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This stub contains partially incorrect information that requires a page fix - as a Wikipedia novice and someone in a rush right now, I'm uncertain how to do it. " Grand Central Depot," "Grand Central Station," and "Grand Central Terminal" are effectively three different buildings on one plot of land. GCD was built in the 1870s (1872, I think). In the late 1890s (completed in 1898, I think) the headhouse was pretty much demolished (it was expanded from 3 to 6 stories and an entirely new facade put on it) but the train shed (a balloon shed spanning all the tracks) was kept. This was GCS. Starting in 1905 and finishing in 1911 or 1912, the entire building was torndown in phases and replaced by the current GCT. This work was accompanied by the electrification of the three railroads using the station and the burial of the approach in the Park Avenue tunnel.
So, either the name of the page is wrong or we need different pages for the different buildings - Donald Friedman
Thanks for the save. I'll flesh it out shortly. DF
I just read through this article. Wow! Other than the one-sentence paragraphs in the Layout section and the lack of a building schematic, this could easily be a featured article. I'll look through the references that I've got at home to see if I can find anything to add to it (I remember a Trains Magazine article about the station a couple years ago, and I saw something on the History Channel about that time too...). slambo 18:20, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
There are a number of references to the PanAM building in the article. In the mid 1990's the building was sold and was renamed the MetLife Building. I have updated the article accordingly. -- Allan 20:06, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I am a french reader of this encyclopedia and I was searching for an information about Grand Central Terminal. I would like to know how many people pass through Grand Central Station each day, each months, each year and unfortunatly I have not seen the information in the article. Someone knows? Sorry for my bad english and thank you.
Another thing : maybe It will be possible to add to the article informations about Grand Central Station in popular culture? Movies, books, music, advertising? 11 september, 17h00.
Statistics about the number of daily visitors is on this page, which is linked from the article: http://www.waltlockley.com/cgt/gct.htm -- Lockley 19:31, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for your answer Lockley. And I see that a new section "Grand Central Station in popular culture" has appeared since my suggestion above. Great ! A very good article. fr:Utilisateur:Kuxu
Regarding the recent change of Image:Grand Central Terminal main concourse.jpg to Image:Grand_Central_Terminal_Inside_New_York_City_Long.jpg, I find the latter to be more illustrative of the ceiling, but overall less illustrative since it is a night shot and a darker image. Maybe we will have to wait until the window and exterior restoration is complete to get a bright illustrative day shot. Comments? -- ChrisRuvolo ( t) 15:09, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
It would be great if somebody could post photos of the terminal before restoration (e.g., the colorama and host of advertisements. Also, does anybody have a photos of the pre-computer board. Americasroof 02:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I was watching Jane's New York (hosted by Jane Hanson) on WNBC-TV today. The show was Underground New York ( video introduction) and culminated in a guided tour with a GCT historian of an underground sub-basement. The historian claimed that it was far below the lower track level, and an elevator was shown descending to it. The historian said that the room was preserved in its original 1913 fittings. It had control devices, switching devices, and electrical devices. Apparently during WWII, the existance of the sub-based became a national security secret, because if someone sabotaged the electrical systems all troop movements in the Northeast U.S. would come to a halt. The historian claimed that the existance of the sub-basement was one of the best-kept secrets of New York.
Also, they said that there was a system of ropes that were strung up in the tunnels leading to GCT before there was an electric switching system. When a train broke down in a tunnel, the engineer pulled a rope along the track, which alerted the switching room that there was a problem. Ropes were connected to a bell and a tickertape output.
Can anyone confirm these reports? -- ChrisRuvolo ( t) 05:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
The "sub-basement" in question is actually clearly marked on the high-resolution image of the "Suburban Level" tracks. (The image has been on the article for some time)
It's actually known as the "Trucking Subway". --"Subway", in this case, being the British definition of the word (what Americans typically call a "pedestrian underpass"); and "Trucking", in this case, referring to hand-trucks-- It was once used extensively by intercity railroads for the efficient transfer of passengers' baggage.
Since only commuter services now call at Grand Central Terminal, the Trucking Subway is seldom used nowadays, and is now often occupied by " Mole People" (homeless persons that have taken up residence in abandoned underground structures). I am unable to confirm the popular belief that it was a strategic target in World War II; although it is not unlikely since it is often referred to by Mole People as "Burma Road", which is clearly a WWII reference. Pine 00:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed this image from the bottom of the page for a number of reasons and it has been reverted back by Keo who suggested that I bring it to the talk page. My reasoning was this:
1. There is no citation or reference that the American flag was hung in the terminal after September 11 (or specifically because of 9/11). I did a google search to see if I could find a page that supported this claim but was not able to find anything.
2. The image is basically a duplicate of the lead image in terms of the view. It doesn't really show anything that the existing image does not, except that if anything it does a poorer job of showing the expansiveness of the terminal. Although it is hardly a deal-breaker, we also frown on the use of watermarks within the image on wikipedia, and this image has a prominent copyright notice at the bottom.
3. It is extremely unencyclopedic and NPOV. The title of the image is GodBlessAmerica.jpg (NPOV), it is black and white aside from the American flag in color (which is very misleading for a modern encyclopedia - the image should be in color and only historical images need be B&W). Such a show of patriotism is a bit over the top for an article about the Grand Central Terminal. Yes, if it is true that the flag was hung as a result of the 9/11 attacks, then it should be mentioned in the article and cited, as that is relevent to the article, but this image is simply not NPOV enough in my opinion, despite the fact that it is artistic and emotional. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 10:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0512/feature6/gallery2.html http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0512/feature6/images/gallery.6.2.jpg
Is there any reason for this photo? The blurriness makes it kind of arty, but that's not what we need.
Further, I have doubts about it being encyclopedic here. It doesn't convey any information that isn't in the lead photo, nor is there any reference to the station looking signficantly different at night. Daniel Case 15:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. LuciferMorgan 00:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I think the stats should be footnote cited and dated, probably using ref tags. It would be very easy for a number like % of lost item returns to change and not be noticed. -- 68.160.160.108 02:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
This article is currently under Good Article Review. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LuciferMorgan ( talk • contribs) 04:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC).
