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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can someone explain the logic of this and why it was agreed to include links to the separate entities? Per WP:DAB: 'Do not add a link that merely contains part of the page title'. I fail to see how someone looking for the United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, Great Britain or Ireland would search 'Great Britain and Ireland', or similar. They wouldn't. I don't care if this was 'agreed after lengthy discussion'. This is a disambiguation page, it is not for clarifying the difference between the UK and Republic of Ireland. We assume the reader already knows what they are looking for. Rob ( talk | contribs) 09:16, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Great Britain and Ireland, Ireland and the United Kingdom and similar phrases may refer to:
I think the real problem is that we are trying to disambiguate multiple phrases with different meanings on one page. 'United Kingdom' ≠ 'Great Britain' ≠ 'Britain'. Maybe we should define each phrase at it's own page:
Britain and Ireland may refer to:
• Great Britain and Ireland, two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe.
• United Kingdom and Ireland, two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the states of Ireland and the United Kingdom
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the formal name of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1927
Great Britain and Ireland are two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe.
Great Britain and Ireland may also refer to:
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• United Kingdom and Ireland, two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the states of Ireland and the United Kingdom
• United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the formal name of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1927
The United Kingdom and Ireland are two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe.
United Kingdom and Ireland may also refer to either:
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the states of Ireland and the United Kingdom
This way we are actually defining the terms clearly, and in line with MOS, as oppose to trying to summarise the differences between the terms, in a format simply not designed to do so. I agree with High King, if we want these phrases to redirect to a page explaining there differences, then why not redirect to
Terminology of the British Isles where this done effectively? Otherwise, we need to disambiguate (and therefore define) each phrase individually.
Rob (
talk |
contribs)
14:42, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think we should create a new disambiguation page at
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland.
'Britain and Ireland', and 'Great Britain and Ireland' are highly ambiguous as they refer to either the states or the islands, while 'United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland' clearly refers to the states. We can further refine what the reader is looking by spiting this page:
Great Britain and Ireland may refer to:
• Great Britain and Ireland, two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe
• Republic of Ireland and United Kingdom, two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the formal name of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1927
The United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland are two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe.
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland may also refer to either:
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the states of Ireland and the United Kingdom
Anything with either 'Republic of Ireland' or 'United Kingdom', can be redirected to
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland as the reader is clearly referring to the states, not the islands. For example, 'United Kingdom and Ireland', or 'Republic of Ireland and Britain'.
Rob (
talk |
contribs)
22:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Generally, I don't think a few irrelevant entries causes any inconvenience for a reader. However, I think this page specifically potentially confuses readers because, unlike most disambiguation pages, the terms being disambiguated are not synonymous, and it's not clear as to which terms are being disambiguated to which entries.
For example, if a reader were to search: 'Britain and the Republic of Ireland' and then read 'Great Britain and Ireland, two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe', they may interpret the page as implying that 'Britain and the Republic of Ireland' may refer to 'two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe'.
In essence, I think the split will ensure both disambiguation pages are only disambiguating terms which may refer to all entries on the page, and therefore, to some extent, improving clarity. It also improves presentational consistency as I'm not aware of any other pages disambiguating two or more terms that aren't synonymous.
Rob (
talk |
contribs)
20:06, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Month | Searches for "United Kingdom and Ireland" |
---|---|
August 2013 | 16 |
September 2013 | 31 |
October 2013 | 24 |
November 2013 | 15 |
December 2013 | 15 |
January 2014 | 13 |
February 2014 | 18 |
March 2014 | 18 |
April 2014 | 30 |
May 2014 | 24 |
June 2014 | 17 |
July 2014 | 21 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Moving on from the discussion above, I think Ireland–United Kingdom relations is the primary topic of this phrase. I propose we redirect all phrases including the terms "Republic of Ireland" and/or "United Kingdom" to Ireland–United Kingdom relations. Thoughts? Rob984 ( talk) 18:55, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page. Note that this is a navigational page; as Newyorkbrad brought up in the deletion discussion so long ago, "The page briefly and usefully discusses use of the term 'Great Britain and Ireland.'" While there is some dispute here as to whether this is a common or accurate term, the disambiguation page is working as intended by presenting all possible targets, and the discussion below shows no consensus to move at this time. Dekimasu よ! 15:33, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
Great Britain and Ireland →
Britain and Ireland –
In academic use, "Great Britain" refers solely to the island, while "Britain" may refer to either the island or the state.
Therefore, in academic use, "Great Britain and Ireland" refers only to the islands.
This article shows uses of phrases which refer to both the islands, and the states. Therefore I think "Britain and Ireland" is a more appropriate title.
Rob984 (
talk)
19:22, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
This edit removes the definite article from before "United Kingdom" and Republic of Ireland on the grounds that WP:MOSDAB says the "The link should come at the start of the entry."
This literalistic interpretation is probably wrong based on meaning - the guideline intends, I would say:
Rather than
Even if it it did not, it would be wrong to subvert good English to comply with it.
All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough,
18:35, 24 August 2015 (UTC).
