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Goji article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Goji was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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The problem with the term "Asia" is that it refers to a vast region and doesn't give clear specificity of the actual range(s) of origin. A plurality of sources do not agree that such a broad swath from S.E. Europe to E. Asia represents its native range. For example, an older version of Malus domestica gives a confusing mention of both Turkey and Kazakhstan, while the newer version winnows it more accurately to one region, namely S. Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Xinjiang.
I would suggest using GRIN as a more up-to-date source. The article should be updated accordingly. Facial ( talk) 23:03, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
How can there be no health benefits? In this modern age where science has shown antioxidants as very useful to protect against free radicals and macular degeneration. It's not even disputed by any reputable institution that antioxidants like beta carotene, etc are important to protest against DNA damage from oxidative stress. And Goji berries have a very high level of antioxidants as well as vitamin C and melatonin. Obviously there are health benefits in those fruits. The issue is that previous article was making it seem like there are no scientific studies showing that Goji berries increase antioxidants in blood and protect against oxidative stress. And all claims (not some) are wrong. Despite as of 2022, there are a number of studies showing that they do have health benefits. Not all of them are scams or exaggerated claims. It's not disputed that Goji berries have high antioxidants levels And studies have shown concrete benefits to them. I recently added in 2 studies and mentioned the Berries have high antioxidants levels as they were completely absent in previous Article. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/goji-berry#benefits 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 15:48, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21169874/
Another randomized controlled study with 114 subjects who had early macular degeneration, found that daily goji berry supplements had improved the density of macular pigment.
A 2018 professional study also concluded that extracts of L. barbarum (Goji berries) had shown "potent free radical scavenging activity" and protected against DNA damage caused by free radicals. It suggested that suggested that L. barbarum extracts could be used as dietary supplements to reduce the harmful effects of oxidative stress in athletes after intensive exercise.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5977381/ 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 16:48, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
@MrOllie I don't want an edit war so am addressing this here. I removed original research claiming that as of 2018, there have been zero clinical studies showing any benefits in Goji berries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Goji&diff=1068098575
Because it is wrong as , the given sources does not say that at all. Secondly the given sources are like from 2007 and are heavily outdated and cannot support that statement at all. It is original research to go make a claim when none of the Given sources are actually saying those exact words.
Lastly it is also a false claim. In 2018, there have been well designed clinical studies confirming benefits from Goji.
A 2018 study concluded that extracts of L. barbarum (Goji berries) had shown "potent free radical scavenging activity" and protected against DNA damage caused by free radicals. It suggested that suggested that L. barbarum extracts could be used as dietary supplements to reduce the harmful effects of oxidative stress in athletes after intensive exercise.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5977381/
Also we know that Goji has vitamin A and C which is good for iron absorption and eye health. Clinical studies on vitamin C literally recommend that children and adults have a minimum intake of these vitamins because they are very helpful to the body. There are many clinical studies showing that Goji is high in vitamin C so the statement that Goji berries components haven't been confirmed as helpful, is not Just original research but false information. 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 17:49, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Give me a source that says (AS OF 2018) no clinical benefits have been found. None of the sources says that as of 2018, no clinical benefits had been found.
None of the sources are even from 2018 let alone actually say that entire statement. Show me a source that specifically mention 2018. It is original research to say something that the sources are not saying 2018. 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 18:06, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5977381/
So if you think it is not original research and or the 2018 study is wrong, then we Just cannot agree on talk and so I am fine to take this to further channels. As Don't want to waste my time arguing with someone who seems invested in defending an original research and claiming that proper randomised controlled studies are not permitted on Wikipedia, despite I know that's wrong. 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 18:17, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
For a food article, there need to be mention that Goji berries have high levels of antioxidants, vitamin C and A, as well as iron and fiber. Why is such information forbidden?
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Goji&diff=1068113113
It's not even disputed by anyone that Goji berries have high levels of antioxidants and vitamin C, etc. Removing the information because WebMD is apparently banned for Wikipedia. Is arbitrary and questionable.
I also like to ask for an exception as it is highly unlikely that WebMD will lie about this. No reason at all. Other websites also say the same thing. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/goji-berry#benefits
They are reliable sources that have no reason to lie about the obvious facts that Goji berries have lots of iron, vitamin C and A, etc. And my edit should be included back in. 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 18:25, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
49.195.2.162 ( talk) 01:50, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
And I think you are just confusing medicine with food. A healthy diet isn't formally medicine, yet it still protects against many diseases. Eating enough fiber helps with diabetes as it slows the absorption of sugar. Eating enough anti-inflammatory natural antixoxidants, helps to reduce excess free radicals. Making sure you have enough vitamin C prevents scurvy.