MNCX 002: Mystery train car, super heavily reinforced, in an underground facility near the infamous M42 facility under Grand Central Terminal. Reported on the History Channel, "Cities of the Underworld: New York", 2007, aired November 25, 2007, 8:00-9:00 pm MST. LanceBarber ( talk) 03:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I think it's about time a station infobox is added to the article. An infobox would allow us to bring the train service info (currently located at the very bottom of the page) to the top of the page for easy viewing. Some other info could be added in there as well. For example, if we can find some info on how many tracks and platforms are in the station, we could add them in there. As for a picture to add to the top of the infobox, I was thinking of using one of the pictures already in the article. Give your suggestions. Murjax ( talk) 03:13, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
People sometimes jokingly answer a busy phone "Grand Central Station!" What does this have to do exactly with a NYC train station? - Rolypolyman ( talk) 01:30, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
what about the frozen people performance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwMj3PJDxuo i am trying to find more information about this and i thought it should be here-- Nauki ( talk) 12:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
This BBC news clip might interest. Not sure if it's noteworthy. -- Tagishsimon (talk) 23:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Just to point out for those who keep thinking station is correct, it's not. "Terminal" is a railroad stop where trains terminate, or end the line. "Station" is a railroad stop where trains go through the line. No train goes through Grand Central. It is incorrect to call it station. The workers and MTA make a big deal about this, albeit trivial discourse in semantics. Notice that Penn Station is still called "Station" because the Amtrak goes through it despite the fact that the NJT and LIRR terminate there. Justin Tokke ( talk) 13:34, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
This discussion reminds me of the movie "The Inside Man" where Clive Owen's character asks the trick question as to what weighs more, the number of trains that pass through Grand Central Station or the number of trees cut down every year to print US money. The answer is they both weigh the same, nothing, since no train passes through Grand Central Station (the post office) and US money is made from cotton, not paper. However, there was some debate in the movie that the North Line does pass through GCT, but others asserted all trains terminated there anyway. Does anyone know the definitive answer? 150.203.110.18 ( talk) 09:51, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm an inexperienced Wikipedia commenter with experience writing about New York architecture. I'm a co-author of New York 1900, which is included in the page's bibliography.
I'd like to see the page start with a different tone, but I was hesitant about simply making such a large change. I think it would be better to have more about the quality of the architecture and the experience while being less quantitative in the beginning. Grand Central is one of the great civic monuments not only of New York but of the Western world, and it functions perfectly as a gateway to New York that announces that you have arrived in a great city. After all it's called "Grand Central Terminal," not "44 Platform & 67 Track Central Terminal."
There could also be more discussion about how the visitor experiences the station and is naturally led through it, about the quality of the architecture (it's monumentality, the simple but grand details, technological innovation like the windows at each end, etc.), and about the relationship of Reed & Stem and Warren & Wetmore, why W & W were involved after R & S won the competition (Whitney Warren was Commodore Vanderbilt's cousin), and how much W & W improved the grandeur of Grand Central Terminal.
Those additions are easier to make than suggesting a whole new introduction, which is why I wanted to start at the Discussions Page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmassengale ( talk • contribs) 05:33, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
I am new and inexperienced to Wiki, too, but I totally agree with Mr. Massengale. I love the way we are led into or out of the building via sloping ramps that Slow you down as you are eager to run to work, or help you run faster to catch the train, or help you run down the slope to enter the building. Great architectural features you don't realize until you think about them! You Go, GCT! RonRice ( talk) 04:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
This needs to be thinned. There's too many examples in general (per WP:TRIVIA), and most films mentioned have maybe one short scene in the terminal; it's not a featured location critical to the plot. That's what should be the criteria for inclusion. Any ideas of which films should be included and which should be tossed? oknazevad ( talk) 20:14, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
The attribution to Helleu for GCT's sky ceiling appears in error, on this page and on Helleu's wiki page. It seems clear from proof below that the GCT's ceiling was painted by James "Monroe" Hewlett, not Helleu. Please see below, and see if we can get these 2 WIKI websites changed. I am new to Wiki editing so I do not know how to format this properly. Sorry. I hope someone out there will see it and help. Thanks, Ron
Forwarded below is "proof" to MAS, with Hewlett's granddaughter's, Lesea Newman's permission. Lesea is willing to discuss it, if asked. I think this would be a great page to add to your website to Promote Good History and Kill Bad. In fact you could use these emails to easily make it a Q&A page with photos. Thanks, Ron Rice
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 Subject: RE: JMH GC Terminal's sky ceiling From Lesea Newman About the Grand Central Station Sky-ceiling. I hope this does the job, but as we both know, bad history is hard to kill. Charles Basing was originally from Australia. I don't know much about him. Gulbrandson worked with JMH too. His grandson was working with John Canning Painting Studios on the latest version of the ceiling.
Although I have articles that credit JMH and articles that credit Helleu, I think the final word is
'1.'Grand Central: Gateway to a Million Lives by John Belle and Maxine R. Leighton W.W. Norton and Co. 2000. On p. 57 it says, "Conceived by Warren and his friend, the French portraitist Paul Helleu, the mural was the creation of J. Monroe Hewlett and Charles Basing. Corps of astronomers and painting assistants worked with Hewlett and Basing."
2. "Hartford Courant" March 2, 1997 "The original 1913 ceiling was designed by muralist and architect J. Monroe Hewlett." Story by Mary K. Feeney starts on p. 1.
3. This article is quite definitive. Contract Interiors 1945 Feb., v. 104 p. 54-57. Over Your Head and Under Your Nose, The year's largest redecorating job. P. 55 "Mr. Helleu suggested an astronomical mural and sent a few rough sketches, but contrary to popular belief he did not make the final cartoon, shown on these pages, nor did he oversee the actual painting. The latter was the work of J. Monroe Hewlett, with considerable assistance from a few professional astronomers and a corps of young assistants."
4. N.Y. Herald Tribune, Fri., August 18, 1944. ".....followed the design of J. Monroe Hewlett....."
5. John Canning Painting Studios who restored the ceiling in 1998, also gave JMH credit in their promotional literature. The Project: Grand Central Terminal, Sky Mural etc. "Designed by J. Monroe Hewlett, arcitect and muralist. Charles Bassing, architect and artist who painted the ceiling."
6. I also confirmed this in a report written by Deborah Rau, an architectural historian and former BBBelle employee, as part of her doctoral thesis. It is included as an addendum to the official Historic Structure Report for GCT. It is the definitive history of the GCT sky ceiling and was the source for the information included in the book by John Belle and Maxinne Leighton. Frank J. Prial Jr. AIA Associate Beyer Blinder Belle
7. Page 172 of the the MAS book, 110 Architectural Walks in Manhattan'''''', credits the cartoons and execution to Hewlett.
I also sent this proof to MAS, so they will correct their webiste artilce they posted.
