looks like this article will probably have to depend on L.A. Times articles. Those aren't ideal either, since its publisher was another real estate developer and known for mixing his business interests in with the editing of the paper. We should use contemporary L.A. Times sources with a little caution. Will Beback talk 02:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
It is interesting that you question my sources yet I do not see you question anyone else. There are no references provided by anyone else. HJ Whitley is mentioned in many publication during his life time example: Los Angeles from the mountains to the sea: with selected biography ..., Volume 3 By John Steven McGroarty 1921. What references are you using for your information on Hollywood? Whithj ( talk) 03:58, 21 June 2010 (UTC)whithj
I am not having trouble finding good sources. I am old and slow but I know the history of Hollywood. Many of the books today reference a self-published book by a Dr. Palmer. He did not write the book until 1936 and he self-published it. I own a copy of the book. In the front of the book he states that he might have some history wrong and he does. Just because a book is published it does not mean that the publisher has verified the truth in the book. What parts about the history of HJ Whitley are you questioning. Perhaps I can give you sources that will help if I know what you are questioning. Please look at http://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/media_Room.shtml and see the sources. There will be more added as time permits. The book is no longer self-published. It is being picked up by a publisher to be released August 2010. whithj —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whithj ( talk • contribs) 06:37, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
My daughter was nice enough to take a trip to the Los Angeles Library to get some articles from the Los Angeles Times Archives. I think there are at least 30 so far on http://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/media_Room.shtml. I believe you asked if I needed help. Maybe you could add links to the articles on her website that reference the articles. That would be really helpful to me. All this computer programing is hard at 86. Then people could review the articles to see the history of Hollywood. whithj —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whithj ( talk • contribs) 07:11, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
A cite now reads:
{{
cite news}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help)The quote originally included in the footnote is arguably short enough to satisfy fair use provisions. However, given the existence of a notice, "Reproduced with permission of the copyright owner. Further reproduction or distribution is prohibited without permission." which immediately follows the entire text which was reproduced in the quote, plus noting that the claim the footnote supports, does not appears to be an opinion needing an exact quote for contest, or ambiguity of fact, for which an exact quote may provide necessary explanatory power, I have chosen to remove the quote from the footnote.-- SPhilbrick (Talk) 23:30, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The consensus in this RfC is summarized by Wugapodes' comment:
The problem it seems to me is not whether these manuscripts are published (they indisputably are), but whether the citation is to the published version or the personal holdings of an editor. If the personal holdings of an editor, that's obviously unacceptable. And even a citation to the holdings in general is not enough. The citation must be to the exact object being cited, and so must include the identification number issued to each item by the library (this is, in fact, the collection's recommended way of citing the material). So in theory, I support the use of the UCLA archive because it meets all of our sourcing policies. However I don't support citing personal collections (not published) or citing the archives when it was a personal collection that was consulted (that's misrepresnting sources).
The information can be restored if Wugapodes' advice about a full citation can be and is followed.
User:Whitleyfamily has been adding information from Special Collections at the UCLA Library to many San Fernando Valley and Los Angeles pages citing what I consider to be WP:Original research inasmuch as it does not include a title or other information that can enable a WP reader to look up the info to see if it is really germane to the article. All of them, I think, refer to H.J. Whitley, sometimes known as the "Father of Hollywood." The user has been informed about this on his or her talk page, and now I am asking the opinion of other editors as to the legitimacy of this source. This WP:Talk page seems to be as good a place as any to discuss the matter. I will post this page as a place for discussion at a WP:Request for comment. Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 01:07, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Should the citation to the Special Collections at the UCLA Library as noted in the paragraph above be accepted as a WP: Reliable source or is it WP:Original research? Or something else entirely? Please leave your opinion as to how this matter should be handled. Thank you. BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 01:21, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I am trying to add links to news paper articles from 1931 but I am not allowed to. It is on my website and has been on Wiki for years. I have had problems before with editors that were resolved. Why does this continue. H. J Whitley was given the title "Father of Hollywood". I have been on international television, written a book on the subject and have original documents from this event. I thought the purpose of Wiki was to tell the truth. I have received no monetary gain from this. I do not hire employees to post for me. Why are new arrival editors doing this?