Goji is simply a single holistic tool that allows diabetic people to reach a healthy diet that has properties that help maintain good sugar levels and ease oxidation damage etc. There is a nuance that certain healthy food can help prevent illnesses or worsening conditions that typically occur from unhealthy diets.
Controlled research with good methodology, shows people with macular degeneration and Diabetics who eat goji, also fare better than those who don't. So there's promise that they can play a key role in helping people.
Example is a systematic review which showed Goji Berry (Lycium barbarum) has the potential to be effective in the treatment of diabetes Mellitus.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319200037_Goji_Berry_Lycium_Barbarum_in_the_treatment_of_diabetes_melitus_a_systematic_review 49.186.234.210 ( talk) 05:55, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321007006_Nutritional_evaluation_of_fresh_and_dried_goji_berries_cultivated_in_Italy 49.195.81.81 ( talk) 04:28, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
I did put in a discussions to add in basic nutrition information. So many top sources like Italian scientists and USDA are saying the same thing. I wanted to add them in except I waited over 10 days and still nobody replied. That's stonewalling where you just revert edits and then tell others to wait for consensus. And Not reply back for over a week.
Yet I am correct. Italian in-depth analysis showed the Berries provide significant amounts of dietary fibre and zeaxanthin and can be declared on the label as a potential source of vitamins E and C. I don't believe they would lie.
Secondly USDA doesn't just trust anyone. They likely reviewed the source and judged it as reliable enough to put it in their official database.. I already stated that reasoning on Talk but what I don't approve is being told to wait for discussion to end, yet I waited patiently for over a week just for a reply. That is wrong.
You need to explain and show proof that USDA is irresponsible. I don't believe they would publish data for Goji berries and not check the sources beforehand. They're not that incompetent. Additional Italian scientists also confirms much of what USDA is saying. Are they all lying?
In March/April of 2013, I did a makeover of the nutrition info boxes for as many foods as I could. As I did this, I noticed what appeared to be a repetition of images of vials of extracts/oils. Most of these images were added in 2013 by one user User:Itineranttrader.
User contributions for Iterinanttrader
The first issue I have with these images is that they are pointless. It's virtually the same image of a vial with a slightly different color, but what I found unencylopedic, is that at the time, I was able to ascertain that the user had (and STILL has) at least one website where such vials of extracts and oils were sold. So to me, this is more of a quasi advertisement than it is a valuable addition to any of the articles thusly modified. It has a spammy quality to it.
I know, it took me ten years to post this, but in 2013 I saw that someone has started a discussion on the matter, so I lost interest and moved on.
Somehow this user was able to come along and promote his business in a very slick way. I hope someone with a proper gatekeeping stance will take this up. I'm tempted to just delete the image out of a trial page just to see what the response would be, but that doesn't sound like the best approach.
User:zefr I remember your diligence when it came to people making changes inappropriately. I'm hoping you get to see this and respond in some way.
An example website using the same image, with the same username — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chango369w ( talk • contribs) 15:36, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
49.195.81.81 ( talk) 08:20, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Also I explained that USDA doesn't just trust anyone and they're speculating that USDA is irresponsible.. Obviously USDA doesn't just trust anyone and recognise the source as reliable enough to be published on their database that informs the public. 49.195.81.81 ( talk) 13:07, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Fresh goji berries have 77.4 % moisture, 1.1 % fats, 2.5 % proteins, 15.3 % carbohydrates and 2.9 % fibre. In dried goji berries, 4.4 % fats, 10.2% proteins, 61.3 % carbohydrates and 11.4 % fibre were found. Similar results on dried goji were reported by ENDES et al. 49.195.81.81 ( talk) 13:24, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
I have fully protected the article for 24 hours to stop sustained edit warring on this article. If you cannot come to agreement, seek a third opinion or dispute resolution. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:05, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
per official classification, it is seen that "wolfberry" is for various specis of Lucium, not only goij. It also says that barbarum is called "matrimony vine". Staszek Lem ( talk) 18:19, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Goji article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
Goji was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||
The problem with the term "Asia" is that it refers to a vast region and doesn't give clear specificity of the actual range(s) of origin. A plurality of sources do not agree that such a broad swath from S.E. Europe to E. Asia represents its native range. For example, an older version of Malus domestica gives a confusing mention of both Turkey and Kazakhstan, while the newer version winnows it more accurately to one region, namely S. Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Xinjiang.