Star Gazing in Grand Central - MAS November 11th, 2010, 5:41 pm < http://mas.org/star-gazing-in-grand-central/> On Monday, the stars in Grand Central Terminal’s sky ceiling were once again shining. For several months, electricians have been installing energy efficient LED lights, which are now burning bright, just in time for the holiday season. Having helped save Grand Central Terminal in the 1970s < http://mas.org/awards/jkomedal/#grandcentral> , we at MAS are particularly pleased that the mural painted by Paul Cesar Helleu in 1913, has not only been preserved, but also updated with the latest efficient technology available. Originally, the mural depicting the zodiac used incandescent bulbs to light the 59 largest stars in the constellation, but changing the bulbs in the 125-foot ceiling proved to be a difficult, and labor intensive, feat. When the mural was restored in 1997, a fiber optic lighting system was put in place, but within ten years, many of those lights had dimmed or faded out. Last year, MAS urged the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) to fix the lighting system as it is such an important part of the terminal’s history. “We applaud the MTA for heeding our advice, and once again casting light on this iconic work of art. The newly installed LED lights are not only functional, using about 60% less energy than the fiber optics and lasting five years, but they also serve as a great example of how preservation and sustainability can be thoughtfully integrated,” said MAS President Vin Cipolla. Whether passing through the terminal or rushing to get a train, take a moment to look up at the stars. You can also admire the new and improved sky ceiling during one of MAS’ weekly Wednesday 12:30 walking tour of Grand Central Terminal < http://www.mas.org/tours> . http://mas.org/star-gazing-in-grand-central/ < http://mas.org/star-gazing-in-grand-central/> Star Gazing in Grand Central Grand Central Terminal Every Wednesday, 12:30 p.m. – 2:00 p.m. Municipal Art Society has been giving tours of this magnificent Beaux-Arts landmark for a quarter-century, and since 1978, we have been playing an important part in its preservation. Tour Leader: MAS staff. Meet at: The information booth, main concourse. MAP < http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=grand+central+station&fb=1&gl=us&hq=grand+central+stati on&hnear=New+York,+NY&cid=0,0,11435480081754642777&ei=bILJTLzRNcOqlAe70cmuAQ&ved=0CDAQnwIwAQ&ll=40.754572,-73.977256&spn=0.00 7445,0.013797&z=16&iwloc=A> . Suggested donation: $10 per person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RonRice ( talk • contribs) 03:55, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Surely the article should say that this building is "colloquially" called Grand Central Station, not "incorrectly" called Grand Central Station. See the article on Madison Square Garden, for example. Nobody would say that calling MSG "The Garden" is an "incorrect" name. It's a colloquial name. - 24.209.138.219 ( talk) 01:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the change to "colloquially", accepting the nominator's argument though the example is bad. Better nearby examples are West Side Highway, Triborough Bridge, and City of Greater New York. Jim.henderson ( talk) 02:00, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Why doesn't Grand Central Depot have its own article? Khan_singh ( talk) 05:15, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
There's an error in the caption identifying the three figures in the photo of the allegorical "Transportation" sculpture on the exterior facade of the Grand Central Terminal (above the colonnade). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Central_Terminal_NY_Mercury_Statue.jpg
The figure on the left is misidentified as Hercules
Hercules is a hero but he’s not a god. He’s a guy with a 12-item to-do list, requiring only superhuman strength and cunning. His most important achievement was killing the Nemean Lion, so he’s typically shown wearing the lion’s skin, and often shown with the cudgel he used to kill it with. Neither object is visible in this jpg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracles
It would have been an odd choice for the sculptor, Jules Coutan, to make Hercules as prominent as Mercury and Minerva, the other two figures on the pediment.
Mercury was the patron god of financial gain, commerce, eloquence (and thus poetry), messages/communication (including divination), travelers, boundaries, luck, trickery and thieves; he was also the guide of souls to the underworld. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes
Minerva was the goddess of wisdom, courage, inspiration, civilization, law and justice, just warfare, mathematics, strength, strategy, the arts, crafts, and skill. She is also a shrewd companion of heroes and is the goddess of heroic endeavor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena
I believe that the figure on the left is meant to be Vulcan, the god of blacksmiths, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metals, metallurgy, and fire. He is a natural choice to represent the materials, skills, artistry, and strength it took to complete such a massive public project. He is always shown with his anvil and hammer, clearly visible in this jpg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestus
NB: As you can see from the links I provided that describe each character's attributes, I've chosen those relating to the Grecian (earlier) pantheon. As a member of the Academie des Beaux-Arts, would Coutan have chosen Roman style, as was traditional in the Academie, or Grecian style to conform with American taste for Greek Revival? If true, then names should be changed as well, to Heracles, Hermes, Athena, and Hephaestus, instead of Hercules, Mercury, Minerva, and Vulcan
If I'm right, the text of the article needs to be corrected, too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Terminal#Terminal_City Catpat72 ( talk) 22:38, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Other important stations all around the world (like Waterloo in London, or Atocha in Madrid) have the number of passengers per year. Why is not appearing for this station?-- Eltitomac ( talk) 15:24, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
The movement of all long distance trains away from GCT has not been addressed. During the pre-Amtrak era long distance trains, especially those on the NYC lines, and possibly the NH lines had come out of here. Yet into the Amtrak era (until the 1990s or early 2000s) the Hudson River/ Empire Service Amtrak lines continued to terminate here. The fact that they all terminate now at Pennsylvania Station (New York) make that a union station now. Dogru144 ( talk) 19:35, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
According to this link the station also served a Delaware and Hudson Railway line. Should we add the category Stations along Delaware and Hudson Railway lines to this article beneath NYC & NYNH&H cats? --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 20:11, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
In case nobody has noticed, I created a talk page archive for this page and Pennsylvania Station (New York City) on November 6, 2013. Feel free to add and arrange old messages at your own discretion. --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 22:47, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Featuring monumental spaces and meticulously crafted detail... Much of the text sounds like marketing promotional material. :) Just thought I'd mention it. Was the text lifted from public relations and marketing material issued by the MTA, perhaps? Damotclese ( talk) 22:43, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Continuing a prior conversation, I propose that the table of specific track assignments and destinations (i.e. tracks 103-112 are for New Haven, etc) be deleted. I have several concerns.
My edit summary: (Article title & recapitulation in bold in 1st three words adjacent sufficient to establish subject of Infobox image) (And you can add a special explanatory note at the very end of the 1st sentence:
^ Grand Central Terminal is often incorrectly referred to as "Grand Central Station", the name of the adjacent block square U.S. Post Office station located immediately northeast of GCT at 450 Lexington Avenue.[3] In railroading, a "terminal" such as GCT is a passenger and/or freight facility at the end of a rail line which trains enter from and depart in the same direction, whereas a railroad "station" such as Pennsylvania Station is an intermediate facility along a rail line which trains enter, stop, and depart in opposite directions.[4]
Your @ Epicgenius: edit summary: (Undid revision 651485595 by Wikiuser100 (talk): The title is also in the infobox in all other articles about MNRR stations)
Does it need to be: Metro-North_Railroad.
