This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Great Dismal Swamp maroons has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
March 10, 2012. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that thousands of former
slaves, the
Great Dismal Swamp maroons (pictured), settled in the marshlands of
Virginia and
North Carolina from the early 1700s to 1865? |
DYK nom Template:Did you know nominations/Great Dismal Swamp maroons
Things I want to come back to:
I just want to see if there is better wording after reviewing the sources. I will check the other sections when time permits. — Ched : ? 17:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
about all I can see - well done, and I'll see if I can tweak those few things soon (unless someone else does) — Ched : ? 19:29, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Grapple X ( talk · contribs) 19:01, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Sorry, Matthew, got caught in an edit conflict so I'm adding my review here. If you want to give a second opinion I'll wait for it before I close this up, though.
I feel certain that Maroon is preferable to maroon. Gandydancer ( talk) 12:11, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Believe me Montanabw, I understand your position! But I am new to this article and I'm not too tired at all. At this point I am not willing to budge on my opinion that at the very least the article title should use caps. As for the article body, I would think that all caps would be easiest (and not "wrong"), but I am open to discussion. Gandydancer ( talk) 17:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I can understand that the editors of the article are tired of arguments. I have been in the same position myself wherein I had a long association with an article and knew it inside and out, and just when I thought that I was finally in calmer waters and could sit back and relax a brand new editor shows up and starts going over long since settled issues. They often just hang around for a few days stirring up trouble and then leave without ever doing a single thing to improve the article.
Montanabw, you keep saying I should just put-up-or-shut-up. I have no intention of doing that at all. If we were three editors arguing about a random article I'd consider myself on equal ground, but considering that Gerda wrote the article I feel that I need to convince her rather than impose my ideas for the article against her wishes.
To go on with my argument: After doing as much research as I could it seems pretty obvious to me that in the case of the name, "Great Dismal Swamp maroons", maroon should be in caps. I don't agree with Pesky when she says, Unless pretty much all the sources capitalise "Maroon", making it a kinda proper-noun thing, then MOS is pretty clear that it should be lower-case...Absolutely no point moving it back again, the redirects are perfectly adequate, and I can't see any clear argument at all for capitalising it in this instance. The thing is, in my research they all do use caps when they speak of a colony of maroons. See for instance the link I provided above from the Smithsonian Institute written by anthropologist Richard Price. I will paste a paragraph here to show when he does and does not use caps for maroon:
The political system of the great 17th-century Brazilian maroon community of Palmares, for example, which R. K. Kent has characterized as an "African" state, "did not derive from a particular central African model, but from several." In the development of the kinship system of the Ndjuka Maroons of Suriname, writes André Kobben, "undoubtedly their West-African heritage played a part . . . [and] the influence of the matrilineal Akan tribes is unmistakable, but so is that of patrilineal tribes . . . [and there are] significant differences between the Akan and Ndjuka matrilineal systems." Historical research has revealed that the woodcarving of the Suriname Maroons, long considered "an African art in the Americas" on the basis of many formal resemblances, is (in the words of Jean Hurault) in fact a fundamentally new, African American art "for which it would be pointless to seek the origin through direct transmission of any particular African style." And detailed historical investigations--both in museums and in the field--of a range of cultural phenomena among the Saramaka Maroons of Suriname have confirmed the continuing existence of dynamic, creative processes that inspire these societies. Gandydancer ( talk) 15:45, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Gandydancer asked me to comment here. I note that the article Maroon (people) uses the capital to refer to the people as a whole. Since they are a people, capitalization seems correct, at least more correct than lower case. At the least, the article Maroon (people) should be changed to lowercase or this article should be changed to uppercase to be consistent. If I were to choose, I would go with the cap, because 1) otherwise you have to change the Maroon (people) article and 2) because it seems like the safe thing to do to