I would suggest using GRIN as a more up-to-date source. The article should be updated accordingly. Facial ( talk) 23:03, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
How can there be no health benefits? In this modern age where science has shown antioxidants as very useful to protect against free radicals and macular degeneration. It's not even disputed by any reputable institution that antioxidants like beta carotene, etc are important to protest against DNA damage from oxidative stress. And Goji berries have a very high level of antioxidants as well as vitamin C and melatonin. Obviously there are health benefits in those fruits. The issue is that previous article was making it seem like there are no scientific studies showing that Goji berries increase antioxidants in blood and protect against oxidative stress. And all claims (not some) are wrong. Despite as of 2022, there are a number of studies showing that they do have health benefits. Not all of them are scams or exaggerated claims. It's not disputed that Goji berries have high antioxidants levels And studies have shown concrete benefits to them. I recently added in 2 studies and mentioned the Berries have high antioxidants levels as they were completely absent in previous Article. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/goji-berry#benefits 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 15:48, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21169874/
Another randomized controlled study with 114 subjects who had early macular degeneration, found that daily goji berry supplements had improved the density of macular pigment.
A 2018 professional study also concluded that extracts of L. barbarum (Goji berries) had shown "potent free radical scavenging activity" and protected against DNA damage caused by free radicals. It suggested that suggested that L. barbarum extracts could be used as dietary supplements to reduce the harmful effects of oxidative stress in athletes after intensive exercise.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5977381/ 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 16:48, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
@MrOllie I don't want an edit war so am addressing this here. I removed original research claiming that as of 2018, there have been zero clinical studies showing any benefits in Goji berries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Goji&diff=1068098575
Because it is wrong as , the given sources does not say that at all. Secondly the given sources are like from 2007 and are heavily outdated and cannot support that statement at all. It is original research to go make a claim when none of the Given sources are actually saying those exact words.
Lastly it is also a false claim. In 2018, there have been well designed clinical studies confirming benefits from Goji.
A 2018 study concluded that extracts of L. barbarum (Goji berries) had shown "potent free radical scavenging activity" and protected against DNA damage caused by free radicals. It suggested that suggested that L. barbarum extracts could be used as dietary supplements to reduce the harmful effects of oxidative stress in athletes after intensive exercise.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5977381/
Also we know that Goji has vitamin A and C which is good for iron absorption and eye health. Clinical studies on vitamin C literally recommend that children and adults have a minimum intake of these vitamins because they are very helpful to the body. There are many clinical studies showing that Goji is high in vitamin C so the statement that Goji berries components haven't been confirmed as helpful, is not Just original research but false information. 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 17:49, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Give me a source that says (AS OF 2018) no clinical benefits have been found. None of the sources says that as of 2018, no clinical benefits had been found.
None of the sources are even from 2018 let alone actually say that entire statement. Show me a source that specifically mention 2018. It is original research to say something that the sources are not saying 2018. 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 18:06, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5977381/
So if you think it is not original research and or the 2018 study is wrong, then we Just cannot agree on talk and so I am fine to take this to further channels. As Don't want to waste my time arguing with someone who seems invested in defending an original research and claiming that proper randomised controlled studies are not permitted on Wikipedia, despite I know that's wrong. 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 18:17, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
For a food article, there need to be mention that Goji berries have high levels of antioxidants, vitamin C and A, as well as iron and fiber. Why is such information forbidden?
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Goji&diff=1068113113
It's not even disputed by anyone that Goji berries have high levels of antioxidants and vitamin C, etc. Removing the information because WebMD is apparently banned for Wikipedia. Is arbitrary and questionable.
I also like to ask for an exception as it is highly unlikely that WebMD will lie about this. No reason at all. Other websites also say the same thing. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/goji-berry#benefits
They are reliable sources that have no reason to lie about the obvious facts that Goji berries have lots of iron, vitamin C and A, etc. And my edit should be included back in. 49.195.2.162 ( talk) 18:25, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
49.195.2.162 ( talk) 01:50, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
And I think you are just confusing medicine with food. A healthy diet isn't formally medicine, yet it still protects against many diseases. Eating enough fiber helps with diabetes as it slows the absorption of sugar. Eating enough anti-inflammatory natural antixoxidants, helps to reduce excess free radicals. Making sure you have enough vitamin C prevents scurvy.