Yours, Wikiuser100 ( talk) 15:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Yours, Wikiuser100 ( talk) 17:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Wikiuser100: The following is my signature: Epic Genius ( talk)
The "name" parameter in the infoboxes in the above linked articles is formatted for Amtrak stations. In Metro-North station articles, the name of the station is in the infobox. For example, see these articles:
and so on and so forth for MNRR stations. Epic Genius ( talk) 21:48, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
This edit reverted, without explanation, an edit that shortened the content of the footnote and moved it down to a place where it made more sense:
I've restored my edit - if there are changes or mistakes people want to make, I'd of course be happy to talk about them... Neutrality talk 18:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Maybe something about this should be added:
http://gothamist.com/2015/10/15/grand_central_computer_video.php#photo-1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.54.39.108 ( talk) 23:44, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
After Buddy Holly's death in a plane crash on February 3, 1959, his bassist and future country singer Waylon Jennings put Buddy's guitar and amplifier into a locker and mailed the keys to Buddy's wife, Maria Elena. [1]
I am not certain if I am missing something, or this line from the "Misc. Events" section was misplaced? -- Zfish118 ⋉ talk 02:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
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Should the photo with the caption "Outline of the general location of Grand Central Terminal tracks and platforms showing that this underground infrastructure encompasses an area of roughly 15 city blocks between 42nd and 49th Streets..." be placed at the right side of the screen as opposed to the left side of the History section? 174.44.155.197 ( talk) 03:34, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Should the photo with the caption "Outline of the general location of Grand Central Terminal tracks and platforms showing that this underground infrastructure encompasses an area of roughly 15 city blocks between 42nd and 49th Streets..." be placed at the right side of the screen as opposed to the left side of the History section? 174.44.155.197 ( talk) 03:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
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On my June 2016 NYC excursion, I rode the Hudson Line back to Grand Central Terminal after taking some pics of more than a few stations, and wound up in a section known as the Biltmore Room. The place has a chalk-written schedule that looks like it hasn't been touched since the days before New York Central Railroad merged with Pennsylvania Railroad. However, my effort to take pictures of that part of the station failed miserably, because most of them turned out like crap. Would anyone else be willing to snap some pics from there? --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 05:33, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
Just to reiterate what was said in the posting explanation - the shuttle platforms are not above the Lexington Av station platforms. The Lex Platforms are east of the shuttle station and are connected by a long passageway (which was intended to be a part of the shuttle station in 1918 but plans changed). Shuttle (original station) - on 42nd St between Park Avenue and Madison Avenue. 42nd St-Grand Central station (Lex Av line) is a diagonal station between Park Av and Lexington Av. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.10 ( talk) 15:49, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
I wanted to field some opinions about including a sentence or two mentioning the Grand Central Terminal Volunteer Fire Brigade as it's pretty unique since I believe they only recruit from people who already work within the building and similar stations like Penn Station don't have anything like it. The members of the brigade are academy trained, and they actually have their own apparatus (including unique ones specially designed for driving through the wide hallways of the station). Since it's such a unique thing I just thought it deserved some mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.169.83.178 ( talk) 17:16, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
I have undone Okhiria91's recent addition of the image File:Grand Central Terminal celing view.jpg. It seems redundant to the lead image, File:Blizzard of 2015- Empty Grand Central Terminal (16377099101).jpg, and doesn't show anything new other than the fact that the recently added image has a picture of a crowd. That particular section in the article has four images already, so I wanted to put this up for discussion. epicgenius ( talk) 20:11, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
-- ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 22:15, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Also - by listing the NYCRR and NY New Haven and Hartford, we're omitting NYCRR's many predecessors and successors Penn Central, Conrail, and Amtrak as historical services. Shouldn't we have a note of this in the infobox, even if we don't give the full s-rail treatment? In general too, I believe s-rail could benefit from listing simple dates of historical, current, and future operations. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 00:04, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Cards and others: I moved some platform/track info into the Track/Platforms section, but things aren't adding up, as it says 67 tracks are in regular MNR use, with 10 storage tracks, etc, and only 69 tracks total... Also, we should make this align with what's in the infobox. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 21:42, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
@ Epicgenius: Are you also thinking of some sub-articles? Do you think it would be better to create one on the history of Grand Central, or two for the two previous stations, or perhaps one for the layout, design, and architecture of the current station building? This article is almost clumsily long, and only growing. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 17:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Ɱ: According to this page of accessible stations, Grand Central has an ADA logo, indicating the station is fully accessible. The source you provided, this page, also says that this is fully ADA-accessible. While it's true that parts of Grand Central aren't accessible, there are ADA-accessible ramps to all platforms, and the ticket booth and waiting rooms are all accessible. As a result, this is a functionally accessible station.
According to the source in the article, This station meets ADA requirements for persons with mobility, visual and hearing impairments. The features available at this station include elevators and ramps, tactile warning strips, tactile signage, TDD, and variable message signs.
The note says *FULL ACCESS stations comply with all requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act and have accessibility features for persons with mobility, visual and hearing impairments. Accessibility at other stations is limited to the features listed.
I did look at the Ossining station's page. There doesn't seem to be a major difference between "Compliant" and "Full Access". But Grand Central isn't listed as "Full Access" because there are some parts of the head house that aren't accessible, such as restrooms. Therefore, we should list the station as "Accessible" with the footnote. epicgenius ( talk) 22:09, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Grand Central has an ADA logo, indicating the station is fully accessible, it's actually just "the station is accessible". So yes, I think we should put "Accessible" in the infobox, which I see you've already done. My complaint, is that "compliant" is unclear to the casual reader. epicgenius ( talk) 13:58, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Cards84664: Sure both images are "fine", but now that the one I added (Option A) has been fixed (brightened, cropped, rotated), it is superior to the old one (Option B) for the following reasons. Option A is not as stretched out, whereas the entire right half of Option B is stretched (the north wall), as well as the west wall. In addition, the iconic ceiling in Option A is much more visible, and the information desk is much less stretched out. You can also see much more of the room in Option A, including the ticket booths and parts of both ends of the terminal, as opposed to just the west end with Option B. Lastly, Option A is a much more iconic view of the concourse, and almost certainly the most-photographed and most-reproduced image of the concourse itself, thus it'll be most recognizable to readers. As well, the view of Option A was the lede image here for ten years. See here in 2007, swapped with duplicate in 2010, and I finally changed it last November.