This article was nominated for deletion on 13 February 2007. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
||
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can someone explain the logic of this and why it was agreed to include links to the separate entities? Per WP:DAB: 'Do not add a link that merely contains part of the page title'. I fail to see how someone looking for the United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, Great Britain or Ireland would search 'Great Britain and Ireland', or similar. They wouldn't. I don't care if this was 'agreed after lengthy discussion'. This is a disambiguation page, it is not for clarifying the difference between the UK and Republic of Ireland. We assume the reader already knows what they are looking for. Rob ( talk | contribs) 09:16, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Great Britain and Ireland, Ireland and the United Kingdom and similar phrases may refer to:
I think the real problem is that we are trying to disambiguate multiple phrases with different meanings on one page. 'United Kingdom' ≠ 'Great Britain' ≠ 'Britain'. Maybe we should define each phrase at it's own page:
Britain and Ireland may refer to:
• Great Britain and Ireland, two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe.
• United Kingdom and Ireland, two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the states of Ireland and the United Kingdom
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the formal name of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1927
Great Britain and Ireland are two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe.
Great Britain and Ireland may also refer to:
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• United Kingdom and Ireland, two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the states of Ireland and the United Kingdom
• United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the formal name of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1927
The United Kingdom and Ireland are two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe.
United Kingdom and Ireland may also refer to either:
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the states of Ireland and the United Kingdom
This way we are actually defining the terms clearly, and in line with MOS, as oppose to trying to summarise the differences between the terms, in a format simply not designed to do so. I agree with High King, if we want these phrases to redirect to a page explaining there differences, then why not redirect to
Terminology of the British Isles where this done effectively? Otherwise, we need to disambiguate (and therefore define) each phrase individually.
Rob (
talk |
contribs)
14:42, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think we should create a new disambiguation page at
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland.
'Britain and Ireland', and 'Great Britain and Ireland' are highly ambiguous as they refer to either the states or the islands, while 'United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland' clearly refers to the states. We can further refine what the reader is looking by spiting this page:
Great Britain and Ireland may refer to:
• Great Britain and Ireland, two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe
• Republic of Ireland and United Kingdom, two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the formal name of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1927
The United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland are two sovereign states off the north-western coat of continental Europe.
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland may also refer to either:
• British Isles, an archipelago made up of Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands
• Ireland–United Kingdom relations, the relations between the states of Ireland and the United Kingdom
Anything with either 'Republic of Ireland' or 'United Kingdom', can be redirected to
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland as the reader is clearly referring to the states, not the islands. For example, 'United Kingdom and Ireland', or 'Republic of Ireland and Britain'.
Rob (
talk |
contribs)
22:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Generally, I don't think a few irrelevant entries causes any inconvenience for a reader. However, I think this page specifically potentially confuses readers because, unlike most disambiguation pages, the terms being disambiguated are not synonymous, and it's not clear as to which terms are being disambiguated to which entries.
For example, if a reader were to search: 'Britain and the Republic of Ireland' and then read 'Great Britain and Ireland, two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe', they may interpret the page as implying that 'Britain and the Republic of Ireland' may refer to 'two islands off the north-western coat of continental Europe'.
In essence, I think the split will ensure both disambiguation pages are only disambiguating terms which may refer to all entries on the page, and therefore, to some extent, improving clarity. It also improves presentational consistency as I'm not aware of any other pages disambiguating two or more terms that aren't synonymous.
Rob (
talk |
contribs)
20:06, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Month | Searches for "United Kingdom and Ireland" |
---|---|
August 2013 | 16 |
September 2013 | 31 |
October 2013 | 24 |
November 2013 | 15 |
December 2013 | 15 |
January 2014 | 13 |
February 2014 | 18 |
March 2014 | 18 |
April 2014 | 30 |
May 2014 | 24 |
June 2014 | 17 |
July 2014 | 21 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Moving on from the discussion above, I think Ireland–United Kingdom relations is the primary topic of this phrase. I propose we redirect all phrases including the terms "Republic of Ireland" and/or "United Kingdom" to Ireland–United Kingdom relations. Thoughts? Rob984 ( talk) 18:55, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page. Note that this is a navigational page; as Newyorkbrad brought up in the deletion discussion so long ago, "The page briefly and usefully discusses use of the term 'Great Britain and Ireland.'" While there is some dispute here as to whether this is a common or accurate term, the disambiguation page is working as intended by presenting all possible targets, and the discussion below shows no consensus to move at this time. Dekimasu よ! 15:33, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
Great Britain and Ireland →
Britain and Ireland –
In academic use, "Great Britain" refers solely to the island, while "Britain" may refer to either the island or the state.
Therefore, in academic use, "Great Britain and Ireland" refers only to the islands.
This article shows uses of phrases which refer to both the islands, and the states. Therefore I think "Britain and Ireland" is a more appropriate title.
Rob984 (
talk)
19:22, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
This edit removes the definite article from before "United Kingdom" and Republic of Ireland on the grounds that WP:MOSDAB says the "The link should come at the start of the entry."
This literalistic interpretation is probably wrong based on meaning - the guideline intends, I would say:
Rather than
Even if it it did not, it would be wrong to subvert good English to comply with it.
All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough,
18:35, 24 August 2015 (UTC).