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What stanzas constitute the Loddfáfnismál? FK0071a 15:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
In this article it gives an example stanza of the ' Ljóðatal' as beeing 155 but the Rúnatáls-tháttr-Odhins is stanzas 138 to 165 so what stanzas constitute the Ljóðatal? FK0071a 14:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Given the similarity in situation and linguists to the account in the Christian scriptires about the sacrifice of Jesus, aswell as messiah prophecies found in the Hebrew scriptures: I was wondering if there is any source material we can find, linking the connection between the spreading influence of Christianity into the norse society and these poems. -- 67.172.13.176 ( talk) 16:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
This is a complex question, and I seriously doubt there is a "scholarly consensus" that can be said to "boil down" to anything. It is probably true that no summary, no matter how condensed, should omit the following points
The Runatal is a living synthesis of (at least) two traditions, Migration period paganism and Christianity. Living mythology (a.k.a. paganism) works this way. Patton, pp. 215-217 or so, gives a good summary of this, and the Odin article would profit greatly from rising to at least Patton's level of illuminating the question. -- dab (𒁳) 09:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I think the current phrase at the end of the Rúnatal section "To what extent this parallelism is an incidental similarity of the mode of human sacrifice offered to Odin and the crucifixion, and to what extent Norse mythology exerted direct influence on the development of Christianity, is a complex question on which scholarly opinions vary." is misleading. As sources for this poem date concretely no earlier than the Codex Regius in 1270 [1] and Christianity reached Iceland in roughly 1000 AD [2] the likelihood that these traditions influenced Christianity and not the other way around seems dubious. The problem may be solved simply by adding "or vice versa" after "and to what extent Norse mythology exerted direct influence on the development of Christianity". Thornghost ( talk) 17:18, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
Deyr fé, (Cattle die)
deyja frændr, (Die kinsmen)
deyr sjálfr et sama; (Die myself the same)
ek veit einn, (One I know)
at aldri deyr: (That (which) never dies)
dómr of dauðan hvern. (Judgement of dead lives)
Translation by a nordic scholar is this in Danish:
Fæ dør, frænder dør,
også du skal dø
ét ved jeg, som aldrig dør,
dom om hver en død.
(Thøger Larsen)
The English translation, carrying the same message is:
Cattle die,
Kinsmen die,
I too shall die,
But I know, what never dies,
The judgement of dead mens lives.
Probably a bit better, anyone familiar with Icelandic and North West Norwegian will recognize this is better. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
188.141.102.62 (
talk)
19:17, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
It certainly is. The translation on the page is utterly terrible. "frændr" doesn't mean "uncles", not even in modern Icelandic. A proper translation would be either "friends" or "relatives" or both. The last line is almost as bad. It properly refers to a dead man's honorable reputation, if earned. Asgrrr ( talk) 14:18, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
the stanza quoted above is #75. Not "#77" as the article states. The confusion lies rather in that the source given in wiki article cites page 77 of the source, but the actual stanza is #75. Should be fixed.
69.146.103.116 (
talk)
03:32, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:50, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Are “Old Norse pronunciation: [ˈhawaˌmɒːl]” and “Icelandic pronunciation: [ˈhaːvaˌmaul̥]” right? Those sound more like *Havamǫ́l and *Havamál to me, but I'm no expert. — Knyȝt ( talk) 14:21, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
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Reporting errors |
What stanzas constitute the Loddfáfnismál? FK0071a 15:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
In this article it gives an example stanza of the ' Ljóðatal' as beeing 155 but the Rúnatáls-tháttr-Odhins is stanzas 138 to 165 so what stanzas constitute the Ljóðatal? FK0071a 14:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Given the similarity in situation and linguists to the account in the Christian scriptires about the sacrifice of Jesus, aswell as messiah prophecies found in the Hebrew scriptures: I was wondering if there is any source material we can find, linking the connection between the spreading influence of Christianity into the norse society and these poems. -- 67.172.13.176 ( talk) 16:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
This is a complex question, and I seriously doubt there is a "scholarly consensus" that can be said to "boil down" to anything. It is probably true that no summary, no matter how condensed, should omit the following points
The Runatal is a living synthesis of (at least) two traditions, Migration period paganism and Christianity. Living mythology (a.k.a. paganism) works this way. Patton, pp. 215-217 or so, gives a good summary of this, and the Odin article would profit greatly from rising to at least Patton's level of illuminating the question. -- dab (𒁳) 09:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I think the current phrase at the end of the Rúnatal section "To what extent this parallelism is an incidental similarity of the mode of human sacrifice offered to Odin and the crucifixion, and to what extent Norse mythology exerted direct influence on the development of Christianity, is a complex question on which scholarly opinions vary." is misleading. As sources for this poem date concretely no earlier than the Codex Regius in 1270 [1] and Christianity reached Iceland in roughly 1000 AD [2] the likelihood that these traditions influenced Christianity and not the other way around seems dubious. The problem may be solved simply by adding "or vice versa" after "and to what extent Norse mythology exerted direct influence on the development of Christianity". Thornghost ( talk) 17:18, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
Deyr fé, (Cattle die)
deyja frændr, (Die kinsmen)
deyr sjálfr et sama; (Die myself the same)
ek veit einn, (One I know)
at aldri deyr: (That (which) never dies)
dómr of dauðan hvern. (Judgement of dead lives)
Translation by a nordic scholar is this in Danish:
Fæ dør, frænder dør,
også du skal dø
ét ved jeg, som aldrig dør,
dom om hver en død.
(Thøger Larsen)
The English translation, carrying the same message is:
Cattle die,
Kinsmen die,
I too shall die,
But I know, what never dies,
The judgement of dead mens lives.
Probably a bit better, anyone familiar with Icelandic and North West Norwegian will recognize this is better. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
188.141.102.62 (
talk)
19:17, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
It certainly is. The translation on the page is utterly terrible. "frændr" doesn't mean "uncles", not even in modern Icelandic. A proper translation would be either "friends" or "relatives" or both. The last line is almost as bad. It properly refers to a dead man's honorable reputation, if earned. Asgrrr ( talk) 14:18, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
the stanza quoted above is #75. Not "#77" as the article states. The confusion lies rather in that the source given in wiki article cites page 77 of the source, but the actual stanza is #75. Should be fixed.
69.146.103.116 (
talk)
03:32, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Hávamál. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:50, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
Are “Old Norse pronunciation: [ˈhawaˌmɒːl]” and “Icelandic pronunciation: [ˈhaːvaˌmaul̥]” right? Those sound more like *Havamǫ́l and *Havamál to me, but I'm no expert. — Knyȝt ( talk) 14:21, 30 November 2017 (UTC)