Pinging @ Epicgenius:, @ Kew Gardens 613:, @ PointsofNoReturn: to ask their opinions here. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 16:20, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Overall, Option B may be better, because I can't un-see that Option A is off-center. Sure, Option A is cleaned up from the original version, but I think it needs to be cropped on the right side. epicgenius ( talk) 16:27, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Is 11 years enough of a wait to give GA status another try? Cards84664 (talk) 17:54, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This stub contains partially incorrect information that requires a page fix - as a Wikipedia novice and someone in a rush right now, I'm uncertain how to do it. " Grand Central Depot," "Grand Central Station," and "Grand Central Terminal" are effectively three different buildings on one plot of land. GCD was built in the 1870s (1872, I think). In the late 1890s (completed in 1898, I think) the headhouse was pretty much demolished (it was expanded from 3 to 6 stories and an entirely new facade put on it) but the train shed (a balloon shed spanning all the tracks) was kept. This was GCS. Starting in 1905 and finishing in 1911 or 1912, the entire building was torndown in phases and replaced by the current GCT. This work was accompanied by the electrification of the three railroads using the station and the burial of the approach in the Park Avenue tunnel.
So, either the name of the page is wrong or we need different pages for the different buildings - Donald Friedman
Thanks for the save. I'll flesh it out shortly. DF
I just read through this article. Wow! Other than the one-sentence paragraphs in the Layout section and the lack of a building schematic, this could easily be a featured article. I'll look through the references that I've got at home to see if I can find anything to add to it (I remember a Trains Magazine article about the station a couple years ago, and I saw something on the History Channel about that time too...). slambo 18:20, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
There are a number of references to the PanAM building in the article. In the mid 1990's the building was sold and was renamed the MetLife Building. I have updated the article accordingly. -- Allan 20:06, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I am a french reader of this encyclopedia and I was searching for an information about Grand Central Terminal. I would like to know how many people pass through Grand Central Station each day, each months, each year and unfortunatly I have not seen the information in the article. Someone knows? Sorry for my bad english and thank you.
Another thing : maybe It will be possible to add to the article informations about Grand Central Station in popular culture? Movies, books, music, advertising? 11 september, 17h00.
Statistics about the number of daily visitors is on this page, which is linked from the article: http://www.waltlockley.com/cgt/gct.htm -- Lockley 19:31, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for your answer Lockley. And I see that a new section "Grand Central Station in popular culture" has appeared since my suggestion above. Great ! A very good article. fr:Utilisateur:Kuxu
Regarding the recent change of Image:Grand Central Terminal main concourse.jpg to Image:Grand_Central_Terminal_Inside_New_York_City_Long.jpg, I find the latter to be more illustrative of the ceiling, but overall less illustrative since it is a night shot and a darker image. Maybe we will have to wait until the window and exterior restoration is complete to get a bright illustrative day shot. Comments? -- ChrisRuvolo ( t) 15:09, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
It would be great if somebody could post photos of the terminal before restoration (e.g., the colorama and host of advertisements. Also, does anybody have a photos of the pre-computer board. Americasroof 02:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I was watching Jane's New York (hosted by Jane Hanson) on WNBC-TV today. The show was Underground New York ( video introduction) and culminated in a guided tour with a GCT historian of an underground sub-basement. The historian claimed that it was far below the lower track level, and an elevator was shown descending to it. The historian said that the room was preserved in its original 1913 fittings. It had control devices, switching devices, and electrical devices. Apparently during WWII, the existance of the sub-based became a national security secret, because if someone sabotaged the electrical systems all troop movements in the Northeast U.S. would come to a halt. The historian claimed that the existance of the sub-basement was one of the best-kept secrets of New York.
Also, they said that there was a system of ropes that were strung up in the tunnels leading to GCT before there was an electric switching system. When a train broke down in a tunnel, the engineer pulled a rope along the track, which alerted the switching room that there was a problem. Ropes were connected to a bell and a tickertape output.
Can anyone confirm these reports? -- ChrisRuvolo ( t) 05:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
The "sub-basement" in question is actually clearly marked on the high-resolution image of the "Suburban Level" tracks. (The image has been on the article for some time)
It's actually known as the "Trucking Subway". --"Subway", in this case, being the British definition of the word (what Americans typically call a "pedestrian underpass"); and "Trucking", in this case, referring to hand-trucks-- It was once used extensively by intercity railroads for the efficient transfer of passengers' baggage.
Since only commuter services now call at Grand Central Terminal, the Trucking Subway is seldom used nowadays, and is now often occupied by " Mole People" (homeless persons that have taken up residence in abandoned underground structures). I am unable to confirm the popular belief that it was a strategic target in World War II; although it is not unlikely since it is often referred to by Mole People as "Burma Road", which is clearly a WWII reference. Pine 00:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed this image from the bottom of the page for a number of reasons and it has been reverted back by Keo who suggested that I bring it to the talk page. My reasoning was this:
1. There is no citation or reference that the American flag was hung in the terminal after September 11 (or specifically because of 9/11). I did a google search to see if I could find a page that supported this claim but was not able to find anything.
2. The image is basically a duplicate of the lead image in terms of the view. It doesn't really show anything that the existing image does not, except that if anything it does a poorer job of showing the expansiveness of the terminal. Although it is hardly a deal-breaker, we also frown on the use of watermarks within the image on wikipedia, and this image has a prominent copyright notice at the bottom.
3. It is extremely unencyclopedic and NPOV. The title of the image is GodBlessAmerica.jpg (NPOV), it is black and white aside from the American flag in color (which is very misleading for a modern encyclopedia - the image should be in color and only historical images need be B&W). Such a show of patriotism is a bit over the top for an article about the Grand Central Terminal. Yes, if it is true that the flag was hung as a result of the 9/11 attacks, then it should be mentioned in the article and cited, as that is relevent to the article, but this image is simply not NPOV enough in my opinion, despite the fact that it is artistic and emotional. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 10:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0512/feature6/gallery2.html http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0512/feature6/images/gallery.6.2.jpg
Is there any reason for this photo? The blurriness makes it kind of arty, but that's not what we need.
Further, I have doubts about it being encyclopedic here. It doesn't convey any information that isn't in the lead photo, nor is there any reference to the station looking signficantly different at night. Daniel Case 15:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. LuciferMorgan 00:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I think the stats should be footnote cited and dated, probably using ref tags. It would be very easy for a number like % of lost item returns to change and not be noticed. -- 68.160.160.108 02:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
This article is currently under Good Article Review. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LuciferMorgan ( talk • contribs) 04:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC).