Goji is simply a single holistic tool that allows diabetic people to reach a healthy diet that has properties that help maintain good sugar levels and ease oxidation damage etc. There is a nuance that certain healthy food can help prevent illnesses or worsening conditions that typically occur from unhealthy diets.
Controlled research with good methodology, shows people with macular degeneration and Diabetics who eat goji, also fare better than those who don't. So there's promise that they can play a key role in helping people.
Example is a systematic review which showed Goji Berry (Lycium barbarum) has the potential to be effective in the treatment of diabetes Mellitus.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319200037_Goji_Berry_Lycium_Barbarum_in_the_treatment_of_diabetes_melitus_a_systematic_review 49.186.234.210 ( talk) 05:55, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321007006_Nutritional_evaluation_of_fresh_and_dried_goji_berries_cultivated_in_Italy 49.195.81.81 ( talk) 04:28, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
I did put in a discussions to add in basic nutrition information. So many top sources like Italian scientists and USDA are saying the same thing. I wanted to add them in except I waited over 10 days and still nobody replied. That's stonewalling where you just revert edits and then tell others to wait for consensus. And Not reply back for over a week.
Yet I am correct. Italian in-depth analysis showed the Berries provide significant amounts of dietary fibre and zeaxanthin and can be declared on the label as a potential source of vitamins E and C. I don't believe they would lie.
Secondly USDA doesn't just trust anyone. They likely reviewed the source and judged it as reliable enough to put it in their official database.. I already stated that reasoning on Talk but what I don't approve is being told to wait for discussion to end, yet I waited patiently for over a week just for a reply. That is wrong.
You need to explain and show proof that USDA is irresponsible. I don't believe they would publish data for Goji berries and not check the sources beforehand. They're not that incompetent. Additional Italian scientists also confirms much of what USDA is saying. Are they all lying?
In March/April of 2013, I did a makeover of the nutrition info boxes for as many foods as I could. As I did this, I noticed what appeared to be a repetition of images of vials of extracts/oils. Most of these images were added in 2013 by one user User:Itineranttrader.
User contributions for Iterinanttrader
The first issue I have with these images is that they are pointless. It's virtually the same image of a vial with a slightly different color, but what I found unencylopedic, is that at the time, I was able to ascertain that the user had (and STILL has) at least one website where such vials of extracts and oils were sold. So to me, this is more of a quasi advertisement than it is a valuable addition to any of the articles thusly modified. It has a spammy quality to it.
I know, it took me ten years to post this, but in 2013 I saw that someone has started a discussion on the matter, so I lost interest and moved on.
Somehow this user was able to come along and promote his business in a very slick way. I hope someone with a proper gatekeeping stance will take this up. I'm tempted to just delete the image out of a trial page just to see what the response would be, but that doesn't sound like the best approach.
User:zefr I remember your diligence when it came to people making changes inappropriately. I'm hoping you get to see this and respond in some way.
An example website using the same image, with the same username — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chango369w ( talk • contribs) 15:36, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
49.195.81.81 ( talk) 08:20, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Also I explained that USDA doesn't just trust anyone and they're speculating that USDA is irresponsible.. Obviously USDA doesn't just trust anyone and recognise the source as reliable enough to be published on their database that informs the public. 49.195.81.81 ( talk) 13:07, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Fresh goji berries have 77.4 % moisture, 1.1 % fats, 2.5 % proteins, 15.3 % carbohydrates and 2.9 % fibre. In dried goji berries, 4.4 % fats, 10.2% proteins, 61.3 % carbohydrates and 11.4 % fibre were found. Similar results on dried goji were reported by ENDES et al. 49.195.81.81 ( talk) 13:24, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
I have fully protected the article for 24 hours to stop sustained edit warring on this article. If you cannot come to agreement, seek a third opinion or dispute resolution. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:05, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
per official classification, it is seen that "wolfberry" is for various specis of Lucium, not only goij. It also says that barbarum is called "matrimony vine". Staszek Lem ( talk) 18:19, 26 January 2017 (UTC)