https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/mournFatherofHollywood.JPG
https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg
Both newspapers are no longer in existence but this does not mean the information is inaccurate. If you have another way for me to show this let me know. I do not feel the last edits were necessary as the information is historical. Don't know MrOllie Credentials but I don't feel he is an expert. It appears to me that he may have personal reasons for the attack. Whitleyhollywood 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 23:19, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
References
I am unclear why my post keep being deleted. The individual that does this is threatening and switches information with references that do not work. People do not want to join memberships and pay to get free information. I actually came back to wiki after being gone for a bit. I thought back many years ago that it was decided to leave the site alone. Why is this person suddenly trying to delete history? The sources I link to are creditable. If they only deleted one here or there maybe. But come on is the UCLA Special Collections, City of Corcoran bad references. Can you help resolve this/ Why is MrOllie dooing this? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 01:16, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Hobart Johnstone Whitley (October 7, 1847 – June 3, 1931) was a Canadian-American real estate developer best known for helping create the Hollywood subdivision in Los Angeles. On October 26, 1911 H. J. Whitley convinced the first movie studio to settle in Hollywood earning him the title "Father of Hollywood". [1] [2] Can you explain what would be wrong with posting this? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 01:19, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
References
Are these good source? If not, why? http://allanellenberger.com/tag/h-j-whitley/ https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/pdf/ManySalesByOneFirmLATimes1-10-1909.pdf https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/mournFatherofHollywood.JPG 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 18:10, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Can anyone please tell me what information is in this book and why it is a good source? https://www.worldcat.org/title/stars-of-hollywood-forever/oclc/53027487&referer=brief_results Because of my interest in Hollywood I would like to know what the book says. 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 18:14, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Is this a good reference? It is from the gravesite and reported by a source for many graves. Actually show the marker on his grave in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8612627/hobart-johnstone-whitley 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 18:19, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Once again you are wrong MrOllie. I did not write the article for the California Historian. I was contacted by the Historical Society because of Covid they were highlighting towns. They ask to use my information. I gave them permission. I would not have placed the Hollywoodland sign in the article. The first electric lit sign was Whitley Heights which I would have placed in the article if I had written it. I did not write the Cinematreasures either. I meet the author at a Hollywood Chamber function and give him permission to use the information. I did not pay him and he did not pay me. It was just done to promote the Hollywood Chamber and business in Hollywood and the movie industry of which I was not a part of. Also why would anyone want to come to Wiki and not find the information they are wanting. I have been looking at pages on Wiki. They do not have the majority of the references a place where you have to sign up for membership and pay. Are you employed by the newspaper? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 01:48, 10 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Why was this link deleted and the one that replaces it does not work. MrOllie are you trying to destroy this webpage? https://www.cityofcorcoran.com/residents/about_the_city.php This is a reliable source it is the City of Corcoran. 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 01:56, 10 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
MrOllie were you the one that posted Tony Luke Scott, The Stars of Hollywood Forever, T. Scott Publications, 2001 as a source? Can you tell me what the article said? As I said I did not write the article for them. If they choose to copy it I have no control. I did not email them an article or have any input to what they decide to publish besides allowing use of pictures that I own the copywrite for. I understand that the blog might be an issue, but not sure why. How are they different from a news or magazine article? But really an Historical Institution should not be blacklisted. Really? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 04:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 04:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up Los Angeles from the mountains to the sea : with selected biography of actors and witnesses to the period of growth and achievement by McGroarty, John Steven, 1862-
Publication date 1921 Topics Los Angeles, Los Angeles -- Biography, genealogy Publisher Chicago : American Historical Society Collection allen_county; americana Digitizing sponsor MSN Contributor Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center Language English Is there any problem with this as a reference? Aaaaaaatruth ( talk) 04:38, 10 February 2021 (UTC)Aaaaaaatruth
As a general rule, do not remove sourced information from the encyclopedia solely on the grounds that it seems biased. Instead, try to rewrite the passage or section to achieve a more neutral tone. Biased information can usually be balanced with material cited to other sources to produce a more neutral perspective, so such problems should be fixed when possible through the normal editing process. Remove material only where you have a good reason to believe it misinforms or misleads readers in ways that cannot be addressed by rewriting the passage. The sections below offer specific guidance on common problems.