MNCX 002: Mystery train car, super heavily reinforced, in an underground facility near the infamous M42 facility under Grand Central Terminal. Reported on the History Channel, "Cities of the Underworld: New York", 2007, aired November 25, 2007, 8:00-9:00 pm MST. LanceBarber ( talk) 03:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I think it's about time a station infobox is added to the article. An infobox would allow us to bring the train service info (currently located at the very bottom of the page) to the top of the page for easy viewing. Some other info could be added in there as well. For example, if we can find some info on how many tracks and platforms are in the station, we could add them in there. As for a picture to add to the top of the infobox, I was thinking of using one of the pictures already in the article. Give your suggestions. Murjax ( talk) 03:13, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
People sometimes jokingly answer a busy phone "Grand Central Station!" What does this have to do exactly with a NYC train station? - Rolypolyman ( talk) 01:30, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
what about the frozen people performance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwMj3PJDxuo i am trying to find more information about this and i thought it should be here-- Nauki ( talk) 12:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
This BBC news clip might interest. Not sure if it's noteworthy. -- Tagishsimon (talk) 23:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Just to point out for those who keep thinking station is correct, it's not. "Terminal" is a railroad stop where trains terminate, or end the line. "Station" is a railroad stop where trains go through the line. No train goes through Grand Central. It is incorrect to call it station. The workers and MTA make a big deal about this, albeit trivial discourse in semantics. Notice that Penn Station is still called "Station" because the Amtrak goes through it despite the fact that the NJT and LIRR terminate there. Justin Tokke ( talk) 13:34, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
This discussion reminds me of the movie "The Inside Man" where Clive Owen's character asks the trick question as to what weighs more, the number of trains that pass through Grand Central Station or the number of trees cut down every year to print US money. The answer is they both weigh the same, nothing, since no train passes through Grand Central Station (the post office) and US money is made from cotton, not paper. However, there was some debate in the movie that the North Line does pass through GCT, but others asserted all trains terminated there anyway. Does anyone know the definitive answer? 150.203.110.18 ( talk) 09:51, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm an inexperienced Wikipedia commenter with experience writing about New York architecture. I'm a co-author of New York 1900, which is included in the page's bibliography.
I'd like to see the page start with a different tone, but I was hesitant about simply making such a large change. I think it would be better to have more about the quality of the architecture and the experience while being less quantitative in the beginning. Grand Central is one of the great civic monuments not only of New York but of the Western world, and it functions perfectly as a gateway to New York that announces that you have arrived in a great city. After all it's called "Grand Central Terminal," not "44 Platform & 67 Track Central Terminal."
There could also be more discussion about how the visitor experiences the station and is naturally led through it, about the quality of the architecture (it's monumentality, the simple but grand details, technological innovation like the windows at each end, etc.), and about the relationship of Reed & Stem and Warren & Wetmore, why W & W were involved after R & S won the competition (Whitney Warren was Commodore Vanderbilt's cousin), and how much W & W improved the grandeur of Grand Central Terminal.
Those additions are easier to make than suggesting a whole new introduction, which is why I wanted to start at the Discussions Page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmassengale ( talk • contribs) 05:33, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
I am new and inexperienced to Wiki, too, but I totally agree with Mr. Massengale. I love the way we are led into or out of the building via sloping ramps that Slow you down as you are eager to run to work, or help you run faster to catch the train, or help you run down the slope to enter the building. Great architectural features you don't realize until you think about them! You Go, GCT! RonRice ( talk) 04:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
This needs to be thinned. There's too many examples in general (per WP:TRIVIA), and most films mentioned have maybe one short scene in the terminal; it's not a featured location critical to the plot. That's what should be the criteria for inclusion. Any ideas of which films should be included and which should be tossed? oknazevad ( talk) 20:14, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
The attribution to Helleu for GCT's sky ceiling appears in error, on this page and on Helleu's wiki page. It seems clear from proof below that the GCT's ceiling was painted by James "Monroe" Hewlett, not Helleu. Please see below, and see if we can get these 2 WIKI websites changed. I am new to Wiki editing so I do not know how to format this properly. Sorry. I hope someone out there will see it and help. Thanks, Ron
Forwarded below is "proof" to MAS, with Hewlett's granddaughter's, Lesea Newman's permission. Lesea is willing to discuss it, if asked. I think this would be a great page to add to your website to Promote Good History and Kill Bad. In fact you could use these emails to easily make it a Q&A page with photos. Thanks, Ron Rice
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 Subject: RE: JMH GC Terminal's sky ceiling From Lesea Newman About the Grand Central Station Sky-ceiling. I hope this does the job, but as we both know, bad history is hard to kill. Charles Basing was originally from Australia. I don't know much about him. Gulbrandson worked with JMH too. His grandson was working with John Canning Painting Studios on the latest version of the ceiling.
Although I have articles that credit JMH and articles that credit Helleu, I think the final word is
'1.'Grand Central: Gateway to a Million Lives by John Belle and Maxine R. Leighton W.W. Norton and Co. 2000. On p. 57 it says, "Conceived by Warren and his friend, the French portraitist Paul Helleu, the mural was the creation of J. Monroe Hewlett and Charles Basing. Corps of astronomers and painting assistants worked with Hewlett and Basing."
2. "Hartford Courant" March 2, 1997 "The original 1913 ceiling was designed by muralist and architect J. Monroe Hewlett." Story by Mary K. Feeney starts on p. 1.
3. This article is quite definitive. Contract Interiors 1945 Feb., v. 104 p. 54-57. Over Your Head and Under Your Nose, The year's largest redecorating job. P. 55 "Mr. Helleu suggested an astronomical mural and sent a few rough sketches, but contrary to popular belief he did not make the final cartoon, shown on these pages, nor did he oversee the actual painting. The latter was the work of J. Monroe Hewlett, with considerable assistance from a few professional astronomers and a corps of young assistants."
4. N.Y. Herald Tribune, Fri., August 18, 1944. ".....followed the design of J. Monroe Hewlett....."
5. John Canning Painting Studios who restored the ceiling in 1998, also gave JMH credit in their promotional literature. The Project: Grand Central Terminal, Sky Mural etc. "Designed by J. Monroe Hewlett, arcitect and muralist. Charles Bassing, architect and artist who painted the ceiling."
6. I also confirmed this in a report written by Deborah Rau, an architectural historian and former BBBelle employee, as part of her doctoral thesis. It is included as an addendum to the official Historic Structure Report for GCT. It is the definitive history of the GCT sky ceiling and was the source for the information included in the book by John Belle and Maxinne Leighton. Frank J. Prial Jr. AIA Associate Beyer Blinder Belle
7. Page 172 of the the MAS book, 110 Architectural Walks in Manhattan'''''', credits the cartoons and execution to Hewlett.
I also sent this proof to MAS, so they will correct their webiste artilce they posted.