distinguish the people from the color and RS are ambivalent about the thing. So you have RS coming down equally on both sides of the capital issue, MOS therefore being neutral as well, and you have common sense and convenience coming down on the side of a capital. Also, people's feelings. Generally, you disregard people's feelings in writing an encyclopedia, but when all else is totally equal as seems to be the case here, you can let that be a factor. Be——Critical 21:17, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I think the very fact that it has unclear, historical origin works in our favor. The leniency about a fuzzy issue gives us editorial leeway over the main alternative. If this were the Korean Wikipedia, we have no lowercase letters. There would be no discussion nor disagreement & all sides would lovingly agree with one another. (As an aside, we add "respect" by the suffix "yo" or 요 as an honorific.) Also, is it okay if we invoke WP:IAR here for the sake of forming consensus around a hotly debated issue? I err on the side of political correctness when it comes to race issues, so I'm throwing my support behind GandyDancer until I read a more heartfelt or incontrovertibly compelling counter-argument than those already provided above. 완젬스 ( talk) 11:30, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Maroon (people), Cattawood Springs, Cockpit Country, Colin Jackson, Coromantee people, Cotterwood, Cudjoe, First Maroon War, Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge, Jamaican Maroons, Jamaican Maroons in Sierra Leone, Maroon Town, Sierra Leone, Nanny Town, St. John's Maroon Church, Sierra Leone Creole people, and Second Maroon War use a capital "M" when referring to Maroons. Great Dismal Swamp maroons is all capitalized, but each instance is either at the beginning of a sentence or in a title. Accompong, Nanny of the Maroons, and Major Jarrett use both capital and lowercase (that should probably be decided one way or another). Great Dismal Swamp is the only article I can find that uses exclusively lowercase for "maroons." In the interest of consistency, Maroon should be capitalized. Terms like " Creek Indians," " Seminoles," or " Neutral Nation" did not initially refer to ethnic groups but over the years evolved to refer to very specific groups of people, and these terms are all capitalized. - Uyvsdi ( talk) 22:34, 25 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Great Dismal Swamp maroons. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://camdencountync.besavvy2.egovlink.com/UndergroundRailroad.cfmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:31, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Great Dismal Swamp maroons has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
March 10, 2012. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that thousands of former
slaves, the
Great Dismal Swamp maroons (pictured), settled in the marshlands of
Virginia and
North Carolina from the early 1700s to 1865? |
DYK nom Template:Did you know nominations/Great Dismal Swamp maroons
Things I want to come back to:
I just want to see if there is better wording after reviewing the sources. I will check the other sections when time permits. — Ched : ? 17:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
about all I can see - well done, and I'll see if I can tweak those few things soon (unless someone else does) — Ched : ? 19:29, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Grapple X ( talk · contribs) 19:01, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Sorry, Matthew, got caught in an edit conflict so I'm adding my review here. If you want to give a second opinion I'll wait for it before I close this up, though.
I feel certain that Maroon is preferable to maroon. Gandydancer ( talk) 12:11, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Believe me Montanabw, I understand your position! But I am new to this article and I'm not too tired at all. At this point I am not willing to budge on my opinion that at the very least the article title should use caps. As for the article body, I would think that all caps would be easiest (and not "wrong"), but I am open to discussion. Gandydancer ( talk) 17:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I can understand that the editors of the article are tired of arguments. I have been in the same position myself wherein I had a long association with an article and knew it inside and out, and just when I thought that I was finally in calmer waters and could sit back and relax a brand new editor shows up and starts going over long since settled issues. They often just hang around for a few days stirring up trouble and then leave without ever doing a single thing to improve the article.
Montanabw, you keep saying I should just put-up-or-shut-up. I have no intention of doing that at all. If we were three editors arguing about a random article I'd consider myself on equal ground, but considering that Gerda wrote the article I feel that I need to convince her rather than impose my ideas for the article against her wishes.