Naming Policy shortcut WP:POVNAMING See also: Wikipedia:Article titles § Neutrality in article titles In some cases, the choice of name used for a topic can give an appearance of bias. While neutral terms are generally preferable, this must be balanced against clarity. If a name is widely used in reliable sources (particularly those written in English), and is therefore likely to be well recognized by readers, it may be used even though some may regard it as biased. For example, the widely used names "Boston Massacre", "Teapot Dome scandal", and "Jack the Ripper" are legitimate ways of referring to the subjects in question, even though they may appear to pass judgment. The best name to use for a topic may depend on the context in which it is mentioned; it may be appropriate to mention alternative names and the controversies over their use, particularly when the topic in question is the main topic being discussed. Whitleyhollywood ( talk) 16:57, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
I have had no response to if these are allowable sources. If I do not hear from anyone I will assume they are fine and post. After I post them please do not remove them. Editing something to make it more neutral is fine but it must remain truthful. http://allanellenberger.com/tag/h-j-whitley/ https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/pdf/ManySalesByOneFirmLATimes1-10-1909.pdf https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/mournFatherofHollywood.JPG https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up Aaaaaaatruth ( talk) 21:31, 10 February 2021 (UTC)aaaaaaatruth
So you are saying Chicago : American Historical Society is not a reliable publisher. Neither are the Los Angeles Times, Hollywood Citizen, Los Herald and New York Times. https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up Di you actually look at this source?. Its not my family writing this. I changed my name on Wiki because it was a Wiki suggestion. Still want to know if you posted Tony Luke Scott, The Stars of Hollywood Forever and is it a reliable source? What does the book say? Are the sources that are currently on the H J Whitley Wiki page all reliable? 2/10/2021? Aaaaaaatruth ( talk) 06:35, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Aaaaaaatruth'
Is this a reliable source? https://oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt658018n4/ Aaaaaaatruth ( talk) 07:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Aaaaaaatruth
If you are asking if HJ Whitley grandaughter was on Wiki. she was not. Awhile back one grandson was on Wiki but he passed away in 2013. The other grandson was never on Wiki to my knowledge. The question is not who is posting but is the information from a reliable source. If it is why aren't you posting it or anyone else for that matter? Can you give me the exact reference that says relatives are not allowed to post? Plus did you look at the Chicago: American Historical Society Link. Why is it not a reliable source.