Star Gazing in Grand Central - MAS November 11th, 2010, 5:41 pm < http://mas.org/star-gazing-in-grand-central/> On Monday, the stars in Grand Central Terminal’s sky ceiling were once again shining. For several months, electricians have been installing energy efficient LED lights, which are now burning bright, just in time for the holiday season. Having helped save Grand Central Terminal in the 1970s < http://mas.org/awards/jkomedal/#grandcentral> , we at MAS are particularly pleased that the mural painted by Paul Cesar Helleu in 1913, has not only been preserved, but also updated with the latest efficient technology available. Originally, the mural depicting the zodiac used incandescent bulbs to light the 59 largest stars in the constellation, but changing the bulbs in the 125-foot ceiling proved to be a difficult, and labor intensive, feat. When the mural was restored in 1997, a fiber optic lighting system was put in place, but within ten years, many of those lights had dimmed or faded out. Last year, MAS urged the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) to fix the lighting system as it is such an important part of the terminal’s history. “We applaud the MTA for heeding our advice, and once again casting light on this iconic work of art. The newly installed LED lights are not only functional, using about 60% less energy than the fiber optics and lasting five years, but they also serve as a great example of how preservation and sustainability can be thoughtfully integrated,” said MAS President Vin Cipolla. Whether passing through the terminal or rushing to get a train, take a moment to look up at the stars. You can also admire the new and improved sky ceiling during one of MAS’ weekly Wednesday 12:30 walking tour of Grand Central Terminal < http://www.mas.org/tours> . http://mas.org/star-gazing-in-grand-central/ < http://mas.org/star-gazing-in-grand-central/> Star Gazing in Grand Central Grand Central Terminal Every Wednesday, 12:30 p.m. – 2:00 p.m. Municipal Art Society has been giving tours of this magnificent Beaux-Arts landmark for a quarter-century, and since 1978, we have been playing an important part in its preservation. Tour Leader: MAS staff. Meet at: The information booth, main concourse. MAP < http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=grand+central+station&fb=1&gl=us&hq=grand+central+stati on&hnear=New+York,+NY&cid=0,0,11435480081754642777&ei=bILJTLzRNcOqlAe70cmuAQ&ved=0CDAQnwIwAQ&ll=40.754572,-73.977256&spn=0.00 7445,0.013797&z=16&iwloc=A> . Suggested donation: $10 per person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RonRice ( talk • contribs) 03:55, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Surely the article should say that this building is "colloquially" called Grand Central Station, not "incorrectly" called Grand Central Station. See the article on Madison Square Garden, for example. Nobody would say that calling MSG "The Garden" is an "incorrect" name. It's a colloquial name. - 24.209.138.219 ( talk) 01:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the change to "colloquially", accepting the nominator's argument though the example is bad. Better nearby examples are West Side Highway, Triborough Bridge, and City of Greater New York. Jim.henderson ( talk) 02:00, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Why doesn't Grand Central Depot have its own article? Khan_singh ( talk) 05:15, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
There's an error in the caption identifying the three figures in the photo of the allegorical "Transportation" sculpture on the exterior facade of the Grand Central Terminal (above the colonnade). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Central_Terminal_NY_Mercury_Statue.jpg
The figure on the left is misidentified as Hercules
Hercules is a hero but he’s not a god. He’s a guy with a 12-item to-do list, requiring only superhuman strength and cunning. His most important achievement was killing the Nemean Lion, so he’s typically shown wearing the lion’s skin, and often shown with the cudgel he used to kill it with. Neither object is visible in this jpg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracles
It would have been an odd choice for the sculptor, Jules Coutan, to make Hercules as prominent as Mercury and Minerva, the other two figures on the pediment.
Mercury was the patron god of financial gain, commerce, eloquence (and thus poetry), messages/communication (including divination), travelers, boundaries, luck, trickery and thieves; he was also the guide of souls to the underworld. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes
Minerva was the goddess of wisdom, courage, inspiration, civilization, law and justice, just warfare, mathematics, strength, strategy, the arts, crafts, and skill. She is also a shrewd companion of heroes and is the goddess of heroic endeavor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena
I believe that the figure on the left is meant to be Vulcan, the god of blacksmiths, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metals, metallurgy, and fire. He is a natural choice to represent the materials, skills, artistry, and strength it took to complete such a massive public project. He is always shown with his anvil and hammer, clearly visible in this jpg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestus
NB: As you can see from the links I provided that describe each character's attributes, I've chosen those relating to the Grecian (earlier) pantheon. As a member of the Academie des Beaux-Arts, would Coutan have chosen Roman style, as was traditional in the Academie, or Grecian style to conform with American taste for Greek Revival? If true, then names should be changed as well, to Heracles, Hermes, Athena, and Hephaestus, instead of Hercules, Mercury, Minerva, and Vulcan
If I'm right, the text of the article needs to be corrected, too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Terminal#Terminal_City Catpat72 ( talk) 22:38, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Other important stations all around the world (like Waterloo in London, or Atocha in Madrid) have the number of passengers per year. Why is not appearing for this station?-- Eltitomac ( talk) 15:24, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
The movement of all long distance trains away from GCT has not been addressed. During the pre-Amtrak era long distance trains, especially those on the NYC lines, and possibly the NH lines had come out of here. Yet into the Amtrak era (until the 1990s or early 2000s) the Hudson River/ Empire Service Amtrak lines continued to terminate here. The fact that they all terminate now at Pennsylvania Station (New York) make that a union station now. Dogru144 ( talk) 19:35, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
According to this link the station also served a Delaware and Hudson Railway line. Should we add the category Stations along Delaware and Hudson Railway lines to this article beneath NYC & NYNH&H cats? --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 20:11, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
In case nobody has noticed, I created a talk page archive for this page and Pennsylvania Station (New York City) on November 6, 2013. Feel free to add and arrange old messages at your own discretion. --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 22:47, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Featuring monumental spaces and meticulously crafted detail... Much of the text sounds like marketing promotional material. :) Just thought I'd mention it. Was the text lifted from public relations and marketing material issued by the MTA, perhaps? Damotclese ( talk) 22:43, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Continuing a prior conversation, I propose that the table of specific track assignments and destinations (i.e. tracks 103-112 are for New Haven, etc) be deleted. I have several concerns.
My edit summary: (Article title & recapitulation in bold in 1st three words adjacent sufficient to establish subject of Infobox image) (And you can add a special explanatory note at the very end of the 1st sentence:
^ Grand Central Terminal is often incorrectly referred to as "Grand Central Station", the name of the adjacent block square U.S. Post Office station located immediately northeast of GCT at 450 Lexington Avenue.[3] In railroading, a "terminal" such as GCT is a passenger and/or freight facility at the end of a rail line which trains enter from and depart in the same direction, whereas a railroad "station" such as Pennsylvania Station is an intermediate facility along a rail line which trains enter, stop, and depart in opposite directions.[4]
Your @ Epicgenius: edit summary: (Undid revision 651485595 by Wikiuser100 (talk): The title is also in the infobox in all other articles about MNRR stations)
Does it need to be: Metro-North_Railroad.
