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Gregory's Latin is peculiar, medieval, and not always strictly grammatical but calling it "Vulgar" is too far. It's not like the Latin of the Peregrinatio Etheriae. It does not accurately reflect the way common French people spoke in the 6th century AD. The full system of cases is there, long periods, complex rhetorical constructions, etc.
Agreed. There is nothing to support the contention, either, that his language was "calculated" to reach "Vulgar" speakers and readers either; Sandys (History of Classical Scholarship Vol. 1 p. 434) calls 'one of his favorite constructions' the 'accusative absolute,' and cites a multiplicity of instances in which Gregory 'veniam [precatur]' and pronounces himself 'sine litteris rhetoricis et arte grammatica' more than once. His errors provide full justification for his requests for pardon, but that does not make his Latin 'Vulgar'. The scholarly gambit cited in the introduction is removed until it can be moved to the body, in an appropriate place, with additional confirmatory citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.24.171.34 ( talk) 08:23, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
I do not think that Gregory was writing to please the Frankian kings at all! He was much more concerned with the Church and with religious matters.
I'm removing the reference near the bottom of the page that concerns how his canonisation hasn't affected the mainstream view of him as a historian. I don't see how it would affect this, and so it is unnecessary. His role as a bishop leads him to talk of miracles all the time in HF, and this may make the historian take him with a grain of salt, but the fact that he was a bishop is an issue separate from his being a saint.
Carl.bunderson
23:04, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
The birthdates disagree. I was under the impression that no-one is precisely sure of the date, but that it's probably 538.
Referring to the History of the Franks/Histories debate, in the books themselves Gregory of Tours never refers to it as the Historia Francorum but always the Historiae.
As for Gregory's writing for kings I'd say not, in his general preface, he mentions writing about relgious matters far more than political ones, but that is the subject of a lot of historical debate.
-- Narelon ( talk) 21:37, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
The picture on this page of "Saint Gregory with Augustine of Hippo" is not of Gregory of Tours at all, but rather of Saint Gregory the Great. You can tell because he's wearing a papal tiara, and the Holy Spirit is about to speak to him in the form of a dove. Someone should find a new picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.81.10.140 ( talk)
Nonsense! He bemoans the lack of such Liberal education in his introduction, quotes from Vergil twelve(!) times, and demonstrates his knowledge of the liberal arts curriculum in X.31. He wrote in the vernacular Latin of his time so that his works would be read. Obviously his Latin education was thorough! Even in Roman times, Vergil represented almost the entire educational curriculum. They didn't have the printing press yet! I am editing this section. Kozushi ( talk) 07:38, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Gregory of Tours/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The figure identified as Gregory of Tours in the first illustration is, in fact, Pope St Gregory the Great. |
Last edited at 16:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 16:45, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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Gregory's Latin is peculiar, medieval, and not always strictly grammatical but calling it "Vulgar" is too far. It's not like the Latin of the Peregrinatio Etheriae. It does not accurately reflect the way common French people spoke in the 6th century AD. The full system of cases is there, long periods, complex rhetorical constructions, etc.
Agreed. There is nothing to support the contention, either, that his language was "calculated" to reach "Vulgar" speakers and readers either; Sandys (History of Classical Scholarship Vol. 1 p. 434) calls 'one of his favorite constructions' the 'accusative absolute,' and cites a multiplicity of instances in which Gregory 'veniam [precatur]' and pronounces himself 'sine litteris rhetoricis et arte grammatica' more than once. His errors provide full justification for his requests for pardon, but that does not make his Latin 'Vulgar'. The scholarly gambit cited in the introduction is removed until it can be moved to the body, in an appropriate place, with additional confirmatory citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.24.171.34 ( talk) 08:23, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
I do not think that Gregory was writing to please the Frankian kings at all! He was much more concerned with the Church and with religious matters.
I'm removing the reference near the bottom of the page that concerns how his canonisation hasn't affected the mainstream view of him as a historian. I don't see how it would affect this, and so it is unnecessary. His role as a bishop leads him to talk of miracles all the time in HF, and this may make the historian take him with a grain of salt, but the fact that he was a bishop is an issue separate from his being a saint.
Carl.bunderson
23:04, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
The birthdates disagree. I was under the impression that no-one is precisely sure of the date, but that it's probably 538.
Referring to the History of the Franks/Histories debate, in the books themselves Gregory of Tours never refers to it as the Historia Francorum but always the Historiae.
As for Gregory's writing for kings I'd say not, in his general preface, he mentions writing about relgious matters far more than political ones, but that is the subject of a lot of historical debate.
-- Narelon ( talk) 21:37, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
The picture on this page of "Saint Gregory with Augustine of Hippo" is not of Gregory of Tours at all, but rather of Saint Gregory the Great. You can tell because he's wearing a papal tiara, and the Holy Spirit is about to speak to him in the form of a dove. Someone should find a new picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.81.10.140 ( talk)
Nonsense! He bemoans the lack of such Liberal education in his introduction, quotes from Vergil twelve(!) times, and demonstrates his knowledge of the liberal arts curriculum in X.31. He wrote in the vernacular Latin of his time so that his works would be read. Obviously his Latin education was thorough! Even in Roman times, Vergil represented almost the entire educational curriculum. They didn't have the printing press yet! I am editing this section. Kozushi ( talk) 07:38, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Gregory of Tours/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The figure identified as Gregory of Tours in the first illustration is, in fact, Pope St Gregory the Great. |
Last edited at 16:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 16:45, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Gregory of Tours. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:40, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:59, 23 January 2023 (UTC)