One of HJ Whitley's grandsons did input things on Wiki but he passed away in 2013. To my knowledge his granddaughter never posted or did his other grandson. They all passed away before 2013. I think you are focusing on the wrong issue. Is this a reliable source https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up ? If not why? It was published in 1921. If it is a good source could you please post it as a reference? Also can you give me the verbiage of why a relative can not post? I would like it from Wiki? Thanks for your help. 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 18:36, 11 February 2021 (UTC)AaaaaaaTruth
No big surprise: AaaaaaaTruth and Whitleyhollywood are confirmed as Sockpuppets. Possibly ( talk) 06:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
After a recent spate of edits, it seems that Whitley's reputation as the "Father of Hollywood" has been sliced to the barest minimum in this article, mentioned but not explained very much at all. I suggest restoring the monicker to a more prominent role inasmuch as it appears to have been widely used during his lifetime and then in his obituaries. What do others think? Yours, BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 07:16, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
this article should say something like 'Whitley, along with Charles E. Toberman has been called the Father of Hollywood', and a parallel statement added to the Toberman article. Possibly ( talk) 18:40, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
I just added an early citation to this fellow as "the founder of Hollywood," from 1912. BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 06:49, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 2 August 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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This article is filled with dubious information, misinformation, and what could only be calles special pleading. Hollywood was not named by Whitley. It was named by HH and Daeida Wilcox. The title 'father of Hollywood' does not appear in the Los Angeles Times until Whitley's death except in advertisements for his own company. Since his partners were H.G.Otis and Harry Chandler, the owner and editor of the Times, his self-promotion also seems to have had journalistic supporters. The big problem is the erasure of the Wilcoxes from Hollywood history. Wilcox's 1887 grid map is clearly called Hollywood. Whitley certainly had a role in Hollywood's early history, but not what this article claims. Instead of an area with just farms and gardens, for example, the Hollywood of the Wilcoxes had mansions and other tourist sites.Some of these comments also apply to the Hollywood article, where Whitley's role a la this article is repeated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oxfan ( talk • contribs) 23:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
What grid map are you referring to?` Most people falsely believe that an advertisement publish after Harvey Wilsox's death was the one he recorded in 1887 at the Los Angeles Recorder Office. It is not. The Hollywood Hotel was not built until 1902 and Wilcox died in 1891. In 1891 Hollywood was farm land. Mr. Wilcox did not built any building in Hollywood while he was alive. If you look closely at the map I believe you are referencing to you will see that street names are incorrect and the location of the hotel was not on Wilcox land. The Hollywood Hotel was built on the corner of Prospect Boulevard (currently Hollywood Blvd) and Highland. It was part of the 500 acres that H J Whitley owned. It is sad that an advertisement with incorrect information is considered a legal recorded document when it is not. I hope you will look at the map again and see that what I state is true. It is sad that people are now altering history rather than researching to learn the truth. Then others use their misinformation as a reference and perpetuate the lie. If you go to the Los Angeles Library you can obtain the entire archives of the Los Angels Times. There are numerous articles dating back to the early 1900's. There were also articles in the American historical society book, Hollywood Daily Citizen, and Examiner. William Mulholland's daughter wrote two historical books published by University Press that pertain to HJ Whitley's life and his title as "Father of Hollywood." http://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/media_Room.shtml Hope this information is helpful to you. Whithj ( talk) 05:46, 23 June 2010 (UTC)whithj
The map that almost everyone references way not made in 1887. It was part of an advertising booklet that was distributed by Mrs. Wilcox second husband Mr. Beveridge. I have been to the Los Angeles County Recorders office and view the documents. In fact on my site I have a copy of the deed I purchased many years ago from that Office. I wanted the original information not a self published document. Once again why are you doing this? What is your interest? I have orginal documents about the naming of Hollywood. They are over 100 years old. They are accurate. It is now interesting that you are attacking the Los Angeles Times. I thought they are a source that can be used? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 17:50, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
It appears that the main source for this article is The father of Hollywood : the true story by Gaelyn Whitley Keith, BookSurge, 2006. [1] BookSurge is what used to be called a "vanity press". Unfortunately, such publications do not meet Wikipedia's standards for references. See WP:SPS. It's OK to leave the book as a "further reading" item, but we should not cite it or depend on it for any material. If the author of the book, apparently related to the subject, gives a worthwhile opinion of the subject then we could use the book as the source for that view. Something like "According to Keith, his grandfather was the most ..." Otherwise it looks like this article will probably have to depend on L.A. Times articles. Those aren't ideal either, since its publisher was another real estate developer and known for mixing his business interests in with the editing of the paper. We should use contemporary L.A. Times sources with a little caution. Will Beback talk 02:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