Yours, Wikiuser100 ( talk) 15:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Yours, Wikiuser100 ( talk) 17:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Wikiuser100: The following is my signature: Epic Genius ( talk)
The "name" parameter in the infoboxes in the above linked articles is formatted for Amtrak stations. In Metro-North station articles, the name of the station is in the infobox. For example, see these articles:
and so on and so forth for MNRR stations. Epic Genius ( talk) 21:48, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
This edit reverted, without explanation, an edit that shortened the content of the footnote and moved it down to a place where it made more sense:
I've restored my edit - if there are changes or mistakes people want to make, I'd of course be happy to talk about them... Neutrality talk 18:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Maybe something about this should be added:
http://gothamist.com/2015/10/15/grand_central_computer_video.php#photo-1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.54.39.108 ( talk) 23:44, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
After Buddy Holly's death in a plane crash on February 3, 1959, his bassist and future country singer Waylon Jennings put Buddy's guitar and amplifier into a locker and mailed the keys to Buddy's wife, Maria Elena. [1]
I am not certain if I am missing something, or this line from the "Misc. Events" section was misplaced? -- Zfish118 ⋉ talk 02:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
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Should the photo with the caption "Outline of the general location of Grand Central Terminal tracks and platforms showing that this underground infrastructure encompasses an area of roughly 15 city blocks between 42nd and 49th Streets..." be placed at the right side of the screen as opposed to the left side of the History section? 174.44.155.197 ( talk) 03:34, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Should the photo with the caption "Outline of the general location of Grand Central Terminal tracks and platforms showing that this underground infrastructure encompasses an area of roughly 15 city blocks between 42nd and 49th Streets..." be placed at the right side of the screen as opposed to the left side of the History section? 174.44.155.197 ( talk) 03:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
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On my June 2016 NYC excursion, I rode the Hudson Line back to Grand Central Terminal after taking some pics of more than a few stations, and wound up in a section known as the Biltmore Room. The place has a chalk-written schedule that looks like it hasn't been touched since the days before New York Central Railroad merged with Pennsylvania Railroad. However, my effort to take pictures of that part of the station failed miserably, because most of them turned out like crap. Would anyone else be willing to snap some pics from there? --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 05:33, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
Just to reiterate what was said in the posting explanation - the shuttle platforms are not above the Lexington Av station platforms. The Lex Platforms are east of the shuttle station and are connected by a long passageway (which was intended to be a part of the shuttle station in 1918 but plans changed). Shuttle (original station) - on 42nd St between Park Avenue and Madison Avenue. 42nd St-Grand Central station (Lex Av line) is a diagonal station between Park Av and Lexington Av. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.10 ( talk) 15:49, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
I wanted to field some opinions about including a sentence or two mentioning the Grand Central Terminal Volunteer Fire Brigade as it's pretty unique since I believe they only recruit from people who already work within the building and similar stations like Penn Station don't have anything like it. The members of the brigade are academy trained, and they actually have their own apparatus (including unique ones specially designed for driving through the wide hallways of the station). Since it's such a unique thing I just thought it deserved some mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.169.83.178 ( talk) 17:16, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
I have undone Okhiria91's recent addition of the image File:Grand Central Terminal celing view.jpg. It seems redundant to the lead image, File:Blizzard of 2015- Empty Grand Central Terminal (16377099101).jpg, and doesn't show anything new other than the fact that the recently added image has a picture of a crowd. That particular section in the article has four images already, so I wanted to put this up for discussion. epicgenius ( talk) 20:11, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
-- ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 22:15, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Also - by listing the NYCRR and NY New Haven and Hartford, we're omitting NYCRR's many predecessors and successors Penn Central, Conrail, and Amtrak as historical services. Shouldn't we have a note of this in the infobox, even if we don't give the full s-rail treatment? In general too, I believe s-rail could benefit from listing simple dates of historical, current, and future operations. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 00:04, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Cards and others: I moved some platform/track info into the Track/Platforms section, but things aren't adding up, as it says 67 tracks are in regular MNR use, with 10 storage tracks, etc, and only 69 tracks total... Also, we should make this align with what's in the infobox. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 21:42, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
@ Epicgenius: Are you also thinking of some sub-articles? Do you think it would be better to create one on the history of Grand Central, or two for the two previous stations, or perhaps one for the layout, design, and architecture of the current station building? This article is almost clumsily long, and only growing. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 17:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Ɱ: According to this page of accessible stations, Grand Central has an ADA logo, indicating the station is fully accessible. The source you provided, this page, also says that this is fully ADA-accessible. While it's true that parts of Grand Central aren't accessible, there are ADA-accessible ramps to all platforms, and the ticket booth and waiting rooms are all accessible. As a result, this is a functionally accessible station.
According to the source in the article, This station meets ADA requirements for persons with mobility, visual and hearing impairments. The features available at this station include elevators and ramps, tactile warning strips, tactile signage, TDD, and variable message signs.
The note says *FULL ACCESS stations comply with all requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act and have accessibility features for persons with mobility, visual and hearing impairments. Accessibility at other stations is limited to the features listed.
I did look at the Ossining station's page. There doesn't seem to be a major difference between "Compliant" and "Full Access". But Grand Central isn't listed as "Full Access" because there are some parts of the head house that aren't accessible, such as restrooms. Therefore, we should list the station as "Accessible" with the footnote. epicgenius ( talk) 22:09, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Grand Central has an ADA logo, indicating the station is fully accessible, it's actually just "the station is accessible". So yes, I think we should put "Accessible" in the infobox, which I see you've already done. My complaint, is that "compliant" is unclear to the casual reader. epicgenius ( talk) 13:58, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Cards84664: Sure both images are "fine", but now that the one I added (Option A) has been fixed (brightened, cropped, rotated), it is superior to the old one (Option B) for the following reasons. Option A is not as stretched out, whereas the entire right half of Option B is stretched (the north wall), as well as the west wall. In addition, the iconic ceiling in Option A is much more visible, and the information desk is much less stretched out. You can also see much more of the room in Option A, including the ticket booths and parts of both ends of the terminal, as opposed to just the west end with Option B. Lastly, Option A is a much more iconic view of the concourse, and almost certainly the most-photographed and most-reproduced image of the concourse itself, thus it'll be most recognizable to readers. As well, the view of Option A was the lede image here for ten years. See here in 2007, swapped with duplicate in 2010, and I finally changed it last November.
Pinging @ Epicgenius:, @ Kew Gardens 613:, @ PointsofNoReturn: to ask their opinions here. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 16:20, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Overall, Option B may be better, because I can't un-see that Option A is off-center. Sure, Option A is cleaned up from the original version, but I think it needs to be cropped on the right side. epicgenius ( talk) 16:27, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Is 11 years enough of a wait to give GA status another try? Cards84664 (talk) 17:54, 12 December 2018 (UTC)