To go on with my argument: After doing as much research as I could it seems pretty obvious to me that in the case of the name, "Great Dismal Swamp maroons", maroon should be in caps. I don't agree with Pesky when she says, Unless pretty much all the sources capitalise "Maroon", making it a kinda proper-noun thing, then MOS is pretty clear that it should be lower-case...Absolutely no point moving it back again, the redirects are perfectly adequate, and I can't see any clear argument at all for capitalising it in this instance. The thing is, in my research they all do use caps when they speak of a colony of maroons. See for instance the link I provided above from the Smithsonian Institute written by anthropologist Richard Price. I will paste a paragraph here to show when he does and does not use caps for maroon:
The political system of the great 17th-century Brazilian maroon community of Palmares, for example, which R. K. Kent has characterized as an "African" state, "did not derive from a particular central African model, but from several." In the development of the kinship system of the Ndjuka Maroons of Suriname, writes André Kobben, "undoubtedly their West-African heritage played a part . . . [and] the influence of the matrilineal Akan tribes is unmistakable, but so is that of patrilineal tribes . . . [and there are] significant differences between the Akan and Ndjuka matrilineal systems." Historical research has revealed that the woodcarving of the Suriname Maroons, long considered "an African art in the Americas" on the basis of many formal resemblances, is (in the words of Jean Hurault) in fact a fundamentally new, African American art "for which it would be pointless to seek the origin through direct transmission of any particular African style." And detailed historical investigations--both in museums and in the field--of a range of cultural phenomena among the Saramaka Maroons of Suriname have confirmed the continuing existence of dynamic, creative processes that inspire these societies. Gandydancer ( talk) 15:45, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Gandydancer asked me to comment here. I note that the article Maroon (people) uses the capital to refer to the people as a whole. Since they are a people, capitalization seems correct, at least more correct than lower case. At the least, the article Maroon (people) should be changed to lowercase or this article should be changed to uppercase to be consistent. If I were to choose, I would go with the cap, because 1) otherwise you have to change the Maroon (people) article and 2) because it seems like the safe thing to do to distinguish the people from the color and RS are ambivalent about the thing. So you have RS coming down equally on both sides of the capital issue, MOS therefore being neutral as well, and you have common sense and convenience coming down on the side of a capital. Also, people's feelings. Generally, you disregard people's feelings in writing an encyclopedia, but when all else is totally equal as seems to be the case here, you can let that be a factor. Be——Critical 21:17, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
I think the very fact that it has unclear, historical origin works in our favor. The leniency about a fuzzy issue gives us editorial leeway over the main alternative. If this were the Korean Wikipedia, we have no lowercase letters. There would be no discussion nor disagreement & all sides would lovingly agree with one another. (As an aside, we add "respect" by the suffix "yo" or 요 as an honorific.) Also, is it okay if we invoke WP:IAR here for the sake of forming consensus around a hotly debated issue? I err on the side of political correctness when it comes to race issues, so I'm throwing my support behind GandyDancer until I read a more heartfelt or incontrovertibly compelling counter-argument than those already provided above. 완젬스 ( talk) 11:30, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Maroon (people), Cattawood Springs, Cockpit Country, Colin Jackson, Coromantee people, Cotterwood, Cudjoe, First Maroon War, Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge, Jamaican Maroons, Jamaican Maroons in Sierra Leone, Maroon Town, Sierra Leone, Nanny Town, St. John's Maroon Church, Sierra Leone Creole people, and Second Maroon War use a capital "M" when referring to Maroons. Great Dismal Swamp maroons is all capitalized, but each instance is either at the beginning of a sentence or in a title. Accompong, Nanny of the Maroons, and Major Jarrett use both capital and lowercase (that should probably be decided one way or another). Great Dismal Swamp is the only article I can find that uses exclusively lowercase for "maroons." In the interest of consistency, Maroon should be capitalized. Terms like " Creek Indians," " Seminoles," or " Neutral Nation" did not initially refer to ethnic groups but over the years evolved to refer to very specific groups of people, and these terms are all capitalized. - Uyvsdi ( talk) 22:34, 25 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Great Dismal Swamp maroons. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://camdencountync.besavvy2.egovlink.com/UndergroundRailroad.cfmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:31, 22 October 2017 (UTC)