It is interesting that you question my sources yet I do not see you question anyone else. There are no references provided by anyone else. HJ Whitley is mentioned in many publication during his life time example: Los Angeles from the mountains to the sea: with selected biography ..., Volume 3 By John Steven McGroarty 1921. What references are you using for your information on Hollywood? Whithj ( talk) 03:58, 21 June 2010 (UTC)whithj
I am not having trouble finding good sources. I am old and slow but I know the history of Hollywood. Many of the books today reference a self-published book by a Dr. Palmer. He did not write the book until 1936 and he self-published it. I own a copy of the book. In the front of the book he states that he might have some history wrong and he does. Just because a book is published it does not mean that the publisher has verified the truth in the book. What parts about the history of HJ Whitley are you questioning. Perhaps I can give you sources that will help if I know what you are questioning. Please look at http://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/media_Room.shtml and see the sources. There will be more added as time permits. The book is no longer self-published. It is being picked up by a publisher to be released August 2010. whithj —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whithj ( talk • contribs) 06:37, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
My daughter was nice enough to take a trip to the Los Angeles Library to get some articles from the Los Angeles Times Archives. I think there are at least 30 so far on http://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/media_Room.shtml. I believe you asked if I needed help. Maybe you could add links to the articles on her website that reference the articles. That would be really helpful to me. All this computer programing is hard at 86. Then people could review the articles to see the history of Hollywood. whithj —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whithj ( talk • contribs) 07:11, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
A cite now reads:
{{
cite news}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors=
(
help)The quote originally included in the footnote is arguably short enough to satisfy fair use provisions. However, given the existence of a notice, "Reproduced with permission of the copyright owner. Further reproduction or distribution is prohibited without permission." which immediately follows the entire text which was reproduced in the quote, plus noting that the claim the footnote supports, does not appears to be an opinion needing an exact quote for contest, or ambiguity of fact, for which an exact quote may provide necessary explanatory power, I have chosen to remove the quote from the footnote.-- SPhilbrick (Talk) 23:30, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The consensus in this RfC is summarized by Wugapodes' comment:
The problem it seems to me is not whether these manuscripts are published (they indisputably are), but whether the citation is to the published version or the personal holdings of an editor. If the personal holdings of an editor, that's obviously unacceptable. And even a citation to the holdings in general is not enough. The citation must be to the exact object being cited, and so must include the identification number issued to each item by the library (this is, in fact, the collection's recommended way of citing the material). So in theory, I support the use of the UCLA archive because it meets all of our sourcing policies. However I don't support citing personal collections (not published) or citing the archives when it was a personal collection that was consulted (that's misrepresnting sources).
The information can be restored if Wugapodes' advice about a full citation can be and is followed.
User:Whitleyfamily has been adding information from Special Collections at the UCLA Library to many San Fernando Valley and Los Angeles pages citing what I consider to be WP:Original research inasmuch as it does not include a title or other information that can enable a WP reader to look up the info to see if it is really germane to the article. All of them, I think, refer to H.J. Whitley, sometimes known as the "Father of Hollywood." The user has been informed about this on his or her talk page, and now I am asking the opinion of other editors as to the legitimacy of this source. This WP:Talk page seems to be as good a place as any to discuss the matter. I will post this page as a place for discussion at a WP:Request for comment. Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 01:07, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Should the citation to the Special Collections at the UCLA Library as noted in the paragraph above be accepted as a WP: Reliable source or is it WP:Original research? Or something else entirely? Please leave your opinion as to how this matter should be handled. Thank you. BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 01:21, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I am trying to add links to news paper articles from 1931 but I am not allowed to. It is on my website and has been on Wiki for years. I have had problems before with editors that were resolved. Why does this continue. H. J Whitley was given the title "Father of Hollywood". I have been on international television, written a book on the subject and have original documents from this event. I thought the purpose of Wiki was to tell the truth. I have received no monetary gain from this. I do not hire employees to post for me. Why are new arrival editors doing this?
https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/mournFatherofHollywood.JPG
https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg
Both newspapers are no longer in existence but this does not mean the information is inaccurate. If you have another way for me to show this let me know. I do not feel the last edits were necessary as the information is historical. Don't know MrOllie Credentials but I don't feel he is an expert. It appears to me that he may have personal reasons for the attack. Whitleyhollywood 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 23:19, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
References
I am unclear why my post keep being deleted. The individual that does this is threatening and switches information with references that do not work. People do not want to join memberships and pay to get free information. I actually came back to wiki after being gone for a bit. I thought back many years ago that it was decided to leave the site alone. Why is this person suddenly trying to delete history? The sources I link to are creditable. If they only deleted one here or there maybe. But come on is the UCLA Special Collections, City of Corcoran bad references. Can you help resolve this/ Why is MrOllie dooing this? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 01:16, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Hobart Johnstone Whitley (October 7, 1847 – June 3, 1931) was a Canadian-American real estate developer best known for helping create the Hollywood subdivision in Los Angeles. On October 26, 1911 H. J. Whitley convinced the first movie studio to settle in Hollywood earning him the title "Father of Hollywood". [1] [2] Can you explain what would be wrong with posting this? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 01:19, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
References
Are these good source? If not, why? http://allanellenberger.com/tag/h-j-whitley/ https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/pdf/ManySalesByOneFirmLATimes1-10-1909.pdf https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/mournFatherofHollywood.JPG 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 18:10, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Can anyone please tell me what information is in this book and why it is a good source? https://www.worldcat.org/title/stars-of-hollywood-forever/oclc/53027487&referer=brief_results Because of my interest in Hollywood I would like to know what the book says. 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 18:14, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Is this a good reference? It is from the gravesite and reported by a source for many graves. Actually show the marker on his grave in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8612627/hobart-johnstone-whitley 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 18:19, 9 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Once again you are wrong MrOllie. I did not write the article for the California Historian. I was contacted by the Historical Society because of Covid they were highlighting towns. They ask to use my information. I gave them permission. I would not have placed the Hollywoodland sign in the article. The first electric lit sign was Whitley Heights which I would have placed in the article if I had written it. I did not write the Cinematreasures either. I meet the author at a Hollywood Chamber function and give him permission to use the information. I did not pay him and he did not pay me. It was just done to promote the Hollywood Chamber and business in Hollywood and the movie industry of which I was not a part of. Also why would anyone want to come to Wiki and not find the information they are wanting. I have been looking at pages on Wiki. They do not have the majority of the references a place where you have to sign up for membership and pay. Are you employed by the newspaper? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 01:48, 10 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
Why was this link deleted and the one that replaces it does not work. MrOllie are you trying to destroy this webpage? https://www.cityofcorcoran.com/residents/about_the_city.php This is a reliable source it is the City of Corcoran. 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 01:56, 10 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood
MrOllie were you the one that posted Tony Luke Scott, The Stars of Hollywood Forever, T. Scott Publications, 2001 as a source? Can you tell me what the article said? As I said I did not write the article for them. If they choose to copy it I have no control. I did not email them an article or have any input to what they decide to publish besides allowing use of pictures that I own the copywrite for. I understand that the blog might be an issue, but not sure why. How are they different from a news or magazine article? But really an Historical Institution should not be blacklisted. Really? 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 04:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)whitleyhollywood 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 04:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up Los Angeles from the mountains to the sea : with selected biography of actors and witnesses to the period of growth and achievement by McGroarty, John Steven, 1862-
Publication date 1921 Topics Los Angeles, Los Angeles -- Biography, genealogy Publisher Chicago : American Historical Society Collection allen_county; americana Digitizing sponsor MSN Contributor Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center Language English Is there any problem with this as a reference? Aaaaaaatruth ( talk) 04:38, 10 February 2021 (UTC)Aaaaaaatruth
As a general rule, do not remove sourced information from the encyclopedia solely on the grounds that it seems biased. Instead, try to rewrite the passage or section to achieve a more neutral tone. Biased information can usually be balanced with material cited to other sources to produce a more neutral perspective, so such problems should be fixed when possible through the normal editing process. Remove material only where you have a good reason to believe it misinforms or misleads readers in ways that cannot be addressed by rewriting the passage. The sections below offer specific guidance on common problems.
Naming Policy shortcut WP:POVNAMING See also: Wikipedia:Article titles § Neutrality in article titles In some cases, the choice of name used for a topic can give an appearance of bias. While neutral terms are generally preferable, this must be balanced against clarity. If a name is widely used in reliable sources (particularly those written in English), and is therefore likely to be well recognized by readers, it may be used even though some may regard it as biased. For example, the widely used names "Boston Massacre", "Teapot Dome scandal", and "Jack the Ripper" are legitimate ways of referring to the subjects in question, even though they may appear to pass judgment. The best name to use for a topic may depend on the context in which it is mentioned; it may be appropriate to mention alternative names and the controversies over their use, particularly when the topic in question is the main topic being discussed. Whitleyhollywood ( talk) 16:57, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
I have had no response to if these are allowable sources. If I do not hear from anyone I will assume they are fine and post. After I post them please do not remove them. Editing something to make it more neutral is fine but it must remain truthful. http://allanellenberger.com/tag/h-j-whitley/ https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/pdf/ManySalesByOneFirmLATimes1-10-1909.pdf https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/TheFatherofHollywoodDiesHollywoodDailyCitizen2_copy.jpg https://www.thefatherofhollywood.com/images/mournFatherofHollywood.JPG https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up Aaaaaaatruth ( talk) 21:31, 10 February 2021 (UTC)aaaaaaatruth
So you are saying Chicago : American Historical Society is not a reliable publisher. Neither are the Los Angeles Times, Hollywood Citizen, Los Herald and New York Times. https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up Di you actually look at this source?. Its not my family writing this. I changed my name on Wiki because it was a Wiki suggestion. Still want to know if you posted Tony Luke Scott, The Stars of Hollywood Forever and is it a reliable source? What does the book say? Are the sources that are currently on the H J Whitley Wiki page all reliable? 2/10/2021? Aaaaaaatruth ( talk) 06:35, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Aaaaaaatruth'
Is this a reliable source? https://oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt658018n4/ Aaaaaaatruth ( talk) 07:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Aaaaaaatruth
If you are asking if HJ Whitley grandaughter was on Wiki. she was not. Awhile back one grandson was on Wiki but he passed away in 2013. The other grandson was never on Wiki to my knowledge. The question is not who is posting but is the information from a reliable source. If it is why aren't you posting it or anyone else for that matter? Can you give me the exact reference that says relatives are not allowed to post? Plus did you look at the Chicago: American Historical Society Link. Why is it not a reliable source.
One of HJ Whitley's grandsons did input things on Wiki but he passed away in 2013. To my knowledge his granddaughter never posted or did his other grandson. They all passed away before 2013. I think you are focusing on the wrong issue. Is this a reliable source https://archive.org/details/losangelesfrommo03mcgr/page/816/mode/2up ? If not why? It was published in 1921. If it is a good source could you please post it as a reference? Also can you give me the verbiage of why a relative can not post? I would like it from Wiki? Thanks for your help. 73.151.205.135 ( talk) 18:36, 11 February 2021 (UTC)AaaaaaaTruth
No big surprise: AaaaaaaTruth and Whitleyhollywood are confirmed as Sockpuppets. Possibly ( talk) 06:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
After a recent spate of edits, it seems that Whitley's reputation as the "Father of Hollywood" has been sliced to the barest minimum in this article, mentioned but not explained very much at all. I suggest restoring the monicker to a more prominent role inasmuch as it appears to have been widely used during his lifetime and then in his obituaries. What do others think? Yours, BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 07:16, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
this article should say something like 'Whitley, along with Charles E. Toberman has been called the Father of Hollywood', and a parallel statement added to the Toberman article. Possibly ( talk) 18:40, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
I just added an early citation to this fellow as "the founder of Hollywood," from 1912. BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 06:49, 7 February 2022 (UTC)